Accepting Admissions

[calvinhobbes]

Going to a Carib school today, is NOT the same as going to one ten or fifteen or twenty years ago. Back then, it was an okay option because there was less competition from DO and MD schools (there weren’t that many DO schools, and MD schools weren’t increasing any class sizes and barely opening new schools). Fast-forward to today, it’s a different game (MANY new DO schools, MD schools, and class expansions, WITHOUT a significant increase in residency spots). You will most likely not match into residency from a Carib school, at least the specialty of your choice, even FM. I’ve worked with plenty of Carib graduates who all say it was an up-hill battle for them. Carib grads of twenty or more years past, are NOT the same grads of today. Please do not ruin your future by going to Carib today. Even five years ago??? Eh, maybe I could have suggested it, but not today, it’s getting harder and harder for Caribs to match.

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[calvinhobbes]

I am a Caribbean Med school grad and wouldn’t recommend it. It’s a huge risk. 30-40% of my class quit without graduating leaving them stranded with hundreds of thousands in debt with no way to pay it. I was an average student, top 50th percentile of my class with average step scores and I only got 3 interviews for pediatrics and 1 for internal medicine. Luckily I secured a residency but I have friends who didn’t. Step 1 scores being pass fail now probably hurts ability to stand out against Us Med schools even more.

THIS! I forgot that step 1 scores are now P/F. Thus, residencies will be looking at many students who went to a top or prestigious school (like dental residencies have done for a long time, since their boards in dental school are also P/F). Again, going to a a Carib school 20 years ago and being successful is NOT the same as it is today!!

 

[Psych2014]

Do NOT apply Carib!
The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention, especially DO schools.

What's your GPAs?

These bizarre blanket statements about the character qualities of Caribbean students sound absurd. Or did I miss the joke? Having been there, some of them are there for the wrong reasons, or are under performers, and if you have the tuition money you can generally get into most Caribbean schools, but it's generally like any other segment of society, there are also a lot of hard-working people there. But I agree that your stats sound plenty high enough to at least qualify for D. O., And while you can match from the higher tier Caribbean schools, it's obviously a lot better from the D.O. school.

 

[Goro]

These bizarre blanket statements about the character qualities of Caribbean students sound absurd. Or did I miss the joke?

No joke. Of the people who post about going Carib on SDN, the comments definitely still apply.

 

[ChiDr]

Reapply. I started med school in my 30s. A year or two is nothing. US MD, US DO. That is it. You have plenty of time.

 

[JustaBread]

Ok, let's address each point 1-by-1. I am answering this as a DO student who took 2 gap years.

Should you accept Caribbean Admissions?
No. Honestly, if my stat were as solid as yours, I wouldn't even consider spending money on Caribbean applications.

"I applied the first time for the wrong reasons (e.g. - pressure from family,) and I ended up sabotaging myself by not preparing adequately for interviews as I was interviewing as an undergrad. I did not reflect on that experience and did not apply with conviction in 2019, but reflecting on my gap year and shadowing experiences and my time as an EMT have made me want to reapply myself."

If you applied the first time for the wrong reason and still did not apply with the conviction in 2019, do you think you have the right reason(s) to apply for the third time? Please please, for your own good, ask yourself again, do you really want to become a doctor and couldn't see yourself doing something else? With that kind of MCAT scores, you are really smart with studying and taking tests, but do you really want to be a doctor?? If the answer is still yes, and you are ready to apply with conviction and more confidence, just do it!!! I mean it seems like you already know your weaknesses, if you can address these weaknesses and turn them into strength/lessons, I am positive that you can even get into MD school(s) even as a reapplicant!!

"During my second application for admission in 2019 I applied to about 30 MD programs including those I applied to previously, but I only submitted secondaries to 6 of them because I felt anxiety and was fixated on my previous experience applying and failing. My primary that cycle was complete in June."

Wait.... what!!??? You only submitted the secondaries to 6 schools!!!???? If you decide to do the third round, please try to submit as many secondaries as possible and with more confidence. To me it seems like you have all the goods (stats, experience, etc.) but you did not present them widely. Who knows, there might be a medical school who would have accepted you if you submitted the secondary to them back in 2019.


"I have yet to apply to any DO programs. I have been working as a tutor and obtained an EMT certification since 2019, but my application has not really developed otherwise since. Part of me feels like I could take the year, work as an EMT, and find success applying to DO programs, but on the other hand I also am turning 27 soon and have been out of school and full-time employment for two years."

Ok. Let me say this. No. Let me virtually scream* this in to your ears "DON"T WORRY ABOUT AGE!!!!!" There are moms, dads, RNs, people over 30+ and 35+ in my classes, and they are doing just fine! I also know someone who also applied like 4-5 cycles before getting accepted. So, just do your best on your applications (focused on your interview skills, presentations, anxiety, other weaknesses etc.), so you don't regret anything this time. The best part of failure is turning it into your strength, so you are no longer afraid of it!

 

[fullmetal]

I am a Canadian who succeeded at obtaining a US residency (in family medicine) in 2017. My experience, as a medical student in the Caribbean, as a medical student in the United States, and during residency, was AMAZING. And I LOVE what I do. But in your situation, I would STILL advise you not to give up and to instead apply to US MD and DO programs. Even in 2017, approximately half of the people in my class (from start to finish) did not obtain a US residency. My success involved an element of luck, no doubt.

But if you want a US MD or DO you have to show them you REALLY want it. You have to show that that you BREATHE medicine. But not only that. You have to show them that you are also a moral person, that you have social skills, and that you are UNIQUE. You worked as a tutor and then trained to be an EMT? ADMIRABLE. But being a tutor and training to be an EMT isn't that hard. I will admit BEING an EMT is different. That takes mental fortitude, especially for the ****ty $.

Bottom line? Your scores are good. You just need to push harder to get them to notice you and to show them that you are 100% committed to medicine.

 

[LostDesire1989]

I am currently struggling with a decision about whether to accept an admission from a Carribbean medical school or to take another year to reapply to MD/DO programs.

Some background information about me:

• I am 26 (turning 27) at the moment, and applied twice to MD programs unsuccessfully (once for the 2017 cycle, and once more for the 2019 cycle albeit only to a handful of schools.) I have yet to apply to any DO programs.
• Undergrad GPA: 3.93
  • MCAT Score (2016): 523
  • MCAT Retake (2019): 523
• Finished undergrad in 2017 and took additional coursework and found additional shadowing/volunteer work after 2017; have been working as a tutor and trained to become an EMT from 2019 to present.

I have not applied to any MD/DO programs since 2019, but decided to send applications to some Carribbean programs this cycle as I was getting worried about my future and my extended time off from school. While applying, I was told that it is entirely possible to succeed at Carribbean programs and obtain US residencies in underfilled specialities like IM, but some more research into recent developments have made me feel a little anxious, and I am starting to think said advice was outdated.

At the same time, I am not sure about my chances for obtaining a seat as an MD/DO student as a reapplicant given my age and my time off from school.

I would appreciate any advice or insight you might have. Thank you!

I think one of the most important things for you to consider is at this point in your life (being 27) do you want to wait another year vs matriculate into a medical school sooner by going to the Caribbean. This is something that you have to figure out on your own. Here's my $.02: I matriculated into a Caribbean school (AUC) in 2011. At this time in my life, I was 21, I just had graduated undergrad. Caribbean schools are tough in many aspects: 1. Island life can be very tough to adapt to. 2. Caribbean schools are known for weeding out the weak during the basic sciences and students aren't as coddled as the AMG students. 3. Clinical sites can vary in the quality of educational experience. When I was a student, if you had good step scores (240+) you were pretty much guaranteed to match as long as you weren't applying to (Derm, orhto, optho, urology,ent, rad onc). However times have changed with step 1 being pass/fail, as many programs would apply a 240 filter for inviting interviews for residency. It is true that despite having good scores and everything else Caribbean grads are looked at as "second-class citizens" when it comes to the match. From my experience, I am happy that I went to a Caribbean school. I was able to match into an Anesthesia program and then go on to do an Interventional Chronic Pain Fellowship. I have several classmates who have recently graduated from residency in all sorts of specialties and go on to do competitive fellowships. If you have any questions feel free to message me. Good Luck!

 

[Whale6080]

You have to make the best decision for yourself and be realistic about your career goals. I went to residency with several US IMGs that went on to fellowships in IM and Pediatrics. But if say surgery or Urology is your plan then Caribbean schools might not be for you or you need to understand how to navigate the system to your advantage.

Not all Caribbean schools are the same either so Please research each one carefully!! Ask what their stats are for class size, drop outs, number applying to residency on time, Step scores, etc. You can be successful at a Caribbean school but you have to know what you’re getting yourself into.

 

[dr2b0804]

I am currently struggling with a decision about whether to accept an admission from a Carribbean medical school or to take another year to reapply to MD/DO programs.

Some background information about me:

• I am 26 (turning 27) at the moment, and applied twice to MD programs unsuccessfully (once for the 2017 cycle, and once more for the 2019 cycle albeit only to a handful of schools.) I have yet to apply to any DO programs.
• Undergrad GPA: 3.93
  • MCAT Score (2016): 523
  • MCAT Retake (2019): 523
• Finished undergrad in 2017 and took additional coursework and found additional shadowing/volunteer work after 2017; have been working as a tutor and trained to become an EMT from 2019 to present.

I have not applied to any MD/DO programs since 2019, but decided to send applications to some Carribbean programs this cycle as I was getting worried about my future and my extended time off from school. While applying, I was told that it is entirely possible to succeed at Carribbean programs and obtain US residencies in underfilled specialities like IM, but some more research into recent developments have made me feel a little anxious, and I am starting to think said advice was outdated.

At the same time, I am not sure about my chances for obtaining a seat as an MD/DO student as a reapplicant given my age and my time off from school.

I would appreciate any advice or insight you might have. Thank you!

AUC grad here ‘04. My 2 cents. I realize I graduated a while ago but as I’ve watched where each class matches to I’ve seen more and more match to competitive programs (than when I matched). My husband and I met at AUC and matched to our # 1 choice anesthesia residency. So, it’s is possible. I’d say that it is harder coming from a Caribbean school. There is definitely a stigma and some places won’t even look at your application. What no one has asked you which is a critical question is …do you know what speciality you want to go into? If you don’t know at all or know for sure and it’s an extremely competitive speciality…try DO or American again. If, however, you know you want to go into family practice, peds, ob/gyn, IM, an IM subspecialty, ED, general surgery…then as long as you work hard and are self motivated, you’ll be fine. With the gpa you have and your scores, you have the intelligence…the reason so many fail out of Caribbean schools is because there are a number of people who get in who aren’t smart enough, motivated enough, etc. They don’t try to fail you…the people who never should have been allowed to start med school…they fail. You wouldn’t. You do need to make sure you do very well on your tests and clinicals though and get great LORs during your clinicals. My husband and I were nervous both going for a competitive speciality as IMGs….but we also literally applied to all but the top ten and bottom 10 residencies and went on as many interviews as we could (18 anesthesia and 15 prelim/transitional year) to increase our chances of matching. Being on a non traditional scheduled allowed us to have the time between rotations to go on these interviews. We also didn’t couples match to increase our choices of both of us matching. We both got our top choices. (Then he transferred to my program). So, just a different perspective than all of the people who don’t know what they are talking about and say going to a Caribbean school is the end of the world….it isn’t. You have to be ready to set up some of your own clinicals like we did, spend more money, rock the Steps, etc. BUT ALL of my friends from med school ended up graduating and matching to residencies, and they are all happy and successful. Honestly, if you like your hand held and things given to you then it’s not the place for you….but…I personally wouldn’t trade my 2 years on a beautiful fun Caribbean island followed by a year in Ireland, and then rotations all over the us my fourth year for anything. I had a blast while in med school and ended up exactly where I wanted to be. FYI most people do their clinicals in one location in the US…so that IS a possibility and the norm. Anyway, unless you know or think you may want to go into derm, optho, plastics, neurosurg, ortho….it’s a fun a valid route for a smart, motivated, person. Of course this is just AUC I’m talking about. Also, I choose AUC because I’d been to all three islands that AUC, St.George’s, and Ross are on…and I knew that Sint Maarten was the least 3rd world, and much more developed of an island than the other two….which made my time there very comfortable and fun. So keep that in mind if you consider going. Good luck in your decision. Sorry that was more like 25 cents. 😁

 

[medical_monkeys]

My advice: consult with someone who actually knows what they’re doing (pre-med advisor, doctors, do you have connections?) Perhaps several people. Critical to also reach out to individual schools to review your application with you; all you have to do is email them.

I think you have a lot more potential than Caribbean and should reapply (I’m shocked you applied to Caribbean with your stats in the first place). My stats aren’t as good, but I invested a lot in my essays/ interview prep. you just need someone to help you ID the weak areas.

 

[dial1010usa]

Maybe I can motivate you. I have done my undergrad when I was 22, applied 2 cycles and didn't get in because my gpa and MCAT were not even close to yours. At 24, I went to SMP with link program and got into DO, so at 25 I started med School. I just graduated and I'm 29 and started my residency. I felt like I was behind when I was comparing with my undergrad friends.
STOP comparing yourself with others. You are such a brilliant student with great gpa and MCAT.
Work on your anxiety and weakness.
DO NOT Go to Caribbean because I tried to go to Caribbean too but my parents said NO to that and I'm so very thankful to them.
One more year will not make much difference.

I would suggest do this...........
1- Shadow MD/DO doctors if you haven't have a LOR.
2- Work on your app and interview skills.
3- Work on your anxiety and get medical help.
4- Re-take MCAT if you think it's absolutely necessary and you can hit close to your previous scores.
5- Apply MD/DO both and come back here when you are ready to apply.
6- Please DO NOT under estimate yourself as you are a very strong and smart, and we need doctors like you.
7- Maybe do meditation if that helps.

All the very best!!!!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

AUC grad here ‘04

With all due respect, that was nearly 20 years ago. Since then, about 30 DO schools/branches have opened and a number of MD schools have either opened or expanded their class sizes. It will only be more difficult now that step is P/F

 

[Isoval]

I would not touch a Caribbean school with a ten-foot pole at this point.

The risk/benefit versus reapplying is too unfavorable in the current environment. Caribbean match rate, overall, is in the 55%s and falling, and I see it only falling further with recent changes like Step 1 P/F.

 

[mara70]

Hi. I’m a recent fellowship coordinator. I know it’s not the exact same as applying to med school BUT coordinators at most medical schools all have meetings together and they attend national conferences. I set up all the interviews for our program. I also did the initial screen on apps based off the criteria set by our program. A few takeaways….

1. Our program was a top 10 peds hospital, especially in terms of research dollars from NIH.

2. We barely even looked at where you went to medical school unless you were a)IMG and we needed to make sure you could be licensed or b) you were tied with someone else in ranking. We DID look at size of program to ensure that your clinical experience was broad in terms of exposure to different diagnoses.

3. What was most important to us?
A. Interview
B. LOR (generic or personal? Did you actually have a relationship with that writer or was it basically a generic form LOR?)
C. Research - what research have you done if none that was kind of a red flag for us. Hard to do in undergrad but if taking gap years you should either have some sort of research OR significant clinical experience or academic something related to medical. If you don’t have that, take another gap year and get it.
D) WHY you want to be a doctor. And not the generic I know this person who had this illness and it moved me. Your personal statement and your WHY needs to be deeply thought through and well articulated. Why did so and so’s illness move you to go through 12+ years of school and training and become hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt? Be real.

E. How well do you cope with stress? And what do you do? Have hobbies to help? Dance, play the guitar? It’s a very sad reality that many can’t cope with not just med school but also residency and fellowship and burn out or do worse. Mental health is huge right now as it should be.

F. Attitude. Towards everyone m, even the “little” people like coordinators. Do you have a God complex? Arrogant? Are you nice? Medicine is a very small world. If you have ever had a not nice interaction with any nurse, coordinator, etc someone knows someone who knows the PD and it will be found out. By the same token if you are a kind, caring person who goes above and beyond to listen to nurses, have a good bedside manner, follow up without prompting on necessary items etc they find that out. I can’t tell you how many emails I would get from people in various hospital systems that would send both good words and a cautionary word about an applicant.

Our program is a top peds HemOnc and half of our doctors are DO. The division director doesn’t care about the title MD vs DO. At all.

Make sure you apply to many. And look at where their students are coming from? In my state we don’t accept many OOS med students. We just don’t. Need to look at that list and curate it properly.

And as I said, while I was fellowship, many of the coordinators I knew across med student and residency in our school and at national conferences all said the same things. Stats are very important for med school but not the only thing.

 

[deleted1022107]

Lol ok paid carib/western Atlantic representative

As a future doctor you would be wise to do research on my previous comments with various schools. I am very pro Caribbean because they fill a massive need. I tend to like a few programs over others. The fact that most people post stay away from Caribbean programs is not helpful. You are telling 65% of applicants to basically give up on being a doctor if they do not score in the 75% on a mcat. You have plenty of capable doctors not given chances.

 

[deleted1022107]

You're literally saying this to a OP who has top tier stats who has the potential to get into any US MD school.
Your advice is bs but even more so in this situation.

People with “top tier” stats won’t be going to a Caribbean school anyway. So my message was in general regarding an applicant that can’t get into a us med program and needs other options.

 

[deleted1022107]

Actually this is the base case coming from the Caribbean. If you “jack around”, you probably won’t match all.

The few people who match derm each year from Caribbean are probably sons/daughters of PDs

You sound like you have an excuse for everything here. Which one is it? Don’t go to a Caribbean school you won’t match… oh well if you do match you are prob a family member of a residency director. Hilarious.

 

[Isoval]

As a future doctor you would be wise to do research on my previous comments with various schools. I am very pro Caribbean because they fill a massive need. I tend to like a few programs over others. The fact that most people post stay away from Caribbean programs is not helpful. You are telling 65% of applicants to basically give up on being a doctor if they do not score in the 75% on a mcat. You have plenty of capable doctors not given chances. “We could continue this battle of wits but I see you are unarmed”

The reason we post this is because going to the Caribbean is an extremely expensive gamble at every step of the way.

You are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a literally coin-toss shot at finishing the program, statistically-speaking, and then you get to flip the coin again to see if you get to match into, basically, family medicine or rural IM.

If you want to be a doctor, don’t f*** up your undergraduate and/or subsequent SMP/PB so badly that it is impossible to gain admission to a US MD or DO school.

Caribbean medical school is not, and never will be, a statistically sound financial investment.

 

[deleted1022107]

The reason we post this is because going to the Caribbean is an extremely expensive gamble at every step of the way.

You are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a literally coin-toss shot at finishing the program, statistically-speaking, and then you get to flip the coin again to see if you get to match into, basically, family medicine or rural IM.

If you want to be a doctor, don’t f*** up your undergraduate and/or subsequent SMP/PB so badly that it is impossible to gain admission to a US MD or DO school.

Caribbean medical school is not, and never will be, a statistically sound financial investment.

You need to take a step back and understand that the obstacles in peoples lives are different than yours. Try telling someone forced to work 3 jobs to pay for their families bills in college that they just have to try harder. People have unique hardships and life when they were 18-19 years old. They deserve a chance that they won’t be getting from us medical schools. Also you are talking to 65% of applicants to medical school are denied to every us program they apply to. Students with 3.4 gpas and 498 mcat scores are capable doctors and tend to thrive. But these people are never given a chance. So is there a risk sure there is. But with the top tier Caribbean programs putting out high 80-low 90% march rates yearly it’s with the gamble to get you to your goal. Now throw in the fact they can go to a Caribbean program and when they match into a non for Profit hospital in 10 years their loans are forgiven then it makes the gamble less.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

You sound like you have an excuse for everything here. Which one is it? Don’t go to a Caribbean school you won’t match… oh well if you do match you are prob a family member of a residency director. Hilarious.

Outside of Peds and ER, US IMGs have less than 50% chance of matching according to Charting Outcomes. Yes, it is possible, but to spend that kind of coin on a 50% chance of matching is too rich for most, imo. Some people have unlimited funds, and I get that. What does one do when they don't match and the student loans come due? That stuff about working for a nonnprofitd for a decade and getting student loan relief is sketchy. Remember, the match rates Caribbean schools post are for students who actually graduate. They don't include the ones who start and are unable to graduate. The rate for US med schools who don't graduate at all is in the range of 2 to 5%. I'm sure it's much higher for Caribbean schools,, but that data is very hard to find.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you can’t score above a 500 on the MCAT, you’re at a major risk of failing boards. A single board failure makes most Caribbean grads doa

 

[Goro]

Students with 3.4 gpas and 498 mcat scores are capable doctors and tend to thrive. But these people are never given a chance.

Yes there's a reason they're not given a chance. It's because they're high risk students. And whether or not they will be be wonderful doctors is only part of the equation. The more important part is whether they will be good medical students.

And going to a Caribbean school with stats like that is that is ample opportunity for the school to eventually fail them out, because they will struggle in medical school

Stop projecting, and stop shilling

 

[deleted1022107]

Yes there's a reason they're not given a chance. It's because they're high risk students. And whether or not they will be be wonderful doctors is only part of the equation. The more important part is whether they will be good medical students.

And going to a Caribbean school with stats like that is that is ample opportunity for the school to eventually fail them out, because they will struggle in medical school

Stop projecting, and stop shilling

You have no clue why individuals performed they way they did. Maybe they were going through cancer treatment or working full time to support their families. What if putting them in strictly a medical environment without working 50 hours a week works? Just because someone may have been high risk when they were 18 years old does not mean they still are at 22. So remember these things before you judge someone’s desire to go down an alternative path.

 

[Goro]

You have no clue why individuals performed they way they did. Maybe they were going through cancer treatment or working full time to support their families. What if putting them in strictly a medical environment without working 50 hours a week works? Just because someone may have been high risk when they were 18 years old does not mean they still are at 22. So remember these things before you judge someone’s desire to go down an alternative path.

Those are excuses. They people like that can also redeem themselves by doing either a post back, or special Masters program. But no, they took the easy way out and that actually says something.

 

[deleted1022107]

Those are excuses. They people like that can also redeem themselves by doing either a post back, or special Masters program. But no, they took the easy way out and that actually says something.

Or they don’t want to wait another 2-3 years to start medical school by scoring 3 points higher on a mcat or to go from a 3.4 gpa to a 3.7. Again these are highly capable students that make great physicians. Often times they are older students as well. Just because a Caribbean school is not for you does not mean it’s a not a great option for someone else. You think they took the east way out by working two jobs and being a full time student?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Going to a Caribbean school is not a Great option as you suggest. Other posters has said why and provided data to confirm their comments. Those schools are predatory, taking advantage of students with great desire to become physicians without the academic ability to succeed. Sure, some get through, not the majority by far from initial admissions numbers, and match in FM and IM programs at community hospitals with mediocre training. These high risk schools are schools of last resort for a reason. But, life is full of choices. Make good ones as the School of Life can have very expensive tuition. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'm surprised (but not really) this thread is still active.

Just note the summary for 2022 Charting Outcomes. I don't know if we posted this (I saw the one for US-based seniors in a different thread).

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting-Outcomes-IMG-2022_Final.pdf

 

[Goro]

Or they don’t want to wait another 2-3 years to start medical school by scoring 3 points higher on a mcat or to go from a 3.4 gpa to a 3.7. Again these are highly capable students that make great physicians. Often times they are older students as well. Just because a Caribbean school is not for you does not mean it’s a not a great option for someone else. You think they took the east way out by working two jobs and being a full time student?

No, they made bad choices by trying to be a student when they weren't at their best.

On top of that, the entire process of medical education is an exercise in delayed gratification.

 

[deleted1022107]

No, they made bad choices by trying to be a student when they weren't at their best.

On top of that, the entire process of medical education is an exercise in delayed gratification.

You couldn’t be more incorrect. You are talking to 65% of applicants that are not ever admitted to a medical school in the us. You can’t possibly buy that someone that performed low their freshmen year would not be a capable doctor. Based on your advice somone that has tried to take thr mcat 3 times and hasn’t scored a 500 but has a masters in biomedical sciences demonstrating they can handle high level courses should never be a doctor. In this case did they take the easy way out? Bottom line there is not enough spots for capable doctors and top Caribbean schools Fill a need. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one

 

[Goro]

You couldn’t be more incorrect. You are talking to 65% of applicants that are not ever admitted to a medical school in the us. You can’t possibly buy that someone that performed low their freshmen year would not be a capable doctor. Based on your advice somone that has tried to take thr mcat 3 times and hasn’t scored a 500 but has a masters in biomedical sciences demonstrating they can handle high level courses should never be a doctor. In this case did they take the easy way out? Bottom line there is not enough spots for capable doctors and top Caribbean schools Fill a need. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one

Wow, you're missing the point. No, let me elaborate. You are not understanding what I am saying.

It's not about being a good doctor, it's about being able to demonstrate that one can handle Medical school.

Are you a current Caribbean student, or graduate? If so you made your bed now you lie in it

 

[Dr Meow]

Or they don’t want to wait another 2-3 years to start medical school by scoring 3 points higher on a mcat or to go from a 3.4 gpa to a 3.7. Again these are highly capable students that make great physicians. Often times they are older students as well. Just because a Caribbean school is not for you does not mean it’s a not a great option for someone else. You think they took the east way out by working two jobs and being a full time student?

You're also telling an older student to potentially lose their entire life savings and debt which they cannot ever recover from

 

[deleted1022107]

Wow, you're missing the point. No, let me elaborate. You are not understanding what I am saying.

It's not about being a good doctor, it's about being able to demonstrate that one can handle Medical school.

Are you a current Caribbean student, or graduate? If so you made your bed now you lie in it

You're also telling an older student to potentially lose their entire life savings and debt which they cannot ever recover from

Lol wow this is a bit dramatic. There is no guarantee for anyone to be a doctor. However you put in the work and you will be fine. Go to one of the top Caribbean schools, seek out and the support. You should never go into any situation saying I’m going to fail

 

[deleted1022107]

Wow, you're missing the point. No, let me elaborate. You are not understanding what I am saying.

It's not about being a good doctor, it's about being able to demonstrate that one can handle Medical school.

Are you a current Caribbean student, or graduate? If so you made your bed now you lie in it

I went to a MD program and I advocate for Caribbean graduates because I see what they are capable of. They have came into our residency program and performed well and in more times then not out performed US students in rotations. So every chance I get I prefer to uplift students about a Caribbean option vs killing their dreams. So if you want to keep pushing the narrative feel free but I am always going to challenge you and others on it.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

You put in the work and you will be fine? What evidence supports this notion? What are their graduation rates? You don't know the denominator, i.e., the number of students who started and and later who graduate and match. We dont know their board pass rate or what percentage they allow to take boards. So the people who aren't successful are because they don't work hard enough? Med schools use metrics that identify students at risk of not being successful. Caribbean schools don't. I agree they provide a last,( expensive), shot for students who can't get in to American med schools. You might squeak through and barely pass boards. You then have like a 50 to 60% chance of matching a residency spot in FM, IM, or Peds. Charting outcomes, Tabel 6 shows a mean Usmle score of 221 for matched US IMGs. Thats like 30% tile. And thes are the ones successfully matched. You can expound on the quality of Caribbean grads, but a 31%tile is not a very good score. What percentage of their grads scored lower? Quite frankly, im surprised they matched as well as they did. These will be community programs of varying quality. We have evidence it can be done. We don't have evidence of just how many get through. Caribbean schools are a dead end for many students.

 

[Goro]

Lol wow this is a bit dramatic. There is no guarantee for anyone to be a doctor. However you put in the work and you will be fine. Go to one of the top Caribbean schools, seek out and the support. You should never go into any situation saying I’m going to fail

Your mindset on the bolded is the problem and why we're trying to inject a dose of reality here.

If you go into the Residency forum, you can find tons of posts from Carib grads who made it through the thresher, but didn't match. They're Uber drivers, lab techs, or Walmart clerks now. They're worked hard but they certainly didn't "end up fine."