Active duty obligation after GMO tour and Military residency

[EMTB2MD]

Hello everyone,

I will be applying for a 4 year HPSP this coming year (no prior military service) and was curious what the active duty obligation is following a GMO tour. Without a GMO tour I understand that my ADO payback for a military residency and 4 years of medical school is paid back concurrently. Assuming one went straight through (no GMO) and did a 4 year military residency the payback would only be 4 years of active duty (4+4 but paid back concurrently). This is what I was told by more than one recruiter.

If someone didn't go straight through and happened to do 4 years of a GMO tour followed by 4 years of a military residency then what happens with the ADO payback? Would I be obligated for an additional 4 years? If I separated from the service immediately following my GMO tours and did a civilian residency would I be able to use the GI bill to supplement my civilian residency?

Thanks so much!

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[colbgw02]

4-year scholarship + straight through training at any AD residency 5-years in length or less = 4 year ADSO at end of residency (7-9 years total AD)

4-year scholarship + internship + 4 years GMO + 4 more years of AD residency = 4 year ADSO at end of residency (13 years total AD)

Lots of permutations in between that might happen, too.

Yes, but only the stipend portion, which I believe is equal to E-5 BAH for the relevant location.

 

[EMTB2MD]

Thanks for your reply. Just to make sure I understand this completely:

The 4 year ADSO for a military residency is paid back at the same time as the HPSP scholarship so I will only have to do 4 years of active duty after completing a residency.

It seems that doing a GMO tour immediately after internship automatically adds extra years onto your ADSO if you then complete a military residency since you can't pay back the residency and the HPSP scholarship concurrently.

Thanks once again!

4-year scholarship + straight through training at any AD residency 5-years in length or less = 4 year ADSO at end of residency (7-9 years total AD

4-year scholarship + internship + 4 years GMO + 4 more years of AD residency = 4 year ADSO at end of residency (13 years total AD)

Lots of permutations in between that might happen, too.

Yes, but only the stipend portion, which I believe is equal to E-5 BAH for the relevant location.

 

[colbgw02]

Thanks for your reply. Just to make sure I understand this completely:

The 4 year ADSO for a military residency is paid back at the same time as the HPSP scholarship so I will only have to do 4 years of active duty after completing a residency.

It seems that doing a GMO tour immediately after internship automatically adds extra years onto your ADSO if you then complete a military residency since you can't pay back the residency and the HPSP scholarship concurrently.

Thanks once again!

You've got the numbers right, but I'm not sure you're tracking the concept, which is more important considering how convoluted it can get.

You can pay back residency and HPSP obligation concurrently. It's just that if you complete a GMO tour before doing residency, you have already paid back part of your HPSP time. That means that the obligation resulting from your residency typically exceeds the remaining time on your HPSP obligation, effectively keeping you in uniform longer than if you have not been a GMO.

The exception is the following: 4-year HPSP + internship + 2-year GMO + 2-year residency = 2-year post-residency obligation. This person spends the same amount of time in uniform as someone who does a 3-year residency continuously and then pays back their time.

 

[Perrotfish]

Thanks for your reply. Just to make sure I understand this completely:

The 4 year ADSO for a military residency is paid back at the same time as the HPSP scholarship so I will only have to do 4 years of active duty after completing a residency.

It seems that doing a GMO tour immediately after internship automatically adds extra years onto your ADSO if you then complete a military residency since you can't pay back the residency and the HPSP scholarship concurrently.

Thanks once again!

1) GMO time pays back your obligation.

2) When you do a military residency (not counting Intern year) the time you owe coming out of residency is either the time you owed going into residency, or the length of the residency, whichever is more.

3) Intern year is obligation neutral.

So does GMO time add time to your obligation? It depends.

Examples:

1) You owe four years, you do an Intern year and a two year GMO tour, now you owe two years. You do a two year residency (like the rest of an IM, FM, or Peds residency), the length of your obligation going in (two years) is the same as the length of residency (two years). So coming out of residency you only owe two years, no time added

2) You owe four years, you do an Intern year and a three year flight surgery tour. Now you owe one year. Then you do an psych residency (3 years in addition to the Intern year you already did). The length of residency is longer than the amount you owe, so no coming out of residency you owe the length of residency, which is 3 years. So the residency added 2 years to your ADSO.

 

[EMTB2MD]

Thanks guys! I finally understand it now.

 

[sonofva]

All, i owe 4 years total from medical school. If i do a ty internship, a one year gmo tour, 3 year er residency, and a two year fellowship, how much active duty time will i owe after fellowship? Im assuming 5, giving me a total of 12 years in service including the fellowship? Thanks.

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[Onefellswoop87]

All, i owe 4 years total from medical school. If i do a ty internship, a one year gmo tour, 3 year er residency, and a two year fellowship, how much active duty time will i owe after fellowship? Im assuming 5, giving me a total of 12 years in service including the fellowship? Thanks.

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Yes, given that situation, you would serve 12 years active duty. But one year GMO tours are few and far between. I wouldn't bet on a one year tour. Expect two or three years as a GMO. And you'll likely do a utilization tour (praciting as a EM doc) before a fellowship. Going from residency to fellowship is, at least recently, becoming less common in the navy.

 

[Gastrapathy]

@sonofva you have the years right but you need to understand what @Fluffhead87 is saying.

 

[sonofva]

Roger that! Thanks for the help all. I did complete a ty and a one year overseas gmo for the army. Now i am in an er residency. Ill just have to talk with my wife to see if 12 years in the army will ve tolerable for her! Lol

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[psychbender]

While being able to go from residency straight to fellowship used to be normal, that is becoming no longer the case in the Army. At least, that is true for several specialties. I know in anesthesiology, the consultant recently said that no one would be allowed to do a fellowship right out of residency. I have heard similar things from other specialties, but I still know ortho and general surgery, as well as IM, residents that are being allowed to go straight through last year and this year, so maybe EM has an exception, too.

 

[dwb8p]

While being able to go from residency straight to fellowship used to be normal, that is becoming no longer the case in the Army. At least, that is true for several specialties. I know in anesthesiology, the consultant recently said that no one would be allowed to do a fellowship right out of residency. I have heard similar things from other specialties, but I still know ortho and general surgery, as well as IM, residents that are being allowed to go straight through last year and this year, so maybe EM has an exception, too.

Just as a datapoint - there have been numerous army radiology residents picked up fellowship over the last few years including at least 2 this year

 

[Gastrapathy]

So, obviously, you know more about your situation than the rest of us and you've already accomplished the most improbable part (1 year GMO into a competitive residency).

 

[deleted707454]

Also curious about some of these points. I'm hoping to do 4 years HPSP +1 year internship + 4 years GMO.... Will my ADO be complete, and can I then go into a civilian residency (assuming my application timeline is correct)? Is this hard to do? Recruiter mentioned something along the lines of "if you apply for residency (civ or mil) and get in, you will do the residency" w/o any specifics... Still waiting further clarification.

 

[backrow]

Also curious about some of these points. I'm hoping to do 4 years HPSP +1 year internship + 4 years GMO.... Will my ADO be complete.

Yes, your obligation in that situation would be over 4 years after internship.


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