Admissions Stats: The Big Picture--Clinical, Counseling, & School

[futureapppsy2]

So, in a fit of altruism (or perhaps masochism), I decided to enter all the admissions stats (GPA, GRE Q, GRE V, Applicants, Admitted, and Percent Admitted) for all APA accredited School Psychology, Clinical Psychology, and Counseling Psychology PhD and PsyD programs, excluding Argosy and Alliant. I've always expected that Argosy and Alliant can tend to inflate the admission percentage and deflate the mean GPAs and GREs. I also left out Canadian schools (because of they are withdrawing from accredition) and Puerto Rico schools because they draw a narrower and different applicant pools then most other schools.

Clinical (PhDs and PsyDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 184 (105)
Admitted: 24 (30)
Percent Admitted: 15% (16%)
GRE Q: 650 (49)
GRE V: 592 (51)
GPA: 3.62 (.18)

Clinical (PhDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 189 (100)
Admitted: 15 (16)
Percent Admitted: 10% (10%)
GRE Q: 663 (42)
GRE V: 602 (48)
GPA: 3.65 (.17)

Clinical (PsyDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 181 (120)
Admitted: 57 (42)
Percent Admitted: 33% (18%)
GRE Q: 600 (45)
GRE V: 547 (39)
GPA: 3.53 (.19)

Counseling (Accept applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 97 (55)
Admitted: 10 (3)
Percent Admitted: 14% (8%)
GRE Q: 610 (48)
GRE V: 563 (38)
GPA: 3.61(.15)

Counseling (Accepts only applicants with MAs):
Applicants: 58 (27)
Admitted: 11 (4)
Percent Admitted: 24% (14%)
GRE Q: 558 (44)
GRE V: 532 (39)
GPA: 3.52 (.24)

Counseling (Accept applicants with BAs) and Clinical (PhDs and PsyDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 180 (103)
Admitted: 23 (27)
Percent Admitted: 15% (15%)
GRE Q: 643 (51)
GRE V: 587 (50)
GPA: 3.62 (.17)

Counseling (Accept applicants with BAs) and Clinical (PhDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 165 (99)
Admitted: 14 (14)
Percent Admitted: 10% (11%)
GRE Q: 650 (48)
GRE V: 594 (49)
GPA: 3.64 (.16)

School (Accept applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 40 (24)
Admitted: 10 (6)
Percent Admitted: 30% (17%)
GRE Q: 619 (41)
GRE V: 553 (38)
GPA (data not complete): 3.56 (.14)


Data comes from APA's Graduate Study in Psychology (2009), Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology (2008-2009), and program websites (School Psych was *much* harder to get!). If you want to know the stats for any particular program, any particular combination of programs (including with Argosy/Alliant added in), Combined programs, or with certain programs edited out feel free to post or PM me.

I hope you find this helpful!

Argosy/Alliant Means
Applicants: 162 (84)
Admitted: 81 (45)
Percent Admitted: 49% (10%)
GRE Q: N/A
GRE V: N/A
GPA: 3.43 (.14)

Data with Argosy/Alliant included

Clinical (PhDs and PsyDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 169 (102)
Admitted: 29 (35)
Percent Admitted: 17% (18%)
GRE Q: 650 (49)
GRE V: 592 (51)
GPA: 3.61 (.18)

Clinical (PhDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 184 (100)
Admitted: 16% (17%)
Percent Admitted: 10% (11%)
GRE Q: 662 (42)
GRE V: 603 (48)
GPA: 3.65 (.17)


Clinical (PsyDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 189 (112)
Admitted: 65 (44)
Percent Admitted: 37% (18%)
GRE Q: 600 (45)
GRE V: 547 (39)
GPA: 3.53 (.19)


Counseling (Accept applicants with BAs) and Clinical (PhDs and PsyDs, Accept Applicants with BAs)
Applicants: 169 (102)
Admitted: 25 (32)
Percent Admitted: 17% (17%)
GRE Q: 643 (51)
GRE V: 587 (50)
GPA: 3.61 (.18)

Counseling (Accept applicants with BAs) and Clinical (PhDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 164 (99)
Admitted: 14 (15)
Percent Admitted: 10% (11%)
GRE Q: 650 (48)
GRE V: 594 (49)
GPA: 3.64 (.16)

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[krisrox]

aybe this is a dumb question 'cause I'm kind of a newbie... but NO WAY are there only 180-something applicants to ALL of the programs! I must be reading it wrong...

 

[AryaStark]

I think futureappy is saying that these are the mean scores for these types of programs not the actual total number.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Yes, these are means.

 

[JockNerd]

Means without standard deviations make me sad.

(because they're mostly uninterpretable)

 

[AryaStark]

lol jeesh. I can't even imagine how much time it took future appy to do all of that. And now you're saying it is pretty much worthless haha. Ouch

Means without standard deviations make me sad.

(because they're mostly uninterpretable)

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

lol jeesh. I can't even imagine how much time it took future appy to do all of that. And now you're saying it is pretty much worthless haha. Ouch

He has a point....that the effort is definitely commendable.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Standard Deviations added--you happy now?

Sheesh, I try to do something helpful and look!

 

[JockNerd]

But, now they're there, and it's both commendable and 10x more helpful!

 

[sugarhi385]

Wow, this is great to take a look at! Thanks for all of your time and effort

 

[krisrox]

Ah, there we go. Much more understandable. Holy **** this must have taken you forever!!!

 

[Ollie123]

Interesting, though not too far off what I'd expect. Impressive effort getting all this together!

If you would not mind, I'm curious of the effect Argosy and Alliant have on the means (basically, how much of an outlier they truly are). Feel free to PM if you prefer, to avoid the inevitable sidetracking when someone decides posting the admissions info is a personal attack. I'd also be curious to see the breakdown of university vs. professional school independent of degree type, though I'm not sure that's even realistic to do given there's more than a few shades of grey involved. University programs that seem to operate under professional school models, combinations (e.g. PGSP-Stanford), etc.

 

[deleted176373]

Very nice, now write it up and publish... LOL.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Very nice, now write it up and publish... LOL.

There hasn't been an article on this in a few years (IIRC)....

 

[knowing]

Thank you ..I found it helpful and I am aware it took lots of time and effort..so double thank you..

 

[Wildcat06]

Thanks futureapp! I think it's interesting (though not really surprising) how small the SDs are for GREs and GPAs.

 

[CitoPsych]

Thank you for this! It was very helpful .

 

[JockNerd]

Where were these data collected from? The Insider's Guide? Or the program web sites themselves?

 

[twilson]

.

Where were these data collected from? The Insider's Guide? Or the program web sites themselves?

Data comes from APA's Graduate Study in Psychology (2009), Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology (2008-2009), and program websites (School Psych was *much* harder to get!). If you want to know the stats for any particular program, any particular combination of programs (including with Argosy/Alliant added in), Combined programs, or with certain programs edited out feel free to post or PM me.

 

[JockNerd]

Durrrr, missed that somehow; thanks!

 

[Psychology 76]

thanks for posting this, interesting and helpful stuff!

 

[futureapppsy2]

Oooh, my thread got stickied! Ollie, I'll get those stats to you later this week, after I finish drafting this research proposal... Sorry for the delay.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Oooh, my thread got stickied!

Your work is definitely appreciated!

 

[Ollie123]

Take your time - you deserve a break after putting all that together!

 

[ouroboro]

wow... you are rediculous! Thanks so much! More motivation to get my GRE scores a little higher!

 

[cara susanna]

When you calculate acceptance rates, do you use total number admitted including those rejecting offers, or just the number actually accepting offers?

Thanks!

 

[psyed4clinPhD]

I am interested also in knowing if that figure includes those applicants who declined offers. Thank you so much for putting this information together!!!

 

[onelove710]

So, in a fit of altruism (or perhaps masochism), I decided to enter all the admissions stats (GPA, GRE Q, GRE V, Applicants, Admitted, and Percent Admitted) for all APA accredited School Psychology, Clinical Psychology, and Counseling Psychology PhD and PsyD programs, excluding Argosy and Alliant. I've always expected that Argosy and Alliant can tend to inflate the admission percentage and deflate the mean GPAs and GREs. I also left out Canadian schools (because of they are withdrawing from accredition) and Puerto Rico schools because they draw a narrower and different applicant pools then most other schools.

Clinical (PhDs and PsyDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 184 (105)
Admitted: 24 (30)
Percent Admitted: 15% (16%)
GRE Q: 650 (49)
GRE V: 592 (51)
GPA: 3.62 (.18)

Clinical (PhDs, Accept Applicants with BAs):
Applicants: 189 (100)
Admitted: 15 (16)
Percent Admitted: 10% (10%)
GRE Q: 663 (42)
GRE V: 602 (48)
GPA: 3.65 (.17)

do you know where we can find a ranking of the schools for masters in clinical psychology and psyD programs?

 

[PrisonPsych]

do you know where we can find a ranking of the schools for masters in clinical psychology and psyD programs?

There is no such thing as a masters Psy.D. The Psy.D. is a doctoral degree.

 

[futureapppsy2]

When you calculate acceptance rates, do you use total number admitted including those rejecting offers, or just the number actually accepting offers?

Thanks!

Whatever the school provided--if both, the number offered admission.

 

[krisrox]

Pardon my French, but how the HELL did you get this info for school programs?!?!?! I don't even know the average stats for all the programs I'm submitting apps for!

 

[jenn1015]

Pardon my French, but how the HELL did you get this info for school programs?!?!?! I don't even know the average stats for all the programs I'm submitting apps for!

They have it available on the school's program websites- under disclosure data.

 

[krisrox]

They have it available on the school's program websites- under disclosure data.

The one's I'm looking at must hide it well. All the clinical programs I've looked at have it readily available, but the school programs seem a little less eager to share.

 

[krisrox]

Oh, by the way, here's my holy grail of clinical program disclosure.

http://chp.phhp.ufl.edu/cudcp/address/univlinks.php

 

[jenn1015]

Oh, by the way, here's my holy grail of clinical program disclosure.

http://chp.phhp.ufl.edu/cudcp/address/univlinks.php

Omg that's amazing!!

And that's unfortunate that the school programs don't have it available- I just assumed that they would!!

 

[krisrox]

Omg that's amazing!!

And that's unfortunate that the school programs don't have it available- I just assumed that they would!!

Some of them do, but some have incomplete data. Annoying for me, the prospective applicant.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Pardon my French, but how the HELL did you get this info for school programs?!?!?! I don't even know the average stats for all the programs I'm submitting apps for!

The APA's book was extremely helpful for this. A few programs had it on their websites, but I wouldn't say a majority did. Avg. GPAs were really hard to find for school programs, though.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I finally updated the data to include data with Argosy and Alliant included. Also, fixed and calculating/reporting error in clinical/counseling PhD calculations!

 

[DocKelly]

Hi-

I am a student in the Combined School and Clinical Psychology Doctoral program at Kean University. This new program is a hybrid of sorts of Psy.D. and Ph.D. programs that encourages active research to inform and advance clinical practice. Cohort size are kept small, the facilities are brand new, and a plethora of school and clinical practicum opportunities exist in the NY/NJ Area.

Most importantly, the majority of the students in the program are fully funded (a rarity in Psy.D. programs). In addition, the program just received 2 additional slots for admission for Fall 2010 that will be fully funded and includes stipend as well.

Please check out our website. http://www.kean.edu/~psyd/program.html

Thanks! Good luck in your application processes!

 

[PrisonPsych]

Hi-

I am a student in the Combined School and Clinical Psychology Doctoral program at Kean University. This new program is a hybrid of sorts of Psy.D. and Ph.D. programs that encourages active research to inform and advance clinical practice. Cohort size are kept small, the facilities are brand new, and a plethora of school and clinical practicum opportunities exist in the NY/NJ Area.

Most importantly, the majority of the students in the program are fully funded (a rarity in Psy.D. programs). In addition, the program just received 2 additional slots for admission for Fall 2010 that will be fully funded and includes stipend as well.

Please check out our website. http://www.kean.edu/~psyd/program.html

Thanks! Good luck in your application processes!

Please note for those considering this: This program is not currently APA accredited.

 

[UnLurked]

I have been wondering how many unique applicants compete for grad school slots. Looking at the disclosure data you compete against close to 200 people at each school. Most of us are applying to multiple programs (11 for me) so the actual number of competing individuals is much smaller than the 200 for seven slots you see on the website. My question is how many unique individuals are competing for how many clinical PhD slots?

 

[emilier05]

I have been wondering how many unique applicants compete for grad school slots. Looking at the disclosure data you compete against close to 200 people at each school. Most of us are applying to multiple programs (11 for me) so the actual number of competing individuals is much smaller than the 200 for seven slots you see on the website. My question is how many unique individuals are competing for how many clinical PhD slots?

I totally agree. I was told by my undergrad advisor that whenever he's on the admissions committee, they usually assume that (roughly) half of the individuals who they offer admission to will accept, considering how many programs it is customary for people to apply to (I applied to 12 myself) and how every school is looking for the same thing. For example, my undergrad institution offered admission to around 10 individuals for the incoming class for the clinical psych phd program last year, only three actually came. I guess this is good news for those of us that are waitlisted, but it makes me curious about the entire admissions process (and how it should possibly be easier to get accepted to a PhD program). I know i gave you no usable information, but I would like to know the same thing!

 

[Janey]

Hi Everyone:

As someone who recently graduated from a top clinical PsyD program that has an excellent reputation and is part of a university based program, I can tell you a bit about the PsyD from an insider's perspective. This is my experience so it may not generalize to everyone. First of all, let me put all the facts on the table:

Cost of clinical psyD: $100,000- 250,000 plus (depending on the program and whether it is private or public)
Length of program: 5 years-7 years plus. Typically, 4 to 5 years of school, and 1 year internship. The average to complete my program is 6 years, and it took me 6 years.
Internship salary: $0 -$25,000 (yes, some are unpaid)
First job after graduate school: $25,000-30,000 for a clinical post-doc

Right now, I am getting paid $25,000 as a recent graduate in a clinical post-doc position. I work about 50-60 hours per week so I end up making less than minimum wage. My salary comes out to about $1600 per month, and my loans come out to about $900 per month so I am unable to make ends meet, and thus have taken on an additional job as a waitress on the weekends just to make additional income. Plus, I don't eat out and live with roommates. Do you think getting this degree is worth it? That depends on how much you are willing to sacrifice and how comfortable you are living in poverty for a while.

 

[phillydave]

Hi Everyone:

As someone who recently graduated from a top clinical PsyD program that has an excellent reputation and is part of a university based program, I can tell you a bit about the PsyD from an insider's perspective. This is my experience so it may not generalize to everyone. First of all, let me put all the facts on the table:

Cost of clinical psyD: $100,000- 250,000 plus (depending on the program and whether it is private or public)
Length of program: 5 years-7 years plus. Typically, 4 to 5 years of school, and 1 year internship. The average to complete my program is 6 years, and it took me 6 years.
Internship salary: $0 -$25,000 (yes, some are unpaid)
First job after graduate school: $25,000-30,000 for a clinical post-doc

Right now, I am getting paid $25,000 as a recent graduate in a clinical post-doc position. I work about 50-60 hours per week so I end up making less than minimum wage. My salary comes out to about $1600 per month, and my loans come out to about $900 per month so I am unable to make ends meet, and thus have taken on an additional job as a waitress on the weekends just to make additional income. Plus, I don't eat out and live with roommates. Do you think getting this degree is worth it? That depends on how much you are willing to sacrifice and how comfortable you are living in poverty for a while.

Seriously, what is your agenda? You copied and pasted you post from the other thread?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

MOD NOTE: In an effort to re-organize the top of the forum, I added this thread to the "most useful" list for applicants, which will be stickied at the top of the forum. -t4c

 

[aequitasveritas]

Argosy/Alliant Means
Applicants: 162 (84)
Admitted: 81 (45)
Percent Admitted: 49% (10%)
GRE Q: N/A
GRE V: N/A
GPA: 3.43 (.14)

Did you use one particular Alliant campus or the average of all of them? Moreover, was it a number based on the Psy.D or the PhD programs or both?

The quality and admissions varies greatly from degree and campus.

 

[djredlion]

I was wondering whether there were programs in the Pennsylavania area to which I could apply if I'm coming from another program. I have a lot of doctoral credits that I would like to transfer to an APA accredited program. Which school would be best to suit my needs?

 

[Ollie123]

There are many, many schools in Pennsylvania (see the post that contains google map of all accredited schools). That said, at the doctoral level, very few schools are likely to accept much in the way of "transfer credits". Even people with an MA often end up repeating the bulk of their coursework.

I wasn't clear from your post, but if you are hoping to go from an unaccredited schools to an accredited school your chances are even slimmer. There is a very strong chance that wherever you look, they would want you to redo all your coursework. At the very least, you would need to apply, and then try and negotiate coursework once admitted.