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Acupuncture training for Osteopaths

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Castillonis, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. Castillonis

    Castillonis Junior Member
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    I have an interest in pursuing acupuncture training with additional training in western practioners modifications such as adding myofacial release points to the 15 meridians.

    There is a good paper discussing what acupuncture is and a
    critical analysis of the research that has been done in the
    following paper.
    http://www.annals.org
    http://www.annals.org/cgi/reprint/136/5/374.pdf

    "ACADEMIA AND CLINIC:
    Ted J. Kaptchuk
    Acupuncture: Theory, Efficacy, and Practice
    Ann Intern Med, Mar 2002; 136: 374 - 383."

    I read the AOA's positive statements about accupuncture, but I am unable to find much information about education at osteopathic schools. Google mostly yields results from Osteopaths in the UK which I understand are not physicians like the Osteopaths in the US. I was able to find an elective at Touro and a class for practicing physicians. I am not including the sources of information for these classes.

    In Oregon state Osteopathic physicians are granted the right to practice acupuncture. Though I would also seek licensing under OAA to be able to communicate and share with other acupuncture practitioners.

    http://licenseinfo.oregon.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=license_seng&link_item_id=1574
    "In Oregon, a DO's scope of practice also includes the practice of acupuncture."

    http://www.oregonacupuncture.org/com_main.php

    There are schools which teach chinese medicine and classical chinese medicine. NCNM a naturopathic and classical chinese medicine college have strict attendence policies and emphasize the classical apsect of chinese medicine. I am able to use a model that I don't believe literally or directly, but I will need to be able to correlate the Qi model with knowledge of homeostasis from physiology, biochemistry, OMM for it to be useful to me. There is another school of chinese medicine in Portland that I am not very familiar with; Oriental College of Chinese Medicine.

    http://www.ncnm.edu/academics/classical_chinese_medicine_school.php
    http://www.ocom.edu/communityclinic/aboutacupuncture.html#1

    We are able to describe natural phenomena utilizing simplified models
    that we continue to refine. How accurate is the model inside of the
    specified boundaries. Engineers design antennas using Maxwell's
    equations which work well for this problem, though a model base upon
    quantum mechanics is a better description of the physical phenomena.
    Some economic models utilize game theory because traditional modeling
    methods do not work well.
     
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  3. PublicHealth

    PublicHealth Membership Revoked
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    You might want to look into the International Academy of Medical Acupuncture (IAMA): http://www.iama.edu/

    I have heard from a number of naturopathic physicians, chiropractors, and osteopathic physicians that most states will allow you to practice acupuncture once you complete a fellowship through IAMA. I am aware that New York state requires you to have a Master's degree in order to practice.
     
  4. kahoo99

    kahoo99 Senior Member
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    OUCOM has a joint TCM Osteopathic program that is conducted in China following your graduation.
     
  5. Old_Mil

    Old_Mil Senior Member
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    Personally, I'd go one step beyond what you are proposing and take a look at Vicarious Acupunture Therapy. This is a recently uncovered treatment modality in which acupuncture is performed on small effigies of the patient created by practitioners of traditional Hatian medicine. I'm really excited by the new horizons in patient care that may be opened up by the inclusion of OMT into VAT.
     
  6. Castillonis

    Castillonis Junior Member
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    Old_Mil
    Why don't you bluntly state that your opinion is that acupuncture is not a valid medical procedure. That it is not evidence based medicine instead of alluding that it is one step away from practicing voodoo. I would have much more respect for this type of response.

    I am interested in acupuncture as an added modality to my bag of procedures because of some cases that I have personally seen such as regaining feeling in a hand after losing it due to a knife injury. I have also read about research that has shown that acupuncture is very effective in relieving pain after dental surgery. I do have problems with how the mechanism of action is explained by chinese medicine practioners, just as I will need to explore the polemic cranial sacral modality with an open mind, but skepticism. If I become a primary care physician I would like to offer more possibilities than merely replying that yes your back hurts, would you like some pain medication, or why don't you come back in a few months if you do not have feeling in your hand. In the end I may not be able to offer more than a 15 minute time slot due to group practice guidelines, but at least I will have made an effort to provide better care.

    vicarious -
    1 suffered or done by one person as a substitute for another; "vicarious atonement"
    2 occurring in an abnormal part of the body instead of the usual site involved in that function; "vicarious menstruation"
    3 experienced at secondhand; "read about mountain climbing and felt vicarious excitement"

    effigie -
    1. A crude figure or dummy representing a hated person or group.
    2. A likeness or image, especially of a person.
     
  7. subtle1epiphany

    subtle1epiphany Junior Faculty
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    Actually there are several studies showing that accupuncture and electro-accupuncture cause measurable changes in the nervous system affecting multiple systems. Run a pubmed search for John Longhurst, MD, PhD at the University of California, Irvine. He and several PhDs have been investigating accupuncture and effects on the cardiovascular system. The results are stunning, and this is just one lab. There are several books written on accupuncture by notable MDs and PhDs, check a medical school bookstore.
    MSUCOM has an accupuncture class that is taught outside of the mandatory curriculum. It is available to all MD and DO students. Hopefully another person can give you more info.
     
  8. Old_Mil

    Old_Mil Senior Member
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  9. Castillonis

    Castillonis Junior Member
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    Thanks for the link. I read a few of his writings. Your link to Quackwatch
    in a previous post was added after my response.
     
  10. doc0875

    doc0875 Member
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    Acupuncture? Effective . . . likely. BUT, insurance almost never pay for it & neither will the majority of patients unless you are in an affleunt area.

    David
     
  11. minoregon

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    Chinese medicine programs in Asia, especially Korea and China, are equally or more competitive in their acceptance of students. This medicine has been relied upon for about a thousand years. What can you say for western medicine, which will fast track dangerous chemical compounds and cocktails through a broken approval process in which for-profit pharmaceutical companies leaders also fill key roles in the FDA-without knowing effects for patients. Vioxx. Gardasil.

    My only hesitation about acupuncture mixed with western medicine is that it really is a 180 from the McMedicine that has risen in America. Good TCM is supposed to consider the whole person and really isn't to be practiced on a scale to produce huge profits: just as I think good holistic "western" medicine should really be considering the patient as well: their attitudes (mental status), nutritional status (which is a sorry mess for many americans), and occupational and lifestyle risk factors. It is a whole being approach and from my perspective it looks like there is not a lot of time to consider this in western medicine. So perhaps MDs and DOs, unless they change their practice model to more community based, solo practice, less profit-oriented medicine, it probably won't succeed. Better to prescribe for pain management patients and other patients that might be benefitted see a qualified and well trained Chinese medical practicioner at a community acupuncture clinic. These are springing up in urban centers around the country and for the price of a pharmacy co-pay (fifteen dollars) people can be treated affordably and regularly by an acupuncturist WITHOUT worrying about whether HMOs will pay for their care or not, because it is affordable. I don't see the community acupuncture model working well without some creativity on the part of the physician and definitely won't fit in the standard practice. Why treat people for pain with hepato and nephrotoxins when acupuncture may be effective for the pain and not addictive? I lie.

    I went to acupuncture and to see a functional medicine doctor when traditional MDs failed to treat chronic mono infections and PCOS. My cycle regulated, my chronically swollen throat and lymph nodes in my neck cleared up, and I felt wiggly in a good way, like you feel after you have a great workout. I now go to acupuncture semi-monthly. Whenever my cycle gets irregular or I have pain from ovarian cysts... it helps me in a way that no pills ever could. Coupled with managing my diet and activity.

    Most acupoints are located along nerve pathways or where bones come together. Perhaps the insertion of needles stimulates a gentle immune response. our blood cells are manufactured in the marrow. Working with the combination of nerves and the powerful products of the bone marrow, and the documented release of endorphins during acupuncture, how can anyone say that there is nothing to it? Why deny your patients an affordable form of care which will have them feeling great? I'll take the description of acupuncture as VOODOO as a compliment.
     
    #10 minoregon, Jun 11, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  12. minoregon

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    Also I disagree about insurance. In Oregon my Providence Health Care paid for my appointments. I don't know how well but if enough paperwork is completed by the acupuncturist then they do reimburse acupuncturists for their services.
     
  13. sylvanthus

    sylvanthus EM/IM/CC PGY-6
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    Really necessary to resurrect a 7 year old thread?
     
  14. delta121

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    yes, acupuncture sucks compared to drugs. I work for big pharma as well and we need the patients to continue paying for pain medication and have them take it long term. Acupuncture and natural treatments is something we need to shut down.
     
  15. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus
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    How are you not banned when this is all you have been doing?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
     
  16. Siggy

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    Recently on my (inpatient) FM rotation had a patient who was trying accupunction to help his CHF (EF 10%) and resulting SOB and ascities. It didn't help very much. The lasix, beta blockers, ACEi, and aldactone, on the other hand, did a really good job of controlling his ascities. Strange how that works.
     
  17. tensunit

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    when you have an EF of 10%, you will try any potentially viable solution that someone offers. popular media doesn't help. I had a teenager with a complete spinal cord injury resulting in paraplegia. he read online that accupuncture may help his nervous system/spine heal...and was asking me to get him some accupuncture so he could walk again.

    unfortunately, there are practitioners (from all specialties) that will offer snake oil remedies to make a quick buck. check our your local ivy trained dermatologist who sells their own line of special formulated topical skin creams (cash only) and you'll be just at the tip of the iceberg
     
  18. D0CYAN

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