A moderator's explanation

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by rdennisjr, May 24, 2002.

  1. rdennisjr

    rdennisjr SDN Super Moderator
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    There is obviously a huge firestorm of discussion going on around the board about the actions that SDN has been taking recently with the banning of certain members and the closing of various threads. I'm sort of at the center of this as it was my decision, backed up by the other moderators, to boot davidgreen. I'm sure that not everyone will agree with the decision I made, but there are some incorrect assumptions floating around out there that I would like to clear up.

    First, I did not ban Davidgreen for the use of one or two foul words. During a disagreement with another member Davidgreen started a poll - this poll was completly out of line and is what directly lead to his banning. I've posted the poll below - see for yourself what got him kicked off the board:

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
    Poll: KLEBSIELLA: HITLER OR WORSE?
    Question 1 of 1: You, the reader of this poll, feel that Klebsiella (choose all that apply)
    Choose up to 8
    should eat **** and die.

    should go to hell and die.

    should go f*ck himself.

    is a self-obssessed liar.

    can't spell to save his life and will end up killing most of his patients.

    screams and cries so much about everything to compensate for his small penis.

    has no "intimate knowledge" of the economics of medicine.

    has no understanding of the "fewer hrs/more residents" dilemma and will never answer it because he is a self-obsessed liar who screams and cries so much about everything to compensate for his small penis, has no demonstrable knowlege of medical economics, and is an arrogant f*ck who should eat ****, go to hell, f*ck himself, and die.

    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As you can see, he was banned for what I consider something you should have learned not to do in kindergarten. The other member of the disagreement was not kicked off as he did not behave in such a manner. While some of his posts were rather unprofessional and provoking, they still were somewhat civilized and not nearly this childish.

    There are many posters that have thrown in a few good swear words, some who have turned them into an art-form. Some members have rabid opinions that in my view are way out of line. However, if you behave in a decent manner during your disagreements then neither I nor any of the other moderators will feel the need to step in. We prefer a hands-off method of moderating, but when called for we will take care of business.

    Please be assured that nothing I have done is intended to be insulting or biased. As always, if you have a problem with something I have said, please feel free to contact one of the other moderators or even me personally so I can straighten it out.

    Thanks for being active, avid, professional and emotionally involved members of SDN.

    Dennis
     
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  3. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath

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    lol... I actually think that that's quite funny. We're all adults here... I think it should be our CHOICE to read "Rated R" threads if we want to... and on the same note, if someone doesn't want to, he can CHOOSE not to. And, did this really require him to be "banned" (as lame as that sounds)? IMHO deleting the thread and dropping him an e-mail with an explanation would have been more than sufficient. Whatever, I really don't think it makes a huge difference to him or anyone else either way (and if it does, you really should try and get out more). Just my 2 cents.
     
  4. Qafas

    Qafas Jarhead

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    I agree with the moderators; there should be no room on SDN for obvious nonsense, and certainly not for malice. Dr. Cuts? point is well taken. However, I don?t agree with him. While we can all choose not to read any threads that we don?t want to, there is no reason to allow idiocy to take hold. As far as all of us being adults is concerned, I think one need only look at some of the posts in question to realize that while these posters may be adults per se, their minds and attitudes have a lot of catching up to do.
    I think that the use of foul language is one thing; but the use of foul language with the intent of humiliating or demeaning someone is quite another. There is no reason for us to tolerate such behavior, if for no other reason than the fact that we don?t have to. If we can be expected to refrain from reading such posts, so, too, can these posters be expected to refrain from putting them up in the first place. Finally, if there are those who actually want to read such nonsense, they are the ones who truly need to get out more.
     
  5. focker

    focker Member

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    I for one applaud you for stepping up and saying that this kind of behavior is unacceptable. I understand that you want to give people freedom to speak their minds by taking a hands-off approach, but I think the moderators and adminstrators have let far too much go on for far too long. A serious discussion of residency work hours turned into a childish and absurd argument between Klesiella and davidgreen. This is par for the course here.

    I think the moderators need to start doing a lot more moderating. If a moderator had stepped in said something about this poor behavior sooner, davidgreen would have likely never posted the poll quoted above and he never would have been banned. davidgreen has already reregistered under at least one name and probably several. He has openly admitted that it was him. These new usernames should be banned as well. It's easy enough to figure out when a banned member returns by examining IP addresses.

    There are many other threads that degenerate into personal attacks. Delete the attacks or close the threads. There are several members who consistently attack others and start trouble. Ban them. This is how you build a civilized community where peolpe can discuss things without worrying about petty attacks and childish behavior. The moderators have allowed too much crap for too long. You should demand that people act like adults here. Sometimes I am embarassed for the profession of medicine that some of the people on this board are future doctors.
     
  6. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    We can CHOOSE to read them or not, we can CHOOSE to act maturely or not. Honestly, how often does the latter of both actually happen? Maybe a few times, but with a post like that, things would spiral out of control quickly. Kudos to the moderators for taking a much-needed stand. Too bad their duties must include baby-sitting. As has been said time and time again, although we as college/med students should be able to control ourselves and explain our views, this board probably has many other viewers to whom threads like the above are not appropriate at all - minors, newbies, whatever. Regardless of most of us being students, SDN has a professional image to present. Come on. How hard could it possibly be to have fun and have enjoyable witty debates, without obscene or profane content?
     
  7. focker

    focker Member

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    I just thought I would add that the site owner calling people assholes repeatedly does little to add the credibility of the moderators' request that members refrain from attacking each other.The owners, adminstrators, and moderators should lead by example.
     
  8. Actually, what is to prevent someone from erasing the SDN cookie and re-registering under a different user name?

    Especially with AOL, which assigns a different IP number every time you log in??
     
  9. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    I think the assholes beware is funny as hell. I mean, what other term can be used? Plain and simple, those people are assholes. It just denotes an administrator fed up with having to deal with the stupid crap that people post. Lee's got enough to do without having to babysit. He's providing us with this service, and members abuse it. If I had been him, i'd have been a lot meaner.

    As far as signing on again with a different ISP, etc. Of course that can be done. But it's kinda easy to detect those old people if their behavior is unchanged. I'm sure there are all sorts of tricks. Let them come back. If they're as inane and rude as before, they'll be banned again, i suspect.
     
  10. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    As an Adminstrator and Moderator of this forum, I feel it appropriate for me to comment. In my absence last week (enjoying a much needed vacation), I asked the other Moderators to look in on this forum and intervene if need be. I have come back to a rigorous q2 call schedule and have been unable to delve deeply into the threads at issue here. However, I FULLY support the actions of rdennisjr; I would have done the same.

    It IS true that we do not have to open possibly objectionable threads. Nor do users get banned (and YES we do check IP addresses and try to pan users from the same address reregistering) for using a few salty words here and there. The MAJOR problem I have with the offending thread besides its distastefulness is the possibility it presents SDN for legal matters. If we allow users to post threads which directly THREATEN another user (and this user felt threatened) we are in violation of OUR agreement with our server provider and could possibly face legal action (a remote, but distinct possibility). Therefore, in addition to this thread being in violation of the TOS it places the site at risk; thus it was deleted and the user banned.

    Perhaps we have been too slack in the past - but remember this site is supposed to moderate itself. We are not here to intervene into every thread - I for one am way too busy to scan the hundreds of threads posted each day for possible TOS violations. We NEED the 13,000+ users to Moderate the forums - or if need be, to tell us when something has gotten out of hand and it appears that the admins are not noticing. This is YOUR site and as such you have responsibilities to tell other posters when they are out of line, but to do so in a professional and kind manner. If things don't settle, then we'll step in. In the future, we will be taking a harder stance against this kind of behavior.

    I hope this has made my position clear and helps those understand why I wasn't around to help when this all started. Thanks in advance for your understanding and continued support of SDN.
     
  11. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    Leorl: I agree with you on most of your points, however I find very limited humor in calling someone an A**hole by anyone, age not being a factor. It reveals the limited communication skills and choice of vocabulary, we have over 26,000 words in the english language surely we can be a bit more inventive. Joining in or responding in like manner only reduces the level of intelligence here. Considering the number of people visiting this sight (over 14,000) not everyone is privy to what has occured here and probably experienced surprise at the headline. That being said, I agree with the banning and I too, with others, feel there should be more of this reaction from the powers that be. A personal attack in any form should not be tolerated. Very few of us have been spared such behavior. My normal position is to just ignore that person's posting from then on and hope they will go away. Many of us find this forum extremely helpful and the exchange of ideas invaluable. Limits/structure is a good thing, let's keep it going!!!
     
  12. focker

    focker Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dr Sardonicus:
    <strong>Actually, what is to prevent someone from erasing the SDN cookie and re-registering under a different user name?

    Especially with AOL, which assigns a different IP number every time you log in??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are quite a few ways to figure out if a banned member has returned. Moderators at other boards that I frequent are often able to discover banned members even if they have a new IP. Posting patterns are one way to tell. There are others as well.

    It's not much of an issue here anyway, as almost nobody is ever banned even when they do repeatedly violate their member agreement. I'm honestly shocked that anyone has come to davidgreen's defense. His behavior was way over the line. It still amazes me that people need to go that far before any action is taken.
     
  13. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rdennisjr:
    <strong>There is obviously a huge firestorm of discussion going on around the board about the actions that SDN has been taking recently with the banning of certain members and the closing of various threads. I'm sort of at the center of this as it was my decision, backed up by the other moderators, to boot davidgreen. I'm sure that not everyone will agree with the decision I made, but there are some incorrect assumptions floating around out there that I would like to clear up.

    First, I did not ban Davidgreen for the use of one or two foul words. During a disagreement with another member Davidgreen started a poll - this poll was completly out of line and is what directly lead to his banning. I've posted the poll below - see for yourself what got him kicked off the board:

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
    Poll: KLEBSIELLA: HITLER OR WORSE?
    Question 1 of 1: You, the reader of this poll, feel that Klebsiella (choose all that apply)
    Choose up to 8
    should eat **** and die.

    should go to hell and die.

    should go f*ck himself.

    is a self-obssessed liar.

    can't spell to save his life and will end up killing most of his patients.

    screams and cries so much about everything to compensate for his small penis.

    has no "intimate knowledge" of the economics of medicine.

    has no understanding of the "fewer hrs/more residents" dilemma and will never answer it because he is a self-obsessed liar who screams and cries so much about everything to compensate for his small penis, has no demonstrable knowlege of medical economics, and is an arrogant f*ck who should eat ****, go to hell, f*ck himself, and die.

    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As you can see, he was banned for what I consider something you should have learned not to do in kindergarten. The other member of the disagreement was not kicked off as he did not behave in such a manner. While some of his posts were rather unprofessional and provoking, they still were somewhat civilized and not nearly this childish.

    There are many posters that have thrown in a few good swear words, some who have turned them into an art-form. Some members have rabid opinions that in my view are way out of line. However, if you behave in a decent manner during your disagreements then neither I nor any of the other moderators will feel the need to step in. We prefer a hands-off method of moderating, but when called for we will take care of business.

    Please be assured that nothing I have done is intended to be insulting or biased. As always, if you have a problem with something I have said, please feel free to contact one of the other moderators or even me personally so I can straighten it out.

    Thanks for being active, avid, professional and emotionally involved members of SDN.

    Dennis</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I still don't think your actions were equally done in for all SDNers, as I said before Kbleisalla has done countless attacks on everyone that he disagrees with...some very offending some tothe point of threats...and yet his account is still open....

    David Green should have received a WARNING, about if he ever did it again, then he will lose his privelage!

    on the other hand, you mention the use of profanity as a result of getting banned....it could be a reason....but go ahead and read the screen names of some of the pple who have posted here

    aka "Focker"

    does that ring a bell? :( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
     
  14. focker

    focker Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Originally posted by WatchaMaCallit
    on the other hand, you mention the use of profanity as a result of getting banned....it could be a reason....but go ahead and read the screen names of some of the pple who have posted here

    aka "Focker"

    does that ring a bell? :( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My name is taken from a movie charcter in the film "Meet the Parents." If anyone truly finds it offensive, I would be happy to change it. :)
     
  15. ecm2

    ecm2 Junior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dr. Cuts:
    [QB]... I think it should be our CHOICE to read "Rated R" threads if we want to... and on the same note, if someone doesn't want to, he can CHOOSE not to. QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just in response to this... I understand that people have a choice in whether or not they want to be assholes, but we don't have a choice in when we are a victim of those assholes. I personally have been insulted by some jerks on this forum, through no "choice" of my own. I've seen people ridiculed and made fun of for a simple mistake in their postings. I completely back up the decision of the moderators.
     
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  17. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    Moving to "Everyone" Forum...it needs the action! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     

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