Advantage or Disadvantage being a NON tradtitional student...

[bunnybop]

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I was wondering how you all felt about whether or not it is an advantage or disadvantage being a non trad student (NTS.)

The reason why I ask is because I am having a time developing my Personal Statement. I mean how does one focus on only 5000 charectars of where the person has come from, where the person is going and why the person transitioned into a medical career.

For me, that is almos the hardest part, trying to explain why I am making the switch. LOL, does anyone else understand what I am dealing with?

As well, to me, I believe being an NTS does have many advantages. Such as experience, that has to count for something right? I know the obvious disadvantage is age but depending on age how much of a disadvantage can that be?

Thanks for your input...

 

[crazydiamond]

I have yet to apply, let alone get accepted, so take this with a gain of salt:

I feel being a non-trad has helped me become a better student because I am much more focused and organized now. Juggling a family (including a young child), a full-time job, volunteering, and graduate school in the evenings has made me extremely organized. I focus on the task at hand, get it completed, and move on. I'm able to multi-task well and don't let an opportunity pass me by (for example, I will study for my classes while waiting for dinner to finish cooking). This has all allowed me to make the best use of what little time I have -- in fact I devote more time to studying now than I did before I had house, family, and work obligations. I "get" life now and understand the stakes are high, as a result I'm willing to do what's necessary to attend med school. Before, as an UG I procrastinated, was lazy, didn't study much, and generally goofed off. Basically, I've matured a lot over the years and I feel I'm a much better student this go-round.

So as you can see, being a non-trad has definitely helped me. Now I need to figure out if I can convince the adcomms of that 😉

 

[Law2Doc]

I was wondering how you all felt about whether or not it is an advantage or disadvantage being a non trad student (NTS.)

The reason why I ask is because I am having a time developing my Personal Statement. I mean how does one focus on only 5000 charectars of where the person has come from, where the person is going and why the person transitioned into a medical career.

For me, that is almos the hardest part, trying to explain why I am making the switch. LOL, does anyone else understand what I am dealing with?

As well, to me, I believe being an NTS does have many advantages. Such as experience, that has to count for something right? I know the obvious disadvantage is age but depending on age how much of a disadvantage can that be?

Thanks for your input...

It can be helpful as many nontrads have more/better ECs, prior work experience, and better honed interview skills. But you still have to have the numbers too

Explaining why you are switching careers is a very personal thing and not one anyone can help you explain.

 

[bunnybop]

I have yet to apply, let alone get accepted, so take this with a gain of salt:

I feel being a non-trad has helped me become a better student because I am much more focused and organized now. Juggling a family (including a young child), a full-time job, volunteering, and graduate school in the evenings has made me extremely organized. I focus on the task at hand, get it completed, and move on. I'm able to multi-task well and don't let an opportunity pass me by (for example, I will study for my classes while waiting for dinner to finish cooking). This has all allowed me to make the best use of what little time I have -- in fact I devote more time to studying now than I did before I had house, family, and work obligations. I "get" life now and understand the stakes are high, as a result I'm willing to do what's necessary to attend med school. Before, as an UG I procrastinated, was lazy, didn't study much, and generally goofed off. Basically, I've matured a lot over the years and I feel I'm a much better student this go-round.

So as you can see, being a non-trad has definitely helped me. Now I need to figure out if I can convince the adcomms of that 😉

I understand a lot of what you are saying... For me, I dealt with a similar situation this way. My grades weren't horrific before but they weren't the motivated type grades either. With that said. I had some making up to do but I did it...

The tack I took was this. I decided that I was not going to graduate until my GPA was at the highest point I could get it. I didn't want to graduate and then obtain a post bac to fix my GPA... In fact I was a business major before so the grades I got then won't really affect my BCPM anyway... That is why my BCPM will be higher than my actual overall.

 

[MedSchoolFool]

I am a 35 y.o. NTS who has been fortunate enough to be accepted to med school. I think we can all agree that being a NTS has some distinct advantages. But despite how we feel personally, the fact is that being older is a genuine disadvantage in the med school application process. Look at a distribution curve for the ages of matriculants to the MSI year. It is clear that NTS's are fighting an uphill battle. However, I do believe that with time the perception of many adcoms toward us older candidates will change for the better. And, of course, as I and many others on SDN are proof of, lots of adcoms already embrace us NTS's.

But, I would suggest being realistic when deciding where to apply. Osteopathic colleges certainly represent the best chance at acceptance. Places like UPenn, Hopkins, and Harvard are least likely to let a NTS into their class. Just do your research before spending all that secondary money.

 

[soonerfan77]

Being a non-trad has definitely been a disadvantage, economically. Busting my @ss 30+ hours a week while trying to maintain a GPA, MCAT, EC's, etc. to a standard that looks decent has been, well, d@mn tough. With all these kids running around with soooooo much extra time and resources, there applications simply dwindle mine. However, my life experiences have given the wisdom and eloquence to convery a much more mature candidate who is aware of the idealism and reality of the medical field and life. I made this explicitly known in my PS, but not to excuse my lower stats. On the contrary, I showed how my own personal path has given unique OPPORTUNITIES that most kids will never know until they too have to worry about the bills and insurance and feeding themselves, for pete's sake. I have lived the same kinda life that the majority of my future patients have lived, and as a result, I will be able have true empathy for them because I was one of them.

THE University of Oklahoma College of Medicine Class of 2011
😎

 

[ForbiddenComma]

Pros to being a non-trad:
- That "life experience" thing that is so elusive to 22 y/o biology majors
- Getting a chance to try other career paths - so you know medicine is what you really want
- A more interesting personal statement
- Many adcoms seek to have a number of non-trads in each class in the interests of diversity
- DO schools have a reputation for being non-trad friendly
- Many specialties are non-trad friendly. Emergency medicine comes to mind
- A more mature mindset for handling the stress of med school

Cons to being a non-trad:
- Fewer years you'll get to practice, in total, before retirement
- Harder to fit in with your traditional classmates. Them no-good punk whippersnappers, by gum...
- Many MD schools look down on non-trads, such as high-end private schools like WashU
- Some specialties such as surgery are generally not that friendly to non-trads
- Family obligations (spouse, kids) reduce your available time
- Family obligations also may tie you to an area, limiting your options for med school and residency

IMO, of course 😉

 

[RxnMan]

In the end, you either are a non-trad or you aren't, and pros and cons can't change reality. We had a person trolling awhile back, saying it was unfair to let non-trads apply. Something about them having an unjust number of ECs.

Start with one sentence on yourself.

"I came from this background."

Then write a sentence about where that took you.

"I became a paramedic (just a common story here, maybe not your's)."

Then write a sentence showing how it was a good place, but not fulfilling enough. This is key because you never want to be negative in your PS, and you never want to say anything negative about allied health care workers.

"Being a paramedic was great because I helped save lives, but my effort ended at the ER - I wanted to keep shepherding my charge through the system."

Then you state how being a doc will get you what you had, plus some fulfillment that only being a doc will give you. Expand each sentence into a paragraph with supporting sentences. Then wrap it all up in your final paragraph. Now you have a pretty standard 4-paragraph PS with built-in transitions. Enjoy.

But if you cannot convey your thoughts in your PS, then don't write about your non-trad as much as writing a vanilla PS like the usual "3.6/30/shadowed-pediatrician-for-two-weeks-I-wanna-be-a-doc" applicant. You will face questions about why you switched at some point.

 

[bunnybop]

Maybe this is a different thread but can someone tell me what is a NTS and what is not really an NTS... yes, I have another career but I am not even past the age of 30... Does that really count as being an NTS?

 

[apnea]

Medical schools like qualified applicants. Non-trads have good stories. If you've got them both, good for you 👍

 

[QofQuimica]

I was wondering how you all felt about whether or not it is an advantage or disadvantage being a non trad student (NTS.)

The reason why I ask is because I am having a time developing my Personal Statement. I mean how does one focus on only 5000 charectars of where the person has come from, where the person is going and why the person transitioned into a medical career.

For me, that is almos the hardest part, trying to explain why I am making the switch. LOL, does anyone else understand what I am dealing with?

As well, to me, I believe being an NTS does have many advantages. Such as experience, that has to count for something right? I know the obvious disadvantage is age but depending on age how much of a disadvantage can that be?

Thanks for your input...

The biggest disadvantage for many nontrads is subpar stats (GPA and MCAT). Nontrads with above-average stats seem to fare very well.

For your PS, I agree with RxnMan. Keep it positive, and use it to explain why you want to go to med school. No excuses for mistakes you've made, no bashing other careers, and no diatribes. to you. 🙂

 

[budhak0n]

I have yet to apply, let alone get accepted, so take this with a gain of salt:

I feel being a non-trad has helped me become a better student because I am much more focused and organized now. Juggling a family (including a young child), a full-time job, volunteering, and graduate school in the evenings has made me extremely organized. I focus on the task at hand, get it completed, and move on. I'm able to multi-task well and don't let an opportunity pass me by (for example, I will study for my classes while waiting for dinner to finish cooking). This has all allowed me to make the best use of what little time I have -- in fact I devote more time to studying now than I did before I had house, family, and work obligations. I "get" life now and understand the stakes are high, as a result I'm willing to do what's necessary to attend med school. Before, as an UG I procrastinated, was lazy, didn't study much, and generally goofed off. Basically, I've matured a lot over the years and I feel I'm a much better student this go-round.

So as you can see, being a non-trad has definitely helped me. Now I need to figure out if I can convince the adcomms of that 😉

Shine On ... Shine On..

You speak of these "adcomms" as if they are alien gatekeepers protecting the flow of Spice from the Planet of Sand <g>.

But seriously I'm completely and utterly fresh and newb to all this... All i've done is register for a Micro Course and plan to take Organic Chem and Physics for Life Sciences and go from there... all this talk of Adcoms and Narkleplexers is making me feel a bit queer <g>

I've been reading through a bunch of these posts and I know I'm totally NEWB and couldn't possibly not know the answer to this question but sorry I'm too darn Lazy to google it..

What the heck is an adcomm? Besides of course it's an interviewer for an admissions "board" of a med school but what's the word mean?

Ah .. admissions Committee .. got it... sorry I'm a bit tired from reading post upon post of whatever is going on round these parts lol..... so sorry to have wasted your time lol

 

[Haemulon]

My best advise is that if you don't want the adcoms to make your age an issue, then you shouldn't make age an issue either. Focus on your experiences, your motivations, your career goals. Give them a reason to want to meet you. Give them a reason to believe that you will become an asset to the profession as a whole and to their school in particular. Then just see what happens.

 

[crazydiamond]

Shine On ... Shine On..

You speak of these "adcomms" as if they are alien gatekeepers protecting the flow of Spice from the Planet of Sand <g>.

But seriously I'm completely and utterly fresh and newb to all this... All i've done is register for a Micro Course and plan to take Organic Chem and Physics for Life Sciences and go from there... all this talk of Adcoms and Narkleplexers is making me feel a bit queer <g>

I've been reading through a bunch of these posts and I know I'm totally NEWB and couldn't possibly not know the answer to this question but sorry I'm too darn Lazy to google it..

What the heck is an adcomm? Besides of course it's an interviewer for an admissions "board" of a med school but what's the word mean?

Ah .. admissions Committee .. got it... sorry I'm a bit tired from reading post upon post of whatever is going on round these parts lol..... so sorry to have wasted your time lol

You must be a fellow Pink Floyd fan too 🙂

But yes, you figured it out. Don't worry though, it took me a while to figure out what "adcomm" was also.

 

[UVABranch]

Just thought I'd bump this thread. I thought it was really helpful!

 

[Empi]

The biggest disadvantage for many nontrads is subpar stats (GPA and MCAT). Nontrads with above-average stats seem to fare very well.

For your PS, I agree with RxnMan. Keep it positive, and use it to explain why you want to go to med school. No excuses for mistakes you've made, no bashing other careers, and no diatribes. to you. 🙂

So, it's not the status as non-trad, its the sucky GPA and MCATS. This is encouraging. I have a decent GPA and I feel good about the MCATS...when I get around to taking them.

Thank-you for bumping this thread. It is informative and actually encouraging to me. For me, the hardest part was getting up the courage to go back to school and sort of getting up to speed in my freshman year. The science, especially the BIO, has changed so much over time. I must say, as hard as it was to start from scratch while the traditional students had some BIO and Chem in high school, I love it, love the learning process and love the challenge when it finally gets through my thick head that I actually *can* do this thing.

I think one more advantage to being non traditional is that we are already facing the real life issues that our traditional classmates will hit as the proverbial brick wall down their career path.

I guess we'll be there to give them hugs and offer been there done that advice when asked.

 

[njbmd]

Being a non-traditional applicant in itself is not going to confer any particular status or advantage. Medical schools look for the most competitive applicants that show that they are capable of handling a medical school curriculum regardless of age.

Some (and definitely not all) non-traditional applicants do have lower undergraduate GPAs and MCAT scores than their traditional counterparts and hope that by being non-traditional will make up for these lower numbers. This is not going to be the case as all applicants are judged by the same standards and those standards look to see how any particular applicant in any given year will enhance the prospective class.

Use your personal statement to articulate why you would make an excellent physician and why you would be an asset to a medical school class. If you status as a non-traditional applicant has conferred some additional "life experience" then make sure that you include that particular experience in your personal statement and be sure that you have explained its merits and assets.

"Life experience" by itself is not going to put you over the top if you do not have the grades, scores and LORs to otherwise make you competitive. Again, it will be your entire application within the context of its competitiveness with all others who are applying the same year as you. Make sure the whole package is great.

 

[QofQuimica]

So, it's not the status as non-trad, its the sucky GPA and MCATS.

You got it. If you have majorly sucky stats, being the coolest nontrad in the whole wide world ain't gonna save your, ahem, app. 😀

 

[zeff]

I would suggest being realistic when deciding where to apply. Osteopathic colleges certainly represent the best chance at acceptance. Places like UPenn, Hopkins, and Harvard are least likely to let a NTS into their class. Just do your research before spending all that secondary money.

Fool-congratulations on starting med school this year (this month?!), I am too, very excited, been working toward this for awhile now. And most of your post was right on, but I have to disagree with the last bit about the most competitive schools being the least friendly toward nontrad students. This was not my experience (I am a 27-year-old career-switcher), and I wouldn't want nontrad applicants to shy away from places with higher profiles just because the ink on their college degrees is long since dry. I was not accepted at two "middle-tier" schools I applied to, but did very well with the "top-tier" places, and I will be attending one of the schools you happened to mention in your example. This school has a bunch of nontrad students--the current issue of the med school magazine even has an article profiling four nontrad students currently at the school, who were a police officer, a lab rat, a newspaper reporter, and a humanitarian aid worker before applying to school. There is another nontrad student at the school--I swear I am not making this up--who was in the Ultimate Fighting Championship series for years before deciding to go to medical school.

Law2Doc is right, you need to have the numbers in order, but once that is done, nontrads can't help but stand out in a pile of 21-year-old bio majors who haven't done anything interesting with their lives yet.

Edit: I should have read the whole thread before posting, QofQuimica and Njbmd made this same point more eloquently above

 

[ShyRem]

That may be true, but there comes a time when your age gets in the way at certain med schools (don't ask me to name names - I won't). Also, you could have gone back and gotten a 4.0 undergrad degree from the biggest, baddest, hardest university in nuclear physics with a double major in biochemical engineering, but if you screwed up 20 years ago, your GPA will still be subpar and no, they won't overlook it.

Being a non-trad helps only if you don't have baggage, never messed up when you were younger, aren't too old, and have all your numbers in order. Of course, if you don't have those problems, you're pretty much in.

 

[Empi]

So far, so good with the stats.

I have been worried that the admissions powers-that-be would discriminate against me because I wouldn't be able to practice medicine long enough to justify my place in medical school.

 

[QofQuimica]

So far, so good with the stats.

I have been worried that the admissions powers-that-be would discriminate against me because I wouldn't be able to practice medicine long enough to justify my place in medical school.

I don't think age will be an issue at all for people in their late twenties. People in their thirties or early forties with a strong app (including excellent stats) who apply broadly to MD and/or DO programs again should be reasonably successful. (Applying over age 30 to MD/PhD programs is a whole 'nother story.) The path is pretty well blazed for nontrads under age 40, and most med school classes probably have at least some folks in their thirties. Since you're age 45 or above, I think it may be tougher for you in large part because there are so few precedents. That being said, there *are* a few med students in their late forties or early fifties out there. So if you are competitive academically, well, you might be unusual, but you definitely wouldn't be the first person to ever go to med school at that age. Maybe you should consider contacting your state school's admissions office and talking to them about applying as an older student if you haven't already.

BTW, I was also accepted (some with full scholarships) to several top schools as a 30-year-old applicant (matriculated at age 31). I'm far from being unique either at my school or here on this forum. So I agree with zeff that you shouldn't automatically write off the top schools just because you're not 22 years old, *IF* your app (including stats) is competitive for those schools. I think Shy is basically correct that what hurts older applicants most is that so many of us have poor previous academic records to overcome. When the med schools are literally receiving hundreds of apps from people with nearly perfect numbers, including apps from multiple nontrads with awesome stats, some of the schools probably tend to be less forgiving of nontrads with previous low grades. But, all top schools are not the same, and some of the top schools are surprisingly willing to give reformed older students a chance. 🙂

 

[zeff]

That may be true, but there comes a time when your age gets in the way at certain med schools (don't ask me to name names - I won't). Also, you could have gone back and gotten a 4.0 undergrad degree from the biggest, baddest, hardest university in nuclear physics with a double major in biochemical engineering, but if you screwed up 20 years ago, your GPA will still be subpar and no, they won't overlook it.

Being a non-trad helps only if you don't have baggage, never messed up when you were younger, aren't too old, and have all your numbers in order. Of course, if you don't have those problems, you're pretty much in.

I will mostly defer to wiser folks like Shy Rem who have actually attended a med school class (I cheated a bit by changing my status to "medical student" before school has actually begun). But I will say that, while a transcript full of D's may be an inescapable albatross around your neck, a few youthful indiscretions will not keep you out of med school, even the fancy ones with names starting with H's. I had about half-a-dozen grades on my undergraduate transcript which made me cringe as I entered them into AMCAS last year; one of them was so bad that I even got asked about it at an interview (this was at "middle-tier" school where I ultimately was not accepted, for what it's worth). I can also say with confidence that an incident in a bar involving too much testosterone, booze, and loudmouth Marines will not keep you out of medical school 🙂

Again, my view is not scientific, just based on the application experiences of me and my friends from post-bacc (one of whom had a 3.1 undergrad GPA and will be an M1 at Mt. Sinai this year). But I really believe that, if you can make a compelling case for why you are a good candidate for medical school today, you can make an adcomm overlook who you were five or ten years ago.