WanderingDave

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I was just arrested for the very first time ever, for a misdemeanor. The state I was arrested in has a special program for first time offenders for this particular crime, whereby if a year's probation goes by with no slip-ups of any kind, there is no trial, plea, or conviction. That is to say, anyone who does a background check on me would see the case listed as 'dismissed'.

After the probation period, I can apply to have the charge itself expunged from all public records too. This is commonly granted (again, assuming no further brushes with the law).

I am just finishing up my application essay now, and was planning on submitting all my primaries (for matriculation in '07) next week. My LORs, work experience, and MCAT are great (32Q), while my GPA is not awful, but definitely pushing the limits of what they like to see (3.2 overall, 3.2 science, 3.3 major). Next week is also my first court appearance.

Given my situation, is it even worth it to invest the money and energy applying to this round of med school apps? Will the lack of a CONVICTION, despite an ARREST AND CHARGE, fly with the adcoms? Or would I be wise to wait until I've been granted a full expungement (gone w/o a trace!) before applying next round? I am fairly certain I'm capable of being a good little boy scout and will be granted both, in due time.

Another option I was considering was shortening my list of 15 schools to something like 5~7 for this round, and then if I'm not accepted, applying to my whole original list after the expungement next year. This way I could actually afford my court fees. :laugh:
 
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littlephiLLy

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if you receive a conditional discharge (ACOD) in NY you will not have a criminal record, however a sealed envelope will remain in your file. In other words, there will be some evidence that an incident occurred. I'm not sure if that helps, but that is what I was told by a lawyer.
 

LizzyM

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If this is not a felony and not an institutional action (trouble with your school) then it need not be reported on the AMCAS.

It might show up in a criminal background check (required for the first time this year in Illinois of all students before matriculation & being required in a few other places, too) but if it is gone by Summer '08 then it might not show up there either although you never know... all sorts of snafus happen.
 

TCIrish03

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I'm guessing he's a "younger" junior busted on an alcohol offense. Weed doesn't usually get off scott free.

Nevertheless, I was in a similar situation with an MIC when I was 19. Did Indiana pre-trial diversion requirements, and the case is "dismissed", charges dropped. This was not listed as institutional action, and I am not even sure it would show up in a background check. Even if it does, they won't know what the exact offense was.

I made it through this year of interviews, and the issue was never brought up. My case was dismissed 5 years ago, but I would apply anyway if I were the OP, and keep my nose clean.

Bluntman said:
I'm guessing possession of some of this:



Any other ideas?
 

TauPathology

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I would play it safe and wait. On one side, its very unlikely that it will come up if you don't have to report it. But if it did, not only would if severely hurt your chances this year, the med schools I imagine would keep a note of it, and you would have to deal with it again if you reapplied. They say it shouldn't affect your standing, but imagine if you were hiring new staff and you had a choice between 10 people with absolutely no record, and one with even a little of a record. :(. Play it safe.
 

hermit

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I am no expert on this. But it would seem unlikely that this would show on any background checks until the matter is finalized. Meaning there probably isn't anything on your record since you haven't been to court yet. Meaning you will probably go through the interview/acceptance process before there is any formal paperwork on the matter. I don't really even see this as an ethics issue. What does the app ask for? Does it ask if you have been convicted of felony/misd? Well - the honest answer to that is 'no'.
 

Pancho Villa

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yeah... the key word in those kinds of questions is "convicted". if it was dismissed, then you were not convicted, so you can answer truthfully by saying "no".
 
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You should also be aware that a large number of secondary applications ask questions about criminal background in a more general way that would require you to report this incident.

For example Yale asks:
"Have you been subjected to disciplinary action by any college or university? Have you been convicted of a criminal offense? Are there disciplinary or criminal charges pending against you? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, please specify the details."

This is not a question specific to Yale, just posted as an example.
 

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On a side note, just to make you feel a little better, it's not the end of the world. One of my closest friends wanted nothing but to be a USAF pilot since he was old enough to know what a plane was. He wound up getting his pilot slot - which are very competitive - his senior year of college. Before graduating, he also got arrested for drunk driving - not the best thing for an aspiring pilot to have on their record. Today he is living his dream as a pilot in the USAF. And not a single day later than had he not been arrested.

Don't sweat it. It will be fine.
 

DrJekyl

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You should not get stressed about this. Just be honest on the applications. AMCAS only asks you to list felony convictions, and you have not been convicted of anything. Most secondaries ask you to list felony and misdemeanor convictions. Again, you have not been convicted of anything. If your charge becomes a conviction, then you will have to inform schools about it. I do not believe having been charged with a misdemeanor and having it dismissed will effect your medical school applications. Schools will not do a backgraound check on you until after you are accepted. Now, if a school asks if you have ever been charged with a crime you need to be honest and explain the circumstances. However, I believe schools are only concerned with convictions.
 

Hardbody

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DrJekyl said:
You should not get stressed about this. Just be honest on the applications. AMCAS only asks you to list felony convictions, and you have not been convicted of anything. Most secondaries ask you to list felony and misdemeanor convictions. Again, you have not been convicted of anything. If your charge becomes a conviction, then you will have to inform schools about it. I do not believe having been charged with a misdemeanor and having it dismissed will effect your medical school applications. Schools will not do a backgraound check on you until after you are accepted. Now, if a school asks if you have ever been charged with a crime you need to be honest and explain the circumstances. However, I believe schools are only concerned with convictions.
The vast majority are, but watch out with some schools. I know in Texas to get licensed they ask about all arrests/citations for EVERY offense you have ever had. In New York it is ILLEGAL to ask about ARRESTS even for a felony! Some schools may ask others will not, for the ones that do I would recommend being honest (you never know, maybe they will look past it).
 
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goodoldalky

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I know many schools require any charges or convictions to be explained UNLESS your record of the event is sealed or you had it expunged, which you appear to be at least a year away from.. it sounds like you are on thin ice if you choose not to include it. I would look at the language on the secondaries themselves - perhaps some schools only ask for convictions. However, if they ask for something that your experience would fall under, and you choose not to include it, they will find out.
 

LizzyM

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Apply broadly and then decline to submit a secondary if the questions would get into your situation (many won't).
 

Hardbody

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LizzyM said:
Apply broadly and then decline to submit a secondary if the questions would get into your situation (many won't).
You never know, maybe if the OP submits it and is honest he will get in. I am not saying that will happen for sure, but you just don't know for sure.

To the OP:

If you have deep pockets submit secondaries that you will have to disclose, be honest and see what happens. If your pockets aren't so deep, just ignore those secondaries. Good luck.
 
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WanderingDave

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:laugh: Wow Bluntman, either your superhero powers are shining through or I'm very good at dropping hints. Yes, I was nailed for possession of under 50 grams for personal use, plus paraphernalia (both misdemeanors), in New Jersey (d'oh!). This state is considerably tougher on marijuana than NY, which doesn't even impose a FINE for a first possession offense! The arrest had no connection with any school, and there'll be no disciplinary action from any place I've taken classes.

I'm applying to schools in MA, NY, and PA. The schools in NY (my state of legal residence) and PA are mostly public. Will any of them care about a RECENT misdemeanor pot charge in NJ during the primary, secondary, or interview stages?

I'm actually far more worried about not being able to get another job as a CNA in NYC, all of which require both a background check and a drug test. Since the arrest I've been clean as a Mormon, so it's not the drug test I'm worried about. But seems to me with most employers that really care about "drug free", a recent pot arrest might make them circular file my job application before the drug test results were even in. At the very least I'll have a lot of explaining to do. :scared:
 

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WanderingDave said:
Another option I was considering was shortening my list of 15 schools to something like 5~7 for this round, and then if I'm not accepted, applying to my whole original list after the expungement next year. This way I could actually afford my court fees. :laugh:
I agree with everyone who told you not to sweat the misdemeanor thing, but I just wanted to throw in my $0.02 to say that this is actually a BAD idea. If you don't get into this (very small) number of schools, you will have to reapply and be considered a reapplicant, which is a negative (I was a reapplicant). Just do it up right the first time you apply. If that means taking some extra time to raise your grades, so be it. Good luck.
 

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WanderingDave said:
Yes, I was nailed for possession of under 50 grams for personal use,
I'm sure that doesn't apply to your situation, and I don't judge, but I find it interesting that in NJ you can be carrying 1-3/4 ounces of pot and it can be considered for personal use? I can't imagine being busted with the equivalent of about 14 eighths and telling the cop that I was planning on hitting blockbuster and ordering a pizza.
 
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WanderingDave

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notdeadyet said:
I'm sure that doesn't apply to your situation, and I don't judge, but I find it interesting that in NJ you can be carrying 1-3/4 ounces of pot and it can be considered for personal use? I can't imagine being busted with the equivalent of about 14 eighths and telling the cop that I was planning on hitting blockbuster and ordering a pizza.
I read this two ways. I bet it's a little of both:
1) A person toting around 1~14 eighths may be a dealer, but if he is, he's likely such a small-time one that The System would much rather spend their resources on bigger fish. After all, if you concentrate on arrestees carrying ounces upon ounces, which are common enough, you also take out the small-time ones without any extra effort.
2) The threshhold for an automatic Intent to Distribute charge is set artificially high so that The System has a safety valve for cutting people a break, if they happen to be extraordinarily cooperative, or (more likely) if they're 'somebody'. :rolleyes:

Here are the schools I'm applying to. Before I even waste my money on a primary app to the place, are any of the following ones that definitely DO ask about arrests or charges, even for misdemeanors? :

* All 4 NY public schools
* Drexel
* Temple
* New York Medical College in Valhalla, NY
* NYU (maybe)
* Albany Medical College
* Tufts
* Columbia (maybe)
* Johns Hopkins
* G.W.
* Yeshiva

Is this something I could ask the schools via an anonymous phone call or e-mail, and expect to get a straight answer on? (I suspect many would hand me the party line, "Well yes, why wouldn't we?" even if in fact they didn't. If they would say anything about their secondary app at all.)

BTW, do you consider 15 schools too few?
 

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WanderingDave said:
:laugh: Wow Bluntman, either your superhero powers are shining through or I'm very good at dropping hints. Yes, I was nailed for possession of under 50 grams for personal use, plus paraphernalia (both misdemeanors), in New Jersey (d'oh!). This state is considerably tougher on marijuana than NY, which doesn't even impose a FINE for a first possession offense! The arrest had no connection with any school, and there'll be no disciplinary action from any place I've taken classes.

I'm applying to schools in MA, NY, and PA. The schools in NY (my state of legal residence) and PA are mostly public. Will any of them care about a RECENT misdemeanor pot charge in NJ during the primary, secondary, or interview stages?

I'm actually far more worried about not being able to get another job as a CNA in NYC, all of which require both a background check and a drug test. Since the arrest I've been clean as a Mormon, so it's not the drug test I'm worried about. But seems to me with most employers that really care about "drug free", a recent pot arrest might make them circular file my job application before the drug test results were even in. At the very least I'll have a lot of explaining to do. :scared:
Aye...that's such a bummer man. I hope everything gets cleared up as ok as possible. For what it's worth, I think I would still continue with the application process this year. Like you said, it's not a conviction yet, so you can truthfully answer "No" to any questions that ask about convictions other than minor traffic violations. And like Lizzy said, since it's not institutional action or a felony, you don't have to report it on the primary AMCAS app. So the only things you have to worry about are secondaries like the Yale example.

On a related note...have you ever seen the documentary Grass? It'll make you hate the ridiculousness of pot laws even more. :mad:
 
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WanderingDave

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OK, I'm going to go through with the application process as planned. Just pray I can land a job now. :luck:

A couple things I wanted to clear up:
I cannot afford a lawyer, and am not sure I want a public defender, or that I'm even poor enough to qualify for one. NJ offers a diversion program for first time offenders, which involves going on probation. I'm going to do it. If I pass a year's worth of random drug tests, which I can easily commute to from NYC, case dismissed. No conviction at any point until I fail to test clean.

Quitting doob will be a boon for me in many ways, because I was heavily abusing it for nigh on 8 years. I drove stoned quite frequently, I'm ashamed to say, and now this is my karma.

I plan on living past 100 and I'm only 28 now, so I've got plenty of time left for chemical fun. It'll be good to get used to not toking BEFORE I start med school, so that after I graduate, I can begin to toke again in a more restrained and responsible manner (with NO TOLERANCE! Yipee!)
 

SitraAchra

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i'm not here to judge or anything but...it seems you're not getting the overall lesson here which is...to not smoke weed?

more power to you if you can get into med skewl, just seems silly to be planning your return to the ganja already.

p.s. calling it "doob" is highly enjoyable. if i took a puff, i'd be a doob noob. HAH.
 

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WanderingDave said:
OK, I'm going to go through with the application process as planned. Just pray I can land a job now. :luck:

A couple things I wanted to clear up:
I cannot afford a lawyer, and am not sure I want a public defender, or that I'm even poor enough to qualify for one. NJ offers a diversion program for first time offenders, which involves going on probation. I'm going to do it. If I pass a year's worth of random drug tests, which I can easily commute to from NYC, case dismissed. No conviction at any point until I fail to test clean.

Quitting doob will be a boon for me in many ways, because I was heavily abusing it for nigh on 8 years. I drove stoned quite frequently, I'm ashamed to say, and now this is my karma.

I plan on living past 100 and I'm only 28 now, so I've got plenty of time left for chemical fun. It'll be good to get used to not toking BEFORE I start med school, so that after I graduate, I can begin to toke again in a more restrained and responsible manner (with NO TOLERANCE! Yipee!)
Hey Dave, got busted for the same thing in NJ (but at college, unfortunately). I too have this expunged from my record, but still have to put it on the AMCAS as an institutional action. It was a mistake, no question; it sucks, but it's in the past and you can't worry about it. There is nothing you can do, and the best thing you can do is to be honest during this time and explain the situation. Since the year isn't up, I don't think that you can get away with not mentioning it because it hasn't been expunged yet. I've heard of people getting kicked out of med school for omitting or lying about certain aspects of their application. I was on probation myself for a year and never got drug tested, btw. Again, just be honest and just talk about how you've learned from it and all that. Put a positive spin on it. Not all med school matriculants are angels; I'm sure that there are more skeletons in people's closets than they let on. The numbers 1 and 2 institutional actions/misdeameanors/etc. are alcohol and marijuana-related, anyway so it isn't like you're the first applicant to have had this difficulty.

A point to make about a public defender: I didn't use a lawyer and paid the customary 800 dollar fine (which includes the fee to expunge it). However, a friend of mine got caught with a DUI and got a public defender. He ended up getting the same punishment as his brother's roommate did, who had gotten the same DUI (in a separate instance) and had hired the best DUI lawyer in the state. Don't knock a public defender; more often then not, they can help because they already know everyone in the courthouse and how things work.

Don't mean to sound like a pro about this or anything haha, because I'm far from it.

Btw, obviously I don't want anyone driving impaired. However, I can't control what people do, and I must say, if they have to drive, then I would rather have people drive stoned than drunk.

Just food for thought.
 

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Does anybody have any opinions on how this compares to underage alcohol posession in the adcom's eyes?
 

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SitraAchra said:
i'm not here to judge or anything but...it seems you're not getting the overall lesson here which is...to not smoke weed?

more power to you if you can get into med skewl, just seems silly to be planning your return to the ganja already.

p.s. calling it "doob" is highly enjoyable. if i took a puff, i'd be a doob noob. HAH.
Let me guess...you never had a sip of alcohol before you turned 21, you don't ever break the speed limit, and you never toilet-pappered a house when you were a kid? Christ.
 

SitraAchra

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Bluntman said:
Let me guess...you never had a sip of alcohol before you turned 21, you don't ever break the speed limit, and you never toilet-pappered a house when you were a kid? Christ.
My first sip of alcohol was when i was 18 and consisted of 5 shots of 151 chased with warm tap water! I'm not a terrible speeder...I just go with traffic...and I only TP'ed a couple houses...not really a menace but I did it a few times.

So when I say "i'm not here to judge" I actually mean it - I'm not using it as a step-ladder up to my platform of moral holiness.

No worries. I can see how it can be interpreted as me looking down on the OP - I just found irony in how he has this scheme of becoming a doc and then getting back into his smoking routine which got him in hot water in the first place. You have to admit that IS kinda humorous. But I don't think anyone that smokes weed on occasion is any worse than me..I just haven't done it...so whateva.
 

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SitraAchra said:
My first sip of alcohol was when i was 18 and consisted of 5 shots of 151 chased with warm tap water! I'm not a terrible speeder...I just go with traffic...and I only TP'ed a couple houses...not really a menace but I did it a few times.

So when I say "i'm not here to judge" I actually mean it - I'm not using it as a step-ladder up to my platform of moral holiness.

No worries. I can see how it can be interpreted as me looking down on the OP - I just found irony in how he has this scheme of becoming a doc and then getting back into his smoking routine which got him in hot water in the first place. You have to admit that IS kinda humorous. But I don't think anyone that smokes weed on occasion is any worse than me..I just haven't done it...so whateva.
At least the OP is being honest about it. I would be willing to bet that the OP has a change of heart once they stop tokin up trees for a while.
 

SitraAchra

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What do you mean "once they stop tokin up trees" - who is they? Or do you mean the OP will have a change of heart once he is clean for awhile?

Regardless, yeah his honesty is refreshing. I still think it's a bad plan but he certainly doesn't have to listen to me. Not trying to mess up the thread with my own opinion but..it exists nonetheless.
 

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you can do a criminal check on yourself, which I recommend. If you see it, the adcoms will surely see it.

BUT, just because you don't see it, does not mean they can't. They may see it (even if you don't) if you were at any point fingerprinited/mug shots taken it may come up even if you don't see it on a personal criminal check.

also of note, even if the record is expunged, the arrest may still follow you. You will need a copy of the signed document stating the record has been expunged to present to future employment offices etc.

I just went through this with a family member (was sitting in the court room this wednesday offering what support I could), so am more familiar with the system than I ever thought I could be.

On that note, the judge was very kind to the family member (who is studying to be a nurse) stating that he was not going to stop her from persuing a career of helping people for a mistake she made in the past (not the same as yours, but I feel the same idea applys). She brought her grades/list of accomplishments/CV etc.

So as for applying to med school, it seems you have decided to go ahead and apply this year. My gut would have been to wait, do something great with the extra year (volunteer abroad), and apply when you are more sure of your status. If you do apply this year, I would disclose.

On a side note, I have to agree with SitraAchra. You need to grow up. This is not the time to think about the next time you will get high, and more realize that there are many more important things to be focused on, like becoming a doctor. It just comes off as really immature. This is comming from a person who feels pot should be legalized.
 
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WanderingDave

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Wow lexy10. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the vibe I get from your post is that anyone without a spotless past is not welcome in healthcare. What with the shortage of healthcare professionals AND the shortage of people who are complete saints, I call a big "O RLY?" on this.

Did you read the whole thread, or just my original post? If you actually read it all (don't reply if you haven't) ...

1) What says you to the blatant fact that while on probation and passing my urine tests, I HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF NOTHING, not even a flippin misdemeanor?! My legal status is the same as a person who has been wrongfully accused. Would you give the same advice to someone who was wrongfully accused?

2) If the question isn't even asked, what on earth do I have to gain by volunteering information about this event willingly? It can ONLY be used to discriminate. If you know the system inside and out and have a well-reasoned argument against the other posters who advise don't ask don't tell, I'd like to hear it.

I have lived abroad for years at a time in 3 countries and traveled in 12 others. I have just spent the past 3 years working part time as a CNA, going to college part time and paying for it out of pocket, and somehow managing to make ends meet without borrowing money from anyone or asking for anyone's help. All of this was with the clear focus of becoming a doctor. I have nothing to prove to anyone when it comes to maturity, and I'll beg you not to lecture or shame me for expressing enjoyment for what makes me truly happy. :mad:
 
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Good luck Dave. I think you'll be fine. I got an MIP (drinking) when I was in high school, pled no contest and got deferred adjudication, and it never came up once.

That could have easily been me or any number of my pre-med/pre-law/pre-nursing/pre-pharm/etc friends getting caught, only in Texas, where one of the entrance requirements for becoming a cop is that you have to be a complete dick. **** happens, but we learn from it. And it gives us perspective.

Oh, and Bluntman (or anyone else for that matter), if you're in the mood for getting angry at completely ridiculous pot laws, there are several excellent documentary videos on pottv.com that you should watch.

/weed talk.
 

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WanderingDave said:
1) What says you to the blatant fact that while on probation and passing my urine tests, I HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF NOTHING, not even a flippin misdemeanor?! My legal status is the same as a person who has been wrongfully accused. Would you give the same advice to someone who was wrongfully accused?

2) If the question isn't even asked, what on earth do I have to gain by volunteering information about this event willingly? It can ONLY be used to discriminate. If you know the system inside and out and have a well-reasoned argument against the other posters who advise don't ask don't tell, I'd like to hear it.
It can and will be used against you. I believe in "innocent until proven guilty", and supposedly this country is supposed to be a country that grants virtually anyone (killers, rapists, and baby rapers excluded) "a second chance." Don't give anymore information, only give what is asked of you.
 

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browniegirl86 said:
Good luck Dave. I think you'll be fine. I got an MIP (drinking) when I was in high school, pled no contest and got deferred adjudication, and it never came up once.

That could have easily been me or any number of my pre-med/pre-law/pre-nursing/pre-pharm/etc friends getting caught, only in Texas, where one of the entrance requirements for becoming a cop is that you have to be a complete dick. **** happens, but we learn from it. And it gives us perspective.

Oh, and Bluntman (or anyone else for that matter), if you're in the mood for getting angry at completely ridiculous pot laws, there are several excellent documentary videos on pottv.com that you should watch.

/weed talk.
So you guys didnt disclose when you received deferred adjudication or some other deal where the charges were ultimately dismissed? I thought that even though you werent technically convicted that you still have to divulge it even if they only ask for convictions. Is that true? What if you had it expunged, how would you guys handle that?
 

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bobbybouche said:
I thought that even though you werent technically convicted that you still have to divulge it. Is that true?
In Texas, YES!(the Texas medical board asks about all arrests/citations, and I am pretty sure all their med schools ask the same)

In New York, NO! (It is actually against the law to be asked this question in NYS)
 

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Hardbody said:
In Texas, YES!(the Texas medical board asks about all arrests/citations, and I am pretty sure all their med schools ask the same)

In New York, NO! (It is actually against the law to be asked this question in NYS)
But if they find out after a background check for matriculation, can they withdraw your acceptance even if they didnt ask on their app for all arrests? Sometimes i wish i was just convicted so at least id know how to answer these damn questions.
 

Hardbody

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bobbybouche said:
But if they find out after a background check for matriculation, can they withdraw your acceptance even if they didnt ask on their app for all arrests? Sometimes i wish i was just convicted so at least id know how to answer these damn questions.
That is a question to ask an attorney, but the short answer would be probably not. You were not dishonest in anyway, nor were you convicted, so on what grounds would the school have? I doubt they would risk a high dollar lawsuit with punitive damages. Don't know the law, but I am willing to bet you have solid legal ground to stand on, and as far as a case for punitive damages.

I can visualize in my head your lawyer at trial, "Robert XXX had a 4.0GPA 45MCAT was accepted to 7 Ivy's, yet Robert picked your school and you withdrew his admissions costing him a year of his life and the salary of a spinal orthopod (lets say to strengthen arguement) to the tune of 700G. Robert was not convicted of a crime, he also had outstanding lor's, can you explain yourself Mr. Dean of admissions?" I doubt the school would want to risk the lawsuit.
 

browniegirl86

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bobbybouche said:
But if they find out after a background check for matriculation, can they withdraw your acceptance even if they didnt ask on their app for all arrests? Sometimes i wish i was just convicted so at least id know how to answer these damn questions.
I don't think so. I read the application very carefully to make sure my MIP didn't fall under that category (obv didn't want to mess up my apps.) Mine was also removed completely from my record once I turned 21, which was a few months before I applied, so I really figured I was ok.
 

nighthawk3

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Hardbody said:
That is a question to ask an attorney, but the short answer would be probably not. You were not dishonest in anyway, nor were you convicted, so on what grounds would the school have? I doubt they would risk a high dollar lawsuit with punitive damages. Don't know the law, but I am willing to bet you have solid legal ground to stand on, and as far as a case for punitive damages.

I can visualize in my head your lawyer at trial, "Robert XXX had a 4.0GPA 45MCAT was accepted to 7 Ivy's, yet Robert picked your school and you withdrew his admissions costing him a year of his life and the salary of a spinal orthopod (lets say to strengthen arguement) to the tune of 700G. Robert was not convicted of a crime, he also had outstanding lor's, can you explain yourself Mr. Dean of admissions?" I doubt the school would want to risk the lawsuit.
You would not be able to recover one cent in "lost wages" because those are at least four years in the future. Who's to say he wouldn't drop out of med school after his second year? No job, no money for lost wages. Additionally, private medical schools can kick you out whenever they want, for whatever reason. Try arguing it in court and see how far you get. Public institutions may be a different story, but if it's because of an unreported crime, you're probably screwed. Finally, who would want to stay at a med school you had to sue to get back into? Going to school is a privilege, not a right, and you don't hold many cards in this type of situation.

As a side note, how do traffic violations (misdemeanors) fit into this? I was cited for speeding last year (87 in a 65) but got it reduced to an "moving vehicle charge" that carries a fine and no points. It was the best I could do considering it happened in a small, rural town with a backward system -- this was a mandatory court appearance even though it was my first offense! Still, I'm sure it will appear on any background check. Will this be a problem?
 

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nighthawk3 said:
You would not be able to recover one cent
Don't mean to bicker with you on this point since I do not hold a JD, but I am pretty sure that you can sue, since you have to give up the opportunity at attending another school. A good laywer would likely have a field day with this case. Contrary to popular belief, students and workers have rights (at least in NY, where I am from). If you kick someone out of school you better have a reasonable excuse, and being charged with something that ended up getting dismissed prior to admission is NOT a good excuse.
 

Hardbody

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nighthawk3 said:
As a side note, how do traffic violations (misdemeanors) fit into this? I was cited for speeding last year (87 in a 65) but got it reduced to an "moving vehicle charge" that carries a fine and no points. It was the best I could do considering it happened in a small, rural town with a backward system -- this was a mandatory court appearance even though it was my first offense! Still, I'm sure it will appear on any background check. Will this be a problem?
YOU ARE DOOMED TO NEVER GAIN ADMISSIONS TO MEDICAL SCHOOL!!!!!!!! YOU MIGHT AS WELL APPLY FOR A JOB AS A BUTCHER AND KISS YOUR FINGERS GOOD BYE!!!!!!!!

J/K :smuggrin:
 

Hardbody

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nighthawk3 said:
You would not be able to recover one centQUOTE]

BTW, something like that would fall under punitive damages, and in many cases there is no cap or a high cap on what can be awarded. I doubt a school would want to risk even a settlement.
 

sino408

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I agree with everything you've said except the part where you implied that he shouldn't worry about "pending" charges.

DrJekyl said:
You should not get stressed about this. Just be honest on the applications. AMCAS only asks you to list felony convictions, and you have not been convicted of anything. Most secondaries ask you to list felony and misdemeanor convictions. Again, you have not been convicted of anything. If your charge becomes a conviction, then you will have to inform schools about it. I do not believe having been charged with a misdemeanor and having it dismissed will effect your medical school applications. Schools will not do a backgraound check on you until after you are accepted. Now, if a school asks if you have ever been charged with a crime you need to be honest and explain the circumstances. However, I believe schools are only concerned with convictions.
 

Hardbody

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nighthawk3 said:
Additionally, private medical schools can kick you out whenever they want, for whatever reason.
Do you mean to tell me a private school can kick a student out because they are black?
 

ThatKidMike

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Do you mean to tell me a private school can kick a student out because they are black?
If they wanted, if asked they'd just say your were disruptive or something, but it's true private schools can drop you for basically no reason, they're not as vulnerable as public schools, because if you get mad at SUNY Stony Brooks Med school throws you out for no reason, you could sue SSB&STate of New York for like 3Million(lost tuition,future unemployment, mental damage done to you, etc.) and if you win the case you would probably get like a million out of 3, but if you sued for 1 millions you'd only get a few hundred thousand.

/end toke
 

nighthawk3

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Hardbody said:
Do you mean to tell me a private school can kick a student out because they are black?
Do you have to post a new reply for every sentence I write? Here are the answers to your questions: you absolutely would not be able to receive any award for potential, future lost wages because there is no guarantee those wages exist. Can you imagine if this went on? You'd get 10 year olds injured in their backyards suing the neighbors' kids who hurt them because now they can't be a neurosurgeon in 25 years. Give me a break. No job at time of injury, no lost wages. The best you could ever hope to recover would be the tuition you paid for that one year. You, like a lot of Americans, have a very distorted sense of the legal system. You can sue for whatever you want, but very rarely are you awarded something you don't truly deserve. Even the McDonald's coffee lady, who seems to be everyone's favorite example of unreasonable jury awards, didn't get enough to cover all of her medical bills.

Second, a private institution cannot kick you out for being black, but you'd have to prove that's why they kicked you out. I don't think many schools are going to say "we're kicking you out because you're black." Again, you can try, but the idea that proof is required to win a case is still in practice. Med school X will say they kicked you out for [insert random, but barely legit reason here], and it's up to you to prove that's not why they did it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, and I'm not saying that students and workers don't have rights, but in most cases, they still lose because there's no blood on anyone's hands. The bottom line is, if you're kicked out of a med school, no matter what the reason, you'll need to fight an uphill battle if you want to get back in.
 

lexy10

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WanderingDave said:
Wow lexy10. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the vibe I get from your post is that anyone without a spotless past is not welcome in healthcare. What with the shortage of healthcare professionals AND the shortage of people who are complete saints, I call a big "O RLY?" on this.

Did you read the whole thread, or just my original post? If you actually read it all (don't reply if you haven't) ...

1) What says you to the blatant fact that while on probation and passing my urine tests, I HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF NOTHING, not even a flippin misdemeanor?! My legal status is the same as a person who has been wrongfully accused. Would you give the same advice to someone who was wrongfully accused?

2) If the question isn't even asked, what on earth do I have to gain by volunteering information about this event willingly? It can ONLY be used to discriminate. If you know the system inside and out and have a well-reasoned argument against the other posters who advise don't ask don't tell, I'd like to hear it.

I have lived abroad for years at a time in 3 countries and traveled in 12 others. I have just spent the past 3 years working part time as a CNA, going to college part time and paying for it out of pocket, and somehow managing to make ends meet without borrowing money from anyone or asking for anyone's help. All of this was with the clear focus of becoming a doctor. I have nothing to prove to anyone when it comes to maturity, and I'll beg you not to lecture or shame me for expressing enjoyment for what makes me truly happy. :mad:
Wow, I was just trying to tell you about what had just happened to someone dear to me. Simply protect yourself and do a criminal check on yourself. I absolutly do not feel this should come between you and becoming a doctor.

And I asked if you were fingerprinted, because even without a conviction this will show up on a criminal check.

I was trying to help, not lecture. But I did find a comment of yours a little immature. I hear where you are coming from, I too paid for my college out of pocket and have lived in several countries, but unfortunatly, this doesn't exempt you if you don't disclose and it shows up on your record.

I really was just trying to help. Sorry if I offened you. Truly, I am.
 

lexy10

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And of course by "disclose", I mean where it is directly asked if you have been arrested, not convicted, because you haven't been convicted. I totally agree that the information doesn't need to be shared where it isn't asked.

I wish you the best of luck. I really do.
 
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