Add more schools, be patient or prepare for the worst?

[aftomdhopeful]

Hi, I still have not received any interview invites. I do not mean to be neurotic, but having received rejections already, I imagine my application has been reviewed at all the schools and is now sitting in limbo, perhaps to just send me a rejection at the end of the season.

To save you from having to look back at my previous posts:

Idaho resident, qualify in-state at UWash and OHSU
SES Disadvantaged 01, ORM Female
Combat Vet of Afghanistan (AF Intelligence Officer)
Re-applicant, MCAT 24-> 27
uGPA from Claremont Colleges-Biology and Classical Studies sGPA 2.9, cGPA 3.15
Study abroad in Greece
Proficient in Spanish, basic Greek and Latin
gGPA in molecular biology from state school 3.9, Thesis track with cardiomyocyte research
Current work in healthcare administration and clinical aspects
Volunteer work in hospital, after school program for disabled children, science teacher for elementary students, public health campaign and several others (Nearly 2K hours total)
ROTC and NCAA D3 athlete in college

In my application, I explained my poor undergrad grades were due to having to work all through college and support my family. My MCAT is low because I had a lot of AF mission requirements both times I took it that prevented my studying. I know I can perform a lot better, but I was afraid to take it a 3rd time in case too many attempts hurt my app. My personal statement reflected my decision to go into medicine due to a rural, poor upbringing and humanitarian work in Afghanistan.

I applied DO and MD, because I really just want to be a physician.

I applied (MD) all secondaries complete by 2 August
Rosalind Franklin
Creighton
MCW
Tulane-Rejected
UCF
USF
ETSU
Michigan State
UA-Tuscon
UWisc
UWash
OHSU
UColorado
UAlabama
UND-Rejected
Utah-Rejected
George Washington
Albany-Rejected
Stanford (I know these are a stretch, but since they look at the total applicant, I thought I might have a chance with my ECs)
Columbia
Harvard
Cornell
Georgetown-Rejected
Keck-Rejected
UCLA
UCSF

DO-AACOMAS took a long time to send my MCAT scores, so secondaries complete by 2 Sept
LECOM-Erie and Bradentown
Midwestern-Chicago and Arizona
Western-Pomona and Lebanon
PNWU
Touro-CA and NY
MSU
PCOM
ATSU
Rocky Vista

Any encouragement, or should I just accept it won't happen?

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[NotASerialKiller]

Being rejected by s0me schools does not at all imply that everyone has reviewed your application.

 

[md-2020]

There's nothing you can do but see how the cycle pans out.

With that being said if you do need a reapp your list could definitely use some adjusting.

 

[Faha]

Your chances for MD are low. If you end up reapplying next year concentrate on DO schools and apply broadly to at least 20 schools and include schools such as:
ACOM
BCOM
LMU-DCOM
MU-COM
UP-KYCOM
VCOM (all 3 schools)
WVSOM
CUSOM
WCU-COM
LUCOM
Any new DO schools that open in 2017

 

[GrapesofRath]

Add more DO schools it's not too late. Despite the military veteran status, the sub 3.0 sGPA and two MCAT showings that are at least 4-5 points below the median MD matriculant stats will make it somewhat difficult for an MD acceptance. But you can be competitive for DO schools just apply more broadly and consider the ones Faha listed.

 

[Doug Underhill]

3.15/27 is a rough stat line to overcome.

 

[aftomdhopeful]

There's nothing you can do but see how the cycle pans out.

With that being said if you do need a reapp your list could definitely use some adjusting.

What is wrong with my list (Not trying to be snarky or defensive) ? I know there are a few real stretches, but I applied to 40 schools, so it makes only 20%. Utah, Washington and Oregon all give me residency based on being WWAMI and having Oregon heritage, plus many other state schools consider veterans to be the same priority as IS. (ex-ETSU and MSU). 13 are DO, and I applied to lower tier private MD as well.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Realistically the only MD schools I could see you having any chance of being competitive at would potentially be Rosalind, Creighton, MCW and Albany. MAYBE U Wash and Oregon(if in fact you actually are listed as IS and not just speculating because you have ties there) if we are being generous also. And even those are pushing it. Veteran is a big boost to an app but a 2.9 sGPA and 27 MCAT(with a 24 on your record) are very hard things to overcome. Even URMs which perhaps have the biggest boost of all would have difficulty getting into MD schools with those stats(and they have the HBMC's which are catered to them and have lower median stats to help them out).

None of this is meant to dump on your life, you have a lot of positives in your application. It's just meant to show your list didn't exactly reflect the reality of where your application stands; I won't even getting into applying to Harvard or Stanford with your stats for the sake of this discussion. Your list didn't reflect accounting for IS/OOS biases. UCF, USF, ETSU, Michigan State, Arizona, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Colorado, Alabama, North Dakota all show legitimate IS biases. Hence those aren't realistic choices. You are however a competitive DO candidate. Add a couple more schools and you have a legitimate shot of II's.

 

[md-2020]

What is wrong with my list (Not trying to be snarky or defensive) ? I know there are a few real stretches, but I applied to 40 schools, so it makes only 20%. Utah, Washington and Oregon all give me residency based on being WWAMI and having Oregon heritage, plus many other state schools consider veterans to be the same priority as IS. (ex-ETSU and MSU). 13 are DO, and I applied to lower tier private MD as well.

Yes there are some stretches, but those aren't the (real) problem.

WWAMI is great and all but if you look at the matriculation stats, only a few candidates each year get those spots. So they're not going to be very realistic shots, and even further from the advantage you'd get w/ a true "in-state" school.

So on your list you have the following extreme reaches: Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, UCLA, Columbia, Cornell, Ohio State, and Keck
the following OOS unfriendly institutions: UCF, USF, UA, Alabama, Colorado, ND, Wisconsin, Washington, ETSU, and MSU.
You omitted such schools as: NYMC, Loyola, Rush, WVU, Vermont, Quinnipiac, EVMS, VCU, Drexel, Temple, and Jefferson

I think you will have luck w/ DO, btw.
As people above have said your stat line for MD is a doozy, even for a vet. If your heart is set on MD grade repair/some sort of stat raising will probably need to happen.

 

[Goro]

You need a thick skin in this game and expect that you'll get some rejections. You should always have a Plan B in case you get shut out.

Your best bet will be U WA and the DO schools.

But no one is doing you any favors by accepting you if you're likely to fail out of med school. And your GPAs do not inspire confidence.

I suggest a post-bac or SMP to demonstrate that you can handle med school

Hi, I still have not received any interview invites. I do not mean to be neurotic, but having received rejections already, I imagine my application has been reviewed at all the schools and is now sitting in limbo, perhaps to just send me a rejection at the end of the season.

To save you from having to look back at my previous posts:

Idaho resident, qualify in-state at UWash and OHSU
SES Disadvantaged 01, ORM Female
Combat Vet of Afghanistan (AF Intelligence Officer)
Re-applicant, MCAT 24-> 27
uGPA from Claremont Colleges-Biology and Classical Studies sGPA 2.9, cGPA 3.15
Study abroad in Greece
Proficient in Spanish, basic Greek and Latin
gGPA in molecular biology from state school 3.9, Thesis track with cardiomyocyte research
Current work in healthcare administration and clinical aspects
Volunteer work in hospital, after school program for disabled children, science teacher for elementary students, public health campaign and several others (Nearly 2K hours total)
ROTC and NCAA D3 athlete in college

In my application, I explained my poor undergrad grades were due to having to work all through college and support my family. My MCAT is low because I had a lot of AF mission requirements both times I took it that prevented my studying. I know I can perform a lot better, but I was afraid to take it a 3rd time in case too many attempts hurt my app. My personal statement reflected my decision to go into medicine due to a rural, poor upbringing and humanitarian work in Afghanistan.

I applied DO and MD, because I really just want to be a physician.

I applied (MD) all secondaries complete by 2 August
Rosalind Franklin
Creighton
MCW
Tulane-Rejected
UCF
USF
ETSU
Michigan State
UA-Tuscon
UWisc
UWash
OHSU
UColorado
UAlabama
UND-Rejected
Utah-Rejected
George Washington
Albany-Rejected
Stanford (I know these are a stretch, but since they look at the total applicant, I thought I might have a chance with my ECs)
Columbia
Harvard
Cornell
Georgetown-Rejected
Keck-Rejected
UCLA
UCSF

DO-AACOMAS took a long time to send my MCAT scores, so secondaries complete by 2 Sept
LECOM-Erie and Bradentown
Midwestern-Chicago and Arizona
Western-Pomona and Lebanon
PNWU
Touro-CA and NY
MSU
PCOM
ATSU
Rocky Vista

Any encouragement, or should I just accept it won't happen?

 

[aftomdhopeful]

For residency purposes, I was not speculating on Oregon, Wash and Utah. I received the verification from them for IS consideration. Also ETSU, Alabama and MSU count veterans as IS according to people I spoke to in their admissions offices. Colorado, ND and perhaps UA were admittedly residency mistakes. I was previously a Wyoming resident which meant I had IS preference there, and thought it extended to all the WWAMI states. I'd be open to adding more private MD schools if it's not too late and could be beneficial. However, I'm realistic. I would never turn down a DO acceptance, and I'd just be happy to get to be a physician. I might be a little disappointed because I know it would make it harder to pursue my interests in research or international medicine, but not being a physician at all would be way worse than a little disappointment.

I know that my uGPA is low. It's a failure I've been trying to get over for nearly a decade. It's not because I'm unable to handle the rigor of science or goofed off, but because I had to work through college to support my parents/siblings and was in the military. Military duties win over lectures and MCAT studying no matter how much I wanted otherwise, every time. However, those classes were 7-10 years ago, and I knocked my masters degree out of the park. I got a 3.9 in molecular biology, and I took graduate level versions of the classes I took in undergrad. I know low SES, working through undergrad and being poor/rural does not count for much if anything, but shouldn't a masters be able to prove I can handle the rigors of med school?

 

[LuluLovesMe]

shouldn't a masters be able to prove I can handle the rigors of med school?

Not with that MCAT. It would make me wonder why you still were not able to score well even though you did excellent in your masters. I actually think if you retook the MCAT and score over ~514 or so you'd have a good shot at some MD schools. But Goro is the Adcom member here so maybe you do need an SMP like he suggests.

 

[GrapesofRath]

For residency purposes, I was not speculating on Oregon, Wash and Utah. I received the verification from them for IS consideration. Also ETSU, Alabama and MSU count veterans as IS according to people I spoke to in their admissions offices. Colorado, ND and perhaps UA were admittedly residency mistakes. I was previously a Wyoming resident which meant I had IS preference there, and thought it extended to all the WWAMI states. I'd be open to adding more private MD schools if it's not too late and could be beneficial. However, I'm realistic. I would never turn down a DO acceptance, and I'd just be happy to get to be a physician. I might be a little disappointed because I know it would make it harder to pursue my interests in research or international medicine, but not being a physician at all would be way worse than a little disappointment.

I know that my uGPA is low. It's a failure I've been trying to get over for nearly a decade. It's not because I'm unable to handle the rigor of science or goofed off, but because I had to work through college to support my parents/siblings and was in the military. Military duties win over lectures and MCAT studying no matter how much I wanted otherwise, every time. However, those classes were 7-10 years ago, and I knocked my masters degree out of the park. I got a 3.9 in molecular biology, and I took graduate level versions of the classes I took in undergrad. I know low SES, working through undergrad and being poor/rural does not count for much if anything, but shouldn't a masters be able to prove I can handle the rigors of med school?

There are many threads about this but to answer the bolded question not particularly. Masters GPA's are notorious for being rather inflated. From what Goro and others in the know have said in the past, you'll find DO's more willing to put some stock into it than MD's(could be wrong there that's just what I've read) What proves you can handle medical school though are undergrad level classes in science subjects either in pre-reqs or classes that cover areas you will see in medicine(ie microbiology, neuroscience etc) or medical classes themselves(SMPs).

My understanding about Idaho for Utah is that they reserve 8 spots for Idaho residents. That doesn't mean counting them as IS even though they might for official purposes(I'm not sure about that I'll admit I could be wrong and will stand corrected if I am). I can't comment on ETSU, Alabama and Michigan State about what you said because I didn't hear it but I will say their particular wording is very key there. If in fact all those schools treat you as an IS resident, you might have an MD shot. But that's speculation.

Ultimately it would be one thing if ONE of your GPA or MCAT were low. Given your military status, you could probably overcome a 3.0/33 or a 3.85/26 for MD purposes. But when BOTH are well below MD standards, that's where the questions rise. Like I said, you have a solid shot at DO II's, but you haven't fully convinced any ADCOM you can handle the rigors of medical school. A DO might be willing to take a chance on you because they highly seek and respect military vets and statistically the vast majority of medical students(even those in the 3.0/27 type territory) pass and go on to be physicians. But you are a risk to some extent with your stats; and you are a type of risk that MDs can afford to pass on. If you want to prove yourself and prove you have what it takes to handle medical school for MD's a strong showing in a post-bacc would do that. As would a 510+ MCAT(although given you have two 27 and under attempts that's rather unlikely to occur). Perspective is key here as always; you can get DO II's. You have a shot potentially to live out the dream of being a physician. Many people with 3.0/26's don't get the chance to do that. Remember that.

 

[aftomdhopeful]

Not with that MCAT. It would make me wonder why you still were not able to score well even though you did excellent in your masters. I actually think if you retook the MCAT and score over ~514 or so you'd have a good shot at some MD schools. But Goro is the Adcom member here so maybe you do need an SMP like he suggests.

Military duties win over lectures and MCAT studying no matter how much I wanted otherwise, every time.

When I was in MCAT prep, I was in a very high military operations tempo. In fact, I wasn't sure the day of the first exam whether I would even be allowed to leave to take it. I had scheduled and requested the time off weeks in advance, and the morning of the exam I was called in to duty. After fighting and appealing to my commander, I was finally released to go to the exam, but I had to drive three hours to the testing center and was quite rattled from the experience. The second time I witnessed a family member get hit by a car and seriously injured the week before the exam, and the process of helping her recover from trauma surgery was more draining that I believed at the time.

Neither of these are excuses and I do not want to appear defensive. I accept that these are the scores I got; they are more of just explanations about why I performed poorly. Both were very unfortunate, but one off events. As mentioned in the first post, I'm not averse to taking the MCAT again, especially as I believe I could perform much better without these kind of stressors. I was hesitant because I thought 3 MCAT scores would look bad.

 

[GrapesofRath]

When I was in MCAT prep, I was in a very high military operations tempo. In fact, I wasn't sure the day of the first exam whether I would even be allowed to leave to take it. I had scheduled and requested the time off weeks in advance, and the morning of the exam I was called in to duty. After fighting and appealing to my commander, I was finally released to go to the exam, but I had to drive three hours to the testing center and was quite rattled from the experience. The second time I witnessed a family member get hit by a car and seriously injured the week before the exam, and the process of helping her recover from trauma surgery was more draining that I believed at the time.

Neither of these are excuses and I do not want to appear defensive. I accept that these are the scores I got; they are more of just explanations about why I performed poorly. Both were very unfortunate, but one off events. As mentioned in the first post, I'm not averse to taking the MCAT again, especially as I believe I could perform much better without these kind of stressors. I was hesitant because I thought 3 MCAT scores would look bad.

If your that confident and sure in your abilities do a post-bac and take the MCAT for a 3rd time. Don't have stats that are well below MD matriculants and say "I had other commitments, I know I could have done better otherwise". Everybody can put in a spreadsheet what they think their MCAT or GPA would be otherwise; doing is a whole different discussion.

To answer your question, if you take the MCAT for a 3rd time and do significantly better 510+ yes it will really help your application. If you do that and do some post-bacc work and ace it, then you can really be a serious MD candidate.

 

[ksturdy]

So, I'm in a similar situation with regards to my scores and felt it better to respond to this feed rather than start a new one. I have a 3.12 cGPA from undergrad (I believe my sGPA was a 3.02, but I honestly can't remember). I received a 25 on the MCAT the first time (10-6-9) and then a 27 (9-10-8).

I am currently enrolled in a SMP through a medical school and I think this program will help me get a feel for whether I can handle med school or not. I am hesitant to retake the MCAT because 1. I am happy with the improvement in my verbal score and 2. I can't see myself having time to study for the test again, especially given the new format, while trying to maintain high grades in my SMP. How do you guys feel about me retaking the MCAT? Should I still retake even with the SMP?

 

[GrapesofRath]

So, I'm in a similar situation with regards to my scores and felt it better to respond to this feed rather than start a new one. I have a 3.12 cGPA from undergrad (I believe my sGPA was a 3.02, but I honestly can't remember). I received a 25 on the MCAT the first time (10-6-9) and then a 27 (9-10-8).

I am currently enrolled in a SMP through a medical school and I think this program will help me get a feel for whether I can handle med school or not. I am hesitant to retake the MCAT because 1. I am happy with the improvement in my verbal score and 2. I can't see myself having time to study for the test again, especially given the new format, while trying to maintain high grades in my SMP. How do you guys feel about me retaking the MCAT? Should I still retake even with the SMP?

Unless you get direct linkage with that SMP even if you ace the program that MCAT is quite low for MD purposes. So yes, I think a re-take is in order. But first you have to ace this SMP which is alot easier said than done before that's a discussion.