TheMantaRay

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I'll be attending my local state school this coming fall. I have zero ambition to get a competitive residency - I don't really want to be a surgeon or a dermatologist. As long as I can do perhaps a touch more than the bare minimum to get through medical school and then get a residency, I'll be happy.

I would have no problem with an internal medicine or pediatrics residency. Or family practice.

I have a wife, children, and a mortgage. I don't want to get into ridiculous amounts of debt like I did with my prior career.

A couple of questions, based on the above:

1: Assuming that I have no desire to be in the top 50% of the class (or the top 75% even), and assuming I could pick up about 10 to 15 hours of well-paid work a week (and bring in a grand or two a month), would surviving the first couple of years of medical school be realistic? By surviving, I mean scraping through each test and not having to repeat anything.

2: Assume my grades are in the bottom 25% of the class. What residency options are there? Is it limited to family practice, or would I have a few more options than that? I would stay with the same hospital for residency - do homegrown grads get any preferential treatment in getting residencies?

Give it to me straight, guys and girls. I need the real scoop from regular students with regular grades and regular ambition.
 

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I'll be attending my local state school this coming fall. I have zero ambition to get a competitive residency - I don't really want to be a surgeon or a dermatologist. As long as I can do perhaps a touch more than the bare minimum to get through medical school and then get a residency, I'll be happy.

I would have no problem with an internal medicine or pediatrics residency. Or family practice.

I have a wife, children, and a mortgage. I don't want to get into ridiculous amounts of debt like I did with my prior career.

A couple of questions, based on the above:

1: Assuming that I have no desire to be in the top 50% of the class (or the top 75% even), and assuming I could pick up about 10 to 15 hours of well-paid work a week (and bring in a grand or two a month), would surviving the first couple of years of medical school be realistic? By surviving, I mean scraping through each test and not having to repeat anything.

2: Assume my grades are in the bottom 25% of the class. What residency options are there? Is it limited to family practice, or would I have a few more options than that? I would stay with the same hospital for residency - do homegrown grads get any preferential treatment in getting residencies?

Give it to me straight, guys and girls. I need the real scoop from regular students with regular grades and regular ambition.
Wait. You haven't even STARTED med school yet, and you've already decided to settle for mediocrity?

You want to know what a nightmare scenario for me would be? Moseying along through the first 2 years of med school, not really trying, and figuring, "Eh. I have no real ambition to be a top-notch dermatologist or anything. I'll just do the amount needed to scrape by" - and then hitting 3rd year rotations, falling in love with ortho or ENT, and realizing that my dream career was totally out of reach, due to my lack of effort during MS1 and MS2.

Don't you want your wife and kid to be proud of you? And don't you think that finding a career that you LOVE (and not just a specialty that you "settled for") would make them proud?

And yes, bringing in a "grand or two" a month is REALLY going to keep you from accumulating massive amounts of debt. Yeah. Sure. [/sarcasm]
 

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I'm a fairly ambitious medical student, and I have noticed that people come into medical school with one set of expectations, but they often find themselves headed in a different direction after the clinical years. I have one acquaintance who came into medical school wanting to do primary care, and fell head over heels for orthopedic surgery during her third year. The path to ortho was an uphill climb, but she made it. I have another friend who had the same experience with ENT, but without the happy ending. She is now training in her second choice specialty and definitely less than thrilled about it.

I'm not saying you have to be in the top of your class or anything, but aiming to do the bare minimum to pass is risky. There's always the possibility that you will miss the bare minimum, or that "life" will happen and you'll find yourself without a cushion and failing.
 
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I'll be attending my local state school this coming fall. I have zero ambition to get a competitive residency - I don't really want to be a surgeon or a dermatologist. As long as I can do perhaps a touch more than the bare minimum to get through medical school and then get a residency, I'll be happy.

I would have no problem with an internal medicine or pediatrics residency. Or family practice.

I have a wife, children, and a mortgage. I don't want to get into ridiculous amounts of debt like I did with my prior career.

A couple of questions, based on the above:

1: Assuming that I have no desire to be in the top 50% of the class (or the top 75% even), and assuming I could pick up about 10 to 15 hours of well-paid work a week (and bring in a grand or two a month), would surviving the first couple of years of medical school be realistic? By surviving, I mean scraping through each test and not having to repeat anything.

2: Assume my grades are in the bottom 25% of the class. What residency options are there? Is it limited to family practice, or would I have a few more options than that? I would stay with the same hospital for residency - do homegrown grads get any preferential treatment in getting residencies?

Give it to me straight, guys and girls. I need the real scoop from regular students with regular grades and regular ambition.
Well it really depends on how long you have been out of school and how strong your science base is. If you have a strong science background, a lot of your first year will be review (warp speed). Personally I think it is pretty difficult to not be able to pass (most) tests as long as you have at least read through the notes once. But then again, I am a first year. I hear second year is a different animal. Class can be a big waste of time depending on how you learn, so you might be able to save some time there.

Unfortunately unless you have wealthy folks or a sugamomma/daddy, it seems pretty rare to go through med school with minimal debt. I have a guy in my class that is in your shoes, except at a private school. He too has a mortgage (in his home state) plus rent and a large family. He has no choice besides taking out loans.

Do some searches on SDN. There are volumes of posts about "what are my chances of getting into this residency etc."

As far as the home court advantage goes, if word gets around that you are not "ambitious" some PD's might think that equates to laziness, no desire to learn, etc- probably not qualities that would give you a leg up at your home institution.

Just my 0.02
 
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And yes, bringing in a "grand or two" a month is REALLY going to keep you from accumulating massive amounts of debt. Yeah. Sure. [/sarcasm]

Seriously, we can TA in Anatomy & Physical Diagnosis lab and get paid-which might rival those figures. And when its all said and done its just a drop in the bucket. :laugh:
 

TheMantaRay

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Interesting responses. Thanks.

It's not that I'm lazy as such. I've seen and experienced first hand the misery that graduating with $100K in student debt (many years ago, when 100K in student debt was a lot), and I just don't want to do that again. Taking on $250K in debt at my age? Madness. If I set my mind to it, I could very easily earn $30,000 or $40,000 annually working part time in my current (and soon to be prior) career, but obviously this would jeopardize the quality of my grades.

I'll borrow whatever I need, obviously. But if I could feasibly get through the first couple of years in reasonable financial shape, I'd prefer to.

Just running through some options and I appreciate the insight you guys have.
 

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Another thought.... a lot of what is learned in the first two years really is important to know. Granted, not every detail is necessary, but I'm pretty sure the residents/attendings I'll work under next year expect me to have a good concept of pharm, physio, path, micro, etc. There really is a lot of material to cover in the first two years, and at this point in time, although I did work hard during my first two years, I feel like I've forgotten most of it. I have to figure out how to pass (and do decently on) Step I - and I tried. How much more difficult will it be for someone who scrapes by? Oh, and I'm somewhere in the top 30% of my class. I think it will be very difficult for those in my class who learned LESS than me in the first two years to perform decently on Step I or during clinical rotations.

Also - extend it further - our education is important to us when we are out in practice! Perhaps a lot of it is learnt in residency, but I imagine being behind in four years of med school will make residency even more difficult - potentially leading to not knowing what we need to know when it is really important.

Maybe I'm alone in feeling a bit overwhelmed at the thought of actually applying the knowledge I've learned during this first two years. I've forgotten so many important things... its hard for me to imagine being out there and actually being a good doctor.
I'm regretting that I didn't try HARDER during my first two years. Perhaps if I had, this next two months of my life would be easier. (preparing for Step I)
 

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If you are sure you want one of those specialties, you might check to see if your state has a program for primary care scholarships or (if you are interested) rural scholarships. My state has both, as do many states in my region.
 

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At my school, we take Step I early so the second years (technically 3rd years now) have already taken it and are now it orientation for clinicals. I'll just relay what one of them told me today. We get 6 weeks off to study and she said "Studying for Step I is basically just to comfort our minds because most med students are at least to some extent Type A personalities and we feel like we need to DO something. It's only good to bring concepts back up to the forefront of your mind. The amount of knowledge is so vast that either you know it, or you don't. I could have spent that 6 weeks on the beach and probably ended up with the same score. Learning concepts is out of the question. It's just too much." Now I realize that this is just about a week post test, so she's probably still a little burnt out from studying, but still. Basically she was saying "Learn it now, 'cause you won't have time to learn it later." "Just scraping by" may bite you in the a$$ later.
 

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I'll be attending my local state school this coming fall. I have zero ambition to get a competitive residency - I don't really want to be a surgeon or a dermatologist. As long as I can do perhaps a touch more than the bare minimum to get through medical school and then get a residency, I'll be happy.

I would have no problem with an internal medicine or pediatrics residency. Or family practice.

I have a wife, children, and a mortgage. I don't want to get into ridiculous amounts of debt like I did with my prior career.

A couple of questions, based on the above:

1: Assuming that I have no desire to be in the top 50% of the class (or the top 75% even), and assuming I could pick up about 10 to 15 hours of well-paid work a week (and bring in a grand or two a month), would surviving the first couple of years of medical school be realistic? By surviving, I mean scraping through each test and not having to repeat anything.

2: Assume my grades are in the bottom 25% of the class. What residency options are there? Is it limited to family practice, or would I have a few more options than that? I would stay with the same hospital for residency - do homegrown grads get any preferential treatment in getting residencies?

Give it to me straight, guys and girls. I need the real scoop from regular students with regular grades and regular ambition.
Wait. You haven't even STARTED med school yet, and you've already decided to settle for mediocrity?

You want to know what a nightmare scenario for me would be? Moseying along through the first 2 years of med school, not really trying, and figuring, "Eh. I have no real ambition to be a top-notch dermatologist or anything. I'll just do the amount needed to scrape by" - and then hitting 3rd year rotations, falling in love with ortho or ENT, and realizing that my dream career was totally out of reach, due to my lack of effort during MS1 and MS2.

Don't you want your wife and kid to be proud of you? And don't you think that finding a career that you LOVE (and not just a specialty that you "settled for") would make them proud?

And yes, bringing in a "grand or two" a month is REALLY going to keep you from accumulating massive amounts of debt. Yeah. Sure. [/sarcasm]
Exactly. Geez. You don't need to do well in order to get into ortho, but as smq123 said, what if you suddenly decide you like those more than FP, IM, or peds.

It seems as though people should try to do the best that they can in med school in order to learn as much as possible and actually be effective doctors. It's actually nice when doctors of 1 particular specialty (eg. ortho, anesthesia, rads) know general medicine, and they probably know stuff like that by having learned it in med school. Granted, they may not know it as well as their colleagues in IM, but they do know basically what's going on.

This is a pet peeve of mine: people who just want to coast, not work and just pass. I have no problem with people just passing who are actually putting effort into their work, or maybe something happened in their that made taking a test more difficult. However, I was always taught to do the best that I could.

Btw... why'd you start basically 2 very similar threads?
 

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At my school, we take Step I early so the second years (technically 3rd years now) have already taken it and are now it orientation for clinicals. I'll just relay what one of them told me today. We get 6 weeks off to study and she said "Studying for Step I is basically just to comfort our minds because most med students are at least to some extent Type A personalities and we feel like we need to DO something. It's only good to bring concepts back up to the forefront of your mind. The amount of knowledge is so vast that either you know it, or you don't. I could have spent that 6 weeks on the beach and probably ended up with the same score. Learning concepts is out of the question. It's just too much." Now I realize that this is just about a week post test, so she's probably still a little burnt out from studying, but still. Basically she was saying "Learn it now, 'cause you won't have time to learn it later." "Just scraping by" may bite you in the a$$ later.
Though I would argue that the six weeks given is actually useful for the Step 1, your friend has the same idea that's been reverberating on the forums about the STEP. Just doing enough to pass your professor's test may not save you for the standardized tests; when I had to review for the shelf exams for each of the basic science subjects, there was so much crap on there that if I hadn't had learned the concepts before, there was no way for me to learn it during the 1-2 days I had to review for it.

You'll also use some of that info you learn on the wards. Earlier I was reading through the clinical rotations section and some M3 was complaining about how the attendings/residents got on his case for not knowing the basic mechanism of how a beta-blocker works. He honestly believed that he wasn't responsible for knowing the physiology of how one worked "because he hadn't learned it".
 

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This is a pet peeve of mine: people who just want to coast, not work and just pass. I have no problem with people just passing who are actually putting effort into their work, or maybe something happened in their that made taking a test more difficult. However, I was always taught to do the best that I could.
I agree with your sentiment, but my background isn't exactly that of a typical footloose and fancy-free medical student with no excuse for not studying.

I have a family with children. That, for those who have no family obligations, is a huge part of my life. I can't get up at six and go to the library for three hours before class. I get up at six to get the kids ready for school. I can't get to the library in the afternoon for a few hours. I have to pick kids up from school, supervise homework, after-school activities, food, etc. The only time I really get to study is a couple of hours (max.) per evening.

It's not a case of not wanting to do my best. It's a case of recognizing that my other, more important commitments outside medical school don't leave too much time for study. Nearer exam time, sure, I can scrape more time. But throughout the semester, it's kind of difficult.

That's where I'm coming from. Not from the viewpoint of a lazy person, but from the viewpoint of someone who realizes med school is a ton of work, and that I'll likely be on the lower end of the grade spectrum.

I see where you're coming from though, and lazy people who want to do the bare minimum annoy me too. But for the typical nontrad with a family, there are more important things to life than acing med school at all costs. Just trying to get a feel for what I can expect if I end up near the bottom. I hope I don't, but it's better to be prepared rather than unrealistic.
 

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I agree with your sentiment, but my background isn't exactly that of a typical footloose and fancy-free medical student with no excuse for not studying.

I have a family with children. That, for those who have no family obligations, is a huge part of my life. I can't get up at six and go to the library for three hours before class. I get up at six to get the kids ready for school. I can't get to the library in the afternoon for a few hours. I have to pick kids up from school, supervise homework, after-school activities, food, etc. The only time I really get to study is a couple of hours (max.) per evening.

It's not a case of not wanting to do my best. It's a case of recognizing that my other, more important commitments outside medical school don't leave too much time for study. Nearer exam time, sure, I can scrape more time. But throughout the semester, it's kind of difficult.

That's where I'm coming from. Not from the viewpoint of a lazy person, but from the viewpoint of someone who realizes med school is a ton of work, and that I'll likely be on the lower end of the grade spectrum.

I see where you're coming from though, and lazy people who want to do the bare minimum annoy me too. But for the typical nontrad with a family, there are more important things to life than acing med school at all costs. Just trying to get a feel for what I can expect if I end up near the bottom. I hope I don't, but it's better to be prepared rather than unrealistic.
I have a friend in my class with 5 kids. He's planning on going into anesthesia. He also spends time with his kids, but he sets aside time to study.

Edit: I don't think he went to med school expecting to be the best, but he sure didn't expect to be one of the "bottom 25%."
 
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TheMantaRay

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I have a friend in my class with 5 kids. He's planning on going into anesthesia. He also spends time with his kids, but he sets aside time to study.

Edit: I don't think he went to med school expecting to be the best, but he sure didn't expect to be one of the "bottom 25%."
Wow. That kind of puts things into perspective a little. 5 kids...

I guess the only thing to do is jump on into the pool and see what works and what doesn't.

Thanks for the benefit of your experience, people. Much appreciated.
 

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I have a family with children. That, for those who have no family obligations, is a huge part of my life. I can't get up at six and go to the library for three hours before class. I get up at six to get the kids ready for school. I can't get to the library in the afternoon for a few hours. I have to pick kids up from school, supervise homework, after-school activities, food, etc. The only time I really get to study is a couple of hours (max.) per evening.
If this is really your situation AND you want to find time to work 10-15 hours a week, I think your gonna find it difficult to pass. I think your gonna need to get some more support in order to make med school work for you.

My situation.... I get up at 7:00, take my kids to daycare, study till 5:15, (with some time for breaks, although maybe an hour or two at total tops) I pick up my kids at daycare, feed them, play with them, put them to bed, and either relax or study for a few hours before I go to bed. I study nearly all day on Saturday and study like crazy all weekend right before my exams. I ALWAYS feel like I'm going to fail my exam and somehow I manage to pull a B the majority of the time. As mentioned before, I'm starting to get concerned about step I - theres a good chance that I don't remember enough to do well. I'm guessing I'll pass it, and I'm not really needing a SUPER high score, though I'd like to be somewhere around 230.... I'm not feeling particularly confident about that at the moment....

Now maybe your a real quick study and can manage to work 10-15 hours of work a week in addition to caring for your family and still manage to pass your classes. I don't think I'd plan on doing it that way in advance though....

Also - your not going to be able to pull that kind of schedule during third year and residency...
 

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I agree with your sentiment, but my background isn't exactly that of a typical footloose and fancy-free medical student with no excuse for not studying.

I have a family with children. That, for those who have no family obligations, is a huge part of my life. I can't get up at six and go to the library for three hours before class. I get up at six to get the kids ready for school. I can't get to the library in the afternoon for a few hours. I have to pick kids up from school, supervise homework, after-school activities, food, etc. The only time I really get to study is a couple of hours (max.) per evening.

It's not a case of not wanting to do my best. It's a case of recognizing that my other, more important commitments outside medical school don't leave too much time for study. Nearer exam time, sure, I can scrape more time. But throughout the semester, it's kind of difficult.

That's where I'm coming from. Not from the viewpoint of a lazy person, but from the viewpoint of someone who realizes med school is a ton of work, and that I'll likely be on the lower end of the grade spectrum.

I see where you're coming from though, and lazy people who want to do the bare minimum annoy me too. But for the typical nontrad with a family, there are more important things to life than acing med school at all costs. Just trying to get a feel for what I can expect if I end up near the bottom. I hope I don't, but it's better to be prepared rather than unrealistic.
For what it's worth, there are some students in my class that have kids and they're managing pretty well. They seem to be in the middle of the pack, so you don't have to automatically resign yourself to the lower quartile of the class. Like you said, wade the water first, then figure out if that's good for you.
 

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I really understand what you're saying...I don't want to go into surgery either, a modest peds or fm private practice would make me very happy. My family and sanity has to come first, and if that means getting a B instead of an A, so be it.

But medicine isn't really the kind of major where you can just aim for the minimum grade. You can't leave 30% of the exams blank. Everything is important, everything needs to be profusely understood to begin mastering the next concept. And ****ty performance WILL bite you in the butt later.
 

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Wait. You haven't even STARTED med school yet, and you've already decided to settle for mediocrity?

You want to know what a nightmare scenario for me would be? Moseying along through the first 2 years of med school, not really trying, and figuring, "Eh. I have no real ambition to be a top-notch dermatologist or anything. I'll just do the amount needed to scrape by" - and then hitting 3rd year rotations, falling in love with ortho or ENT, and realizing that my dream career was totally out of reach, due to my lack of effort during MS1 and MS2.

Don't you want your wife and kid to be proud of you? And don't you think that finding a career that you LOVE (and not just a specialty that you "settled for") would make them proud?

And yes, bringing in a "grand or two" a month is REALLY going to keep you from accumulating massive amounts of debt. Yeah. Sure. [/sarcasm]
Great comment!
 

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Eh. Many of these comments are made without the wisdom that comes with being a parent.

"Lifestyle", as it is so ubiquitously referred to, is really all about relegating your career to the importance level you assign it. Many who don't already have children are perfectly willing to say that their career will be equal to or perhaps more important than family. Some who have children already also agree with this sentiment. But I read that the OP has his priorities straight already and recognizes that medicine is a career. Often the more competitive residencies (with a few exceptions) are 'life-eaters', in that a neurosurgeon or a cardiologist works incredibly long hours. I won't name the exceptions, as everyone knows about them, and it's why they are the most competitive.

Whether you can do well or not on a few hours of studying per day is up in the air at the moment. However, with your priorities straight, you won't waste your studying time. By studying efficiently you will be able to shave hours off the time you need to master material. I put in about 6-8 hours per day (including lectures) and I'm doing very well. I hope you have the same experience.

That said, during 3rd and (somewhat) 4th year, your time will not belong to you. You will be expected to be at the hospital or clinic for hours and hours and squeeze your studying in between. Still, it's only a short time in the long run and some rotations are easier in terms of hours worked than others. Residency is different (referring to lilnoelle) since you are paid during residency and I'm sure the OP would drop his part-time job when that started.
 

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Residency is different (referring to lilnoelle) since you are paid during residency and I'm sure the OP would drop his part-time job when that started.
I was talking about bringing the kids into school in the morning and picking them up afterward - its unlikely he'll be able to do that during residency.
 

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"I don't want to get into ridiculous amounts of debt like I did with my prior career."

In the usual case, a good starting assumption is that you cannot work a reasonable amount of hours per week (support a family) and pass. I'm not talking about being in the top 10%; I'm talking about passing (being allowed to proceed). This is a lot of work and you really can get the boot. Medical school is not designed to give you much free time or to allow time to work a job to pay for med school and living. If it turns out that you have enough free time to work a job that brings in a useful income, then that's great (and probably very rare). You need to have savings or be prepared to go into debt. I would not get creative about this. Work the plan; it sounds like you know the drill from your previous career. It is what it is and you can make it if you stick to the program.:luck:
 

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In the usual case, a good starting assumption is that you cannot work a reasonable amount of hours per week (support a family) and pass.
That's where I'm not entirely convinced yet.

My prior career required post-grad education for a number of years that was supposedly so academically rigorous that we weren't permitted to work. Turns out that what I call rigorous and what a 22 year old college grad with no real experience of life outside the classroom calls rigorous are two totally different things. I regret not working during my prior post-grad education (and it wasn't a masters or anything like that) and coming out with far less debt. I just found that there was plenty of free time and that the material didn't actually take that long to get a grip of, despite everyone telling me beforehand that I'll be studying until midnight and tearing my hair out from the stress and the volume and the difficulty of the material. I want to try and make sure I'm getting the real deal in terms of information from similarly-situated med students.

I know med school is lots to cover in terms of academics, but anything seems difficult and intense after coming straight out of undergrad - yes, even for hardcore dedicated students. Working 40 hours a week as a secretary is hard work compared to most undergrad programs. Undergrad is kind of easy and not demanding on time, even when shooting for a 4.0.

For those who have worked successfully in professional, stressful careers with typical 50-80 hour weeks for a number of years prior to med school, how did med school compare in terms of a time commitment?
 

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That's where I'm not entirely convinced yet.

My prior career required post-grad education for a number of years that was supposedly so academically rigorous that we weren't permitted to work. Turns out that what I call rigorous and what a 22 year old college grad with no real experience of life outside the classroom calls rigorous are two totally different things. I regret not working during my prior post-grad education (and it wasn't a masters or anything like that) and coming out with far less debt. I just found that there was plenty of free time and that the material didn't actually take that long to get a grip of, despite everyone telling me beforehand that I'll be studying until midnight and tearing my hair out from the stress and the volume and the difficulty of the material. I want to try and make sure I'm getting the real deal in terms of information from similarly-situated med students.

I know med school is lots to cover in terms of academics, but anything seems difficult and intense after coming straight out of undergrad - yes, even for hardcore dedicated students. Working 40 hours a week as a secretary is hard work compared to most undergrad programs. Undergrad is kind of easy and not demanding on time, even when shooting for a 4.0.

For those who have worked successfully in professional, stressful careers with typical 50-80 hour weeks for a number of years prior to med school, how did med school compare in terms of a time commitment?
Medical school is really quite unlike most post-graduate programs. Most post-graduate programs tend to focus on a more narrow set of information, often quite complex. Also, most post-graduate programs don't fail you if you are not memorizing tons of information; as long as you do the core things well, you'll succeed. Not so in medical school; extent of knowledge is very important. In medical school, you learn a huge number of details, many of them a simplified approximation of what is going on. It would be more like learning a very specific dialect of foreign language (the kind of Swahili they speak in a certain town, for example) with a focus on extent of written vocabulary, say. It's not just about hard work. You actually have to be able to faithfully recall and use large volumes of often disjointed (but usually relevant) highly specific science and medical details (drug names, relative positions of certain axons in the spinal cord, the common symptoms and pathologies associated tissue structure, the histology of a certain tissue).

Also, you must be able to do well compared to people who are not working much outside of school (some people work a few hours here and there). Medical students really are quite talented. It would be tough to argue that you are 2x more efficient than your class. It's not like the group of people you see at a successful business, for example, where everyone has a certain skill but no one must be able to do everything that anyone in the company does (accountants do their thing, lawyers do their thing ... med school would be more like the lawyers would also need to know the accounting, A/C maintenance, engineering, marketing, etc. etc.). Medical students are quite efficient and hardworking as a rule, down to the man or woman. There really isn't any deadwood. Medical schools have a lot of people to choose from and they pick good students. A student might not be very mature and still do better than you on a test. For a neuro test, I might need to recall about 6500 facts (easy and hard snippets of information), of which they will sample maybe 300 in some way on the exam either through multiple choice, essay questions, drawings, etc. If you only study and master 4000 of those facts, you take a huge chance that they will test mostly from the 2500 you barely know (I hate it when they pull the test mostly from a small section of the course).

If you can learn a huge vocabularly of Russian or Chinese effortlessly (and medical details are also easy for you), then you might be ok. You really do need to learn a lot and much of it is detailed knowledge that is selected to spread out the scores on exams. You may think you know the material well, but if you are not reasonably close to where your peers are in performance, you will fail. Don't get me wrong; it can be done. However, you don't want to give yourself a big disadvantage if you can help it. Think of the best students in your classes in your former life ... those will be the students in your school. If you are consistently studying half as much as 90% your class, you are at a severe disadvantage. It's not just about doing well and learning the material. It's about doing well in comparison with a talented group of people who are generally working quite hard and are focused on the material. It's a bit like running a long-distance race. You can't start long after the gun has gone off and expect to wind up in the pack near the finish line.

Do not think that the information you need to know will presented ready for you to memorize and regurgitate. It's quite common for material to be presented one way and then asked quite differently on the exam. Thus, general familiarity is not what they looking for. You really need to have a good command of the entire extent of the subject and be able to apply it in sketches, essays, MCQs, etc.

Finally, let me point out once again that this can be done. Most people make it through because they are committed to doing what it takes when it really comes down to it, even if that means taking on debt, spending a lot of time studing, and sacrificing other opportunities.
 
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That's where I'm not entirely convinced yet.

My prior career required post-grad education for a number of years that was supposedly so academically rigorous that we weren't permitted to work. Turns out that what I call rigorous and what a 22 year old college grad with no real experience of life outside the classroom calls rigorous are two totally different things. I regret not working during my prior post-grad education (and it wasn't a masters or anything like that) and coming out with far less debt. I just found that there was plenty of free time and that the material didn't actually take that long to get a grip of, despite everyone telling me beforehand that I'll be studying until midnight and tearing my hair out from the stress and the volume and the difficulty of the material. I want to try and make sure I'm getting the real deal in terms of information from similarly-situated med students.

I know med school is lots to cover in terms of academics, but anything seems difficult and intense after coming straight out of undergrad - yes, even for hardcore dedicated students. Working 40 hours a week as a secretary is hard work compared to most undergrad programs. Undergrad is kind of easy and not demanding on time, even when shooting for a 4.0.

For those who have worked successfully in professional, stressful careers with typical 50-80 hour weeks for a number of years prior to med school, how did med school compare in terms of a time commitment?
I came from graduate school and teaching while performing more than 60 hours per week teaching medical students and performing research in physiology. I promise you that I didn't have much time for laundry, meal prep or even rudimentary housekeeping during the first two years of medical school. The volume is what you have to master in addition to content in medical school. To decide upfront that you are going to "settle" for a less-competitive residency so that you can work a part-time job is a little naive in this process.

My experiences with medical students who attempt to work part-time (for whatever reason) is NOT that they end up at the bottom of their class but out the door. While your reasons for wanting to contribute to the support or your family are noble, the reality is that the best support will be to borrow what you need to cover any extra expenses and needs up front rather than to assume that you will devote less time to your medical studies so that you can work.

The number one reason that people fail out of medical school is not that they don't have the intellect to study medicine (far from in) but that something (family obligations, illness, personal problems) interfere with the time that they need to master their coursework. If you have financial problems up front, then you need to plot a strategy to solve them up front.

As for you only having a couple of hours each day to study, you need to find a way to increase that time. For example, we needed about 10 hours outside of lab time to complete assigned dissections in Gross Anatomy. Even after completing those dissections, we had to study the dissections. My guess is that your Gross Anatomy lab partners are not going to be too happy with you if you say, "Sorry folks, but I have to get home to job, my wife and children so you have to do my part of the dissection". That was one class.

We had a very diverse class in terms of ages, races and marital status but one of the great things that happened is that we all pulled together for the class as a whole. When one of our classmates went on bed rest for a complicated pregnancy, we made sure that her work was covered because we knew that she would do the same for us. When one of our classmates had a babysitting problem, we watched the children so that he could study in the Gross lab. If you remove yourself from the class by attempting to work, you are likely setting yourself up for failure both in professionalism and in academics.

Medical school is a very different process from anything that you have encountered out there either at a undergraduate or graduate level. To believe otherwise is not using sound judgment.
 

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Thanks for the added information.

It's all well and good to let me know that working during medical school is a very bad idea, but unless there's a lender out there who is willing to lend me money for paying the mortgage during medical school, working won't be a luxury or a means of reducing debt - it'll be a necessity.

If it was just me and the spouse, I would have no trouble selling the house, moving into a rented apartment, and sucking it up for four years.

But there's kids involved, and while many med students may be older and even married, very few seem to have kids and actually understand the added commitments that come with children. As a parent, I don't feel it would be right for me to uproot them and turn their lives upside down just so I could go to medical school. If push comes to shove, I'd rather be a good parent to my kids than a doctor. I think most parents would make the same choice.

I don't have the spouse who can work and earn a decent salary, so that's not an option.

For me, it's not so much about the work - it's about providing my kids with a decent upbringing. Working seems like it's going to be part of that reality unless there's some very generous lenders out there.

(BTW, I wouldn't work during the week. It would be a weekend thing for me. Maybe a few evenings. There's no way I would schedule work during 9-5 when I may have med school obligations to fulfil. And I would expect my lab partners to understand that while they may want to spend their afternoons exercising and then sit around cutting stuff up between the hours of 7 and 11 at night, I'm unlikely to be joining them.)

I'm beginning to get the impression that like my prior post-grad education, the regular students are very happy to have older students and married people and parents in their class, but as soon as that parent dares to even suggest that the group schedule something around a 9-5 schedule or around a parent-teacher meeting or a pediatrician's appointment, the claws come out and suddenly having a parent in the group is a disgusting, unbearable inconvenience that attracts nothing but hatred from the other students. Not because they're bad people, but because they simply have no concept of how time-intensive and important it is to be a good parent.

That said, it's not the other students' problem that I'm a parent either.
 

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Interesting responses. Thanks.

It's not that I'm lazy as such. I've seen and experienced first hand the misery that graduating with $100K in student debt (many years ago, when 100K in student debt was a lot), and I just don't want to do that again. Taking on $250K in debt at my age? Madness. If I set my mind to it, I could very easily earn $30,000 or $40,000 annually working part time in my current (and soon to be prior) career, but obviously this would jeopardize the quality of my grades.

I'll borrow whatever I need, obviously. But if I could feasibly get through the first couple of years in reasonable financial shape, I'd prefer to.

Just running through some options and I appreciate the insight you guys have.
Here's an idea... sign on with the National Health Service Corps (NHSC) and go to school for free! Come out debt free with all books and fees paid for as well. This will free you up to focus on your studies.
 

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Here's an idea... sign on with the National Health Service Corps (NHSC) and go to school for free! Come out debt free with all books and fees paid for as well. This will free you up to focus on your studies.
NHSC is quite competitive. They have about 10X as many applicants as they have scholarships each year. Add onto that the service requirement [often] in the middle of Nowhere Iowa or Inner City Slum, and you may see why a parent might not want to drag their kids into that kind of environment.

I'm not opposed to the OP working, but truth be told, once you owe about a hundred grand or so the rest is just gravy. Incredibly expensive gravy, yes, but your monthly repayment varies between a grand and three grand - nothing totally out of the question for most working physicians. Even physicians with kids and a mortgage.
 

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Okay. I think I'm on board with the "working is stupid and will cause you to fail" idea.

The next step - where do students with kids and spouses borrow all this money? I'll need way more than the person living in a one bedroom rented apartment.

Anyone have experience in borrowing craploads of money - like way more than what the school says it should cost?
 

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It's all well and good to let me know that working during medical school is a very bad idea, but unless there's a lender out there who is willing to lend me money for paying the mortgage during medical school, working won't be a luxury or a means of reducing debt - it'll be a necessity.
Get a loan while you are still employed, before you start school. I secured my mortgage before quitting my job, and got exactly what I wanted. Will you be unable to rely solely upon the loans provided to you by the school?

But there's kids involved, and while many med students may be older and even married, very few seem to have kids and actually understand the added commitments that come with children. As a parent, I don't feel it would be right for me to uproot them and turn their lives upside down just so I could go to medical school. If push comes to shove, I'd rather be a good parent to my kids than a doctor. I think most parents would make the same choice.

I don't have the spouse who can work and earn a decent salary, so that's not an option.

For me, it's not so much about the work - it's about providing my kids with a decent upbringing. Working seems like it's going to be part of that reality unless there's some very generous lenders out there.
While its true that most medical students don't have children, I think it's unfair to assume that they don't understand your priorities as a parent. I think that the confusion and lack of understanding here comes from the fact that you don't want to comprimise. I think that most people, regardless of whether or not they have children, will understand a parent wanting to provide everything that they can for their family. I think that's laudable. You should always put your children's happiness and well-being first in your life. However, on top of your family, you also want to juggle a job, a mortgage, and now medical school. I don't see how this is workable, especially if you expect to maintain the same amount of "family time" that you currently have.
While I am certainly NOT of the belief that medicine is a career to which you must dedicate your entire existence, it is unrealistic to think that you can balance all of these committments and still be able to pass your classes. If the goal is to become a doctor, then you'll have to jump through the same hoops as everyone else to get there. Family + medical school? Yes. Family + job? Obviously yes. Family + medical school + job? I think that this is a recipe for trouble, given your limitations and priorities. The point is - something's gotta give. Either you have to give up the bigger house, or you have to go into debt, or you will have to sacrifice time with your family in order to work and pass, or you will have to put off medical school until you have a more sound plan.
Or, you could try and pull off a major balancing act. But that could quickly become a very serious and COSTLY mistake.
In other words, if you are unwilling to make a compromise somewhere, are you sure that medical school is the right thing to do at this point in your life?

I'm beginning to get the impression that like my prior post-grad education, the regular students are very happy to have older students and married people and parents in their class, but as soon as that parent dares to even suggest that the group schedule something around a 9-5 schedule or around a parent-teacher meeting or a pediatrician's appointment, the claws come out and suddenly having a parent in the group is a disgusting, unbearable inconvenience that attracts nothing but hatred from the other students. Not because they're bad people, but because they simply have no concept of how time-intensive and important it is to be a good parent.

That said, it's not the other students' problem that I'm a parent either.
I sincerely doubt that anybody in your class is going to object to a 9-5 schedule. There are several parents in my class, and they have never experienced anything other than support and understanding from the rest of us. Nobody is going to take issue with your priorities, as long as you don't leave the group in the lurch on a regular basis. That said, you shouldn't expect "special treatment" either, just because you are a parent - you will still have the same requirements as everyone else, and the same expectations will be applied to you as to those without families. But, outside of school committments, your time is your own.
After anatomy, you rarely work in groups for anything, anyway. I think you're making a big deal out of something that will be very much a non-issue. Now, if you schedule a group project or presentation or something of that sort, and you don't show up, I can see people being pretty miffed at you (and rightfully so). But, if you have an emergency at home, or your kid gets sick and needs to go to the doctor, or your wife needs you to get the kids because she can't, I'm certain that your classmates would understand. More than that, they would probably offer to help out if they knew what was going on.
 

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Will you be unable to rely solely upon the loans provided to you by the school?
Absolutely unable. Average rent that's in a student budget is around $900 to $1000, give or take. My mortgage is twice that amount. Family finances simply don't fit into a student budget for financial aid purposes.

. . . you don't want to compromise . . . on top of your family, you also want to juggle a job, a mortgage, and now medical school.
Not at all. I want to juggle my family and medical school. But the mortgage isn't going to pay itself for four years. Hence the need for a job. I'd rather not juggle anything at all - it's not something I want to do, and it's something I'll avoid if at all possible. I'm just not seeing any way to avoid it right now. That's all.

I'd be more than happy to borrow everything if possible, but even after a lengthy search on the web, it's not looking very hopeful. Even moving to a trailer won't solve the problem that a typical student budget from a medical school simply doesn't accommodate a family. I have no idea where that family cash is going to come from.

In other words, if you are unwilling to make a compromise somewhere, are you sure that medical school is the right thing to do at this point in your life?
I think that gets to the heart of the matter. It's not that I'm unwilling to compromise. I'm not able to compromise. I'd love to borrow $250K to get through medical school without working, but the problem is I can't seem to find a means to get my hands on that $250K. Lenders are happy to lend up to the amount the school says I need (in the student budget), but no more. And if working to cover the difference is a recipe for disaster, then the thing that's got to go is medical school. I think I could live without going to medical school. I'd be unhappy, sure. But I'd be okay with my decision. But trashing a family simply to get through medical school - not cool. I know that people are urged to "follow their dreams", but when you have kids, those dreams are typically tossed out of the window. :)
 

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Absolutely unable. Average rent that's in a student budget is around $900 to $1000, give or take. My mortgage is twice that amount. Family finances simply don't fit into a student budget for financial aid purposes.
If the mortgage is the big problem then I think its a good idea to sell and reduce your mortgage. Obviously the location you live in will factor into this, but its really not that hard to find a $130-160K home that is big enough for a family of four, at least not in my area (I'm not sure how many kids you have...). If your willing to cramp your style a little or move to a poorer neighborhood (but still safe), then you could probably find a home that meets your needs for $100K.

Now, its true that reducing your mortgage will not fix the issue of providing for a family, but reducing your mortgage and figuring out a way for your wife to bring in some sort of income will probably help.

And.... maybe two to three months into school you'll decide you can handle working 5-10 hours a week.... but I think it would be unwise to PLAN on doing that in advance.
 

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I'm a parent, but my financial situation sounds quite different from yours and allows me to focus on school as much as I need to. Unless you join the military or get involved in some other program that pays your expenses (I'm not suggesting this), you'll probably need to borrow a lot and financial stress could be an issue. Yes, you will need to suck it up and move into lower cost housing and clip coupons. You will need to pay your dues in many ways. It's going to affect you and your kids; we're talking about a significant sacrifice here, but it's worth it in my opinion. I hope we can agree that there is a difference between affecting and permanently damaging to the children.

Now that you know what doesn't work, you can start planning for what will work and you're on that road now ... keep it up. Your spouse might need to bring in whatever money. You may need to explore some child care options that you had not considered. You can make this work. Don't panic. Talk to your office of financial aid and to other married students with kids (there are many out there). It can work even though it will almost certainly be quite difficult at times.
 

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I agree - running this past you guys has made it clear that some things will not work.

The whole selling the house thing. I ran the figures on this many times, and the transaction costs (even with a discount agent or even no agent), coupled with the fact that any mortgage I can get these days will have a higher interest rate than what I have now (I might have the lowest fixed rate mortgage on the planet at the moment) won't save but a tiny bit of cash each month, even downsizing significantly. I could move across town to the much cheaper areas, but that school system has awful (like real bad) drug, violence and facilities problems. To me, that's not an option. Attending those failing public schools for four years would severely screw up their educations. Cashing out on home equity isn't realistic either, seeing as lenders have cracked down on home values and I bet my home hasn't appreciated at all over recent years.

I'll sit down and work some figures at some point, and really examine the sources of funding.

Thanks again.
 
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For those who have worked successfully in professional, stressful careers with typical 50-80 hour weeks for a number of years prior to med school, how did med school compare in terms of a time commitment?
I worked as an engineer in the cut throat energy industry for seven years, but I didn't have the two fraternal cuties in my avatar at the time either (they were born right after my first test block of MS1) so I can't compare exactly apples to apples, but here is my take on it.

I'm probably in the top 1/4 of my class (I'll let you know after finals in four weeks), and I think that if I didn't want to spend time with my family, I could probably put in 8-12 hours per week of freelance engineering work and maintain my class ranking. But it sounds like you don't want family time to suffer. I could probably let my class rank fall and squeeze in time for work and family, but as others have stated, it's not easy to pass in the first place while giving it your all. It really comes down to simple economic principles in the end: no one has enough time, money, and talent to do everything that they want. Something has to give; for me it was being in the top 10% of the class.

On the money front, I do have a sugarmomma, but she was on bedrest for over 3 months and didn't go back to work for 3 more after that, so we lived off the student loans and savings, and that was while paying for both an apartment and a house in another city that wasn't selling due to the housing slump. It never did sell, and I've had to move back and commute the 3 hour round trip for mandatory sessions 2-3 times a week (I'm a homeschooler).

I guess my point is pretty trite: where there is a will, there is a way. Determine what really is most important to you, and you will make it work.

Talk to your financial aid office at your school and you may be able to increase your cost of attendance for childcare or something (even if you don't actually use it ;)). Good luck. :luck:
 

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Does the wife bring home any money?

I think the only way to successfully make money as a medical student is being self employed in something simple. I bought and sold many things through the internet (craigslist, eBay, school postings). I was also fortunate that my dad is a car dealer (rebuilder), and I would often have a wrecked camper or car at my house to piddle with here and there. It did not make me rich, but I still got a decent education, lived comfortably, have minimal debt, and enjoyed myself while in school.

I've done the same thing this year as an intern and it certainly continues to help the bank account.

Its doable; although certainly tough I think if you have to go work by the hour somewhere though. The easiest thing someone can do at home is buy price mistakes, etc etc from the net and resale the items. You can easily make a 'grand or two' per month doing this... and you have a golden ticket of the wife helping with mailing and such.

Its a poor idea to start medical school expecting to be at the bottom of the barrel. I was rather confident I would not be the top notch person as I had other things in life more important, but I kept the balance to keep me from the bottom too...
 

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Here's an idea... sign on with the National Health Service Corps (NHSC) and go to school for free! Come out debt free with all books and fees paid for as well. This will free you up to focus on your studies.

Agree that these types of programs are definitely something you should make an effort to at least look into, especially if you know at this point that you are not against the idea of primary care in some form.

And of course, only you, not the people on here, can decide whether or not you are a person likely to be captivated by the siren of dermatology during your third year; for what it's worth, there ARE people who don't change their mind about it, even people who have done well and have the competitive options still open to them. If you think you might end up wanting to do one of these things, obviously don't sign up for something that binds you to being an fp. But if you don't particularly think so, don't avoid this kind of stuff just because someone says you might maybe decide on something competitive later.

It is true that NHSC is competitive. There are other programs like this though; as a previous poster pointed out there are at least some at the state level as well. Specifics about the length of service required and where it might need to be probably vary between programs -- it's definitely worth researching though.
 

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I agree - running this past you guys has made it clear that some things will not work.

The whole selling the house thing. I ran the figures on this many times, and the transaction costs (even with a discount agent or even no agent), coupled with the fact that any mortgage I can get these days will have a higher interest rate than what I have now (I might have the lowest fixed rate mortgage on the planet at the moment) won't save but a tiny bit of cash each month, even downsizing significantly. I could move across town to the much cheaper areas, but that school system has awful (like real bad) drug, violence and facilities problems. To me, that's not an option. Attending those failing public schools for four years would severely screw up their educations. Cashing out on home equity isn't realistic either, seeing as lenders have cracked down on home values and I bet my home hasn't appreciated at all over recent years.

I'll sit down and work some figures at some point, and really examine the sources of funding.

Thanks again.

It depends how much you want to do this. Whether working in med school is feasible/advisable or not (I would say no) in your case it's an especially bad idea because spending time with your kids is important. You will have more than enough on your plate trying to get through school and have time with your kids.

You may want to consider moving to a different part of the country where housing costs are less. There are areas where you could get a comparable house to what you have now, for far less money. Not only would you reduce your mortgage, you might be able to get some money from the sale of your house that would help to fund school.

If the cost of the mortgage is the sticking point, that would be my suggestion.
 

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In situations like this it does help if the spouse can earn a little money, preferably working out of the house on the computer, etc. Also, your wife could work on weekends or evenings when you are home (maybe a couple of days or so). Even if it's a little bit, it adds up. For example, since you all have a house, maybe she can run a little daycare out of it. Registered homes can make something like $600/kid/month (pre-tax, pre-expenses). You get a couple of kids to take care of and you are bringing in $1200 (pre-tax, pre-expenses) per month working out of your house. If she gets gung-ho about this (really likes kids and taking care of them), then maybe you could have 4 or 5 kids and really help with the finances ($3000/month pre-tax). That would mean studying at school, but you'll probably want to do that anyway.
 

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You may want to consider moving to a different part of the country where housing costs are less.
Except he's already been accepted to his local state school, I'm guessing moving to a different city/state is out of the question.... (unless he is currently planning on a long commute)
 

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Has it been mentioned why the spouse can't get a Job?

You mention having to get the kids to school, pick them up, do after school activities, then only have a few hours to study in the evening... What about the 7-8 hours in between dropping them off and picking them up? You can't study then?

The question for me isn't CAN you work a part-time job while in med school. You probably can, I know some people who do. You're NOT going to be able to find a part-time job that pays as well as you're wanting it to that still allows the flexibility you need.

I suggest looking for ways to cut back money from the lifestyle budget. Get into a cheaper car. Eat out less. Shop less. Buy cheaper food for the kids (j/k :-D ).

Really though, having the idea that you're going to barely pass med school is like deciding you're going to intentionally 'barely make it' over the pit of molten lava you're leaping. The consequences of failure are too great to NOT put in all your effort. And yes, I mean that literally, it's life and death. You may be forgetting in all the angst about the mortgage etc. just what profession you're trying to get into here. When you say you want to put in just enough effort to pass, what you're really saying is "I'm just going to learn 70% of the diseases out there, and hope none of my patients get the other 30%" or "I'm just going to learn 70% of the side effects to all these drugs". People die. YOU can kill them, through neglect or through a wrong action. I'm not being melodramatic, I'm just laying it out there. You mention being fine with going into peds or FP. How would it feel going home to your kids knowing that earlier that day you got a call that one of the children you saw in clinic last week is now dead because you missed something? How insignificant will student loans seem when staring at a multi-million dollar malpractice suit? Hell, in purely selfish terms, how will it feel to put your family through the financial stress of even a part-time med school career only to fail Step 1 and have to quit? When patients come to see you, they don't see your grades. They just know you have a license. So they trust you, with their lives. Medicine isn't to be half-assed. I'm not trying to get on your case, I'm just pointing something out that you may not have thought of yet.

Good luck, whatever you decide :)
 

lilnoelle

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When you say you want to put in just enough effort to pass, what you're really saying is "I'm just going to learn 70% of the diseases out there, and hope none of my patients get the other 30%" or "I'm just going to learn 70% of the side effects to all these drugs". People die. YOU can kill them, through neglect or through a wrong action.
Does that mean that the bottom 25% of every class in med school is going to be killing people on regular occasion?

It does seem a LITTLE melodramatic to me.... although I think you have a point, the information we are learning in med school is actually important for us to know while we are in practice.... And the truth is that there are people who aren't working outside of med school and are trying to succeed and still are in the bottom quarter.... it seems a little unlikely that someone who has tons of responsibility and is trying to work would be able to be successful in school.
 

MattD

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Does that mean that the bottom 25% of every class in med school is going to be killing people on regular occasion?

It does seem a LITTLE melodramatic to me.... although I think you have a point, the information we are learning in med school is actually important for us to know while we are in practice.... And the truth is that there are people who aren't working outside of med school and are trying to succeed and still are in the bottom quarter.... it seems a little unlikely that someone who has tons of responsibility and is trying to work would be able to be successful in school.
Of course that's not what I'm saying. What I AM saying though is that a responsibility exists to learn as much as possible, not as much as is convenient. And while I'm not saying that bottom quartile medical students will be 00-docs, if those people have less fund of knowledge than those in the upper quartile, then yeah, it's entirely possible that they may miss something that someone with better fund of knowledge may pick up on. It wouldn't happen everyday, but it COULD happen. But even if a patient never gets hurt, the fact still remains that under a 'slacker' plan, the OP would be rolling dice with someone else's life. it's a matter of responsibility.
 

lilnoelle

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. it's a matter of responsibility.
I agree.

We probably all waste 5 hours a week on messing around though.... if a person could be completely efficient he could probably work, its just questionable if he could work AND have time for his wife and kids.
 

MattD

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I agree.

We probably all waste 5 hours a week on messing around though.... if a person could be completely efficient he could probably work, its just questionable if he could work AND have time for his wife and kids.
haha, is that all? Well, I don't have kids yet so I likely waste a few more than you :)
 

lilnoelle

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haha, is that all? Well, I don't have kids yet so I likely waste a few more than you :)
Yeah, I probably waste more like 4 hours a day messing around - except on test week. I also spend about three hours a day with my kids. I could almost work a full time job if I were perfectly efficient and didn't have kids!
 

smq123

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I have a wife, children, and a mortgage. I don't want to get into ridiculous amounts of debt like I did with my prior career.
I really think that you should start talking to professionals - make an appointment with the financial aid director of your med school. Then talk to a financial advisor at a bank.

Your problem seems kind of complex, and while we're quick to admit that SDN is "not the place for medical advice," it's most definitely NOT the place for financial advice either!

Good luck. Let us know how things work out for you. :luck:
 

MattD

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Yeah, I probably waste more like 4 hours a day messing around - except on test week. I also spend about three hours a day with my kids. I could almost work a full time job if I were perfectly efficient and didn't have kids!
I hear ya, I probably could too if the hours were flexible. For all my talk earlier, my main beef was with the attitude that mediocrity was an acceptable goal. I certainly don't mean to imply that I actually spend 16 hours a day studying :)

I really think that you should start talking to professionals - make an appointment with the financial aid director of your med school. Then talk to a financial advisor at a bank.

Your problem seems kind of complex, and while we're quick to admit that SDN is "not the place for medical advice," it's most definitely NOT the place for financial advice either!

Good luck. Let us know how things work out for you. :luck:

Very true. A few hundred bucks to a CPA (or whatever) would be your best bet. Lord knows if I were a CPA, I'd drive a nicer car :)
 

lilnoelle

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I For all my talk earlier, my main beef was with the attitude that mediocrity was an acceptable goal. I certainly don't mean to imply that I actually spend 16 hours a day studying :)
Yeah, that was my first impression of the initial post (and a few after that). I get the feeling that we just misunderstood him.
 
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