adapting to sleep deprivation

[Dadoh]

I have become very interested in doing OMFS, but there are two things that are holding me back from making a committed decision to go into OMFS. From what I have heard the one thing you MUST be is committed. One concern I have is that I worry how my family will fair when they don't get see their father and husband much during residency. That is probably a common worry. But, another problem that I have is that I don't function well without having sufficient sleep. I have never been one that can stay up all night to study. If I don't get good quality sleep, my mood will be totally changed the next day. Is this a valid concern for OMFS residency? If it is, what have you guys done to get over it?

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[scalpel2008]

sleep is overrated

 

[Jediwendell]

I have become very interested in doing OMFS, but there are two things that are holding me back from making a committed decision to go into OMFS. From what I have heard the one thing you MUST be is committed. One concern I have is that I worry how my family will fair when they don't get see their father and husband much during residency. That is probably a common worry. But, another problem that I have is that I don't function well without having sufficient sleep. I have never been one that can stay up all night to study. If I don't get good quality sleep, my mood will be totally changed the next day. Is this a valid concern for OMFS residency? If it is, what have you guys done to get over it?

I am the same way and I did okay for my time in OMS. It takes some getting used to, but you can do it. Missing out on your family is another thing. People seem to get by, though.

 

[unlvdmd]

what have you guys done to get over it?

They all do blow. The conservatives do adderall.

 

[tom_servo_dds]

They all do blow. The conservatives do adderall.

Did this make sense to anyone?

 

[scalpel2008]

Did this make sense to anyone?

blow=cocaine
adderall = prescription amphetamine used to treat ADHD but sometimes abused.

i personally do diet mountain dew

 

[tom_servo_dds]

blow=cocaine
adderall = prescription amphetamine used to treat ADHD but sometimes abused.

i personally do diet mountain dew

Thanks for the clarification. BTW, how did you ever manage to get through D school without sleep deprivation?

 

[scalpel2008]

Thanks for the clarification. BTW, how did you ever manage to get through D school without sleep deprivation?

power naps during perio lectures. does anyone really need to know the 17th most prevalent bacteria in the oral cavity? I don't think they've even named it yet.

 

[toofache32]

Your training period is finite and you only have 4-6 years to learn it. You can rest when you're dead.

 

[Dadoh]

Your training period is finite and you only have 4-6 years to learn it. You can rest when you're dead.

That is what I was afraid of. fortunately if I do OMFS, it will be in military so there is only 4 years of training and then restoring faces of soldiers until I get shot, so time-to-rest expectancy in my life may be sooner than in most.

 

[esclavo]

I have become very interested in doing OMFS, but there are two things that are holding me back from making a committed decision to go into OMFS. From what I have heard the one thing you MUST be is committed. One concern I have is that I worry how my family will fair when they don't get see their father and husband much during residency. That is probably a common worry. But, another problem that I have is that I don't function well without having sufficient sleep. I have never been one that can stay up all night to study. If I don't get good quality sleep, my mood will be totally changed the next day. Is this a valid concern for OMFS residency? If it is, what have you guys done to get over it?

I wouldn't do OMFS then....lots of people are interested in OMFS but not all do it. I think it is normal to be interested because OMFS is fascinating. Interest doesn't equal capacity nor does it give commitment. Family suffers in residency no question. Compared to dentistry, family life suffers your entire profession (not like residency but it still sacrifices more than any other area of dentistry and more than many MDs). If your wife and kids will crack if you work 90 hour weeks then spare yourself and your potential program the heartache of your early retirement. It isn't fair to someone who KNOWS they can handle the commitment and investment. The fact that you are even asking this question makes me think you should do a month externship to test out your concern. Then you would know if you should or shouldn't pursue your interest.

 

[aphistis]

You can rest when you're dead.

Or in med school.

 

[HermeytheElf]

Or in med school.

There's an awful lot of med student bashing going on today. I like it..we should do this more often.

 

[Dadoh]

I wouldn't do OMFS then....lots of people are interested in OMFS but not all do it. I think it is normal to be interested because OMFS is fascinating. Interest doesn't equal capacity nor does it give commitment. Family suffers in residency no question. Compared to dentistry, family life suffers your entire profession (not like residency but it still sacrifices more than any other area of dentistry and more than many MDs). If your wife and kids will crack if you work 90 hour weeks then spare yourself and your potential program the heartache of your early retirement. It isn't fair to someone who KNOWS they can handle the commitment and investment. The fact that you are even asking this question makes me think you should do a month externship to test out your concern. Then you would know if you should or shouldn't pursue your interest.

I would have to agree with this sound advice. I am planning on doing a couple of externships to do just that. You are right, not only do I want to test myself to see what it is that I would have to commit to, but I know that there are others out there that who have oral surgery as their first priority in life and of course they should do it.

 

[MIKEJACK5]

I wouldn't do OMFS then....lots of people are interested in OMFS but not all do it. I think it is normal to be interested because OMFS is fascinating. Interest doesn't equal capacity nor does it give commitment. Family suffers in residency no question. Compared to dentistry, family life suffers your entire profession (not like residency but it still sacrifices more than any other area of dentistry and more than many MDs). If your wife and kids will crack if you work 90 hour weeks then spare yourself and your potential program the heartache of your early retirement. It isn't fair to someone who KNOWS they can handle the commitment and investment. The fact that you are even asking this question makes me think you should do a month externship to test out your concern. Then you would know if you should or shouldn't pursue your interest.

I thought that once you went into private practice, OMFS was as intense or relaxed as one basically would like. For example, you could live the derm-type lifestyle working 4 days a week with very little call or you could have a practice that is based on longer and more tedious surgeries and work longer hours.

 

[esclavo]

I thought that once you went into private practice, OMFS was as intense or relaxed as one basically would like. For example, you could live the derm-type lifestyle working 4 days a week with very little call or you could have a practice that is based on longer and more tedious surgeries and work longer hours.

Just the complications and patient issues from your own clinic procedures is more than anyone else in any other field in dentistry. I get woke up alot taking care of issues just from our clinical practice. Nausea, vomiting, can't eat, pain, bleeding, bone sticking out, dry socket, subperiosteal abscess, etcetera. I was on call last Friday night and I got called 8 times between 9 pm and 2 am for just clinic stuff. I didn't have to come in for anything but I had to talk to patients, reassure, triage, and instruct them through their problems and concerns. OMFS is surgery, derm isn't. OMFS is pretty invasive with hard and soft tissue manipulation. It isn't ortho....

 

[scalpel2008]

there in lies the advantage of having residents hold the pager from your private pratice. Those sneaky OMS attendings.

you give your pager # to the regular clinic patients ? or are these the attendings' private patients?

 

[groundhog]

I've been on 24/7 12 hour rotating shifts with bucu mandatory OT for most of my working life. I've survived because all else takes a back stage to my work and sleep in that order. If you have a spouse/kids they need to understand your situation. When you're away from the job, you'll likley be a social introvert and not much fun to be around. Your family will pay a price....that is just the way it is. If you have a family, I don't know if the money is worth it in the long run. If I had to choose again, I might have gone a different route.

P.S. It may have been a joke, but don't get hooked on the "uppers" You'll burn out fast and come down hard. Sleep whenever you can is the key.

 

[54807]

I thought that once you went into private practice, OMFS was as intense or relaxed as one basically would like. For example, you could live the derm-type lifestyle working 4 days a week with very little call or you could have a practice that is based on longer and more tedious surgeries and work longer hours.

I'm just a predent but I get to work in a group OMFS practice. Two of the docs live quite relaxed lifestyles and 2 make use of their education (and are far more stressed). Those two take hospital call quite often and do facial and mandible reconstruction and cleft palet closure (and the occasional mole removal for the office staff...lol) and I think that is really worth all the training. But to just pull 3rds all day long and the occasional implant..not really worth it in my mind. I would get sooo bored.

I have heard on numerous occasions they regret doing this specialty. But they are also the ones who have significantly limited their scope of practice and should have stayed with GP or perhaps ortho or endo if money was their main focus.

Just what I hear! I am really glad I get these honest opinions from the docs though. What do other people think?

 

[LSU-Cowboy]

Ok...dude. Every specialty becomes "monotonous". Imagine playing with files all day long....and doing root canals on molars. Or imagine seeing 60 patients a day and bending wires. Boring. Imagine playing with fixodent all day and cutting crowns. It's all relative dude. Most people don't do OMFS because of the rigorous and lengthy residency.

Never heard any OMFS regret the specialty. Never heard they wished they did GP. I have heard some dual degrees wish they didn't get the MD. Extra education never hurt anyone....and it's great to throw it in an ENT or plastic surgeon's face when they say "you're not a real doctor". Gives you the ammunition to say, "Baalllllow me". Financially, OMFS can be the most lucrative. No questions asked. Do your homework and go visit some other OMFS's before making generalized statements about OMFS.

Cowboy signing off.....

 

[54807]

Ok...dude. Every specialty becomes "monotonous". Imagine playing with files all day long....and doing root canals on molars. Or imagine seeing 60 patients a day and bending wires. Boring. Imagine playing with fixodent all day and cutting crowns. It's all relative dude. Most people don't do OMFS because of the rigorous and lengthy residency.

Never heard any OMFS regret the specialty. Never heard they wished they did GP. I have heard some dual degrees wish they didn't get the MD. Extra education never hurt anyone....and it's great to throw it in an ENT or plastic surgeon's face when they say "you're not a real doctor". Gives you the ammunition to say, "Baalllllow me". Financially, OMFS can be the most lucrative. No questions asked. Do your homework and go visit some other OMFS's before making generalized statements about OMFS.

Cowboy signing off.....

Sounds like for you, YOU have made a personal choice that you won't regret. Trust me, when it comes down to it, I bet they wouldn't trade their big dollar practice for a GP. I just brought it up that it might not be as glamerous as some people like to think. Alot of my predent friends want to be OMFS and they haven't been exposed to it. I don't even consider my own 4 months of working as an OMFS assisant to be appropriate "exposure" for me to make a decision either way. I can't wait til dental school when I actually get to do some of the cases. I HOPE that I find something I enjoy enough that I am able to do it for the rest of my life.

As far as I know...I don't feel a calling to doing root canals and bending wires. It's the variety of a GP that appeals to me to be honest. I KNOW it'll get monotonaus someday...if it was thrilling, I think we'd see dental offices open more than 35 hrs a week.

Are your plans after OMFS training to just pull teeth or do you plan on taking call in your city or doing more complex cases? If I went through an OMFS recidency program, would you find me doing call 7 nights a week? No way. I want to have a life. But I have also seen the real implact a cleft palate surgery can do for a child or the reconstructive work done on a cancer pantient and that stuff is cool to me.

I just feel like i'd be dissapointed with all the sacrifices I made during dental school, med school, and then residency only to pull teeth.

I'm honestly interested in getting your opinion on this all. Like i said, I'm a PREDENT and my exposure is obviously extremely limited compared to a dschool student or a dental resident.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

Are your plans after OMFS training to just pull teeth or do you plan on taking call in your city or doing more complex cases?

I'm definitely going to do private practice, but I'd like to work with a group that practices a wide scope. I love taking out thirds--love instant gratification, especially when it pays. I'd like to do some cosmetics, most benign path, some small malignant disease, some trauma, and the normal dentoalveolar/implant load. I don't know that I'd get tired of doing thirds, implants, and DA though, even if it was all I did.

 

[Dadoh]

I've been on 24/7 12 hour rotating shifts with bucu mandatory OT for most of my working life. I've survived because all else takes a back stage to my work and sleep in that order. QUOTE]

what is bucu? Are you an oral surgeon working 12 hour rotating shifts? I have never heard of that.

 

[groundhog]

I've been on 24/7 12 hour rotating shifts with bucu mandatory OT for most of my working life. I've survived because all else takes a back stage to my work and sleep in that order. QUOTE]

what is bucu? Are you an oral surgeon working 12 hour rotating shifts? I have never heard of that.

"bucu" short for French "beaucoup" meaning a whole bunch. Sorry for the slang version that I picked up in Vietnam. Sleep deprivation impacts everyone who works excesssive hours no matter what the task. Studies show rotating shift workers are impacted the most. I was offering my advise on how best to deal with the issue.

 

[jmick101]

The oral surgeon that I shadowed said "I would rather dig ditches than be a general dentist." Kinda left an impression and I have figured on doing OMFS since. We'll see though.

 

[Empty pockets]

The oral surgeon that I shadowed said "I would rather dig ditches than be a general dentist." Kinda left an impression and I have figured on doing OMFS since. We'll see though.

If he ever did dig ditches for a living I am sure he would take that statement back. Sounds like an ass to me.

 

[esclavo]

The oral surgeon that I shadowed said "I would rather dig ditches than be a general dentist." Kinda left an impression and I have figured on doing OMFS since. We'll see though.

I've done both and general dentistry compared to digging ditches doesn't belong in the same universe. General dentistry is phenomenal compared to digging ditches. Sounds like a biased/short sighted opinion....

 

[setdoc7]

I've also done both (GPR 83-84, OMFS 84-87) and we all know (real dentists) that someone who belittles the GP's (referal base) gets few referrals. No one can bash ones colleagues and not be well known as a miscreant.

 

[aphistis]

I've also done both (GPR 83-84, OMFS 84-87) and we all know (real dentists) that someone who belittles the GP's (referal base) gets few referrals. No one can bash ones colleagues and not be well known as a miscreant.

25 points for using "miscreant" in everyday speech.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I just feel like i'd be dissapointed with all the sacrifices I made during dental school, med school, and then residency only to pull teeth.

I'm honestly interested in getting your opinion on this all. Like i said, I'm a PREDENT and my exposure is obviously extremely limited compared to a dschool student or a dental resident.

It's fairly obvious that you are only a predent since you equate oral surgery to simply pulling teeth. There is MUCH more to the profession than dentoalveolar surgery. Sure some guys will limit their practice to that, but most don't enter that realm simply to shuck teeth. That would be a bit disappointing.

 

[toofache32]

It's fairly obvious that you are only a predent since you equate oral surgery to simply pulling teeth...

True. We also give injections faster than ANYONE!!! Yeeeehaaaaaa!!

 

[capisce?]

"bucu" short for French "beaucoup" meaning a whole bunch. Sorry for the slang version that I picked up in Vietnam.

Please, enlighten the dentists in the room and tell us how your stint in vietnam allows you to empathize with the rigors and stresses of being a dental student/resident.

 

[groundhog]

Please, enlighten the dentists in the room and tell us how your stint in vietnam allows you to empathize with the rigors and stresses of being a dental student/resident.

Why ask me? I've never claimed nor implied that it did. However, I am concerned by the fact that you seem obsessed with obtaining an answer to a delusional question that was hatched soley within your own mind. It is akin to a question my father (who has Alzheimer's ) once asked while in his confused state.... "how long have we been dead?" Perhaps you inhaled too much methyl-ethyl-ketone while brewing up concoctions in your undergrad O-Chem labs. You might want to consult a physician.

 

[aphistis]

If you're going to trade insults, do it through PM so the rest of us don't have to wade through it.

 

[toofache32]

I like wading.

 

[capisce?]

If you're going to trade insults, do it through PM so the rest of us don't have to wade through it.

It's to humor my fellow residents. I guess it depends on what tickles your fancy. I'll limit my digs to groundhog to one per thread.

I, for instance, find no humor in the line below. But I don't whine about having to get my knee-highs on to wade through it. To each his own.

25 points for using "miscreant" in everyday speech.

 

[vorosvirag]

I usually find this back-and-forth stuff fairly entertaining. Unless, it gets overly lengthy or vicious. Or if I was the one who said something stupid, resulting in jabs from others. In that case, I find that type of behavior highly unprofessional and juvenile .

 

[groundhog]

If you're going to trade insults, do it through PM so the rest of us don't have to wade through it.

You are so right. The SDN fans should not be subjected to these lame fights between me and capisce. But, its really not my fault. Neither do I believe capisce is entirely culpable (I think he is a bit puch drunk). The blame has to lie with capisce's promoter. I try to get on with being a good SDN citizen when lo and behold capisce always shows back up in the ring tossing his patented weak jabs at me. So, when I send him realing into the ropes with strong counters you always have to step in as referee and give capisce a standing eight count. Maybe the SDN commission should penalize capisce's promoter for continuoulsy putting him back into the fight ring.

 

[toofache32]

Catfight!! Catfight!!

 

[dental mickey]

I personally feel that a man should go with his interest.If you think that you cannot function properly bcas you are deprived of sleep then you love sleep more than your profession.So better practising sleep than your profession.Whichever speciality you do all comes to an end point of dedication and committment.If you do not have these qualities you can't even succeed in mastering sleep.