thomas_mcdonald

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AAIMG- (American Association of International Medical Graduates)

• Self established fraud organization
• Unregistered organization with no physical address. No such address in Nevada
• Web site operating from Russia
• No such president( Thomas Moore)or secretary( Sarah Weinstein) exist with those names
• No phone, fax or registered email
• Uses hot mail
• Calls all schools and emails for money anywhere from US $3000 to US $10,000 for writing good on his site with self designed criteria


• Summons by Attorney General of Nevada state
• Law suits pending for fraud in most states
• For School Administration: Do not be fooled; do not pay them money, some wire transferred to Russia to be listed good on site. Illegal organization, Make no association with them, High level investigation and operations to find them in progress. Be careful who ever deals with AAIMG
• For Students: Big fraud organization, look for yourself, call if you can find number in Nevada, write to local address in Nevada you will get your mail back undelivered. Also AAIMG is squeezing money out of students for information. Students have mailed to Russia money. Do not do that Illegal to associate with this organization.



http://www.aaimg.com/------- LOOK AT THIS WEB SITE PROFILE AND OPERATING ADDRESS. OPERATING FROM RUSSIA

© AAIMG, 2002
Design and web hosting by OOO Nautilus, Russia
Disclaimer: OOO Nautilus disclaims any responsibility for the content of this website provided by AAIMG

The American Association of International Medical Graduates, hereafter referred to as AAIMG, was founded in 1992 as a non-profit organization to promote acceptance of United States citizen international medical graduates into mainstream American medical practice.-------Please go into Registry of organizations in state of Nevada from 1992, There is no such organization. Call Nevada State Attorney General for more information on this fraud



Thomas Moore, President
-------------There is no body by that name with no address and phone number. Nevada Attorney General is investigating



AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF INTERNATIONAL
MEDICAL GRADUATES

1802 North Carson Street
Suite 212-2161
Carson City, Nevada 89701 USA ------------There is no physical address, call post office and find out. Write a letter to this address and see for yourself if it is delivered. Fraud address, operating from Russia
PRESIDENT:
Thomas Moore M.D.
e-mail: [email protected]------- LOOK AT THE HOTMAIL ADDRESS. THIS IS A BIG TIME FRAUD ALL EMAILS GO TO RUSSIA WHERE THEY EXTRACT MONEY FROM SCHOOLS AND STUDENTS
M.D. EXECUTIVE SECRETARY:
Sarah B. Weinstein
e-mail: [email protected]------- LOOK AT THE HOTMAIL ADDRESS. THIS IS A BIG TIME FRAUD ALL EMAILS GO TO RUSSIA WHERE THEY EXTRACT MONEY FROM SCHOOLS AND STUDENTS

Guys this was a lot of research for me. Hope I saved some students and schools money---Good Luck
 

Skip Intro

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Please, PLEASE, PLEASE someone who is going to come to this (or other) site(s) and attack AAIMG - just PLEASE - tell me which information on their website is wrong. Show which information - be specific - is inaccurate and misleading.

I've heard this entire issue hashed out from time to time on this and other forums ("they're bogus", "it's a fraud", "they extort schools", etc.) but no one has ever backed this up with facts.

So, to that end, please provide:

(1) SPECIFIC examples of where the information on that website is wrong, defamatory, misleading, (etc.)

(2) Any documented proof of any action by any state attorney's office against this organization.

(3) Proof that Thomas Moore, a person going by that name whom I have personally corresponded with via email in the past, is not an actual person.

All anyone has ever been able to do is provide a lot of circumstantial evidence and conjecture about AAIMG. I'm sure that they have to charge schools for an evaluation. I'm also pretty certain there are a lot of disgruntled schools out there who feel they've been unfairly evaluated. I'm also sure there are a lot of legitimate companies who use foreign-based webhosting and hotmail accounts to save money. All these things do not add up to a de facto assertion that AAIMG is a fradulent organization.

Fish or cut bait. Do something. Provide some real substantiated proof concerning your otherwise potentially libelous allegations, or just keep your conjecture to yourself.

Thank you.

-Skip
 

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Skip Intro said:
Please, PLEASE, PLEASE someone who is going to come to this (or other) site(s) and attack AAIMG - just PLEASE - tell me which information on their website is wrong. Show which information - be specific - is inaccurate and misleading.

I've heard this entire issue hashed out from time to time on this and other forums ("they're bogus", "it's a fraud", "they extort schools", etc.) but no one has ever backed this up with facts.

So, to that end, please provide:

(1) SPECIFIC examples of where the information on that website is wrong, defamatory, misleading, (etc.)

(2) Any documented proof of any action by any state attorney's office against this organization.

(3) Proof that Thomas Moore, a person going by that name whom I have personally corresponded with via email in the past, is not an actual person.

All anyone has ever been able to do is provide a lot of circumstantial evidence and conjecture about AAIMG. I'm sure that they have to charge schools for an evaluation. I'm also pretty certain there are a lot of disgruntled schools out there who feel they've been unfairly evaluated. I'm also sure there are a lot of legitimate companies who use foreign-based webhosting and hotmail accounts to save money. All these things do not add up to a de facto assertion that AAIMG is a fradulent organization.

Fish or cut bait. Do something. Provide some real substantiated proof concerning your otherwise potentially libelous allegations, or just keep your conjecture to yourself.

Thank you.

-Skip
Thank you for your post Skip. I had assumed that there was some validity to these claims but it appears that you have some personal experience that would suggest it is not.

Therefore, if the OP does not respond with some "proof" within 1 week, I shall delete the post as being against SDN TOS.
 

f_w

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I don't know anything about the area of fake caribbean medical schools and fake associations evaluating these schools, but here are some morsels regarding AAIMG:

- The corporation does exist, however the spelling of the name is incorrect on their website

- their registration status is suspended because of financial irregularities in their dealings with the sec states office

- The registered agent is one of the well known 'incorporation mills'. (All you need is $300 to register a corp in Nevada.)
http://www.val-u-corp.com/

- The physical address of AAIMG is the location of val-u-corp. If you do a google search with the address you will find about 30 other companies listed in the same 'suite'. So, while the website tries to give you the impression of a well organized large entity, in fact it is a mailslot in the office of a company specializing in the maintenance of corporations for third parties.

- The website claims that 'members' of AAIMG have evaluated the various schoools. There is however no indication on how to become a 'member' and who the current ones are.

- Thomas Moore is not such an uncommon name for a physician. CMS lists approximately 20 UPIN's mapping to that name. So, while that person does exist, we have no way of checking on his credentials. There is no physician by the name of Thomas Moore listed in NV, either on the CMS or the AMA databases.

- The names of the other corporate officers don't have UPIN's mapping to them. So, either these physicians are residents, or they don't exist.




==============================================

This is the listing from the NV sec of state site:

ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL GRADUATES


Corporation Information

Status: Active File Date: 9/7/1999
Type: NRS78 - Domestic Corporation Corp Number: C21961-1999
Qualifying State: NV List of Officers Due: 9/30/2005
Managed By: Expiration Date:
Foreign Name: On Admin Hold: False


Resident Agent Information

Name: VAL-U-CORP SERVICES, INC. Address 1: 1802 N CARSON ST.
Address 2: #212 City: CARSON CITY
State: NV Zip: 89701
Phone: Fax:
Email: Mailing Address 1:
Mailing Address 2: Mailing City:
Mailing State: Mailing Zip:

View all corporations under this resident agent

Financial Information

No Par Share Count: 25,000.00 Capital Amount: $ 0
No stock records found for this company


Officers Include Inactive Officers

President - THOMAS MOORE, MD
Address 1: 1802 N CARSON ST STE 212 Address 2:
City: CARSON CITY State: NV
Zip: 89701 Country:
Status: Active Email:

Treasurer - RACHAEL SILVER
Address 1: 1802 N CARSON ST STE 212 Address 2:
City: CARSON CITY State: NV
Zip: 89701 Country:
Status: Active Email:

Secretary - SARAH WEINSTEIN
Address 1: 1802 N CARSON ST STE 212 Address 2:
City: CARSON CITY State: NV
Zip: 89701 Country:
Status: Active Email:
 

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f_w said:
I don't know anything about the area of fake caribbean medical schools and fake associations evaluating these schools.
Then, maybe you should reserve comment. And, everything else you offer is again circumstantial and irrelevant. I'm sure that AAIMG is a "mom and pop" group that is trying to provide a service for a fee. I just ask - again - someone please tell me what information, not related to the way they are incorporated or where their website is registered or the fact that they have a hotmail addresses, on that website pertaining to the reports on the findings of the medical schools is inaccurate or misleading. What specific things do they say about a particular school are just flat out wrong, defamatory, misleading (etc.).

All of this superfluous Perry Mason-esque investigating is irrelevant ad hominem and does not help people who read their site come to a conclusion about the usefulness or validity of what's actually on the site.

-Skip
 

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Skip Intro said:
All of this superfluous Perry Mason-esque investigating is irrelevant ad hominem and does not help people who read their site come to a conclusion about the usefulness or validity of what's actually on the site.

-Skip
Very few people, here or at ValueMD care for the AAIMG.

I can't speak toward the material pertaining to the Carib. schools, though the information posted in general about the Eastern European schools is pretty damn accurate. Information about specific programs, however appears hopelessly out of date.
 

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Miklos said:
Very few people, here or at ValueMD care for the AAIMG.
Well, that's because some of the information makes their choice of school look bad. They feel defensive about what's posted there. It really doesn't matter, though, what some people personally think about AAIMG. All that matters is if the information is accurate. But, because people feel personally offended, they offer a lot of circumstantial ad hominem in an attempt to diminish the credibility of the information there. I say stop attacking the owners and operators of that website, and instead criticize the information presented there. All you hear about is how it's a fraud (etc., etc.), and nothing about whether or not what they say about a particular school is indeed true.

Miklos said:
I can't speak toward the material pertaining to the Carib. schools, though the information posted in general about the Eastern European schools is pretty damn accurate. Information about specific programs, however appears hopelessly out of date.
I agree with, at the very least, what it specifically says about Ross and find it to be very accurate. But, the fact that the information presented is somewhat out of date is a valid criticism. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a mechanism in place to re-evaluate the schools in a more timely manner. I surmise, having had direct email contact with Dr. Moore (or whomever is purporting to be him), that this has to do with the fact that they are a small, self-funded/partially school-funded, independent organization that does not have the manpower or the money to do more investigations and updating.

What I'd like to see this organization grow into, but I'm not so naive that I think it actually will, is a partially government endorsed, government funded organization that actively serves as a non-biased clearinghouse of information on schools. Why this won't happen (at least from a government-funded sense) is that schools who "pass" the evaluation process will then attempt to utilize this as some sort of quasi-endorsement or pseudo-accreditation of their program.

What should more accurately happen, and what I hope to see happen, is a sort of JCAHO model evolve out of this fledgling company. JCAHO is actually an independent accrediting agency that healthcare organizations agree to participate in. In agreeing to do so, they are privy to fuding from the federal government and continued medicare/medicaid reimbursement privileges, among other things.

If AAIMG could convince offshore schools, in working with the federal government to continue FFEL funding and the like, to willingly participate in this process, then I think it could grow into a truly legitimate and useful organization. All of these issues of legitimacy (and the aspersions cast upon them by those who are surely among a group of disgruntled diploma mill operators) would vanish if the schools agreed openly to participate in this process.

However, schools (such as Ross, SGU, and AUC, to name just a few) already participate in evaluation by boards such as the New York State Education Board. And, they already have to pass other requirements to get FFEL approved loans for their students.

So, until such a time as the federal government and state licensing boards want to farm this out to an organization such as the AAIMG, things will continue pretty much as they are - and people will be suspicious of their activities. Of course, the founders of this "mom and pop" group probably hope that this will someday be the case, and that they will get state licensing boards and the U.S. DOE to buy-in to their organization and the function they serve. This may never happen due to the incredibly politically charged issues surrounding Caribbean schools, but this is the direction I'd try to take the AAIMG if I was at the helm.

In theory and barring all else, this is an organization with admirable goals - namely, to keep these offshore schools honest. Are there problems with how they operate? Maybe. Probably. But, to completely dismiss what they do and what they have to offer as a resource because of some unsubstantiated circumstantial conjecture is, in my opinion, dubious in and of itself. I'd be willing to bet that those casting aspersion on the AAIMG are themselves among those who have to most to gain by denigrating their efforts. Since they can't attack the findings (which are likely true), they attack the source.

-Skip
 

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The way they conduct their business IS relevant if one wants to give any credibility to their 'evaluations'.

The guy issues press releases and comments on everything from global warming to genetic fingerprinting using the pompous name of his little mailbox outfit in Carson City. But if you try to figure out who he and his posse are, their website doesn't really give too much information.

While I can't comment on any of the other allegations made by the OP, the information on the site looks like little more than the opinion of a single individual.

I wouldn't buy a bucket of paint from an outfit run out of a mailbox, much less would I make my medical education dependent on their 'evaluations'.
 

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f_w said:
The way they conduct their business IS relevant if one wants to give any credibility to their 'evaluations'.
Is the information about the schools posted on the website wrong?

f_w said:
The guy issues press releases and comments on everything from global warming to genetic fingerprinting using the pompous name of his little mailbox outfit in Carson City. But if you try to figure out who he and his posse are, their website doesn't really give too much information.
Is the information about the schools posted on the website wrong?

f_w said:
While I can't comment on any of the other allegations made by the OP, the information on the site looks like little more than the opinion of a single individual.
Is the information about the schools posted on the website wrong?

f_w said:
I wouldn't buy a bucket of paint from an outfit run out of a mailbox, much less would I make my medical education dependent on their 'evaluations'.
Is the information about the schools posted on the website wrong?

-Skip
 

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Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated !
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated !
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated !
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated !


Your style of discussion reminds me of the Vogons.

What vested interest do you have in that site ? Do you participate in the profits of this racket ?
 

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f_w said:
What vested interest do you have in that site ? Do you participate in the profits of this racket ?
None and no.

But, I am trying to prove a point here. You cannot use ad hominem (as you have just done) as a legitimate arguing tactic. AAIMG is clearly the subject of a smear campaign, whether or not the allegations against them are substantiated or even relevant for that matter.

When push comes to shove, either the information on that website concerning the schools is wrong and/or misleading, or it is not. The rest of the attacks against the operators of that website - all of which at this point have not been adequately supported with irrefutable and unquestionable evidence - are nothing more than conjecture. I'd argue that the information presented on that site is not, at least in the instance of Ross, SGU, and St. Matthew's (school's whose programs I am very familiar with, have read the AAIMG information, and can readily corroborate) and, as one other poster stipulated, the schools in Eastern Europe, is indeed very accurate.

-Skip
 

f_w

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Making your decision on what medical school do go to dependent on the information on that AAIMG site is akin to buying a Rolex from a street vendor on Times Square(you know, the kind who has his watches lined up on the inside of a small portfolio that he carries around with him) .

And you are the guy trying to convince his friends to buy more: 'but dude, trust him, I have bought two rolexes from the guy, and they both look like the real thing'.
 

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f_w said:
Making your decision on what medical school do got dependent on the information on that AAIMG site is akin to buying a Rolex from a street vendor.

This is an incredibly bad analogy.

Again, you are making a de facto assertion, by this statement, that the folks running AAIMG are crooks. You are demonstrating, despite the lack of any credible or verifiable evidence, that you believe what you've read by people such as those who've started this thread. You are using some perception of the credibility (or lack thereof) of this group to completely dismiss the information presented there. You are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

f_w said:
And you are the guy who fell for the scam and is trying to argue with his buddies using the argument: 'but dude, trust him, I have bought two rolexes from the guy, and they both look like the real thing'.
Not at all. There are many different ways to get information and avenues to investigate before making a decision to attend an offshore medical school that caters to U.S. students. Clearly, to make a decision whether or not to attend a particular offshore medical school based on one source of information would be foolhardy. But, if you have a strong base of information that shows that a particular source out there is credible, what is the point of not using it?

But, to continue to run with your weak analogy, I'm actually more like the guy who dragged the dude into a real jewelry store, had him show an appraiser behind the counter the watch he was trying to sell me for $10 bucks, saw that the jeweler agreed it was real, and then bought it. Now, that watch may indeed be hot, but that doesn't mean it's not a real Rolex.

-Skip
 

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So, your point is that the some of information this Moore guy gives matches with your expectations. As a result you are willing to assume that other information he provides is truthful.
 

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f_w said:
So, your point is that the some of information this Moore guy gives matches with your expectations.
Yes.

f_w said:
As a result you are willing to assume that other information he provides is truthful.
No, I'm asking for clear, irrefutable documentation that it is not. You have not (nor has anyone else) been able to provide that, aside from the attempted character assassinations.

-Skip
 

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Ok, so a sliver of the information could be verified, as a result you are happy to accept the rest as gospel, no matter how shady the source.

(maybe requiring a bit more scientific rigor from candidates for medical school admission wouldn't be a bad thing.)
 

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f_w said:
Ok, so a sliver of the information could be verified, as a result you are happy to accept the rest as gospel, no matter how shady the source.

(maybe requiring a bit more scientific rigor from candidates for medical school admission wouldn't be a bad thing.)
Do you seriously have a reading comprehension problem? Stop trying to put words in my mouth. (You'd make a great sleazeball lawyer. You are just full of rhetoric... and something else too... but not much else.)

Let's look at the original post in this thread and determine the credibility/verifiability of the accusations that one "thomas_mcdonald", who has only one post on this forum by the way, made:

thomas_mcdonald said:
• Self established fraud organization
Okay, maybe self-established, but how does this make it fraudulent? Proof please to back-up an otherwise libelous statement.

thomas_mcdonald said:
• Unregistered organization with no physical address. No such address in Nevada
You already demonstrated that they are a licensed corporation through a corporate registration clearinghouse - but you didn't provide a direct link to their company information (want to now?). Perhaps they incorporated in Nevada to protect themselves against frivolous lawsuits by pissed-off operators of shady schools they expose (something the federal government should be more vigilent doing for it's citizens in the first place)? Why is that any less plausible explanation than the sinister insinuations that others want that to have?

thomas_mcdonald said:
• Web site operating from Russia
Ibid.

thomas_mcdonald said:
• No such president( Thomas Moore)or secretary( Sarah Weinstein) exist with those names
Says who? This guy? I could give you my real name (but, for obvious reasons, I won't) and I still guarantee that it would be very hard to find me doing a simple web search.

thomas_mcdonald said:
• No phone, fax or registered email
Again, what does this prove? What is the insinuation by reporting this?

thomas_mcdonald said:
• Uses hot mail
So what? My dad has his own business that he runs out of his house that is incorporated as a LLC, and he uses a RoadRunner account for his email. What does this prove? By your criteria, my dad must be running a fraudulent organization. :rolleyes:

thomas_mcdonald said:
• Calls all schools and emails for money anywhere from US $3000 to US $10,000 for writing good on his site with self designed criteria
Okay, now we're getting into verifiable information. Perhaps schools can be contacted or otherwise provide direct proof, on their websites, that they have been "extorted" (as this passage, again, insinuates) by Dr. Moore. If they have been so wronged by Dr. Moore and the AAIMG, why don't they make a public statement on their website that this is a fraudulent organization that has misrepresented their school? Seems like that would clear up a lot of confusion after prospective students went to the AAIMG website and then to the individual school's page.

thomas_mcdonald said:
• Summons by Attorney General of Nevada state
Again, great! More verifiable information! Please post a link to the State of Nevada's Office of Attorney General specifying the nature of the summons.

Here's a link to the Nevada DOJ Attorney General's search page:

http://ag.state.nv.us/search.htm

I entered several different search strings that may yield information about any action being taken by the Attorney General's office against AAIMG. Nothing. (Go ahead; try for yourself.)

thomas_mcdonald said:
• Law suits pending for fraud in most states
Oh brother! I'm sure that this gem is easy to verify. Most "states" are so interested in the activities of the AAIMG that they have time to enter lawsuits for fraud against this "mom and pop" organization. :laugh: If not the states actually suing the AAIMG, then who? What American citizens have suffered any damages from the supposed "fraud" perpetrated by the AAIMG?

This is so laughable it's just... laughable. :laugh:

thomas_mcdonald said:
• For School Administration: Do not be fooled; do not pay them money, some wire transferred to Russia to be listed good on site. Illegal organization, Make no association with them, High level investigation and operations to find them in progress. Be careful who ever deals with AAIMG
Speaky English.

thomas_mcdonald said:
• For Students: Big fraud organization, look for yourself, call if you can find number in Nevada, write to local address in Nevada you will get your mail back undelivered. Also AAIMG is squeezing money out of students for information. Students have mailed to Russia money. Do not do that Illegal to associate with this organization.
If I had to guess, this is the rantings of someone who has a bone to pick with this organization, but has no real action to take against them probably because whatever was said about them on the AAIMG website is true!

How do I know this? I don't! I don't claim that I can verify any of this. But, I do know that neither is any of this nonsense presented here by one "thomas_mcdonald" verified either.

So, that leaves me with only one option. I have to weigh the opinions, based on the information presented so far, which tells me that the information I know firsthand about some of the schools in question is accurately related on the AAIMG website, however or whomever is garnering and supplying that information. I weigh that against this detritus posted by some solo-poster "thomas_mcdonald' here and I draw my own conclusions. That's the best I can do.

So should everyone else do the same. Like I said before, there's no single good source of information on the offshore schools out there.

-Skip
 

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Legitimate Accreditation Organizations

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/accreditation.html

Accreditation of colleges in the U.S. is done by regional and specialized accrediting associations operated by consortia of member colleges. The U.S. Department of Education recognizes accrediting bodies for purposes of institutional financial aid eligibility and other areas in which the federal government has an interest. The U.S. government itself does not accredit colleges, unlike common practice in many countries. Likewise, the federal government does not accredit or conduct academic evaluation of foreign colleges.

Approval by a state government is not accreditation, unless the approval is accreditation by the New York Regents.

For a complete list of legitimate accrediting agencies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education, see the following website:

www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/index.html


How does ODA evaluate foreign colleges?

ODA uses three principal screening tests to decide whether a non-U.S. college issues degrees legitimate for use in public or licensed employment in Oregon. In order to be allowed in Oregon, a degree must meet ALL of these tests.

Can the school's degrees be used as credentials within the host country? That is, if the school issues an M.D., can the person use that degree to become licensed to practice medicine in the host country? In many cases the country has a formal list of its approved schools. Unfortunately, in some cases this list includes some stowaways owing to inadequate screening.

Does the host country have adequate academic oversight practices?

Under Oregon law, ODA determines this on a case-by-case basis. Our list of unaccredited schools provides an idea of which countries have doubtful oversight.

Do accredited Oregon colleges generally accept credits or degrees issued by the foreign school?

ODA can advise Oregon residents as to whether a degree from a foreign school is likely to be accepted here. Our principal consultant on foreign school evaluations is the international office at the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers in Washington, D.C.

Note that the UNESCO database is no longer reliable as an indicator of the legitimacy of foreign schools because UNESCO has no screening function and has permitted some doubtful schools to be listed.


“Accrediting” entities not recognized by the State of Oregon

In order to be valid for public or licensed employment in Oregon, a degree must be earned at one of the following:

An institution accredited by an U.S. accreditor recognized as such by the U.S. Department of Education. Licensure by another state (except for the New York Board of Regents) does not by itself meet this standard.

A foreign institution having the foreign equivalent of U.S.-approved accreditation as determined by ODA.

A U.S. institution approved by ODA subsequent to evaluation.

Because of the proliferation not only of substandard colleges but of questionable accrediting bodies, ODA is providing this list of well-known unapproved “accreditors” as a public service. This is not a comprehensive list of unapproved “accreditors,” but simply a list of some that have come to ODA’s attention.

These bodies are not approved by the U.S. Department of Education and therefore any so-called “accreditation” by these bodies is meaningless in Oregon and in some other states. “Accreditation” of an institution by any of these entities does not meet legal requirements for use in Oregon of a degree earned at such an institution (ORS 348.609).


Entity Location

Accelerated Degree Programs
Accrediting Commission International Based in Arkansas
American Association of International Medical Graduates
Association for Online Academic Excellence Possibly based in Wales
Association of Christian Colleges and Theological Schools Based in Virginia
Central States Council on Distance Education 4401 Connecticut Avenue NW, Suite 205, Washington DC 20001
Distance Graduation Accrediting Association
Distance Learning Council of Europe
European Council for Distance & Open Learning
Expressive Psychology Association
International Association of Universities and Schools Based in Switzerland
International Education Ministry of Accreditation Association
International University Accrediting Association based in California
National Board of Education Liberia, also Washington DC
Southern Accrediting Association of Bible Institutes and Colleges
United Congress of Colleges Ireland, UK
US-DETC Nevada (Note: Not to be confused with the legitimate DETC, based in Washington DC.)
Verity College Illinois, Michigan Note: A test-prep entity, not a college.
Virtual University Accrediting Association based in California
World Association of Universities and Colleges Based in Nevada



For more information on accreditation and fraud, click on the link below. It is a federal resource on fakery.

www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ous/international/usnei/us/edlite-accred-fraud.html

For information on how to obtain an “Apostille” for international validation of degrees issued in Oregon, click on the link below. It will take you to the Corporation Division of the Oregon Secretary of State website.

www.sos.state.or.us/corporation/notary/howtoauth.htm
 

Miklos

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mtt,

This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with what they post about St. Chris, would it?

http://www.aaimg.com/list/cambridge.html

Also from Oregon... http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm

Media Releases

Attorney General Closes Down Unlicensed Medical School


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 24, 2000

Attorney General Hardy Myers today announced that an Oregon couple operating an unlicensed medical school based out of the West Indies, with some classes being taught in Klamath Falls and Eugene, is out-of-business in Oregon.

Named in a temporary restraining order and a lawsuit filed late Friday in Lane County Circuit Court are Daniel and Barbara Harrington of Eugene and their company Interactive Technology Group, Inc. (ITG) that did business as St. John’s University School of Medicine of Montserrat, West Indies. ITG also operated an online business selling "pay as you learn" multi-media educational software by monthly subscription. Some of the courses offered include Neuro Anatomy, Lung Pathology, Cat Lab and Lab Animal Science trainer.

Pending a show-cause hearing scheduled July 31 in Eugene, the defendants are prohibited from soliciting students for any educational programs by telephone, by e-mail, by web site or in person. Defendants are restrained from removing any business assets out-of-state, including funds held in Oregon bank accounts.

"Students hoping to obtain a medical degree have been duped by this supposed medical school," Myers said. "The Harringtons have been operating an unlicensed ‘school of medicine’ since 1999 and it appears credits earned by students are worthless."

The lawsuit alleges that the Harringtons misrepresented the school’s legal status with the Montserrat government and described the school’s "medical curriculum" as designed to meet the most stringent standards required for medical licensure within the United States. Neither statement was true.

The lawsuit seeks civil penalties of $25,000 per violation; restitution to students and attorneys fees and investigative costs; and to permanently prohibit the Harringtons from conducting any further business in Oregon.

Department of Justice investigators were informed of possible problems with the West Indies school by a student from Michigan, who paid $13,600 for a summer term of classes to be held in Montserrat only to discover that the school was not accredited. The student had earlier attended the school’s winter and spring "distance learning" sessions in Klamath Falls and Eugene.

The defendants told students questioning the school’s credentials that their St. John’s transcripts would be accredited through St. Christopher’s College of Medicine with campuses in both Cambridge, England and Dakar, Senegal and an "office of registrar" in Florida. Students were encouraged to view the St. Christopher’s web site, which features campus photos of Cambridge University, not St. Christopher’s College of Medicine. The actual school is in an upstairs location in a nearby neighborhood.

According to the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization (ODA) and the World Health Organization (WHO), St. John’s University School of Medicine is not currently licensed by government agencies in Montserrat or Oregon and St. Christopher’s College of Medicine does not appear to be licensed or accredited by anyone. In Britain and Senegal, medical students are required to take classes for five to eight years in order to obtain a degree. St. Christopher’s web site offers a four—year program in both of those countries.

Students contemplating undergraduate or graduate programs should thoroughly research all schools. Prospective students should ask for written materials and look for information online. Check on credentials by calling the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization at (541) 687-7452 or online at www.osac.state.or.us. Students also may check for complaints by calling the Attorney General’s consumer hotline at (503) 378-4320 (Salem area only), (503) 229-5576 (Portland area only) or toll-free at 1-877-877-9392. Consumer protection information also is available online at www.doj.state.or.us.

# # # #
 

neilc

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so, let me get this straight, mtt...oregon says AAIMG is not approved, therefore they are fraudulent?

ok, well CA says st chris is not approved as a medical school. so, by your own logic, your school is fraudulent..

too bad for you
 

neilc

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and, mtt, if you read it your post, it merely says that AAIMG is not an accrediting body. i don't think they ever claimed to be.

i would bet that oregon put that on the list because some fool tried to apply for a license from a school listed on AAIMG and claimed that is who accredited them.

basically, you are trying to say that since AAIMG is not an accrediting agency according to the state of oregon, they must be a fraud. i read it differently....i interpret it to mean that they are not an accreding agency.
 

bts4202

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neilc said:
so, let me get this straight, mtt...oregon says AAIMG is not approved, therefore they are fraudulent?

ok, well CA says st chris is not approved as a medical school. so, by your own logic, your school is fraudulent..

too bad for you
Actually, Cali does not say anything about St chris, so your logic fails.

AAIMG is a false organization that pretends that they do school evals and "site visits". No school has ever admitted that any member of AAIMG has been able to look at any of the info that they claim to evaluate.

Their criteria is great. All students should take their criteria and use it to judge if a school they are considering is good or not. However, their evals are not accurate at all.
 

f_w

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bts4202:
You can't post anything critical regarding AAIMG here. Soon the AAIMG Gestapo will come after you. I can already see their post in front of me:


proof proof show my proof prooof proof show my proof no proof show my proof no proof no proof proooof show my proof proove to me proof proof proof proof show my proof prooof proof show my proof no proof show my proof no proof no proof proooof show my proof proove to me proof proof proof proof show my proof prooof proof show my proof no proof show my proof no proof no proof proooof show my proof proove to me proof proof proof proof show my proof prooof proof show my proof no proof show my proof no proof no proof proooof show my proof proove to me proof proof
 

neilc

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bts4202 said:
Actually, Cali does not say anything about St chris, so your logic fails.
california says if your school is not on the approved list, your school is not approved....so, st chris is NOT on the good list, which equals being on a bad list. logic intact....

it really does not matter...the point is what one state says about AAIMG and it's ability to accredit means squat. just like what CA says about st chris is not a universal condemnation, merely a state policy.

AAIMG has issues. but, many of the points are well made and accurate. while all of the info is not up to date, if you see a school on there with listed problems, it would be wise to follow up on that! likewise, if the school is listed as great on AAIMG, it would be a nice thing, but verify this as well.

it is funny, people trying to sound the death knell for this small web page, calling it a fraud, inaccurate or whatever. it sucks if your school is listed with problems, especially if they have been fixed. but, if the problems were there, i think potential students would like to know about them, and how they were fixed. so, even the inaccurate stuff can be helpful
 

bts4202

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neilc said:
california says if your school is not on the approved list, your school is not approved....so, st chris is NOT on the good list, which equals being on a bad list. logic intact....

it really does not matter...the point is what one state says about AAIMG and it's ability to accredit means squat. just like what CA says about st chris is not a universal condemnation, merely a state policy.
You are making it too easy to prove u wrong...

Cali's actual "bad list": http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Applicant_Schools_Unapproved.htm

Cali's "good list": http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Applicant_Schools_Recognized.htm

Schools not on either list are not eligible for licensure because they have not been evaluated. However, no comments are made on their quality of education because they have no information to make such a statement.


AAIMG is a very shady organization, created by certain owners of foriegn medical schools and used to damage the competition. Again, their criteria are great, the bad thing is that none of the schools listed have actually been evaluated on those criteria. Take their criteria and evaluate each school on your own to get a more accurate veiw of where you are considering going.
 

neilc

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uh, i think the fact that they will not let you work there is comment enough on the quality of education! there is no difference in the disapproved schools, and other schools that are not on either list! if you are not approved, you are screwed...the fact that st chris will not apply because they KNOW they will get denied puts you in the same boat as those on the disapproved list. you can play with your semantics all you want.

basically, ask yourself this..is st chris recognized in CA? the answer is NO! simple..

but, the whole purpose of my statement was to show that how oregon feels about AAIMG as an accrediting agent really means nothing...just as the fact that CA does not recognize st chris does not mean that automatically st chris is fraudulent...(i think there are a host of reasons to avoid this school, and not being on this list is just one of them!!! :laugh: )

and, which owners of which offshore med schools created the sites??? that is a good one...this school owner sure has a lot of nice things to say about a lot of schools. seems like wasted marketing money, as many schools come out looking good! you say AAIMG is fraudulent, you say they are owned by the owners of another carib school...well, you offer no proof. i agree they are outdated, but that is about the only problem i see. the information about EE is correct, so it seems they have visited here....most of the info about other schools is correct as well, or was at some point...so, how do you know they didn't visit? could they not have posed as potential students? or recieved info from potential students, or past students or faculty?

you make a lot of assumptions....show us some facts, or you are even worse than the AAIMG you claim is misleading! they at least have demonstrable accuracies, with the only problem being out of date. you just make stuff up that never has been true, at least not with any solid evidence
 

Skip Intro

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f_w said:
Soon the AAIMG Gestapo will come after you.
What? Who's the "AAIMG Gestapo"? I don't need proof of who's running AAIMG nor do I claim to know (except that I've corresponded via email with one person purporting to be "Dr. Moore" from AAIMG); I just want to know specifically what is misleading on their website. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp? Either the information posted there is generally correct, or it's not. Simple. In the meantime, if someone wants to post some credible, supported, actual dcoumentation that shows they are a "fraudulent organization" (or whatever other allegations have been leveled against them), I'd be more than happy to look at it.

Now, in the meantime, stop being so melodramatic, f_w, which is something you seem to have the propensity for. Talk to the facts.

f_w said:
proof proof show my proof prooof proof show my proof no proof show my proof no proof no proof proooof show my proof proove to me proof proof proof proof show my proof prooof proof show my proof no proof show my proof no proof no proof proooof show my proof proove to me proof proof proof proof show my proof prooof proof show my proof no proof show my proof no proof no proof proooof show my proof proove to me proof proof proof proof show my proof prooof proof show my proof no proof show my proof no proof no proof proooof show my proof proove to me proof proof
Dude, you need help.

-Skip
 

f_w

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Took you a while to catch that one, didn't it.
 

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f_w said:
Took you a while to catch that one, didn't it.
:confused:

Is this a de facto admission that you are just trolling? In the absence of a direct response, I'll understand that to be in the affirmative.

-Skip
 

f_w

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Your nervous reply indicates that you recognized yourself in that characterization.
 

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f_w said:
Your nervous reply indicates that you recognized yourself in that characterization.
Nervous? :laugh: This is just about the type of response I've come to expect from you. Pretty much par for the course, troll.

-Skippy
 

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f_w said:
I don't know anything about the area of fake caribbean medical schools and fake associations evaluating these schools, but here are some morsels regarding AAIMG...
Just a reminder of the modus operandi of our favorite feckless fear-mongering fool when it comes to the usefulness of his opinion on matters concerning things he freely admits are clearly beyond his realm of knowledge.

:laugh:

-Skip
 

kstone13

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Exhausting!

But I will say the energy summoned by all parties in effectively eliminating the quandary created by the original post was impressive.

Nonetheless, and for the sake of half-hearted attempts to amuse and poor analogies, where was the stenographer to ease the burden on me, but more importantly for future audiences? (Please, disregard the fact that the communicative medium was not verbal and that the typical, educated person doesn't readily understand shorthand.)

So, I'll do the honors in a modified, simplified and Wonkawashified style:

Z: Boo-yah.
A: You suck.
B: No, you suck.
A: You suck... 2x.
B: No, you suck... 3x
Painstaking
Details
And
Tripe
C: Hey A, you suck.
A: No, you suck C.
To
Sift
Through

With a lil' light shown on the interactive nature of government and private enterprises, school allegiences and...

Egos.




I think.


AMENDMENT (10mins after original reply): It has come to my attention that the shorthand reference is debunk, cording is apparently the 'in thing'.
 

whuds

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Skip Intro said:
Please, PLEASE, PLEASE someone who is going to come to this (or other) site(s) and attack AAIMG - just PLEASE - tell me which information on their website is wrong. Show which information - be specific - is inaccurate and misleading.

I've heard this entire issue hashed out from time to time on this and other forums ("they're bogus", "it's a fraud", "they extort schools", etc.) but no one has ever backed this up with facts.

So, to that end, please provide:

(1) SPECIFIC examples of where the information on that website is wrong, defamatory, misleading, (etc.)

(2) Any documented proof of any action by any state attorney's office against this organization.

(3) Proof that Thomas Moore, a person going by that name whom I have personally corresponded with via email in the past, is not an actual person.

All anyone has ever been able to do is provide a lot of circumstantial evidence and conjecture about AAIMG. I'm sure that they have to charge schools for an evaluation. I'm also pretty certain there are a lot of disgruntled schools out there who feel they've been unfairly evaluated. I'm also sure there are a lot of legitimate companies who use foreign-based webhosting and hotmail accounts to save money. All these things do not add up to a de facto assertion that AAIMG is a fradulent organization.

Fish or cut bait. Do something. Provide some real substantiated proof concerning your otherwise potentially libelous allegations, or just keep your conjecture to yourself.

Thank you.

-Skip

Okay Skip, AAIMG never never never visited the schools in question so how's that for Fraud? huh? I can't stand these arguments they are pointless. You claim to make valid points but you just say give proof give proof. I say you give proof, you give proof (do you work for AAIMG). My school never was evaluated by them by phone or visit. AAIMG is not real and never was. They have stupid unintelligent deficiencies like renting a building, so what does that matter? I rent a flat does that make me a better or worse student? I'll rent during residency will that make me a worse or better Doctor, hope it doesn't matter on such foolish things.
Can't really sue them because they are in RUSSIA. Have you visted these schools? I'm at one school and it is not as near as bad as the bashers (that have never been to it) say it is. No it is not as nice as going to a med school state side but the education is comparable. How do I know? I know about the med programs in the states and what they entail, I have over 17 years health care experience.

Funny but click on the Eastern Europe link and boom no deficiencies, huh?? they are perfect! I don't think so! SABA, ROSS, SGU all big three deficiencies and what Eastern Europe perfect!

Who's to gain from this? Hm ask your self who's not on that list of deficiencies that's who.
There are big bucks to be made in this med school game.
 

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whuds said:
Okay Skip, AAIMG never never never visited the schools in question so how's that for Fraud? huh? I can't stand these arguments they are pointless. You claim to make valid points but you just say give proof give proof. I say you give proof, you give proof (do you work for AAIMG). My school never was evaluated by them by phone or visit. AAIMG is not real and never was. They have stupid unintelligent deficiencies like renting a building, so what does that matter? I rent a flat does that make me a better or worse student? I'll rent during residency will that make me a worse or better Doctor, hope it doesn't matter on such foolish things.
Can't really sue them because they are in RUSSIA. Have you visted these schools? I'm at one school and it is not as near as bad as the bashers (that have never been to it) say it is. No it is not as nice as going to a med school state side but the education is comparable. How do I know? I know about the med programs in the states and what they entail, I have over 17 years health care experience.

Funny but click on the Eastern Europe link and boom no deficiencies, huh?? they are perfect! I don't think so! SABA, ROSS, SGU all big three deficiencies and what Eastern Europe perfect!

Who's to gain from this? Hm ask your self who's not on that list of deficiencies that's who.
There are big bucks to be made in this med school game.
I'll doubt you'll get a response from Skip as he is retired.

Anyway, if you read the text of the AAIMG page on Eastern Europe, the deficiencies are plain to see (IMO, much of that particular page, though dated is spot on.) They simply didn't use the same "system" for evaluating them and mention this at the top of the page.