ABFM & ABIM Critical Care Cosponsorship?

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FP-anesthesia but no CRNAs. That's the right way to do it.

Hey now.

There's plenty of room, and need, for both and in different ways. No need to pull up the ladder.

Speaking from experience having been the anesthetist for most of my own OR cases abroad, I would've loved the help of a well versed nurse or anyone. It's not as large of a logical extension to the US as you think.
 
FP-anesthesia but no CRNAs. That's the right way to do it.
I’m actually doing a 1 year gen surg/anes fellowship right now so I can be both the surgeon and anes during my cases while I simultaneously manage their hypertension and diabetes. I can control their BP fairly decently while they are on the vent too.
 
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I’m actually doing a 1 year gen surg/anes fellowship right now so I can be both the surgeon and anes during my cases while I simultaneously manage their hypertension and diabetes. I can control their BP fairly decently while they are on the vent too.

Yes we should have nurses doing anesthesia independently instead of doctors trained in anesthesia.
 
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I am not really against fm training or working in whatever setting they please, but the arrogance of some of you guys is just as astounding as that of the mid levels you criticize. Apparently unopposed fm training is all that’s needed to practice in any field of medicine.

I’m em trained. I’m sure I could “run” a clinic and I’m equally sure my medication choices would be suboptimal. Over time and with dedication I could probably learn to do it as well as anyone.

But I’d leave a trail of corpses and poorly managed conditions along the way.

If you’ve been “running” and icu or ed without significant directed training then you’ll do the same, and you’re delusional if you think otherwise.

The midlevel issue is obviously problematic, but it is also separate. Lowering our standards because they did doesn’t make sense.

But I’ll leave you to complete your anesthesia, em, Nsgry icu Peds cardiac extension training, since apparently otherwise I’m a shill.
 
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I am not really against fm training or working in whatever setting they please, but the arrogance of some of you guys is just as astounding as that of the mid levels you criticize. Apparently unopposed fm training is all that’s needed to practice in any field of medicine.

I’m em trained. I’m sure I could “run” a clinic and I’m equally sure my medication choices would be suboptimal. Over time and with dedication I could probably learn to do it as well as anyone.

But I’d leave a trail of corpses and poorly managed conditions along the way.

If you’ve been “running” and icu or ed without significant directed training then you’ll do the same, and you’re delusional if you think otherwise.

The midlevel issue is obviously problematic, but it is also separate. Lowering our standards because they did doesn’t make sense.

But I’ll leave you to complete your anesthesia, em, Nsgry icu Peds cardiac extension training, since apparently otherwise I’m a shill.
Blah blah blah. I work in the ED and ABEM, CCM docs mismanage pts all the time! I don't care what kind of training you have but if you're an idiot, then you're just an ABEM boarded idiot. Your training does not equate to good clinical skills and judgement. Many of the best docs I've worked with are very capable FM docs who treat pts in a variety of settings that many would not consider within scope of FM (surgical OB, open ICU, rural ED, urban inpatient wards).

This week, I have taken so many sign outs from ABEM docs who have misdiagnosed, mismanaged pts who would have DIED if I carried out or went along their idiotic plans and diagnoses.

ABEM docs do not own ED practice nor are they the only good ED docs around
 
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Blah blah blah. I work in the ED and ABEM, CCM docs mismanage pts all the time! I don't care what kind of training you have but if you're an idiot, then you're just an ABEM boarded idiot. Your training does not equate to good clinical skills and judgement. Many of the best docs I've worked with are very capable FM docs who treat pts in a variety of settings that many would not consider within scope of FM (surgical OB, open ICU, rural ED, urban inpatient wards).

This week, I have taken so many sign outs from ABEM docs who have misdiagnosed, mismanaged pts who would have DIED if I carried out or went along their idiotic plans and diagnoses.

ABEM docs do not own ED practice nor are they the only good ED docs around
The goal standard for the ED is EM physicians...

Don't be like NP who use the: "There are bad MD and bad NP bs"
 
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The goal standard for the ED is EM physicians...

Don't be like NP who use the: "There are bad MD and bad NP bs"
I think my argument was that FM-anesthesia trained folks (which literally are the ONLY alternative to anesthesiologists in Canada) obviously work. CRNAs don't exist in Canada.
 
I think my argument was that FM-anesthesia trained folks (which literally are the ONLY alternative to anesthesiologists in Canada) obviously work. CRNAs don't exist in Canada.
I was replying to the other poster about mismanagement of EM docs.
 
I was replying to the other poster about mismanagement of EM docs.
Right, I just meant my argument was on a separate note and it diverted the convo.

I do strongly disagree that someone who is running an ICU for a long time and is a physician is suddenly not qualified because they didn't do a fellowship.
 
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Right, I just meant my argument was on a separate note and it diverted the convo.

I do strongly disagree that someone who is running an ICU for a long time and is a physician is suddenly not qualified because they didn't do a fellowship.
I get transfers on a regular basis and see ****ty management constantly. Just because someone has been doing something for a long time, potentially poorly/incorrectly, doesn’t mean they are qualified to do it.
 
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Oh lord!

Stop the infighting. This is what we are fighting now.



icon_4_-_premed.png

Myth: Anesthesiologists have twice the education of CRNAs.

Fact:
Not healthcare education. Anesthesiologists’ healthcare education includes medical school and their anesthesiology residency (8 years). CRNAs’ healthcare education includes nursing school, critical care nursing experience, and their nurse anesthesiology program (up to 8 ½ years total).

Did you know? Prior to medical school, anesthesiologists attain a four-year nonhealthcare undergraduate degree impressively labeled “pre-med.” However, this bachelor’s degree is a four-year nonhealthcare degree that does not prepare them to be an anesthesia provider. After graduation, both anesthesiologists and CRNAs can pursue additional years of education in their specialty, such as through fellowships.

This thread isn’t about that.
 
I get transfers on a regular basis and see ****ty management constantly. Just because someone has been doing something for a long time, potentially poorly/incorrectly, doesn’t mean they are qualified to do it.
Still unrelated to my point that FM trained in anesthesia (like in our bordering country) is a much better choice than CRNAs. It keeps the practice of medicine to doctors.
 
Still unrelated to my point that FM trained in anesthesia (like in our bordering country) is a much better choice than CRNAs. It keeps the practice of medicine to doctors.
Right, I just meant my argument was on a separate note and it diverted the convo.

I do strongly disagree that someone who is running an ICU for a long time and is a physician is suddenly not qualified because they didn't do a fellowship.

:shrug:
 
Blah blah blah. I work in the ED and ABEM, CCM docs mismanage pts all the time! I don't care what kind of training you have but if you're an idiot, then you're just an ABEM boarded idiot. Your training does not equate to good clinical skills and judgement. Many of the best docs I've worked with are very capable FM docs who treat pts in a variety of settings that many would not consider within scope of FM (surgical OB, open ICU, rural ED, urban inpatient wards).

This week, I have taken so many sign outs from ABEM docs who have misdiagnosed, mismanaged pts who would have DIED if I carried out or went along their idiotic plans and diagnoses.

ABEM docs do not own ED practice nor are they the only good ED docs around

Ok bud. I guess I should tell you about my unverifiable clinic patients I saved from gross mismanagement by my fm Im colleagues.

Gonna take a wild guess and say you admitted asymptomatic htn on nicardipine.

I have friends in fm who work in the ed. They’re great after several decades of practice. They’d also be the first to tell you their training didn’t prep em for the ed, and to do ed you should do a residency in it.

If you think doing a tenth of the ed time and a third of the icu time somehow makes you more prepared for the ed, you should check you have more than one palmar crease.
 
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