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abused med student

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by intern in waiting, May 6, 2002.

  1. intern in waiting

    intern in waiting Junior Member

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    Now that the year is almost over I think we need a forum for venting our worst rotation experiences...
    As a naive 3rd year I was told it was part of my job description to get food for the entire staff (i.e. nurses residents)- not cafeteria food - food from a chinese food place about a 20 minute drive away. To make a long story short, I complained and none of the residents spoke to me for the rest of the rotation. God I love medical school!
     
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  3. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member

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    That's truly a shame. I remember "orienting" my med students on Day One [and also to break the ice :) ] by saying, "You will not be responsible for picking up my dry cleaning. You will not have to do my laundry. But you will be responsible for working hard and learning. Given that, we will do our part to teach you." Usually with that we got off to a flying start. Many of us "older residents" felt very strongly about not perpetuating a miserable system, even if it only affected our corner of the universe. It made for a more productive rotation all around for all concerned. Gee, I wonder why? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  4. Sevo

    Sevo Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by intern in waiting:
    <strong>Now that the year is almost over I think we need a forum for venting our worst rotation experiences...
    As a naive 3rd year I was told it was part of my job description to get food for the entire staff (i.e. nurses residents)- not cafeteria food - food from a chinese food place about a 20 minute drive away. To make a long story short, I complained and none of the residents spoke to me for the rest of the rotation. God I love medical school!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just the opposite. I frequently voluntereed to bring back food during OB call. The farther away, the better. Anything to escape the malignant atmosphere of L&D.
     
  5. Billie

    Billie An Oldie but a Goodie...

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dr_Cuts:
    <strong>I agree with Sevo. I too would much rather be at the Church's Fried Chicken drive-thru window in 5-below zero temps at 11pm in the middle of el barrio than in L&D... damn 2 hour notes...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">2 HOUR NOTES!!!??? What was incl in that novel? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

    Billie, nearing the end! (of this phase at least)
    (2.5 weeks left!!!) <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  6. Fah-Q

    Fah-Q Senior Member

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    My God, where the hell did you people go to school?
     
  7. dr. strangelove

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    man, that's a bunch of crap. i've never had to deal with anything like that, and actually my rotations couldn't be farther from that experience. i've actually been told that since i'm paying i shouldn't be doing any scut work and that i should just voice what i want to learn and do. i really haven't seen any of that at my school, which is in pac NW. i don't know how the east coast is, but things there seem more 'traditoinal' and 'formal'. any ideas on that?
     
  8. LaCirujana

    LaCirujana Smoking Gun

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    I was always more than happy to make the nightly food run while on my IM rotation at the VA (where you eat what the patients eat, unless you take matters into your own hands). But I never thought I was getting scutted-out, I liked getting out of that s***hole; the other med student and I had to arm wrestle to see who got to go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Plus I hated internal med, so I got out of bad food and a rotten rotation.

    Oh yeah, I'm in the west, so this isn't just an eastern phenomenon.
     
  9. Guitarzan the Jungle Man

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    Man, I must have had it great. We actually had and attending whip out his visa and buy the entire call staff for surgery (including the students) dinner from a great take-out place. He even drove to get it himself--and this was just some random night in early December.
    Great I am going soft already...
     
  10. Mad Scientist

    Mad Scientist Member

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    I certainly don't mind going and getting food for our call team -- I see that however bad we have it as med students they have it much worse as residents. Plus its a nice break from the hospital. Plus by tradition here the student who goes for the food gets his paid for (usually by the upper level).

    This is not to excuse bad behavior by the residents as mentioned by the original poster. If they want the benefit of our help with their work (we're paying, after all), then they should at least be civil.
     
  11. Ryo-Ohki

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    No excuses.

    We are only abused because we let it happen.
    Write to your senators.
    <a href="http://www.senate.gov/contacting/index.cfm" target="_blank">http://www.senate.gov/contacting/index.cfm</a>
     
  12. tedsadoc2002

    tedsadoc2002 Senior Member

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    I certainly must have been in paradise :) :) :) ! When I worked SICU, the trauma team asked me to take call with them. They could not have been kinder to me. They opened up their lounge for me to use and they even bought the students working with them that night (myself included) dinner. And this was in a county facility!

    I think that as long as it is not a personal imposition or risk to life and limb, students can do it (especially for the reasons mentioned, escaping malignant areas) but I think it is poor form to ostracize a student just because he/she did not want to go out and get food for everyone and his brother. Just my 0.02 cents.
     
  13. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    On my OB rotation, I volunteered to go get us the food to get out of the hospital and see the outside world for a while. My residents didn't demand that I do it and I don't think they would have reacted the way your residents did if I said I didn't want to. Thats not right.

    As for the 2 hour note, I believe Dr_Cuts was referring to the note you have to write every 2 hours for women who are in the active phase of labor, not notes that take 2 hours to write. These note were a killer overnight when I had to set my pager every 2 hours to wake me up so I could write them.
     
  14. saori

    saori Senior Member

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    Apparently this situation has crossed borders. In my rotations, residents on call with you expect you to "bring them something", when you get dinner for yourself. I can't tell you how many times my BF has had to bring food for not just lil' ol' me, but for a whole bunch of people (thankfully, chinese is really cheap and fabulously good, plus they serve tons!). He says that residents should get their own stuff (and in some instances they don't even pay) and not have an intern running errands for them.

    In some level I appreciate the food runs. It gives me a chance to get behind the wheel and de-stress. But, hey, that just may be because everything in the city is pretty much close by and I don't find it so much of a chore to buy food (at least not for myself and the other intern on call) :)
     
  15. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    I cannot imagine asking a medical student, or anyone else for that matter to leave the building to get food. If the team decides they want something and someone volunteers to go and get it, that's a different story - I too would jump at the chance to be driving around in my car outside of the hospital.

    If students stay late helping out, it seems only fair that the resident staff should not only not require them to bring in food, but if they go and get it, the residents should pay for the student's meal. I guess its different everywhere.
     
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  17. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    Yeah, our notes were every 4 hours before the active phase. You had to write them q2 during the latent phase? If so, that really sucks.
     
  18. Ralph Wiggum

    Ralph Wiggum Member

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    I got a free meal every time I was on call. It was something all the residents did. They often had extra money left over for meals that they were given each month and would always spend it on the students. If we were asked to get food outside of the hospital, it was always paid for by the resident. I always had great residents who were willing to teach and not make us do all the scutwork.
     
  19. Mary the Med Student

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    The most horrible thing any resident ever did to me was to throw used paper towels, tape and gauze at me "in jest" and then get super-pissed off when I threw unused wadded paper back at him.

    He was a total f*ckface.

    On food scut - I love food scut. I went out and got Indian take out for my team tonight. I saw sun!!! Very cool.

    -Mary
     
  20. saori

    saori Senior Member

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    Incredibly enough, although I'm on Neprho call tonight (only one transplant today, that's keeping us on our toes), I got out of doing the food-run! Good for me! My pockets can't take it anymore. <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  21. duffbaba

    duffbaba Junior Member

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    What is it about OB and food scut? I got scutted out to get food to for the team in sub zero weather wearing only scrubs. It was a thankless job.
     
  22. MOZ

    MOZ Member

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    i've heard the term scutwork being tossed around here, but i'm a little unclear as to what exactly it means. could someone define it for me? i'm only a lowly m1 so i'm still getting used to all the new terminology. thanks
     
  23. saori

    saori Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dr_Cuts:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MOZ:
    <strong>i've heard the term scutwork being tossed around here, but i'm a little unclear as to what exactly it means. could someone define it for me? i'm only a lowly m1 so i'm still getting used to all the new terminology. thanks</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well... o.k... but you didn't hear it from me...
    it's when senior level residents (occasionally even junior attendings), stressed out beyond the point of sanity, take an M3 to one of the hospital storage closets, and repeatedly beat and whip them with a foley catheter. The senior is said to be "scutting" the medical student. I know this sounds brutal, but the pain is largely numbed after the first few strikes... it's largely a hazing ritual... tradition if you will. My suggestion is to just place a wad of 4-by-4s in your mouth and bite down hard, and just think about the pot of gold of 150 grand a year for 70 hour work weeks that awaits you after residency... these thoughts will undoubtedly sooth your suffering. Good luck.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  24. intern in waiting

    intern in waiting Junior Member

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    Ok- so whats really funny is that in my original post I didn't say that I was on the ob service! How weird- it must really be an ob thang...also on that service (besides working 40 hours straight and then having to drive home 1 hour)there were 5 students- 4 students got stuck by residents during c-sections-I was the only one not stuck through shear vigilance and paranoia every time the resident had the suture. I hated ob with such a passion it's almost holy- I could probably start my own religion.
    :D
     
  25. H&P-Stat

    H&P-Stat Member

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    I once got paged by a resident at 2 am to perform a fecal disimpaction. Guess he felt it would be a good learning experience. It was... I learned the definition of scut. By the way, it's all in the DIP's.
     
  26. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    MAZ,

    Scutwork refers to menial errands and work that you are asked to do by residents in order to make their lives easier. True scut has no potential to teach you anything. Examples include running to radiology to gather films for the team, getting food for the team, running to get a chart that the resident forgot, etc. I really didn't have much of it my clinical years. I was lucky in that the residents that did ask me to do scut would often repay that with some teaching later on.
     
  27. Sevo

    Sevo Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Whisker Barrel Cortex:
    <strong>MAZ,

    Scutwork refers to menial errands and work that you are asked to do by residents in order to make their lives easier. True scut has no potential to teach you anything. Examples include running to radiology to gather films for the team, getting food for the team, running to get a chart that the resident forgot, etc. I really didn't have much of it my clinical years. I was lucky in that the residents that did ask me to do scut would often repay that with some teaching later on.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Scut isn't bad as long as you get something for it -- increased patient responsibility, teaching, et al.

    The problems start when the residents don't uphold their end of the implied quid pro quo and continue to lay on more scut without any sort of benefits. Likewise, medical students shouldn't expect to be spoon-fed medicine by residents without "helping out" the team.

    It's hard to be the third wheel on a medical or surgical team. Your responsibilities are often nebulous -- varying from resident to resident and from field to field -- and often your only true use is for those menial tasks. A medical student doesn't bring much more to a team beyond being an extra pair of hands.
     
  28. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire

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    I agree with the above, it should always be a give and take situation. However, in my experience, the students who get "abused" are usually those who ask for it. I've been amazed at the brazen attitudes of some of the third year students. I've had students refuse to work weekends, routinely show up late, purposely turn off pagers, refuse to do H&Ps, etc (most of my students have been great, there have just been a few who did all of the above). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

    Most people are just too busy to make time for a student with attitude. Also, some students make the mistake of thinking that if they show that they're a hard worker, they'll get dumped on, but in my experience (as both a student and intern) just the opposite is true. The harder you work, the more your interns/residents will teach you and the less scut they'll give you! :D
     
  29. Acro Yali

    Acro Yali Senior Member

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    I agree. I don't think anyone will go through the clinical years without doing some scut work. Live with it. But what I have found so far is that the harder you work, the less residents will ask you to do scut, and the more they will help you out, believe it or not. I think they know that you are doing a lot so in return, they help you out too. Besides, a good relationship with your "bosses" can't hurt too.
     
  30. MOZ

    MOZ Member

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    thanks for replying to my original question. sounds like scut can be good or bad depending on your point of view. i got another question for you all. how important is it to have call during clinical rotations? at our school there is only one hospital that has call (q4). i hear you see the most pathology but you also do a lot of scut. so i'm kinda on the fence on whether to do my rotations there.
     
  31. Whisker Barrel Cortex

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    MOZ,

    Some people might think I'm crazy for saying this, but I would recommend doing some overnight call as a medical student. First, you do learn a lot on these nights. Second, I think it is good to know what it is like and how you handle overnight call before you apply for residencies. I think this familiarity will also help when starting your residency.
     
  32. md03

    md03 Senior Member

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    WOW, I cannot imagine NOT taking overnight call. At my school, overnight call is REQUIRED in several rotations (medicine, surgery, OB, and Peds). When I learned that there are schools at which students do not take overnight call, I was surprised. Do you really want your first night of overnight call to be as an intern?

    I believe I have benefited greatly from taking overnight call. Many times the students don't wind up staying up all night, but can get a few hours of sleep (mostly because in all but surgery, the whole team is on call at the same time, so with 3-4 students per team, we rotate as new admissions come in). It was during peds call that I really started to learn to be efficient at writing H&P's, as it is not unusual for the service to be so busy that as soon as you get done writing one H&P, the resident has another patient to assign you.

    Some of the best pathology does come in at night. People tend to wait things out during the day and come to the ER at night. Most of the patients I picked up came in after 10 pm. I find it much easier to do my subsequent notes and presentations when I did the patient's H&P and was there for the intial treatment. (It's much harder to know a patient well when you are trying to get the information from other people's notes)

    Plus, I think it is very valuable to get used to staying up and being able to function. I can now go 32-36 hours with little to no sleep. Peds call tended to be the busiest. In surgery, we do 2 weeks of trauma call which is 24 hr on and 24 off, and on some days we had to do trauma clinic post call. Plus, some of the best opportunites to do procedures came during night or weekend call. (I did an amputation on a weekend call during surgery). Most of the deliveries I did during OB came during the wee hours of the morning, as did the OB pathology (like patients seizing in the evaluation area) I also sometimes spend some of my call time just going with the intern while they take care of all the little things that come up. I try to help them out a bit, like writing the orders, procedure note or script while they do other things (then all they have to do is sign) In return, they usually teach me tips and tricks that they learned the hard way.

    I believe I will be much better prepared to be an intern as a result of taking overnight call. I would recommend that anyone who goes to a school where overnight call is not requried try to find an opportunity to take at least one call overnight per rotation.
     
  33. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    I hate to say it, but I agree with the above poster. MY medical school and the one I'm doing residency at didn't/don't require overnight call for students. I think they missed out on a lot. When I was in school, and often the only one around on weekends and after hours, I got nearly ALL the OR cases going on, got to see lots of patients and learned heaps.

    And it IS true that you get used to the long hours the more you do them. I was exhausted the first few times I stayed up all night - I can eat call for breakfast *most* nights now (there are some nights when I'm inexplicably more tired than usual). I don't believe in running students ragged for the sake of letting them know what they're in for - but often times the majority of admissions come in after hours and I believe knowing what internship is like (regardless of the field) is beneficial as a student.
     
  34. patelakshar

    patelakshar Member

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    bump

    by the way what is H&Ps and q1, q2, q3, q4, etc...? Sorry to sound so naive...but i am a sophmore in high schooll...anyway great thread...anyone have any other experiences besides food? :)
     
  35. rirriri

    rirriri easy

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    im on call right now!!!! on IM!!! argggggh..

    i don't have **** to do, so i just spent the last 30 minutes talking to the parking attendant about the NBA.

    what a pile of poop. no admissions. all my patients are dying. and soon im gonna get kicked out of this computer lab.

    i feel like a dirty cat that was taken into a dirty home by a dirty little boy.

    cheers!
    rirriri
     
  36. womansurg

    womansurg it's a hard life...

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    C'mon now! You guys must have some better student abuse stories than just havin' to run to the take-out for dinner!

    When I was on gen surg, the psychotic chief resident took a dislike to my fellow student, who was this super smart, super decent guy who had basically honored on every rotation up to that point. She made his life living hell...constantly berating him, embarrassing him, belittling him, setting him up, tearing him down... Every scut job was his, every undesirable patient (smelly, puking drunks for example) went to him. It was horrible.

    He ended up filing a formal complaint against her, which did result in some official action in her file. And he also enlisted a group of friends to help send out bogus "stat trauma page to the ER" messages to her pager all night long on the nights he knew she was on call... ;)
     
  37. southerndoc

    southerndoc life is good
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    I've always considered food runs to be part of being a good team player. The medical student isn't required to be in the hospital at all times. The residents are. They aren't allowed to leave. When the team has been busy and couldn't eat dinner in the cafeteria, and it's now closed, then yea, I'm happy to go get food... for both my sake and the team's sake.

    What I can't stand is for someone to say "Oh yea, I'll be glad to get food" and then whine about it.

    If you don't want to make food runs, then quit being a whiner and tell the resident that you aren't going to do it. Don't pretend to like it and then bitch and moan about it the day after.

    Be a team player once in a while. It's not about purposefully scutting you. It's about being part of a team.
     
  38. rirriri

    rirriri easy

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    food runs are fine.

    but not when you are looking at stacks of gangstas standing at the drive thru, while you are sitting in your sedan with 7 cups of coke and 12 cheeseburgers in the middle of a snowstorm and being stared down like the last deer available to 1,283 deer hunters.

    obviously you didnt do your rotations in a *ghetto* like Dr. Cuts and I have.

    ahhh, the memories.
     
  39. RuralMedicine

    RuralMedicine Senior Member
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    I can see many sides to this issue. I was a medical student, and now I'm a resident at an university program where I have medical students. I did go to one of those medical schools where students took call and took overnight call. I hate to admit but some of my best learning experiences came at 1AM. I was encouraged to see patients as "my patients" and although I was always well supervised my attendings expected me to come up with a plan. I think this approach prepared me well for internship and residency. I offer many thanks to the attendings and residents who participated in my education.

    As a medical student I did feel like a member of the team. Like all team members I had strengths, weaknesses, responsibilities, and roles. Yes I was an information gatherer, but I was guided through the interpretation of my information and learned a lot in the process. Yes I did a lot of ABGs but how do you expect to insert an arterial line as an intern if you never do ABGs as a medical student. I actually did a few successful arterial lines as a medical student--but only after my staff had seen I was competent with ABGs (and in retrospect I'm sure the patients appreciated that).

    Now I'm a resident. I'm charged with leading a team, and teaching medical students. I try to encourage my students to become an active member of the team by seeing their patients as "their patients". I am there to guide and hopefully foresee the impending catastrophes. I've tried to maximize learning for the students through teaching moments and pearls on rounds and by assigning them specific topics to read about that relate to the care of their patients. My more enthusiastic students seem to enjoy this approach. Yes I do expect them to know all there is to know about their patients and we do sometimes rely on them to help with some of the more "scut" aspects like scheduling followup and procedures. However I have never assigned these tasks to a student unless they were following the patient. Also I have never asked a student to do something I would not do and will not do at least 20 or more times during our month together.

    As far as meals are concerned: if we are able to eat in the cafeteria (ie we don't have a coding patient that keeps us from making it to the cafeteria before it closes) we try to go as a group and the interns and I (I did this as an intern also) will subsidize the students meals out of what's left over on our meal allotment. Unfortunately frequently this is an impossibility and when things finally settle down the cafeteria is closed. At this point often the students will want to go out to procure food and I have asked them to pick up something for me and the rest of the team at times. In these instances I've always reimbursed them on the generous side for my meals. As a resident I've started the tradition of at least one call of the month treating the entire team to dinner from a local deli, sometimes this has required one of the students to collect the food for everyone but since it's my treat none of them have seemed to mind. As Geek Medic put it the housestaff can't leave the hospital for meals (my resident did leave once when I was an intern but he is no longer a resident at this institution for that reason) so if the students are leaving to get food I'm not sure that giving them money to pick up an extra sandwich is really that big a deal.
     
  40. southerndoc

    southerndoc life is good
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    Ghetto? Nope. I live in one of America's most gorgeous cities (I think it's ranked #2 or 3).

    There are areas that are high crime though. Lots of robberies, home invasions, shootings/stabbings, etc.
     
  41. Fah-Q

    Fah-Q Senior Member

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    My God, people in this forum think anything and everything can and should be ranked. What's worse...they actually think the rankings are accurate and useful.
     
  42. southerndoc

    southerndoc life is good
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    Fah-Q! No sense being jealous now.
     
  43. Teufelhunden

    Teufelhunden 1K Member
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    I'm curious...so what was it about this guy that elicited this abuse? Why did she "have it in" for him?
     
  44. womansurg

    womansurg it's a hard life...

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    I think it was because he was so low key and polite. This contrasted sharply with the ridiculous militant bravado which those berated residents had adopted in sheer defensive desperation.

    She just couldn't stand it that he seemed to hold onto a sense of self worth when everyone else was buckling under the abuse. He saw himself as a hardworking, bright person who was putting forth sincere and genuine effort, was doing good work, and deserved to be treated with simple human respect: a concept which simply didn't exist in that psychotic department. So she just kept piling it on, trying to break him.

    There were six of us going into general surgery that year, and not a single one of us ranked our own school (Ohio State). They ended up being the only university program in the country which failed to fill in the match that year.

    That was one severely pathological environment back then, and this woman was probably the worst of them all. I've heard that it's better now.
     
  45. Entei

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    I'm curious about the food runs too. What's so wrong with these hospitals that the take-out food guys refuse to deliver? :laugh:
     
  46. ckent

    ckent Banned
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    Well, you need to tip delivery drivers. Medical students on the other hand are a different story. Food runs used to be a problem in my surgery department too (why is it always surgery?). Apparently, they made a student or two go out for food when they were on call for shock trauma last year. Anyways, now the chairperson of general surgery told us all that if any of us students even agreed to go out and get food, not only would the asking party be in trouble but we would get in trouble for agreeing to do it too. That quickly put an end to that. I really like the chair of surgery here (Dr. Jarrell, wrote part of NMS Surgery), he was really nice to the students. Unfortunately, I hear that he will be leaving us next year.
     
  47. BPKurtz

    BPKurtz Heck Of A Guy

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    It is better now here at OSU. I haven't heard anything nearly as bad as what you described. Residents (in surgery or otherwise) tend to only get mean that I've seen/heard of when a student gets too big for his britches -- one could argue it's permissible to take him down a peg. If people complain about the residents on any rotation here, it's about OB. I was lucky with my OB residents being great, but the consensus seems to be "really unhappy people taking it out on their underlings." Maybe it's also a reaction to the "I hate this" attitude so many students take to OB.

    bpkurtz
     
  48. 8744

    8744 Guest

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    For the record, a manual disimpaction is not scutwork. Sure it's gross, but since it is medically necessary and the nurses won't do them somebody has to. Likewise, starting an IV or putting in a catheter as a third year student is not scutwork either.

    As for abuse from residents, you get abused as much as you are willing to take. The worst that can happen if you stand up to an abusive resident is that he can give you a bad evaluation. As long as you are a good student and not a perpetual whiner, one or two bad evaluations from an obscure resident in a giant hospital will have a minimal impact on your final grade.

    That being said, mostly you just have to suck it up. The best thing to do is to treat the abusive resident with detached coolness. I, for one, am not in the least perturbed if some foriegn resident with a bad accent asks me questions which I cannot answer. I just smile and say, "well, I just don't know," or give him an answer in a confident voice even if it's wrong. What's he going to do? Kick me out of medical school because I don't remember the clotting pathways? And If I ever am asked to do something which I don't want to or shouldn't have to do (which has never happened) I will refuse. The person who asks you to do something illegal or contrary to written school policy is the one who's ass will be flapping in the wind if you refuse and he foolishly makes an issue out of it.

    Do any of you who are not gunners really care if some jackass on a power trip likes you?

    Honestly, though, most of the residents at my school are pretty good people and try to teach us a little bit even if they are perpetually short of sleep and time. I don't mind making food runs for them at all. They ask politely, will usually "buy if I fly," and, as someone said, it gets you out of the hospital for a bit.
     
  49. ERMudPhud

    ERMudPhud Back for a visit

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    I remember a tyrannical surgery attending with the emotional maturity of a 3 year old who used to throw scalpels and didn't seem to care who they would hit.

    I also remember scrubbing on a peds urology case with a friend who was gay and then listening to the attending and resident make one blatantly homophobic joke after another until my friend and I walked out. It was a circ on a 3 year old so they didn't exactly need us there to hold retractors or anything.

    Finally, I remember being paged in the middle of the night to the OR only to find out that I was only there to laugh at the attendings lame jokes. There wasn't even room at the table for me to scrub in.
     
  50. Teufelhunden

    Teufelhunden 1K Member
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    Okay, now that's just plain, old ASSULT...easy one to handle...call the police and press charges. I'm serious, I wouldn't even take it up the hospital food chain...I'd go straight to the police.

    Last I checked, throwing a razor-sharp knife at someone is against the law.

    My God, where else on earth would this type of behavior be tolerated? I went through Marine Corps boot camp and never had knives thrown at me!?!?!

    God, everytime I start really considering surgery, I hear another horror story of some a**hole surgeon acting like, well...an a**hole.
     
  51. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    agree. people who throw scalpels need to stopo right NOW. It is dangerous.
     
  52. rubyness

    rubyness Senior Member

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    The other day I made the mistake of asking if I could eat lunch, and the resident was like sure-- hold on let me get a list together! He proceeded to give me a list of lunch orders from a whole group of people, several of whom weren't even working with us.

    Earlier that morning he forced the other med student to go get him breakfast at dunkin donuts.

    He made him buy something for himself (the student wasn't hungry and didn't want anything) so that the kid couldn't complain.

    Jeez.
     

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