Academic Probation, Institutional Action, AMCAS, help!!!!!!

[Greonis]

i think i need to jump in here before MissIntrigued has a nervous breakdown because of all the crap that is being hurled toward her....

i basically had the same situation except i made this mistake later in my college career (with a similar result) and took less time off before applying.

this will absolutely NOT keep you out of med school!!!

For the record I got five interviews, one acceptance so far and did not apply to any DO schools.

PM me if you want more help.

Now to the rest of you who posted in this thread....i GUARANTEE that if you were in this situation you would've absolutely tried to sweep this under the rug if you could. It's easy to lecture other people about the "right thing" but if it was your dream and your career on the line i'm absolutely sure you would see things differently. also...remember: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

the OP was right in asking for advice only from people who know what they're talking about and yet, as is typical on this site, got a torrent of holier-than-thou answers from idiots who have no idea what they're talking about. There are only two people who have any business giving advice about this situation and that would be myself and (possibly) LizzyM.

one piece of advice i will give you in public though is not to discuss this on SDN and don't take any of the "advice" you got from anyone in this thread seriously (unless it is from myself or LizzyM - who, for the record, is not exactly an expert in this kind of situation by her own admission)....not saying i'm an "expert" but having lived it definiltey gives me a real perspective on the situation. i had posted about my situation on here (under a different name, so don't bother looking for it) when it happened and of course all the answers i got were along the lines of "you're done" and "you'll never get into med school" and of course the typical holier-than-thou crap...but as you can see they were all (not surprisingly) wrong.

good luck and feel free to contact me.

And just how do you know whether or not anyone else in this thread has ever had a similar experience? Not everyone is fond of telling a message board full of anonymous posters about their past mistakes, even if there are few (if any) consequences. Consider that the next time you come forth and attack those of us who are trying to give advice, even if we have not established any similarities in our backgrounds. Yes, maybe you or the OP won't agree with what we have to say, but that is the risk that one takes when they put forth material on a public internet forum and seek responses from a large group of anonymous posters. If you don't agree, then feel free to disagree or offer corrections, but please don't attack the right to self-expression in the first place.

That having been said, I do agree with you, and hope that the OP will not lose her dreams of medical school solely because of a single incident. I too know of individuals with seemingly larger blemishes on their records who have successfully matriculated at allopathic medical schools.

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[scarletgirl777]

i think i need to jump in here before MissIntrigued has a nervous breakdown because of all the crap that is being hurled toward her....

i basically had the same situation except i made this mistake later in my college career (with a similar result) and took less time off before applying.

this will absolutely NOT keep you out of med school!!!

For the record I got five interviews, one acceptance so far and did not apply to any DO schools.

PM me if you want more help.

Now to the rest of you who posted in this thread....i GUARANTEE that if you were in this situation you would've absolutely tried to sweep this under the rug if you could. It's easy to lecture other people about the "right thing" but if it was your dream and your career on the line i'm absolutely sure you would see things differently. also...remember: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

the OP was right in asking for advice only from people who know what they're talking about and yet, as is typical on this site, got a torrent of holier-than-thou answers from idiots who have no idea what they're talking about. There are only two people who have any business giving advice about this situation and that would be myself and (possibly) LizzyM.

one piece of advice i will give you in public though is not to discuss this on SDN and don't take any of the "advice" you got from anyone in this thread seriously (unless it is from myself or LizzyM - who, for the record, is not exactly an expert in this kind of situation by her own admission)....not saying i'm an "expert" but having lived it definiltey gives me a real perspective on the situation. i had posted about my situation on here (under a different name, so don't bother looking for it) when it happened and of course all the answers i got were along the lines of "you're done" and "you'll never get into med school" and of course the typical holier-than-thou crap...but as you can see they were all (not surprisingly) wrong.

good luck and feel free to contact me.

It is not holier than thou to say something is unethical. Most of us are not saying she's going to hell. We are saying that this is unethical, and it is not worth it to try to cover this up.

And yeah, you can't guarantee that we would do the same thing...because we've all had chances to do similar things and we haven't all done the same thing

 

[236116]

And just how do you know whether or not anyone else in this thread has ever had a similar experience? Not everyone is fond of telling a message board full of anonymous posters about their past mistakes, even if there are few (if any) consequences. Consider that the next time you come forth and attack those of us who are trying to give advice, even if we have not established any similarities in our backgrounds. Yes, maybe you or the OP won't agree with what we have to say, but that is the risk that one takes when they put forth material on a public internet forum and seek responses from a large group of anonymous posters. If you don't agree, then feel free to disagree or offer corrections, but please don't attack the right to self-expression in the first place.

It is not holier than thou to say something is unethical. Most of us are not saying she's going to hell. We are saying that this is unethical, and it is not worth it to try to cover this up.

And yeah, you can't guarantee that we would do the same thing...because we've all had chances to do similar things and we haven't all done the same thing

 

[katarina90]

From reading her most recent post, it looks like the OP is going to have to disclose (from what I read, it appears it is kept on her permanent record).

OP: Judging from the last post you sound distressed. I can relate to the depression thing, and realize what terrible consequences it can have not just academically but life in general.
So my two cents (and of course take it with a grain of salt, I'm just a lowly premed haha : ))
The best thing to do at this point is clear your head, take a walk, get your mind off it for awhile. When you're ready, write a good explanation. I would have a close friend or family member that you're comfortable with read the explanation before you submit it, just to ensure that it is concise and doesn't come off as a justification or excuse.
It seems like you've made a lot of positive choices and accomplishments since, and try to mentally focus on the things you have going for you than what you have against you.

 

[cyclin M]

Now to the rest of you who posted in this thread....i GUARANTEE that if you were in this situation you would've absolutely tried to sweep this under the rug if you could. It's easy to lecture other people about the "right thing" but if it was your dream and your career on the line i'm absolutely sure you would see things differently.

Nope not me. Please do not project your weak morals onto me. It is insulting. We are faced with ethical choices everyday, both large and small. Whatever the situation, you must adhere to your moral compass. Unless you subscribe to a more utilitarian philosophy, then that is your choice.

 

[235009]

And just how do you know whether or not anyone else in this thread has ever had a similar experience? Not everyone is fond of telling a message board full of anonymous posters about their past mistakes, even if there are few (if any) consequences. Consider that the next time you come forth and attack those of us who are trying to give advice, even if we have not established any similarities in our backgrounds. Yes, maybe you or the OP won't agree with what we have to say, but that is the risk that one takes when they put forth material on a public internet forum and seek responses from a large group of anonymous posters. If you don't agree, then feel free to disagree or offer corrections, but please don't attack the right to self-expression in the first place.

That having been said, I do agree with you, and hope that the OP will not lose her dreams of medical school solely because of a single incident. I too know of individuals with seemingly larger blemishes on their records who have successfully matriculated at allopathic medical schools.

that's true, i don't know if anyone else here has had a similar situation but if you don't mention it your opinion, which may be valid due to experience, just gets muddled up with all the uninformed BS that other people are spewing.

It is not holier than thou to say something is unethical. Most of us are not saying she's going to hell. We are saying that this is unethical, and it is not worth it to try to cover this up.

And yeah, you can't guarantee that we would do the same thing...because we've all had chances to do similar things and we haven't all done the same thing

i didn't say i disagree about whether or not its unethical to omit it....i actually agree that it would have been a bad idea to omit it because if it is discovered it would absolutely be game over...you would basically have no chance of getting in...ever.

there is no point in arguing over the second part of your post.

 

[nick_carraway]

From reading her most recent post, it looks like the OP is going to have to disclose (from what I read, it appears it is kept on her permanent record).

OP: Judging from the last post you sound distressed. I can relate to the depression thing, and realize what terrible consequences it can have not just academically but life in general.
So my two cents (and of course take it with a grain of salt, I'm just a lowly premed haha : ))
The best thing to do at this point is clear your head, take a walk, get your mind off it for awhile. When you're ready, write a good explanation. I would have a close friend or family member that you're comfortable with read the explanation before you submit it, just to ensure that it is concise and doesn't come off as a justification or excuse.
It seems like you've made a lot of positive choices and accomplishments since, and try to mentally focus on the things you have going for you than what you have against you.

Katarina is right.

The situation has now changed since the OP is going to disclose anyway.

I don't think it's really necessary to continue a discussion of who's morally defunct and who is more ethical since the ultimate decision is that she will disclose her plagiarism.

 

[123165]

that's true, i don't know if anyone else here has had a similar situation but if you don't mention it your opinion, which may be valid due to experience, just gets muddled up with all the uninformed BS that other people are spewing.



i didn't say i disagree about whether or not its unethical to omit it....i actually agree that it would have been a bad idea to omit it because if it is discovered it would absolutely be game over...you would basically have no chance of getting in...ever.

there is no point in arguing over the second part of your post.

Please quote some uninformed BS

 

[146233]

It is possible to disagree and remain civil. Let's be sure we do that, everyone.

 

[silas2642]

Lizzy

Trust me, I know what it says on the AMCAS page. But not even all written laws are right as written, not everything is "right" just because it's a written policy...

I know by "do you what you think is right" you're telling me you think I should be honest, but honesty is not a fair thing in some cases, and this is one of them. If I thought i would actually be treated fairly if I gave this information, then I'd have no problem with it, because it was nearly a decade ago and I've done infinitely more good with my life than that one minor offense. But you and I both know that I wouldnt be treated the same or even given a real chance to defend myself, and that's the problem. But I guess it can't be helped when you have one committee looking at 5,000 applications, right?

Let's say I would otherwise be a fantastic, wonderful physician. Hell, maybe I'd be one of the people to cure cancer one day. You have no idea what skeletons people have in their closets, most far worse than cheating on a three page paper their freshman year of college. I work with patients now and everyone I have ever worked with, physicians, managers, professors, etc, think I'd be great at a career in medicine.

however, my grades are only mediocre for whatever reasons. It's irrelevent at this moment, but let's say it wasn't due to my lack of intelligence. Let's say I rock the MCAT. I have a distinct feeling even if my grades were also stellar, I wouldn't be given a fair chance at admission because of this one little indiscretion. Because I made a poor choice, cheated on a three page paper, I'd probably be overlooked at many schools for an interview to even explain myself. They wouldnt care, right?

In some cases, honesty is not fair nor the best policy, and in my case, it's true. that one moment in my life would be used as a gauge for all my abilities, despite the fact that it was an isolated incident. So i hate to say it, but I'd rather be measured by everything else I've done than have my ENTIRE record mean NOTHING because of this one thing. Or am I completely crazy to think so?

I know of a guy who had a DUI, ran over and killed a 45 year old man. Due to family connections, money, what have you, this douche is out free and clear, never had to do anything, never got a record. Got off on a "technicality". This douche was also admitted to an Ivy medical school. Will be be a bad doctor? Not necessarily. But to think that because his DUI didn't make it onto a piece of paper he could be admitted to a school, and I couldnt because of cheating on a three page paper sickens me. People get away with things all the time. i don't see how what i've done is so horrible in the grand scheme of things....

You say that you're worried that you're going to be treated unfairly by adcoms because of one poor decision that you made and that they're going to overlook your application because of a moment of poor judgment that was made while you were under a great deal of stress (i.e. depression, being far away from home, working a lot, sleep-deprived, etc.). But that's the way medicine is-- people can get really hurt because you made a bad decision while you were sleep-deprived, depressed, over-worked and stressed out. The question becomes whether or not you're going to take the responsibilty for your actions or not-- right or wrong, do you stand behind what you've done or do you make excuses and cover your tracks?

You were under a really tough situation freshman year, and given the same situation, there is no way to tell whether or not any of us would have made the same decision. The difference between us becomes whether or not we would take responsibility for the actions and learn from them or just make up excuses. You committed an act of dishonesty and you got caught. You should consider yourself lucky that you didn't get kicked out of school-- what you got was a slap on the wrist.

Right now you're standing in the exact same position-- you have the choice to do the right thing or make another unethical decision and risk getting caught again. You can finally start taking responsibility for what your actions or you can cover your tracks again. It's not up to you to decide whether or not you deserve to get into medical school or not or to "even the playing field" to make sure you get a fair chance. You have made your bed, and now you have to lay in it. You have the advantage of time-- this incident was nearly a decade ago-- show the adcoms that you have learned from this mistake, show them that you have grown as a person, and get into medical school the right way.

 

[Timaeus]

You know, 10 years is a long time... I can forget a lot of things in 10 years

 

[123165]

You know, 10 years is a long time... I can forget a lot of things in 10 years

I was thinking about this myself. When it boils down to it though, will the adcoms believe that you forgot it, or think you are lying again, twice.

 

[cbrons]

when you're young, you sometimes do dumb **** and you screw up. People make mistakes. You admit your mistakes and roll with the punches. You better disclose this and not sweep it under the rug like some coward. Sometimes you gotta face the music... I understand what you're trying to do and I can't say I wouldn't be tempted to do the same thing myself. But at the end of the day, you have to be honest and just pray that the med school adcoms will have mercy on you. They're just people after all - with their own screw ups and shortcomings. By revealing what you've done, at least you will show yourself to be honest. If you don't reveal it and they find out anyway, well, then you'll just look like a lying sack of **** and no excuse or rationalization is going to save you after that.

Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.