academic v/s private pro and cons?`

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If private pays more salary compared to academics, why academic is prefered over private ?

is it job stability and insurance benifits ?

what is an anverage academic and private pay ?

 

[pathstudent]

I am probably the best person to answer this.

Yes private practice in general makes more right out of the gate than most academic positions. In the long run though, I would bet that seasoned attendings make similar incomes to hospital based partners. Remember partners have to pay for everything out of their income (i.e. the corporation). So retirement, healthcare, educational fund, etc... all come out of the corporation. And moreover, even in scenarios where private practice people make considerably more, chances are they are working harder in terms of caseload. With all due respect to LADOC00, (who claims to sign-out 45 minutes a day, drive an F40 and live next to Agassi and Graf in Tiburon) from talking to hospital based private practice pathologists, they work their asses off to maintain their incomes.

Besides, on average more income, private practice types get to do multiple activities. In addition to signing out AP, they might also manage microbiology or blood bank and also be involved with administration. Plus you also get the satisfaction of being your own boss in your small business, which you don't get if you go into academics (or non-academic mill work).

The advantages to academics is you just get to do pathology. It seems like PP types are so stressed out about losing their business. In academics, you just get to do what you love. You don't have to fret that the urologists will take your away biopsy business or that the GIs will for their own lab and subcontract the pathology. At least at most large academic centers that is the case. There is plenty of pathology with the internal outpatient and inpatient cases.

Also in academics you get to be part of the stimulating environment with proximity to research, world experts in multiple areas of medicine. And many academic medical centers are near the main campus making you truly part of a campus environment with all the accoutrements. Plus you get the stimulation of working with medical students and residents.

Now if you don't like any of those things, then that would be the advantage of going to PP.

 

[2121115]

I am probably the best person to answer this.

Yes private practice in general makes more right out of the gate than most academic positions. In the long run though, I would bet that seasoned attendings make similar incomes to hospital based partners. Remember partners have to pay for everything out of their income (i.e. the corporation). So retirement, healthcare, educational fund, etc... all come out of the corporation. And moreover, even in scenarios where private practice people make considerably more, chances are they are working harder in terms of caseload. With all due respect to LADOC00, (who claims to sign-out 45 minutes a day, drive an F40 and live next to Agassi and Graf in Tiburon) from talking to hospital based private practice pathologists, they work their asses off to maintain their incomes.

Besides, on average more income, private practice types get to do multiple activities. In addition to signing out AP, they might also manage microbiology or blood bank and also be involved with administration. Plus you also get the satisfaction of being your own boss in your small business, which you don't get if you go into academics (or non-academic mill work).

The advantages to academics is you just get to do pathology. It seems like PP types are so stressed out about losing their business. In academics, you just get to do what you love. You don't have to fret that the urologists will take your away biopsy business or that the GIs will for their own lab and subcontract the pathology. At least at most large academic centers that is the case. There is plenty of pathology with the internal outpatient and inpatient cases.

Also in academics you get to be part of the stimulating environment with proximity to research, world experts in multiple areas of medicine. And many academic medical centers are near the main campus making you truly part of a campus environment with all the accoutrements. Plus you get the stimulation of working with medical students and residents.

Now if you don't like any of those things, then that would be the advantage of going to PP.

Solid post, except for the part about senior attendings in academics making similar to PP partners.

 

[pathstudent]

Solid post, except for the part about senior attendings in academics making similar to PP partners.

Well if you figure an average seasoned academic makes around 350K to up to 400k and add in healthcare for family, retirement, educational slush fund etc.. It must be another 75K in benefits. So I bet there are some hospital based private practice attendings that don't make that much (althogh some probably make much more and work accordingly)

 

[2121115]

Well if you figure an average seasoned academic makes around 350K to up to 400k and add in healthcare for family, retirement, educational slush fund etc.. It must be another 75K in benefits. So I bet there are some hospital based private practice attendings that don't make that much (althogh some probably make much more and work accordingly)

Maybe that is the case in your institution, but in my institution even the most seasoned attendings do not make nearly that much. I cannot speak for everyone at every institution, but that is not the case at mine and I doubt it is true for the average (as you state). If things are that good at your institution then I am happy for you and wish you the best.

Where I am, if you can navigate the waters and not get chewed up and spit out by the machine as a junior attending then as a senior attending you may make in the low 200's. Academics here is not for the faint of heart and junior attendings write/publish during nights and weekends while signing out during the day. It is prestigious, however, and that makes up for the difference in lifestyle and pay that is present in private practice.

 

[LADoc00]

Yes, yes. Academics is good. Stay in academics.

Go away. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Absolutely nothing over here worth considering. Academics is Shangri La, Xanadu and a Thai Strip Club all rolled into one, 100% pure unadultered ectasy.
👍

Working for the VA or for your local county health system is a close second. Check those out too.

 

[HRantz]

Yes, yes. Academics is good. Stay in academics.

Go away. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Absolutely nothing over here worth considering. Academics is Shangri La, Xanadu and a Thai Strip Club all rolled into one, 100% pure unadultered ectasy.
👍

Working for the VA or for your local county health system is a close second. Check those out too.

Where's the "Like" button??

 

[pathstudent]

Maybe that is the case in your institution, but in my institution even the most seasoned attendings do not make nearly that much. I cannot speak for everyone at every institution, but that is not the case at mine and I doubt it is true for the average (as you state). If things are that good at your institution then I am happy for you and wish you the best.

Where I am, if you can navigate the waters and not get chewed up and spit out by the machine as a junior attending then as a senior attending you may make in the low 200's. Academics here is not for the faint of heart and junior attendings write/publish during nights and weekends while signing out during the day. It is prestigious, however, and that makes up for the difference in lifestyle and pay that is present in private practice.

If you look at that website that posts university salaries in Cal, you can check most seasoned attending (full professors) and they all make 300-500K. And that is just salary from the state. THey probably have supplemental income from other arrangements.

Unlike LADOC00 who claims he can sign out an entire medical center's cases before 9am (what kind of med center is that?), drives an F40, and lives in Ross next to Pelosi, most hospital based private practice types work balls to the walls to earn the big bucks. But Linda Ferrel and CHuck Z make near 400k and spend 3 hours a day signing out 3 weeks a month, then they write some articles, review some others, attend/speak at national meetings, and they have their malpractice, retirement, health insurance and expenses covered. It is not a horrible deal.

 

[LADoc00]

What the...

I live nowhere near Nancy Pelosi, thank you.

We take out the trash where I am. 😉

 

[oldfatman]

Yes, yes. Academics is good. Stay in academics.

Go away. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Absolutely nothing over here worth considering. Academics is Shangri La, Xanadu and a Thai Strip Club all rolled into one, 100% pure unadultered ectasy.
👍

Working for the VA or for your local county health system is a close second. Check those out too.

We love you, man. Don't ever leave us again.

 

[trudyfae]

I was also looking for the "like" button.

 

[2121115]

But Linda Ferrel and CHuck Z make near 400k and spend 3 hours a day signing out 3 weeks a month, then they write some articles, review some others, attend/speak at national meetings, and they have their malpractice, retirement, health insurance and expenses covered. It is not a horrible deal.

Those are incredibly rare exceptions. That will never happen for the academic pathologists signing out cases all day long at mid and lower tier academic centers and even many/most at upper tier academic centers. Sure a few people get famous, do well, get paid and whatnot. But that expectation is unrealistic for the average pathology resident to count on for a future career.

If what you describe is the deal you have set up for yourself, then I salute you and godspeed.

 

[pathstudent]

Those are incredibly rare exceptions. That will never happen for the academic pathologists signing out cases all day long at mid and lower tier academic centers and even many/most at upper tier academic centers. Sure a few people get famous, do well, get paid and whatnot. But that expectation is unrealistic for the average pathology resident to count on for a future career.

If what you describe is the deal you have set up for yourself, then I salute you and godspeed.

Check the website yourself. Most full time professors earn in that range. Supposedly salaries are lower on the west coast because people are so desperate to live there. I bet full professors at Iowa minnesotta Cleveland clinic Michigan even do better

 

[djmd]

Check the website yourself. Most full time professors earn in that range. Supposedly salaries are lower on the west coast because people are so desperate to live there. I bet full professors at Iowa minnesotta Cleveland clinic Michigan even do better

I wouldn't be so sure about that.. nor would I be so sure about using that sight as factor for actual salary....

Looking at Zaloudek (who you mentioned)

http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/sala...ek&totalpay=332536.08&agency=UC+SAN+FRANCISCO

They maybe counting things other than pretax income to get that final number.. because there is a size able gap between base and the final number listed...

Base pay: $222K
Total pay: $354K

 

[raider]

That salary sucks!
Wonder how much they pay to the radologists and surgeons.

 

[2121115]

Check the website yourself. Most full time professors earn in that range. Supposedly salaries are lower on the west coast because people are so desperate to live there. I bet full professors at Iowa minnesotta Cleveland clinic Michigan even do better

Total base pay is in the low 200's now and was 168k in 2007. The additional pay that those pathologists get is nowhere close to what normal academic pathologists get. And it may not even be "pay" as in $$ but in benefits or the like. I wouldn't go into academics expecting to make 350-400k.

 

[pathstudent]

Total base pay is in the low 200's now and was 168k in 2007. The additional pay that those pathologists get is nowhere close to what normal academic pathologists get. And it may not even be "pay" as in $$ but in benefits or the like. I wouldn't go into academics expecting to make 350-400k.

WEll Leboit makes 191 in base pay. So I gues she is getting 1.7 million in benefits.

The base pay means nothing. It is the final pay that counts. That is the take home salary and doesn't include benefits.

Fine I guess you just can't stop beating the drum. Fine I give in. You can make **** in academics. Happy now?

Still I don't believe it, I know you do really well after you put in some years.

 

[djmd]

WEll Leboit makes 191 in base pay. So I gues she is getting 1.7 million in benefits.

The base pay means nothing. It is the final pay that counts. That is the take home salary and doesn't include benefits.

That is what I want to know how you know that...

I don't think that Leboit makes 1.7 Mil in benefits.. but EVERY pathologist I looked up on there (full professors, associate professors, etc..) has 60k+ difference between base pay and final pay....

I don't claim to know what exactly makes up that difference, and I am sure that the big names get some of that from consults... and there could be bonuses based on productivity.. but how do you know that final number is definitely pre-tax salary.

I will also say that I saw a lot of variety in the pay for pathologists I looked up.. So I am sure the big name consultants do well, but not every pathologist is making over 250...

 

[pathstudent]

Oh I give up. There are people on the list that make 35k a year obviously it doesn't include benefits.

There is no convincing academic hatred that if you play the game and make full professor you can be earning a living Good that is

 

[yaah]

You may never realize it from reading internet forums, but money is not the sole important factor for many individuals.

 

[mrp]

To reiterate, the "base" is irrelevant, it's a base salary that a professor in linguistics or English might make. The extra is not "benefits", it's the extra amount they have to pay people to be competitive (at least marginally) with private practice. Usually, you have to negotiate with your chair for the extra when you are hired. Benefits are not reflected in the Sac Bee stuff.

 

[Cleavername]

If you look at that website that posts university salaries in Cal, you can check most seasoned attending (full professors) and they all make 300-500K. And that is just salary from the state. THey probably have supplemental income from other arrangements.

Unlike LADOC00 who claims he can sign out an entire medical center's cases before 9am (what kind of med center is that?), drives an F40, and lives in Ross next to Pelosi, most hospital based private practice types work balls to the walls to earn the big bucks. But Linda Ferrel and CHuck Z make near 400k and spend 3 hours a day signing out 3 weeks a month, then they write some articles, review some others, attend/speak at national meetings, and they have their malpractice, retirement, health insurance and expenses covered. It is not a horrible deal.

how long does it take to make full professor? or even assistant professor?