Abroad by choice?

[devo213]

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Are there any programs that regularly accept Americans for the study of medicine that aren't considered "backup" schools? I'm a student at an American college and have somehow kept up a 4.0 gpa so far and there aren't any indications that I'm going to totally fudge the MCATs, but I have traveled a bit and would love to study abroad. I know it's an uphill battle for FMGs from what i've read here, but are there any real thriving academic medical centers abroad (preferably English speaking) that offer a great cultural experience and a great medical education? i.e. a place where someone wouldn't refer me to a psychologist if I went to it instead of an american school. I guess the word Oxford as well as the Irish schools comes to mind but i'm sure there are others. Thanks!

 

[Vindaloo]

check your inbox -- i sent you a PM.

 

[doc05]

Originally posted by devo213
Are there any programs that regularly accept Americans for the study of medicine that aren't considered "backup" schools? I'm a student at an American college and have somehow kept up a 4.0 gpa so far and there aren't any indications that I'm going to totally fudge the MCATs, but I have traveled a bit and would love to study abroad. I know it's an uphill battle for FMGs from what i've read here, but are there any real thriving academic medical centers abroad (preferably English speaking) that offer a great cultural experience and a great medical education? i.e. a place where someone wouldn't refer me to a psychologist if I went to it instead of an american school. I guess the word Oxford as well as the Irish schools comes to mind but i'm sure there are others. Thanks!

I'm sorry to say but studying abroad is typically a last-resort thing for med school applicants. I suggest taking some time off for travel if that's what you're into, but staying in the U.S. for med school. Being an IMG makes things significantly more difficult for you. You can always do international electives during your clinical years (typically 1-2 months in length).

good luck

 

[leorl]

Yeah, the UK, Irish and Aussie schools would be great for someone like you. I think there might be Israeli schools that would suit the purpose too, and wouldn't really be considered backup schools, but I'm not sure if you'd want to travel there at this moment, given the political climate. You'd pretty much want to stick with western european countries (English speaking) for more "security."

I was in your same position. Had decent scores and everything, but felt I wanted a bit more out of life at the moment than staying in the US and plodding through school. I wanted to travel, wanted to actually live life instead of being constrained by school, fellow students, inability to carry on with my hobbies, etc. Here, I still have to learn the same stuff but it's some place new and exciting, a neat culture and awesome friends, time to study and do all my extracurriculars too, etc etc etc. I didn't even bother applying to US schools actually, because if I got in here, I'd have turned them down anyway.

Sound stupid? maybe. Everyone who comes here does have to weigh the pros and cons. It is more work, having to organize US electives, study ourselves for the boards, etc. But in my opinion, it's completely worth it for the chance to live outside the US for awhile. Someone mentioned that you'll be able to do international rotations. While that's true, it's Totally not the same as getting to live in another country for awhile and become integrated into that culture.

i'm really happy with my decision. There are people here who came here because they didn't get in other places. But there are plenty of north americans here who chose to come for the same reasons you're looking to study abroad, so don't let fear of FMG stigma from ignorant people stop you.

 

[skypilot]

Leorl is right on the money. Stick with the Irish, Australian, United Kingdom or Canada and you won't go wrong.

You only might have a slightly tougher time landing the most competitive residencies.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Interestingly, I made the same decision as leorl did (as did another one of my classmates).

The vast majority of the derision I received was from US pre-meds and med students who could NOT comprehend the decision or even fathom that an education outside of the US could be on par (or aghast...perhaps even better). I had the fortunate position to be working in medical education at the time, and with some pretty high powered people (ie, we're talking UCSF, Hopkins) - they all agreed that while the road back might be more difficult, all else being equal, I would have the advantage of being "intriguing" and the wonderful opportunity of living abroad.

It is NOT the choice for everyone, or even most people. You must realize that there will be stigma - regardless of where you go. MOST students go abroad because they can't get into the US and it will be assumed that you are in the same boat. You must realize that living abroad is not the same as the US - nor should it be. You must be the type of person who is willing to experience and embrace the different, even if it turns out that the US way is the best way for you (while I enjoyed my time abroad, this will always be home for me and I prefer it on many levels).

 

[skypilot]

Kimberly do you feel the stigma is still with you as a resident and beyond or was it just a factor in applying for residency?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Skypilot...

I've never felt much stigma - although to be certain there were times when it was apparent while applying (ie, programs that required me to have an ECFMG certificate to even apply, let alone start; programs that wouldn't download anything else from my ERAS file once they saw I was an IMG, etc.). Frankly, I don't think most people here know where I went to school, or if they did, usually don't pay much attention to it. Those that know are either interested in the experience, say it doesn't "count" because Australia isn't a "real" foreign school (ie, like the Caribbean presumably is), or tease me about going to some "fly by night" school.

Maybe I'm just oblivious to it!

 

[TexasGuy41]

There are great points of view presented on this thread for the original poster to consider. I might also add that there was a fantastic article in JAMA a while back about Irish medical schools. It fully explained just how difficult it can be to come back to the US from Ireland, so its definitely worth checking out...in the interest of seeing both sides of the coin.

I agree - UK, Aussie, Israel, and Ireland would be your best bet. Keep in mind that its great to live abroad and integrate yourself into a new culture - but at some point you have to actually sit down and study hardcore, because people will place their lives in your hands - so you should make sure the place you are studying is reputable and sound. If you went to med school abroad, had a great time, travelled to tons of cool places, met tons of interesting people - its all well and good, but you better know how to diagnose and treat someone. Irish grads have GREAT reps in a clinical setting, so you might seriously look into the Atlantic Bridge Program. Just google it and you'll find the site. Good luck! I give you props for going abroad!

 

[McGillGrad]

I have a choice between applying to McGill Medical School (which is by far one of the best medical schools in the world) and applying to Irish Medical Schools (which also carry tonnes of prestige). I will graduate at roughly the same time from both options, but I am making the choice to go to Irish medical school for one important reason. That reason is that the process of becoming a doctor is as important as actually being a doctor.

After our respective residencies, we will all carry the same title and will probably settle into our practises. The memories that we will have of medical school will become more and more cherished as time goes on. The more we had to struggle and adapt, the more enjoyable our medical careers will become.

If things come too easily, they will be taken for granted. I like a challenge (as should most people who strive to become a physician). You only live one life and if you take the easy way out then you are cheating yourself of priceless memories and experiences.

 

[Stephen Ewen]

Absolutely! Absolutely a thousand times over--even with schools where you will have a major cross-cultural experience in the developing world, or ones with great med edu yet significant sections of poverty. The University of the West Indies, both Trinidad and Jamaica should be added to one's list in this regard. So should ones where you can learn the language in process.

The affable, respectful, bi-cultural, bilingual, competent physician, who by the very process of their med edu has become somewhat of a medical anthropologist!--they will always find great slots if they market themselves right and to the right areas in the U.S.

 

[leorl]

Texas, I'd be really interested to read that article. If you can and have time, could you please find it and reference it, or give us a link?

McGill, that's fantastic. It's really cool to see people know what they want, know what they need and are confident enough to follow it through. It's a big step, but to give you some reassurance, there are tons of McGill grads here!

It is a load of fun, but we have to remember that it's not all play. So yes, at some point you just have to stick your butt to the seat and study.