ABC News: Tulsa Shooter Battled Chronic Back Pain

[BobBarker]

Goats are terrible mothers and get their heads stuck in the fence. Hair sheep are smarter and better mothers but let themselves get slaughtered by coyotes.

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[Pain Applicant1]

Goats are terrible mothers and get their heads stuck in the fence. Hair sheep are smarter and better mothers but let themselves get slaughtered by coyotes.

I think you raise them, don't you? I think you, or maybe it was someone else, posted about raising goats several years ago.

I engineered the fencing myself so I'm hoping to avoid the stuck head issue. I designed it in part with the head thing in mind. Woven wire with 12 inch stays so they can get their heads in and out. I put a fixed knot in it to increase the strength. I would've put the vertical stays at 4 inches but it would've been too heavy and more expensive. As it is, it's still a pain to work with by myself. Goat people seem to like it so I'm assuming it's been working out.

If it was you who posted about them do you raise them for meat, milk, cheese? Do you sell them or is it just for fun? Are you or were you happy doing it? What kind of fencing do you use? How do you go about killing them? Do you have any other thoughts on it?

We definitely have a coyote issue here. Right now, I like them because they keep the rabbit and ground hog population down, at least I think they do. If it eventually becomes an issue I'll start dispatching them - via trapping or .30-06 or both.

 

[Ducttape]

1. Two recent Supreme Court decisions (District of Columbia vs. Heller and McDonald vs. City of Chicago) assert an individual's right to bear arms.

2. Read that article and others. I didn't see many violations of the 3rd amendment, and those that were clearly legitimate (quartering troops in the Aleutian islanders homes during WW2 and FDR's Japanese concentration camps for example), did not get prosecuted under the 3rd amendment and instead were given a one time cash payment as an apology.

3. Fair enough, I appreciate the rabbit hole this brought me through. To clarify though, in a Criminal case the jury cannot assume that pleading the 5th infers guilt. In a Civil case a jury can only infer guilt from pleading the 5th if the judge instructs them to. Even so, this is highly variable and not always the case.

Taking the Fifth in a Civil Context

In civil disputes — including bankruptcy litigation — it is not uncommon for questions to arise about a client’s potential exposure to criminal liability, whether the client is a party or a witness. Civil litigators must therefore understand the role of the Fifth Amendment privilege against...

www.lanepowell.com

4. Opinions differ.

5. I don't think you posted the link you wanted to, but I read the Darby decision. It states that the 10th amendment wasn't violated by the FLSA because it related to interstate commerce, which is an enumerated power of the Federal government in the Constitution.

Those 2 cases overrode precedence regarding the individual right to own guns.

Scalia, the author of majority opinion on Heller noted that these rights are not unlimited and restrictions can be placed. Which is counter to NRA position and that of the Republican legislators they have bought out.

 

[Candidate2017]

this is no push or call to action to limit gun deaths related to hardened criminals. hardened criminals are not the ones committing sensational mass shootings.

i believe most of the gun regulations being discussed are to limit mass murders of people and in places of vulnerability - schools, churches, stores.

look at the shootings that have sparked the greatest fear - Parkland, Newtown, Uvalde, Columbine. schoolchildren, killed by an "adult" less than 21 years of age with semi-automatic weapons.

It's nothing but fear mongering. Mass school/church/etc shootings are super rare. Which is why you can name all the schools that had mass shootings but not all the people who were shot last weekend in your big city.

We've all spent decades in schools, churches, grocery stores, concerts, etc with little risk of getting shot. I can't say the same if we decided to spend decades hanging out on random street corners of the average US big city. Or, you know, decline to write more opioids for chronic back pain patients like the Oklahoma orthopod.

BTW your chart shows murders by nonfirearm methods does exceed murders by firearms.

 

[Ducttape]

It's nothing but fear mongering. Mass school/church/etc shootings are super rare. Which is why you can name all the schools that had mass shootings but not all the people who were shot last weekend in your big city.

We've all spent decades in schools, churches, grocery stores, concerts, etc with little risk of getting shot. I can't say the same if we decided to spend decades hanging out on random street corners of the average US big city. Or, you know, decline to write more opioids for chronic back pain patients like the Oklahoma orthopod.

BTW your chart shows murders by nonfirearm methods does exceed murders by firearms.

there is a rarity and there is also fear mongering, but i would argue that this is valid because it is an issue that extends beyond the "usual" gun culture in America.


one - i may choose to hang out at random street corners and get shot. or i may not (unless i am growing up there, but that is a completely different discussion that does involve race). schoolkids arent given that choice. we view these places as safe areas, and they should be.

two -as an adult hanging out on one of these street corners, i may choose to arm myself. schoolkids cannot and should not.

three - weapons used on street corners are primarily handguns, not assault rifles that are more powerful and potentially faster in firing.



adults shooting themselves up is a separate level than a crazed young male carrying ARs and shooting up a school.

should there be controls on handguns? yes, but again, a separate topic.

Or, you know, decline to write more opioids for chronic back pain patients like the Oklahoma orthopod.

you clearly are new on this board or you have not read any of my posts regarding opioids.

i have stated multiple times that we should not start opioids for chronic noncancer pain.

BTW your chart shows murders by nonfirearm methods does exceed murders by firearms.

now i know you are trolling.

go ahead, add up all the murders that include guns (ie handguns, rifles, shotguns and other guns) in one group and the other causes in another and report back the numbers.

oh i can see the post now: "oh but a handgun is not a firearm! See?! Gotcha!"
NRA-ILA definition:

• Firearm
  A rifle, shotgun or handgun using gunpowder as a propellant. By federal definition, under the 1968 Gun Control Act, antiques are excepted. Under the National Firearms Act, the word designates machine guns, etc. Airguns are not firearms.

 

[Aether2000]

Anyone treating patients that have an iatrogenic opioid dependence is at risk to be blown away. "War Games" taught us: "The only winning move is not to play".

 

[Disciple]

Those 2 cases overrode precedence regarding the individual right to own guns.

Scalia, the author of majority opinion on Heller noted that these rights are not unlimited and restrictions can be placed. Which is counter to NRA position and that of the Republican legislators they have bought out.

Ducttape,

You pushing for public safety is admirable,

but remember when I stated that your proposed solutions were unconstitutional?

U.S. Supreme Court expands gun rights, strikes down New York law

The Supreme Court on Thursday declared for the first time that the U.S. Constitution protects an individual's right to carry a handgun in public for self-defense, handing a landmark victory to gun rights advocates in a nation deeply divided over how to address firearms violence.

www.reuters.com

 

[Doctodd]

there is a rarity and there is also fear mongering, but i would argue that this is valid because it is an issue that extends beyond the "usual" gun culture in America.


one - i may choose to hang out at random street corners and get shot. or i may not (unless i am growing up there, but that is a completely different discussion that does involve race). schoolkids arent given that choice. we view these places as safe areas, and they should be.

two -as an adult hanging out on one of these street corners, i may choose to arm myself. schoolkids cannot and should not.

three - weapons used on street corners are primarily handguns, not assault rifles that are more powerful and potentially faster in firing.



adults shooting themselves up is a separate level than a crazed young male carrying ARs and shooting up a school.

should there be controls on handguns? yes, but again, a separate topic.

you clearly are new on this board or you have not read any of my posts regarding opioids.

i have stated multiple times that we should not start opioids for chronic noncancer pain.


now i know you are trolling.

go ahead, add up all the murders that include guns (ie handguns, rifles, shotguns and other guns) in one group and the other causes in another and report back the numbers.

oh i can see the post now: "oh but a handgun is not a firearm! See?! Gotcha!"
NRA-ILA definition:

Don’t forget to reclassify suicides by gun separately

 

[Ducttape]

Ducttape,

You pushing for public safety is admirable,

but remember when I stated that your proposed solutions were unconstitutional?

U.S. Supreme Court expands gun rights, strikes down New York law

The Supreme Court on Thursday declared for the first time that the U.S. Constitution protects an individual's right to carry a handgun in public for self-defense, handing a landmark victory to gun rights advocates in a nation deeply divided over how to address firearms violence.

www.reuters.com

yet Alito specifically states that gun restrictions may be put in place for public safety.

That is all we decide.... Our holding decides nothing about who may lawfully possess a firearm or the requirements that must be met to buy a gun.

also, Kavanaugh and even Thomas:

Kavanaugh said those states could continue to restrict licenses only if the licensing regimes are centered on similar requirements found in the other 43 states.

although they both make a point that any such delays may not be unreasonable (such as exhorbitant fees or long wait times).

and Roberts:

Chief Justice John Roberts sided in a concurrence to Kavanaugh's statement, arguing that his interpretation of "shall issue" regime rules is entirely constitutional as long as it is "based on objective criteria."

NYS gun laws were apparently a "may issue" - the injured party had to tell why they felt they needed concealed carry.

Retiring Breyer and Alito spar over ideological lines in Supreme Court gun ruling

Justice Stephen Breyer's mention of mass shootings across the United States prompted a scathing rebuttal from Justice Samuel Alito over the Supreme Court opinion released Thursday that overturned a New York gun restriction law for violating the Second Amendment.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Bruen deep dive: Does Kavanaugh's concurrence keep hope alive for gun control activists?

That's the claim of one gun ban fan, but what does the evidence actually show?

bearingarms.com

to be specific, the article makes the point that there will be very few restrictions, but there can be some reasonable delays to everyone buying a gun. except maybe a felon here or there.