About to sign a contract with the airforce

[Pendraegon]

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Just wondering guys, I know that there is alot of negativity about the AF on the board right now. Do you guys think that the situation has gotten so bad that they will need to make changes? I know it's impossible to predict but it seems like if the situation is bad enough it will eventually reach a breaking point and things will get turned around. Right now imo it seems like something is going to have to be change in civilian medicine, because of the increases in medical spending and the fact that the baby boomers haven't even hit the system full force. I'm kinda worried about what's going to happen with that because it seems like the current system isn't going to be sustainable under that load. Anyways I don't really know what career I want to go into yet, and I'm staring at about 300k in debt when my loans get capitalized at graduation, which I would really rather not have. Anyways just wondering what your thoughts are.

 

[island doc]

Just wondering guys, I know that there is alot of negativity about the AF on the board right now. Do you guys think that the situation has gotten so bad that they will need to make changes? I know it's impossible to predict but it seems like if the situation is bad enough it will eventually reach a breaking point and things will get turned around. Right now imo it seems like something is going to have to be change in civilian medicine, because of the increases in medical spending and the fact that the baby boomers haven't even hit the system full force. I'm kinda worried about what's going to happen with that because it seems like the current system isn't going to be sustainable under that load. Anyways I don't really know what career I want to go into yet, and I'm staring at about 300k in debt when my loans get capitalized at graduation, which I would really rather not have. Anyways just wondering what your thoughts are.

Wishful thinking on your part that conditions within the AFMS will improve as you surmise. Such improvement would require revolutionary operational changes and an overhaul of the entire system of healthcare delivery in the AF, along with fundamental social/cultural/economic changes, all of which will not occur, because there is not the political will to do so. Not to mention the fact that in order for improvement to occur senior leadership would first need to recognize the failures of the current system.

Having extensive experience in both AF and civilian healthcare, I can honestly say that for all it's faults the civilian healthcare system is far superior to that of the Air Force Medical Service (AFMS).

You certainly have your own free agency when it comes to which healthcare delivery system you choose to enter, but I strongly recommend that you give serious consideration to whether or not you really wish to enter a socialized system such as the AFMS. Especially a socialized system in disarray.

 

[Informer]

your thoughts on the future of AF medicine and about its current worries are legit. Regarding signing the AF contract, I honestly don't think you should do it.

1. You don't know what type of doc you want to become, there are a limited number of residency slots and some residencies/fellowships are not offered or nearly impossible to get.

2. You are concerned about 300k in debt. Please, oh please, do not join for the money. It's not worth it and you'll kick yourself after 7 years of active duty making much less than your civilian counterparts (depending on specialty)

I think the best route nowadays is FAP or joining in AFTER residency. This is much better because a. you OBSERVE any changes in military medicine rather than experience the rigors of a transition (if there is one), if the changes are for the better, you can reassess the situation at that time b. you won't be limited in your residency options c. you can taste civilian life; if you're offered a great job, there is no need to join the military unless you have an unrelenting desire to serve your country, work very long hours, time away from family, lower physician salary.

Good luck, let us know if you sign!

 

[USAFdoc]

Just wondering guys, I know that there is alot of negativity about the AF on the board right now. Do you guys think that the situation has gotten so bad that they will need to make changes? I know it's impossible to predict but it seems like if the situation is bad enough it will eventually reach a breaking point and things will get turned around. Right now imo it seems like something is going to have to be change in civilian medicine, because of the increases in medical spending and the fact that the baby boomers haven't even hit the system full force. I'm kinda worried about what's going to happen with that because it seems like the current system isn't going to be sustainable under that load. Anyways I don't really know what career I want to go into yet, and I'm staring at about 300k in debt when my loans get capitalized at graduation, which I would really rather not have. Anyways just wondering what your thoughts are.

I would say you have about a 95% of regretting your decision if you join the USAF, especially in primary care. Choose wisely. I concur with what Island doc said about USAF med as well. The same financial forces that have had a negative influence in some civilian markets are IN FULL BLOOM in the USAF. I know of no CONUS primary care clinics, except the Academy in COLORADO, that are not miserable places to be a Primary care doc.

Look before you leep, and if you leep into the USAF, I hope you can swim because the USAF will place lead weights on your ankles, pound your head, raise the water level, and look the other way.

good luck on your decision.

 

[Pendraegon]

Well... that's discouraging. If you do Fap or join after residency will they pay off your loans? It seemed to me that if I was going to join I would get the most benefit from joining now. Well I have about 2 weeks to make a decision... the recruiter will be mad if I don't accept the commision... but a couple hours of his wasted time isn't worth 7years of my life. Thanks for the advice.

 

[island doc]

Well... that's discouraging. If you do Fap or join after residency will they pay off your loans? It seemed to me that if I was going to join I would get the most benefit from joining now. Well I have about 2 weeks to make a decision... the recruiter will be mad if I don't accept the commision... but a couple hours of his wasted time isn't worth 7years of my life. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, the AF does have a loan repayment program for physicians who join after completion of residency in exchange for a service obligation. The FAP provides financial assistance to medical school graduates who are already matched into residency programs in exchange for a service obligation.

I was in your shoes once, exactly where you are. Were I to do it over again, I would not choose AFHPSP for many reasons, you can PM me if you wish to know them, because I have already detailed the reasons in other posts. Do I regret my decision to participate in the AFHPSP program? Yes. Will you regret it if you do? Yes. Thus, there is only one wise decision to make, and who cares what the recruiter thinks, it is not his life.

 

[AF HPSP]

a

 

[MS05']

In regards to an earlier statement about not being able to compare civilian verse AF pay in the medical field...what about going into the air force reserve? That way you can fulfil your commitment to the AF (the two weekends and weeks a month thing) and moonlight or have a completely separate career as an attending elsewhere (particularly in fields like EM)...

Does this sound like a feasible scenario? I'm giving serious thought to the USAF reserve, but have to admit the majority of posts on the military medicine forum are less than optimistic about life in the AF...

Any insights?

 

[USAFdoc]

In regards to an earlier statement about not being able to compare civilian verse AF pay in the medical field...what about going into the air force reserve? That way you can fulfil your commitment to the AF (the two weekends and weeks a month thing) and moonlight or have a completely separate career as an attending elsewhere (particularly in fields like EM)...

Does this sound like a feasible scenario? I'm giving serious thought to the USAF reserve, but have to admit the majority of posts on the military medicine forum are less than optimistic about life in the AF...

Any insights?

If you want to serve your country, no matter what, join now.
However,the "no matter what" part may end up bitin your behind, even in the USAF reserves. Are there some good commanders and quality clinics in the USAF??????????? Probably, but they are as rare as a winning lottery ticket. Join at your own risk, and don't be surprised if you scratch out a losing ticket.

 

[Croooz]

In regards to an earlier statement about not being able to compare civilian verse AF pay in the medical field...what about going into the air force reserve? That way you can fulfil your commitment to the AF (the two weekends and weeks a month thing) and moonlight or have a completely separate career as an attending elsewhere (particularly in fields like EM)...

Does this sound like a feasible scenario? I'm giving serious thought to the USAF reserve, but have to admit the majority of posts on the military medicine forum are less than optimistic about life in the AF...

Any insights?

This is probably a worse decision than joining active duty. At least on active duty you know you're a pawn but as a reservist you have this belief you are free....till you are activated, then you realize the truth.

I would say if thinking about the reserves the better choice would be the Air National Guard not the Air Force. However you have to accept the fact that you can and more than likely will be activated. Depending on what your specialty will be it could also be a financial drain when you get activated.

It sounds like what is typical you would be joining for all the wrong reasons. $300k in debt is not that big of a deal. Right now it might seem like a big deal but once you've made some money and are older and wiser you will realize how much of a mistake a decision made as a 20 something year old has cost you.

 

[Homunculus]

the recruiter will be mad if I don't accept the commision... but a couple hours of his wasted time isn't worth 7years of my life.

definitely. if there is ever a time to make a cold, calculating, logical, emotionless decision it's with something like this. don'et let him guilt you into anything you aren't 100% sure you want.

--your friendly neighborhood vulcan caveman

 

[militarymd]

your thoughts on the future of AF medicine and about its current worries are legit. Regarding signing the AF contract, I honestly don't think you should do it.

1. You don't know what type of doc you want to become, there are a limited number of residency slots and some residencies/fellowships are not offered or nearly impossible to get.

2. You are concerned about 300k in debt. Please, oh please, do not join for the money. It's not worth it and you'll kick yourself after 7 years of active duty making much less than your civilian counterparts (depending on specialty)

I think the best route nowadays is FAP or joining in AFTER residency. This is much better because a. you OBSERVE any changes in military medicine rather than experience the rigors of a transition (if there is one), if the changes are for the better, you can reassess the situation at that time b. you won't be limited in your residency options c. you can taste civilian life; if you're offered a great job, there is no need to join the military unless you have an unrelenting desire to serve your country, work very long hours, time away from family, lower physician salary.

Good luck, let us know if you sign!

The Informer has given very good advice. I would listen to him/her.

 

[island doc]

In regards to an earlier statement about not being able to compare civilian verse AF pay in the medical field...what about going into the air force reserve? That way you can fulfil your commitment to the AF (the two weekends and weeks a month thing) and moonlight or have a completely separate career as an attending elsewhere (particularly in fields like EM)...

Does this sound like a feasible scenario? I'm giving serious thought to the USAF reserve, but have to admit the majority of posts on the military medicine forum are less than optimistic about life in the AF...

Any insights?

One of the physicians in our group who is also a military reservist, just recently returned from a one year activation/deployment. It placed his family into such a financial hardship, that monetary donations have been solicited to help them out, and even worse by the time he got back he had no practice left. All his patients were gone, had left to find another doctor, so now he is having to go to a new office/practice and start all over from scratch rebuilding everything that had taken years to develop. Still want to be a reservist????