Abortion providers charged with murder

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Whats your beef with steaks? I so punnyyy.

Dont like the taste? Dont like the sat fats and cholesterol?

The taste is actually ok, I'm just not a huge fan of that juicy, chewy texture. I guess that's why I like chicken since it's a little more... fibrous? Not sure what the right word is.

I also like beef - I love hamburgers for example. Just something about steaks doesn't work for me.

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The taste is actually ok, I'm just not a huge fan of that juicy, chewy texture. I guess that's why I like chicken since it's a little more... fibrous? Not sure what the right word is.

I also like beef - I love hamburgers for example. Just something about steaks doesn't work for me.

You just need some SoonerFromTexas steaks. I hate restaurant steaks. I guess I forgive you if you eat chicken. A vegetarian from Texas just wouldn't be right (kidding).
 
Some women aren't ready to be mothers and if they want to get a late-term abortion, more power to them. A child's early success in life rests largely with how dedicated and passionate her/his parents are. If the mother is unmarried, doesn't have the time to rear a child on her own, and isn't making a reasonable income, there is absolutely no reason why she should have a baby she can't dedicate her all to.

I agree. What better way to ensure a child's early success in life than killing them, am I right?
 
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I agree. What better way to ensure a child's early success in life than killing them, am I right?
I direct you here, to show not everyone believes life begins at conception.
abortion.jpg



I also direct you here
v15939_internet%20argument.jpg

In hopes that you realize arguing about this point in this forum is pointless. No one here is going to change their mind on the issue.
 
I direct you here, to show not everyone believes life begins at conception.
In hopes that you realize arguing about this point in this forum is pointless. No one here is going to change their mind on the issue.

Generally, people post on the internet for amusement, not because it is a forum for intelligent debates about sensitive political issues. I honestly thought everybody knew that.
 
Generally, people post on the internet for amusement, not because it is a forum for intelligent debates about sensitive political issues. I honestly thought everybody knew that.

Yes :)

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the above image would most probably fall under emergency contraception. The article is about the abortion of a 21 week fetus, which would probably look more like this.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the above image would most probably fall under emergency contraception. The article is about the abortion of a 21 week fetus, which would probably look more like this.

If life begins at conception, it's a distinction without a difference. In fact, depicting the very moment of conception is more accurate; after all, you take away that little sperm, no soul. Sperm's there, soul's there. No small matter!
 
If life begins at conception, it's a distinction without a difference. In fact, depicting the very moment of conception is more accurate; after all, you take away that little sperm, no soul. Sperm's there, soul's there. No small matter!
1. I don't know how what you wrote makes sense to you.
2. Most people would agree that a 21 week old fetus looks much more like a person than a fertilized egg.
 
These are incredibly poor reasons to tell a woman she cannot keep her baby. I was raised by a poor single mother and came out just fine thank you. Maturity and love overcome a lot. As for not having time--please note that as I believe it was Clinton said, it takes a village to rasie a child. Even a married homemaker with a rich husband (and I know a few) rely heavily on extended family.

That is not true. I am a mother and I am married. We are not rich, we are military. We do not rely on any extended family. We move every 2-3 years and at this point we don't live in the United States. Once we are back in the U.S, we still will not be living in the same state as my mother. He does not have extended family (long story, no family, leave it at that), the only family I really have is my mother. So some people may rely on extended family for help, but not everyone. We rely on eachother and we are a very united team and very cohesive because of it.

In terms of abortion, it is the woman's choice. That "doctor" was arrested for good reason, sounds very shady, but for reasons other than performing abortions. Although I do think abortions should be early on within the pregnancy when possible.

I love that picture of the egg btw
 
The taste is actually ok, I'm just not a huge fan of that juicy, chewy texture. I guess that's why I like chicken since it's a little more... fibrous? Not sure what the right word is.

I also like beef - I love hamburgers for example. Just something about steaks doesn't work for me.

I just don't know what to say....steaks are amazing. My favorite food is probably a medium rare steak with lots of mushrooms. I looove mushrooms. I would attempt to change your opinion if I knew you personally and make the best freaking steak you could imagine haha. anyways...don't want to take over the forum with steak discussion!
 
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If life begins at conception, it's a distinction without a difference. In fact, depicting the very moment of conception is more accurate; after all, you take away that little sperm, no soul. Sperm's there, soul's there. No small matter!

What's a soul? I've seen it on tv portrayed as a little cloud thing that holds a consciousness, but in the wake of modern neuroscience, that doesn't make much sense. So what is it exaclty, and how does it get there? Given the end of your post, does sperm carry souls?
 
What's a soul? I've seen it on tv portrayed as a little cloud thing that holds a consciousness, but in the wake of modern neuroscience, that doesn't make much sense. So what is it exaclty, and how does it get there? Given the end of your post, does sperm carry souls?

Obviously! Don't you know our modern 17th century science?!!? A sperm contains a miniature human that enters an egg and becomes a bigger human! Know your outdated views of the universe!
 
I just don't know what to say....steaks are amazing. My favorite food is probably a medium rare steak with lots of mushrooms. I looove mushrooms. I would attempt to change your opinion if I knew you personally and make the best freaking steak you could imagine haha. anyways...don't want to take over the forum with steak discussion!

My parents got me a smoker 4 or 5 years ago and it totally changed my life. Nothing like sitting on my deck studying sippin brews while tending to my meats in the smoker. After 8+ hours at 200 degrees pretty much all meat just falls apart.

I suggest you snag yourself a smoker at some point in the future. Ive been smoking the thanksgiving turkey for 3 years in a row now, and its revolutionized thanksgiving for my family! lol
 
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Also kind of looks like a human being but not considered "alive".

The poster's whole argument was that an egg doesn't look like a person, therefore it obviously isn't, and someone else pointed out that a 21-week old fetus (which is what we are talking about) does look like a person. Personally, I don't understand how a 21-week old fetus would not be considered a person. It's viable, it has a human brain, human anatomy, human DNA...it's human.

Ironically, the law considers in many cases that a fetus is a person. If someone in a criminal activity accidently kills a fetus (for example, a robber violently pushing aside a pregnant woman), he can be charged with murder. So why should the accidental killing of a fetus be considered murder, but not the intentional killing of a fetus?
 
If life begins at conception, it's a distinction without a difference. In fact, depicting the very moment of conception is more accurate; after all, you take away that little sperm, no soul. Sperm's there, soul's there. No small matter!
You can never convince me that not allowing this ->
Fertilized-egg-Mississippi.jpg


to embed itself into the uterine wall is the same as aborting her->
5-21wks.jpg
 
1. SBB, I like you.
2. Every time we have an abortion thread people spout off with the "just use birth control" line like all the methods are 100% effective. I can't tell if it's more hilarious or infuriating.
3. I'm pretty sure if a woman has a late-term IUFD the standard procedure is to induce and birth the baby vaginally, but I'm not 100% sure about that.
4. Because I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet, according to a recent Guttmacher study, over half (61%) of women that terminate a pregnancy in this country already have children. Iiiiiiinteresting. http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl..._statistic_the_majority_of_women_who_ter.html

These are the kinds of stories Anne Baker hears daily across the little round table in her office at the St. Louis-area Hope Clinic for Women, where she has been counseling abortion seekers for 35 years. In 2008, the last year for which the clinic has available numbers, 62 percent of its patients were mothers. But Baker says the number of mothers coming in has swelled markedly since then, just as it did during the economic slowdown of the late '70s, when she was first starting out at the clinic. She has compiled a list of 25 reasons mothers commonly give her for not having another child. By far the No. 1 reason is a desire to protect the families they already have. Most of the time, this calculus is an economic one, though Baker has also noted a growing number of women like me, women who are "less apologetic than they used to be about saying they're a good mom and for them to continue to be a good mom, they choose to do it with one."

How irresponsible...
 
Here go these heterosexicals flaunting their lifestyle again.
 
Personally, I don't understand how a 21-week old fetus would not be considered a person. It's viable, it has a human brain, human anatomy, human DNA...it's human.

Ironically, the law considers in many cases that a fetus is a person. If someone in a criminal activity accidently kills a fetus (for example, a robber violently pushing aside a pregnant woman), he can be charged with murder. So why should the accidental killing of a fetus be considered murder, but not the intentional killing of a fetus?

A 21-week old fetus is hardly viable. Even today, when preemie care has become amazingly advanced, a 21 week old child has a very, very low chance of being viable outside of the womb. A quick Google query says only a few babies ever have survived at 21 weeks, and most were at 21 weeks six days (but that is splitting hairs.) According to August 23, 2010 issue of "Pediatrics," Dr. Barbara J. Stoll, a 22 week old only has a 6 percent chance of survival. More than 50% of 24-week old fetuses survive. According to The Guttmacher institute (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/ib14.html)(It's purported to be left-leaning, go ahead and bash it), published in 1997, only 0.08% of abortions occur past week 24. According to the CDC, only 1.4% of abortions occur after week 21. Different organizations have classified "late-term" in different ways. I personally believe the incidence of later gestational abortions, when life is viable, are very overblown by most pro-life groups. It just doesn't occur that often. Besides that, since 1997 many states have enacted late-term abortion bans. This should have driven down the post 21-week abortions down even further, depending on how the state defines "late-term abortion".

I didn't make state laws, I can't reconcile those with federal rulings. I think, personally, abortions should be outlawed starting after the second trimester begins and then the fetus can be considered "alive." However, the problem I see then becomes this then allows political fights over if abortion is illegal or not, extending into banning abortions totally. Which I absolutely do not agree with. According to Wikipedia( great, I know), 36 states already have made late-term abortions illegal. I am guessing many of those states also have laws stating that if another person (not the mom) kills an unborn fetus, it is murder. I don't have data on at what gestational age successful charges have been brought. Perhaps most when the fetus would be considered late-term, I don't know.

I don't think what the fetus look's like, at any point during gestation, has any bearing on if it is human or not. I define life in terms of viability, not some magical juice sperm has and not some other-wordly spirit imparted once the sperm enters the egg.
 
1. SBB, I like you.
2. Every time we have an abortion thread people spout off with the "just use birth control" line like all the methods are 100% effective. I can't tell if it's more hilarious or infuriating.
3. I'm pretty sure if a woman has a late-term IUFD the standard procedure is to induce and birth the baby vaginally, but I'm not 100% sure about that.
4. Because I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet, according to a recent Guttmacher study, over half (61%) of women that terminate a pregnancy in this country already have children. Iiiiiiinteresting. http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl..._statistic_the_majority_of_women_who_ter.html



How irresponsible...

To be fair, the failure rate of using condoms (16% failure rate) AND the pill (5% failure rate) in combination is pretty low (0.8%). I agree with the intent/heart of your statement, though.
 
To be fair, the failure rate of using condoms (16% failure rate) AND the pill (5% failure rate) in combination is pretty low (0.8%). I agree with the intent/heart of your statement, though.

What if you're in a long term relationship but aren't ready for children? Those .8% add up over the course of years.
 
What if you're in a long term relationship but aren't ready for children? Those .8% add up over the course of years.

I'm not saying it's not a valid argument, but many (and I'm not including Geek in this set of people) use that example as a prime reason for allowing abortions: the idea that many/most people getting abortions are responsible practitioners of birth control and, by a stroke of bad luck, happened to get pregnant by no fault of their own. That simply isn't the case (though there are people to whom that DOES happen).
 
I'm not saying it's not a valid argument, but many (and I'm not including Geek in this set of people) use that example as a prime reason for allowing abortions: the idea that many/most people getting abortions are responsible practitioners of birth control and, by a stroke of bad luck, happened to get pregnant by no fault of their own. That simply isn't the case (though there are people to whom that DOES happen).

Personally, the small chance that I could run into this unfortunate situation is enough reason for me to be pro-choice.
 
I'm not saying it's not a valid argument, but many (and I'm not including Geek in this set of people) use that example as a prime reason for allowing abortions: the idea that many/most people getting abortions are responsible practitioners of birth control and, by a stroke of bad luck, happened to get pregnant by no fault of their own. That simply isn't the case (though there are people to whom that DOES happen).
Isn't it? It may seem intuitive that it isn't, and I certainly wouldn't declare the opposite, but I'd still be hesitant to claim with any certainty what the primary cause of unwanted pregnancy is in regard to contraceptive use without seeing some solid figures.

I know in my personal experience (not using it as evidence, know it's just anecdotal) the two people I've known personally who've gotten pregnant unintentionally were a girl in my high school from a condom breaking, a friend in college whose gf didn't realize the medicine she took caused her birth control to not work and one friend whose ex-bf intentionally poked holes in his condoms to stop her from joining the army (yeah, crazy, I know...).

And if the failure rate is 0.8%, then after 90 times, there is >50% chance of failure, and in a long-term relationship (or not, lol) that can certainly be surpassed.
 
Especially when you consider just how many mysterious 'missed periods' are spontaneous early abortions. The notion that everyone is supposed to be their own ob/gyn-endocrinologist and be able to show in court that everything was perfect to justify their need for an abortion (which seems to be the logical conclusion of 'responsibility') is a non-starter.
 
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