Acceptance by Undergraduate Major

[JDAWG07]

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Check it out:

http://www.tcnj.edu/~engsci/med_accept.pdf


Pretty interesting that physical science and humanities majors fair so much better than biological science majors.

 

[VFrank]

I imagine that's because so many more bio majors apply to med school than humanities majors.

 

[Darko]

French majors are more likely to get in than Biochem majors? Ouch!

 

[Quynh2007]

i think its only because they have a higher overall gpa. i think in general, hard science classes have lower means and medians than most others.

 

[Medikit]

I imagine that's because so many more bio majors apply to med school than humanities majors.

That doesn't really explain it, the acceptance rate should be close to the same, no matter how many students of a particular major are applying. Your argument would hold some weight if humanity major acceptance rates fluctuated above and below during other years, but they do not.

i think its only because they have a higher overall gpa. i think in general, hard science classes have lower means and medians than most others.

That's not the case, check out the acceptance rates for other science majors. Physical science classes are typically more difficult to get good grades in, yet these students fair much better than bio majors.

I believe the reason why biology majors fair so poorly as applicants is that many of the pre-med students majoring in biology are students who have been intent on becoming a doctor prior to their freshman year in college and were biology majors specifically because the pre-reqs required for medical school mirror the classes necessary for completion of a biology major. These students are very comitted to going to medschool and will apply no matter what their numbers are. Non-biology majors have more pre-meds that considered medicine later on, perhaps in the middle or near the end of their undergraduate careers. These students are more likely to remove themselves from the process if they do not have the numbers because they spent less of their time comitted to the idea of medicine.

That's my theory anyways. If what I wrote doesn't apply to you, don't bother writing it since you are merely providing anecdotal evidence. If you have a different idea I'm all ears. Another theory is that the type of student who can pursue another major while taking MedCAT/Medical school prereqs will also be the type of student who can get good grades and do well on the MedCAT thus making them better applicants.

 

[vhawk]

Ok, here's another theory, and if you are a bio major feel free to tune out now, cause this will probably offend you....

At my school, most of the bio majors fall into one of two categories. Pre-meds doing the minimum extra work, like the previous post mentioned, and people who found chemistry or physics too hard, but still want to go to med school, and so just slip into the MUCH easier major, at least at my school. I dont know if its the case at all schools, but being a double major I can say with absolute certainty that the people in bio are there because its easier than chem, especially the pre-meds.

 

[Rogue_Leader]

I think the percentages are higher because applications were down that year. They've been going down for the past few years, I think the 03-04 application season was the first upward trend in applications in the past 4 or 5 years. Also, other non-pre med majors (like french or engineering and such) tend to have higher acceptance rates, since the applicants tend to be more self selective. An engineer with a 3.4 GPA might be hesitant to play the med schol application game when, since he'll know that the GPA isn't all that competitive for med school, but he could get a pretty good job out of college with that GPA. So it tends to be only the more competitive people applying for med school. As opposed to bio-ish majors, most of them do bio knowing that they want to do medicine, and so even if they aren't the most competitive applicants, they'll still apply. I don't know much about the bio market, but I don't think there are a whole lot of opportunities for people with just a BS in Bio, so the higher number of applicants leads to lower acceptance percentages.

 

[phosphorylation]

i know this is offensive, but i totally agree with hawk....think about it....chem major? you have to take a crap load of math and calculus based physics, p-chem...and when i say math, i mean math, as in linear algenra, calc 4, etc...and when you say physics...well, same as chem....even more math, lot more physics, and a lot tougher classes...bio? the hardest courses i can think are probably ochem, which you have to take for med school anyways...im a bio major by the way...lol...

 

[Quynh2007]

depends on the college and degree (b.s. or b.a.) i guess. i just know humanities and social science are on the most part easier than physical sciencesat my school. plus, they are less stressful and less competitive. my roommate was a bio major, she has pretty much all her classes picked out already, and i'm able to take whatever I want and am interested, that's why i can pick easy classes.

 

[TexPre-Med]

Yall, this is simple. When science majors enter college as pre-meds (assuming they make it through to senior year), they will apply to med school despite their g.p.a. and MCAT scores. This is especially the case since there isn't much else to do with a Bio B.S./B.A. When a humanities major decides to go medical, he/she almost always has a high g.p.a. and will only apply if they get a high MCAT. It is hard to explain, but non-science majors don't apply unless they have very competetive scores (maybe cuz they have something to fall back on). Science majors usually apply despite their scores. This is why percentage wise, other majors have better acceptance rates.

 

[Friday]

Yall, this is simple. When science majors enter college as pre-meds (assuming they make it through to senior year), they will apply to med school despite their g.p.a. and MCAT scores. This is especially the case since there isn't much else to do with a Bio B.S./B.A. When a humanities major decides to go medical, he/she almost always has a high g.p.a. and will only apply if they get a high MCAT. It is hard to explain, but non-science majors don't apply unless they have very competetive scores (maybe cuz they have something to fall back on). Science majors usually apply despite their scores. This is why percentage wise, other majors have better acceptance rates.

True that. An english major who got C's in orgo will/can opt for law school instead. A bio or chem major who got C's in orgo will still apply to med school hoping to get in on the strength of other parts of their application. Think about it, I bet the % of bio major acceptees to competitive consulting & i-banking firms is higher than that of econ majors.

On another note ...... ahem .... it seems the people who have the highest chance of acceptance are ................................... you ready for this?? .............

BIOMEDICAL ENGINEERING MAJORS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just remember that next time someone starts one of those threads wondering if they should do BME or if its too hard for medical school.

 

[calstudent]

Maybe med. schools also like the diversity of viewpoints brought into their classes by English majors, sociology majors, etc?

 

[principessa]

Has anyone considered the possibility that humanities and physical science majors are more attractive to med schools? I'm saying this as a bio-type major, so you can't accuse me of trying to make myself look better. Think about it - humanities people tend to be interesting, do lots of neat things outside of medicine and the sciences, express themselves well, etc. Physics and chemistry are just plain hard, so they probably figure if you can do well in that you can do well in med school.

 

[BlackstarNYC]

Go Econ majors!

I can't believe there were only 383 in that entering class.

 

[freaker]

Part of it is that you really have to want to study medicine to apply to med schools. It's a heck of a lot easier to study for the LSAT, and the required GPA is much lower. You can slide into a top 14 law school with a 3.3 gpa, afterall. It's only three years to the $$$, too. No blood, no guts, and Zegna suits (ah, the life of the naive!).

As others have said, pretty much all the bio majors apply to med school.

You're also going to catch some flack as a humanities major and get used to people questioning you (and thus you questioning your career ambitions). I am so glad that the med school admissions officers are making these decisions and not Joe Schmoe physician or science professors.

I've had several docs look at me kind of funny when I tell them that I was an English/Art History major. A doc started explaining to me that the small intestine came before the large intestine and asked me if I had studied any anatomy. One of the techs was like, "Oh, so it'll probably take you six years to finish med school or something." Another one of my profs questioned whether I could hack it in med school as an English major before he finally started taking me seriously when I resorted to dropping my MCAT percentile on him.

That kind of crap gets old, and it could drive a number of people to just convince themselves to take the path of least resistance. I remember almost being scared to leave the bio major behind and explore. Once I had, I never came back. I bet a lot of people who did the same found other avenues that interested them, and the ones who applied to med school really wanted it/had the scores to match.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Of the pre-meds that I know, the bio majors are the least accomplished in terms of extra-curriculars. GPA I don't know, and MCAT seems to pretty much be the same as non-bio majors. But as for outside activities, my bio premed friends are members of the premed society, maybe take part in intramural sports or some URM club, but not much beyond that.
I dont know if that holds true for many other schools. There certainly are many impressive biology majors out there, but I don't know 'em...

 

[tgerwuds]

Maybe med. schools also like the diversity of viewpoints brought into their classes by English majors, sociology majors, etc?

This one I agree with. Do you know what bio majors do when they don't get into med school? - flip burgers. I don't mean to be condescending, but the other majors lend themselves to better jobs... aka pharmaceutical companies.

As a corollary, a BA for a science degree looks like nothing compared to a BS.

 

[Wiggy73]

As a corollary, a BA for a science degree looks like nothing compared to a BS.

At my school, the only difference between BS and BA is that BA won't count applied hours like engineering classes or internships. BA is actually more restrictive.

Back on topic, I think another factor is med schools' increased emphasis on treating the patient, not just the disease. They may feel that nonscience majors might have personal attributes, like for instance good communications skills from an English major, that will make them good doctors. There's more to medicine than knowing science.

 

[automaton]

Maybe med. schools also like the diversity of viewpoints brought into their classes by English majors, sociology majors, etc?

yes, it's also because biology majors are unimaginative nitwits.

my bio premed friends are members of the premed society

see what i mean?

I remember almost being scared to leave the bio major behind and explore. Once I had, I never came back. I bet a lot of people who did the same found other avenues that interested them.

exactly.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Yall, this is simple. When science majors enter college as pre-meds (assuming they make it through to senior year), they will apply to med school despite their g.p.a. and MCAT scores. This is especially the case since there isn't much else to do with a Bio B.S./B.A. When a humanities major decides to go medical, he/she almost always has a high g.p.a. and will only apply if they get a high MCAT. It is hard to explain, but non-science majors don't apply unless they have very competetive scores (maybe cuz they have something to fall back on). Science majors usually apply despite their scores. This is why percentage wise, other majors have better acceptance rates.

Your explanation has 3 major problems:
1st: It makes no sense.
2nd: It attempts to rationalize why bio majors have lower acceptance rates to med school than humanities majors.
3rd: It makes no sense.

No, it's not quite that "simple." Where is the data showing that the premeds majoring in humanities only decided to go into medicine halfway through their college career? Where is the data showing that all the bio majors came into college as premeds and knew they wanted to be doctors since age 7? From what you're saying, the humanities majors just switched tracks from careers in academia, law, business, diplomacy, or **insert anything else here** to medicine once they got the high MCAT score...if they didn't earn the high MCAT score...they would've just taken their 4.0 humanities GPA and applied to grad school or law school.

I have the data about the average MCAT scores among the different majors and the evidence is damning. Bio majors: be prepared to feel embarrassed. Humanities majors TIED bio majors on the BS section of the MCAT and score substantially higher on the VR section (as expected). If I remember correctly, I think the humanities majors even had a higher average PS score than the bio majors.

I think the reason that humanities majors have a higher acceptance rate to med school is because they DON'T fall into the "cookie-cutter" trap that most bio majors are happy to place themselves in. Out of the 30,000+ med school applicants in one year, over 20,000+ of those were bio majors. This means all of those students had the same classes on their transcripts and I'm guessing most of those students probably also did the same cookie-cutter, biobot extra-curriculars (premed society, hospital volunteering, lab research, etc).

While none of these extra-curriculars are "bad" and certainly will not reflect negatively on the student...doing these ECs will make it excessively difficult to DIFFERENTIATE onseself from the legions of other premeds applying in the same app cycle. I'm guessing it was much easier for the humanities majors to differentiate themselves from the legions of other premeds because their extra-curricular interests were more varied, they had classes on their transcript that most adcom members aren't used to seeing (think "Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzche" vs. Microbiology). The key here is not NOT be biobotic. I know a philosophy major who is applying to med school this cycle and he works for two non-profit organizations, is helping a professor write a book that will be published in about two years, and spent a semester abroad teaching English to children in the Phillipines. I think his list of ECs (and the ones I mentioned are just the highlights) will help separate himself from the legions of people applying with hospital volunteering, lab research, etc.

Well, those are my opinions. I'll be back to post the links to the average MCAT scores by major...I can't right now because I'm at an internet cafe.

 

[derf]

Your explanation has 3 major problems:
1st: It makes no sense.
2nd: It attempts to rationalize why bio majors have lower acceptance rates to med school than humanities majors.
3rd: It makes no sense.

No, it's not quite that "simple." Where is the data showing that the premeds majoring in humanities only decided to go into medicine halfway through their college career? Where is the data showing that all the bio majors came into college as premeds and knew they wanted to be doctors since age 7? From what you're saying, the humanities majors just switched tracks from careers in academia, law, business, diplomacy, or **insert anything else here** to medicine once they got the high MCAT score...if they didn't earn the high MCAT score...they would've just taken their 4.0 humanities GPA and applied to grad school or law school.

I have the data about the average MCAT scores among the different majors and the evidence is damning. Bio majors: be prepared to feel embarrassed. Humanities majors TIED bio majors on the BS section of the MCAT and score substantially higher on the VR section (as expected). If I remember correctly, I think the humanities majors even had a higher average PS score than the bio majors.

I think the reason that humanities majors have a higher acceptance rate to med school is because they DON'T fall into the "cookie-cutter" trap that most bio majors are happy to place themselves in. Out of the 30,000+ med school applicants in one year, over 20,000+ of those were bio majors. This means all of those students had the same classes on their transcripts and I'm guessing most of those students probably also did the same cookie-cutter, biobot extra-curriculars (premed society, hospital volunteering, lab research, etc).

While none of these extra-curriculars are "bad" and certainly will not reflect negatively on the student...doing these ECs will make it excessively difficult to DIFFERENTIATE onseself from the legions of other premeds applying in the same app cycle. I'm guessing it was much easier for the humanities majors to differentiate themselves from the legions of other premeds because their extra-curricular interests were more varied, they had classes on their transcript that most adcom members aren't used to seeing (think "Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzche" vs. Microbiology). The key here is not NOT be biobotic. I know a philosophy major who is applying to med school this cycle and he works for two non-profit organizations, is helping a professor write a book that will be published in about two years, and spent a semester abroad teaching English to children in the Phillipines. I think his list of ECs (and the ones I mentioned are just the highlights) will help separate himself from the legions of people applying with hospital volunteering, lab research, etc.

Well, those are my opinions. I'll be back to post the links to the average MCAT scores by major...I can't right now because I'm at an internet cafe.

you speak the truth. that's why i didn't major in the natural sciences. unfortunately, its all about standing out

 

[pushkin]

Not meaning to offend anyone here--but the following is slightly anti-bio major in tone. Just so ya know...

I agree about the biobot stuff! How true that is. Also I think a lot of standard-issue bio major premeds scoff at the humanities without realizing what they're really saying. Like the comment about gpa's being higher for humanities majors. Med schools aren't stupid enough to let things be skewed in favor of easier majors. (Anyway, by that logic, and assuming the same stereotypes about pre-professional majors that are being applied to French majors et al here--why aren't nursing and med tech majors better represented?) By the way, I was a humanities major and my science gpa is way higher than my cumulative gpa. I also took the hard science classes, like calc and p-chem, and still I came out ahead in the sciences. This is because as a humanities major, the classes I took weren't just the intro ones that so many premeds are familiar with. They get harder as you get further along. They teach skills that are really useful, like the verbal reasoning stuff.

I hate to say it but a lot of bio major premeds come across as really dull and don't show appreciation for the world around them. I know this isn't always true, but people whose whole lives have been geared toward med school and nothing else often don't seem to have much to say that's very interesting. I suppose med schools try to put together an interesting class.

 

[TexPre-Med]

Berkeley, did you even read my statement? It makes complete sense, and you helped prove it! I never said anyone had better or worse scores. Humanities may have equal MCAT scores, and I don't care. The truth is that a philosophy major may take the MCAT and do horribly, like any Bio major may also do. However, the philosophy major who IS already helping publish papers and has 2 jobs would stick with philosophy and NOT apply to med school if they had lower MCAT scores. Why screw up something that good? However, Bio/science students have everything riding on MED school. Science guys are GOING to apply no matter what their scores. Do I have proof of this, NO. It is obvious. A similar analogy if you don't understand: After all, if something smells like poo, and looks like poo, it probably is poo! Ok that probably had little relevance, but it is damn funny!

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Berkeley, did you even read my statement? It makes complete sense, and you helped prove it! I never said anyone had better or worse scores. Humanities may have equal MCAT scores, and I don't care. The truth is that a philosophy major may take the MCAT and do horribly, like any Bio major may also do. However, the philosophy major who IS already helping publish papers and has 2 jobs would stick with philosophy and NOT apply to med school if they had lower MCAT scores. Why screw up something that good? However, Bio/science students have everything riding on MED school. Science guys are GOING to apply no matter what their scores. Do I have proof of this, NO. It is obvious. A similar analogy if you don't understand: After all, if something smells like poo, and looks like poo, it probably is poo! Ok that probably had little relevance, but it is damn funny!

The poo analogy was definitely great evidence...thanks for your input! Yes...unfortunately..I did read your post and what you're saying still doesn't make sense. The philosophy major would not just quit the premed track after getting a low MCAT score...why? Didn't the philosophy major also have to take the same premed prerequisite courses that everyone else had to take? Didn't the philosophy major also have to study 2384739237 hours for the MCAT like everyone else?

In all probability, didn't the philosophy major have to invest time and money for an MCAT prep course (these are becoming standard among applicants now)? Why quit after enduring all these hurdles? Doesn't "premed" just mean a college student who wants to attend med school? Does "premed" imply that a student is a biology major? Sorry, your argument just doesn't stand up against logic..and no, your explanation is not "obvious." I agree with you on one thing though...poo definitely does stink.

For those interestd in seeing evidence..here are the MCAT averages by MAJOR: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2003/mcatgpabymaj1.htm

Notice how the humanities majors TIE the bio majors on the BS section of the MCAT and have a HIGHER PS score as well as a substantially higher VR score. In addition to having a higher overall average MCAT score, the humanities majors also had comparable science and non-science GPAs. Seeing as the average NON-science gpa was actually LOWER for humanities majors, why are people whining and crying about humanities majors having higher GPAs? The fact of the matter is...the humanities majors who apply have LOWER cumulative GPAs than the biology majors. However, humanities majors still enjoy a higher acceptance rate because their MCAT scores are higher (on average) and they don't fit into the biobotic "cookie-cutter" mold that practically every applicant fits into.

 

[An Yong]

Does anyone find it strange that they put math/statistics in that table... considering they only had a sample size of 241??? Compared to say 20,000 for bio majors 😕

 

[thackl]

No representation for engineers in this forum 👎

 

[Xandie]

This is an old argument, but I just wanted to comment on the BA/BS thing. It really depends on the school--my undergrad only offered BAs, so a BA in biology looked fine. No schools asked me about it, and my undergrad has people at prestigious universities, with their BAs in Biology and Chemistry (the only majors we have... no BME, biochem, mol bio, etc.). Schools usually know what type of undergrad they're dealing with, and adjust. A BA from MIT might look sketch, but not from a liberal arts school.

 

[WatchingWaiting]

Notice how the humanities majors TIE the bio majors on the BS section of the MCAT and have a HIGHER PS score as well as a substantially higher VR score. In addition to having a higher overall average MCAT score, the humanities majors also had comparable science and non-science GPAs. Seeing as the average NON-science gpa was actually LOWER for humanities majors, why are people whining and crying about humanities majors having higher GPAs? The fact of the matter is...the humanities majors who apply have LOWER cumulative GPAs than the biology majors. However, humanities majors still enjoy a higher acceptance rate because their MCAT scores are higher (on average) and they don't fit into the biobotic "cookie-cutter" mold that practically every applicant fits into.

Actually, the MCAT data is corroborative to the theory of self-selection among the non-bio applicants. Preparation for med school is a continuous weeding out process, beginning in general chemistry and continuing through orgo and the rest of the requirements. A bio major who finds himself with a 3.3 gpa after having completed a year of pre-med requirements is probably more likely to continue in the pre-med core due to his dedication to the cause ("I must be a doctor") then is a non-bio major, since the non-bio major was probably more open to other things to begin with. In short, the issue is that people's selection of majors is probably correlated with how open they are to doing a non-medicine career, and since bio majors likely have the highest committment to doing medicine, they are more likely to persist in completing the pre-med work, the MCAT, and applying, even if their performance along the way indicates that they probably should be reconsidering their options.

 

[dmoney41]

Philosophy majors represent. 👍

#3 behind BME and pre-medical (schools still offer that? what the hell?).

 

[thackl]

which is why law school is a joke.

There is a law school out there for everyone and anyone.

 

[Jason110]

Somebody mentioned earlier that biomedical engineering majors have the highest acceptance rate out of any major. Why do you think that is? Thoughts.

Jason

 

[dmoney41]

Self selection to the hardest core of wannabe premeds. Nobody goes BME unless they want to be a doctor because its value in the job market compared to traditional engineering disciplines is low and the workload is extremely high. The people who wanted a major where they could get into med school without excessive work went biology, and the people who wanted a major where they would have no job prospects went sociology.

 

[Rogue_Leader]

A combination of several factors. BME is a relatively small major, even for engineering; double E's and mechies for example really blow BME out of the water in terms of number of graduates. Also, a BME with a 3.4 GPA could get a pretty good job out of college, whereas he'd make a barely competitive med applicant. So BME's tend to be a more self-selected group of highly competitive applicants.