Advantages of attending a top 10 medical school?

[PinkPistol]

Hey everyone! I am a long time lurker and sdn has helped me out so much during this application year! Thanks to all those who post such insightful information. I have a question about the advantages of attending a top medical school (top 10). I was looking through the older sdn threads but I wanted more information.

My current situation: Originally, I was set on attending my state medical school-UVA. I love the school! I was fortunate enough to get waitlisted at 2 "top schools"- Columbia and Penn. Long story short, Columbia has been my dream school for a long time but I haven't gotten in (fingers crossed!).

But I just got off the waitlist at Penn! I am so happy and honored. After Penn's financial aid, the cost of UVA and Penn is pretty much the same. At Penn, I didn't fall in love like I did with Columbia or UVA. Also, my family lives in VA and Philadelphia is a little scary (no offense to any Philly natives lol). But at the same time, Penn is a great school and I didn't exactly hate it.

I have made a ton of pro/con lists. And I slightly favor UVA. But my main problem is I don't know how much of an advantage going to a top 10 school will give me in the future. I am potentially interested in academic medicine. Would going to Penn over UVa give me an advantage for residency placement/future careers? What are the advantages of attending a top tier school?

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[sinombre]

Hey everyone! I am a long time lurker and sdn has helped me out so much during this application year! Thanks to all those who post such insightful information. I have a question about the advantages of attending a top medical school (top 10). I was looking through the older sdn threads but I wanted more information.

My current situation: Originally, I was set on attending my state medical school-UVA. I love the school! I was fortunate enough to get waitlisted at 2 "top schools"- Columbia and Penn. Long story short, Columbia has been my dream school for a long time but I haven't gotten in (fingers crossed!).

But I just got off the waitlist at Penn! I am so happy and honored. After Penn's financial aid, the cost of UVA and Penn is pretty much the same. At Penn, I didn't fall in love like I did with Columbia or UVA. Also, my family lives in VA and Philadelphia is a little scary (no offense to any Philly natives lol). But at the same time, Penn is a great school and I didn't exactly hate it.

I have made a ton of pro/con lists. And I slightly favor UVA. But my main problem is I don't know how much of an advantage going to a top 10 school will give me in the future. I am potentially interested in academic medicine. Would going to Penn over UVa give me an advantage for residency placement/future careers? What are the advantages of attending a top tier school?

Nope.

You realize 10 is an arbitrary number, right?

 

[PinkPistol]

Nope.

You realize 10 is an arbitrary number, right?

Yes it is a completely arbitrary number lol.I just wanted to limit the scope, because "top school" can mean different things to different people. But thanks for answering my question. The reason I ask is b/c on some of the older threads ppl argued that name/reputation/ and so on can make a difference for residency directors. Thanks again.

 

[TheLastofUs]

In my opinion it makes a difference, all else equal you take the person from the better school. Plus I am fairly certain UPenn has a better "name" in medicine than UVA and if you plan on going into academics, these things matter.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Hey everyone! I am a long time lurker and sdn has helped me out so much during this application year! Thanks to all those who post such insightful information. I have a question about the advantages of attending a top medical school (top 10). I was looking through the older sdn threads but I wanted more information.

My current situation: Originally, I was set on attending my state medical school-UVA. I love the school! I was fortunate enough to get waitlisted at 2 "top schools"- Columbia and Penn. Long story short, Columbia has been my dream school for a long time but I haven't gotten in (fingers crossed!).

But I just got off the waitlist at Penn! I am so happy and honored. After Penn's financial aid, the cost of UVA and Penn is pretty much the same. At Penn, I didn't fall in love like I did with Columbia or UVA. Also, my family lives in VA and Philadelphia is a little scary (no offense to any Philly natives lol). But at the same time, Penn is a great school and I didn't exactly hate it.

I have made a ton of pro/con lists. And I slightly favor UVA. But my main problem is I don't know how much of an advantage going to a top 10 school will give me in the future. I am potentially interested in academic medicine. Would going to Penn over UVa give me an advantage for residency placement/future careers? What are the advantages of attending a top tier school?

yes

 

[jr93]

Yes it is a completely arbitrary number lol.I just wanted to limit the scope, because "top school" can mean different things to different people. But thanks for answering my question. The reason I ask is b/c on some of the older threads ppl argued that name/reputation/ and so on can make a difference for residency directors. Thanks again.

You already know which residency you want to get into? I am often one of those saying prestige and rank is meaningless but will admit that there is regional bias or preferences at certain residencies (at the same time, going Ivy may make it difficult to get into a midwest residency). However, if you have the skill and scores to get into ortho, you'll get into ortho, it just may not be in the northeast if you're from Texas or Alabama or Wyoming. If you already know which residency you want, I'd say pick your school based on that but I'd also say it's crazy to already know which residency you want. Always do what's best for you in the end.

 

[PinkPistol]

You already know which residency you want to get into? I am often one of those saying prestige and rank is meaningless but will admit that there is regional bias or preferences at certain residencies (at the same time, going Ivy may make it difficult to get into a midwest residency). However, if you have the skill and scores to get into ortho, you'll get into ortho, it just may not be in the northeast if you're from Texas or Alabama or Wyoming. If you already know which residency you want, I'd say pick your school based on that but I'd also say it's crazy to already know which residency you want. Always do what's best for you in the end.

Thanks for responding. I have no idea which residency I want to get into. I just don't want to close any doors for myself and I want to maximize all the opportunities I have been given.

 

[googoo]

In my opinion it makes a difference, all else equal you take the person from the better school. Plus I am fairly certain UPenn has a better "name" in medicine than UVA and if you plan on going into academics, these things matter.

+1

I think name matters for residency placement. If you compare matchlists, the top schools have phenomenal match lists. If you look at Duke's match list for example, around 60% of the class matches at a top 20 residency.

 

[sinombre]

+1

I think name matters for residency placement. If you compare matchlists, the top schools have phenomenal match lists. If you look at Duke's match list for example, around 60% of the class matches at a top 20 residency.

lol... the fact that a program is at a top medical school doesn't make it a top program.

 

[Geebeejay]

UVa will not close any doors. You might have an easier time matching into UPenn residencies if you were to pick UPenn, but that's about it. UVa is a good school and the students match well. I wouldn't really look too far into ranking as it is mostly based on $$, most of which never directly touches medical students.

 

[alerk323]

+1

I think name matters for residency placement. If you compare matchlists, the top schools have phenomenal match lists. If you look at Duke's match list for example, around 60% of the class matches at a top 20 residency.

obvious selection bias, same with undergrad med-school matriculation rates

 

[RogueUnicorn]

dude. go to penn. this is not a question

 

[googoo]

lol... the fact that a program is at a top medical school doesn't make it a top program.

For the class that matched in 2012 (looking at the match list right now):

60% matched into either:
Mass gen, brigham, Hopkins, UCSF, Duke, Columbia, Penn, Barnes-Jewish, UCLA, UW,Stanford, Emory, Vandy, or Pitt.

 

[Geebeejay]

For the class that matched in 2012 (looking at the match list right now):

60% matched into either:
Mass gen, brigham, Hopkins, UCSF, Duke, Columbia, Penn, Barnes-Jewish, UCLA, UW,Stanford, Emory, Vandy, or Pitt.

Top hospital also does not mean top residency. Have fun watching fellows and attendings do all the studly procedures in many of these programs.

wait....ERR MER GERD there is no US News World Report ranked Top Residency Program List! What are number-obsessed premeds gonna do?

 

[googoo]

Top hospital also does not mean top residency. Have fun watching fellows and attendings do all the studly procedures in many of these programs.

wait....ERR MER GERD there is no US News World Report ranked Top Residency Program List! What are number-obsessed premeds gonna do?

I didn't use US News rankings, but I used general opinion/knowledge and I did some research. There is a helpful SDN thread about top academic residencies:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=906704

 

[Geebeejay]

I didn't use US News rankings, but I used general opinion/knowledge and I did some research. There is a helpful SDN thread about top academic residencies:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=906704

Nice find, but only really useful if you're into academics...

Good point though that a top10 school will give you a better shot at landing academic medicine residencies....

 

[leon sandcastle]

OP go to UVA, i interviewed there also and I have to say there is nothing like southern hospitality. Also, having a strong support system like your family nearby is invaluable

 

[googoo]

Nice find.

Thanks!

but only really useful if you're into academics....

That is what the OP stated she/he is interested in

Good point though that a top10 school will give you a better shot at landing academic medicine residencies....

Is this sarcasm? The matchlists seem to indicate top schools gives you some type of an advantage.

 

[Geebeejay]

Thanks!

That is what the OP stated she/he is interested in

Is this sarcasm? The matchlists seem to indicate top schools gives you some type of an advantage.

not sarcasm

 

[NCKSD]

Is this sarcasm? The matchlists seem to indicate top schools gives you some type of an advantage.

Correlation =\= causation.

Top schools have students that excelled in undergrad and thus are more than likely to excel in med school (step 1 scores, etc). I'm sure those students would have matched to great residencies even if they went to lower ranked med schools.

 

[googoo]

Correlation =\= causation.

Top schools have students that excelled in undergrad and thus are more than likely to excel in med school (step 1 scores, etc). I'm sure those students would have matched to great residencies even if they went to lower ranked med schools.

The NRMP survey of residency directors shows that 53% of all residency directors consider attending a "highly regarded US medical school" as criteria in picking applicants to interview.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

True, top students get into top schools, but school brand also plays a role.

 

[gmcguitar4]

Going to a top program will only matter if you have the grades/board scores to go with it as well. Goto the school that you will be happiest and thrive at. You will probably end up doing better at that school.

 

[deleted547339]

For the class that matched in 2012 (looking at the match list right now):

60% matched into either:
Mass gen, brigham, Hopkins, UCSF, Duke, Columbia, Penn, Barnes-Jewish, UCLA, UW,Stanford, Emory, Vandy, or Pitt.

Lol. Because going to one of those hospitals is all that matters.

I come from a "below-average" state school. I applied to 8 of those programs for residency and got 7 interviews. Cancelled 3 of those because they just aren't that strong in my specialty. Of the 5 programs listed above at which I interviewed, I ranked 4 below the program at which I matched (Ranked 2, 5 then the others were >8 - matched at number 3). The only 1 of those programs I ranked higher than the program at which I matched was ranked as such because the city and wife's job prospects - honestly, it was a huge relief when I found out I matched at my number 3 (the place I wanted to go but will be tough on my wife's career).

Also got surveys from 2 (maybe 3?) of those programs asking why I didn't match with them.

Match lists are 100x more complicated than people give them credit for. You don't know where people want to live for residency or long-term, where their spouses want to live, which places have pretentious residents, which places have awesome PDs, which programs are strong in which field, which programs have good benefits, which residencies have a hx of placing residents into fellowships or have strong fellowships in the subspecialty people want to go into, what the person's financial situation looks like (might not be able to afford to NYC/Boston/SF/etc).

If I had matched at Harvard, I would have been a little upset. I don't feel the program is the type of set-up in which I would thrive. I wanted to buy a house, not live in a studio apartment. My wife is deathly afraid of the cold. I wanted to be close to home (south). People would have seen my school's match list and said "ooohhh" and "ahhhh" they matched that guy at Harvard. Instead, people will see my school's match list and say "oh, that's a decent school, but I wouldn't want to live there." Even still, I'm freaking thrilled. I called my wife from the airport after the interview and said "I want to com to XXX."

 

[mcloaf]

This is ridiculous.

You loved UVa and want to be close to your family. You're afraid of Philly and the best you can say of Penn is the you "didn't hate it".

Sure, Penn is more prestigious, but UVa is still a very well-regarded school.

 

[darkjedi]

If you are not that enthused about Penn, then I would not recommend going there. While top schools can potentially have more opportunities, they only matter if you are willing and excited to take advantage of them. A place like UVa still has a ton of opportunities as well.

While the residency programs at HMS, Penn and JHU are a little incestuous, in the grand scheme of things, UVa will not close any doors as others have mentioned. In particular, if you are looking to stay local for residency, and near your family, it would make sense to go to medical school there as it is slightly easier to land something closeby.

 

[0919mmk]

Going to a top program will only matter if you have the grades/board scores to go with it as well. Goto the school that you will be happiest and thrive at. You will probably end up doing better at that school.

This is ridiculous.

You loved UVa and want to be close to your family. You're afraid of Philly and the best you can say of Penn is the you "didn't hate it".

Sure, Penn is more prestigious, but UVa is still a very well-regarded school.

This. OP, ranking is great if all you care about is how many PhDs they have within 1 square mile. You should go to UVA because you love it, and that is WAY more important in the long run. You will perform better if you are excited about where you are, and YOUR performance is the only thing that matters at the end of 4 years. Plus, if you "don't hate" Philly coming in to Penn, just wait till a year from now. Not that Philly is a terrible place (I was at Penn), but if you have a less-than-awesome gut feeling, trust it.

 

[yehhhboiii]

It's cute when premeds opine on residency.

 

[Daodejing]

As you get older and should you choose to move on past the rungs of academia after residency/fellowship, the obsession with prestige wears off exponentially both individually and, in most cases, with your potential employers...or so I've heard/read. Ultimately, big brother reigns supreme, and we're all pawns under its might and discretion. Nothing trumps personal satisfaction with your life. Don't let the other names on your degree(s) dictate that for you - the only one that matters is your own.

 

[thesauce]

As you get older and should you choose to move on past the rungs of academia after residency/fellowship, the obsession with prestige wears off exponentially both individually and, in most cases, with your potential employers...or so I've heard/read. Ultimately, big brother reigns supreme, and we're all pawns under its might and discretion. Nothing trumps personal satisfaction with your life. Don't let the other names on your degree(s) dictate that for you - the only one that matters is your own.

Right, but there's little question that a top residency is going to help you get that first cush private practice gig.

OP: absolutely school name helps in gaining a prestigious residency - the real question is how much. And that really depends on the speciality you want. If it were me, there's no way I'd attend UVA over UPenn for the same price.

 

[Benedictus123]

I don't know about medical school, but as an Ivy Leaguer I can definitely say it comes in handy when you need to impress people at the right cocktail parties.

Of course Penn is always getting mixed up with Penn State, so there's that to consider too.

 

[TwinsFan]

Go where you are happiest, this will give you a much better chance at thriving in med school. If you do well then doors will open.

If name and prestige matter most to you, go with them. Think a couple years in the future, if you will be miserable at Penn but have access to the name and connections it might not bring any more success than UVA if you're happy and doing well. Then think farther down the road, will you regret not going to Penn more than possibly sacrificing years of happiness in med school? Take a little time and go with your gut.

 

[deleted547339]

I don't know about medical school, but as an Ivy Leaguer I can definitely say it comes in handy when you need to impress people at the right cocktail parties.

Of course Penn is always getting mixed up with Penn State, so there's that to consider too.

I am REALLY hoping this is a joke.

 

[circulus vitios]

Top-ranking med school will make it easier to get a top-ranking residency program. This might be important if you want to join a snooty and elite private practice group or go into academic medicine.

 

[Dingo Mango]

They are both great schools man, talk to people at both schools, visit again if you can, read up on programs, and most importantly, go with your gut. What you definitely should NOT base your decision on is what a bunch of creepers on SDN tell you.

 

[Dingo Mango]

(at the same time, going Ivy may make it difficult to get into a midwest residency)

Is this really a thing??

 

[sinombre]

Is this really a thing??

Regional bias?

 

[Benedictus123]

I am REALLY hoping this is a joke.

Yes.

But the cocktail party thing is true. I think that's the most use I've gotten out of that degree so far.

 

[Dingo Mango]

Regional bias?

Well I guess I was curious specifically between midwest/ivy... but when you put it that way I guess it makes sense. >_<

 

[yehhhboiii]

I don't know about medical school, but as an Ivy Leaguer I can definitely say it comes in handy when you need to impress people at the right cocktail parties.

Of course Penn is always getting mixed up with Penn State, so there's that to consider too.

It's an accomplishment to be sure but it rubs me the wrong way when people mention their school as "I went to school in Boston" and you can tell that they want you to ask if it's Harvard.

 

[aspiringdoc1234]

The NRMP survey of residency directors shows that 53% of all residency directors consider attending a "highly regarded US medical school" as criteria in picking applicants to interview.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

True, top students get into top schools, but school brand also plays a role.

That criteria was ranked like 20th, behind Step 1 score, LORs, personal statement, grades in clerkship, and even attending a US Allopathic medical school, among a dozen other higher reasons.

The fact is premeds need to get over this epeen obsession with rank. Will a top tier institution help slightly? Most likely yes, but it is highly dependent on your choice of specialty, where you want your career to be (academics vs private), and also the type of candidate YOU are in the first place.

As has been mentioned, premeds know very little about residency programs so trying to discriminate between match lists is useless. Go to a school you will excel in and I guarantee you will be able to match into your top residency as long as YOU have put in the work (and it's a US allopathic school).

 

[Dingo Mango]

It's an accomplishment to be sure but it rubs me the wrong way when people mention their school as "I went to school in Boston" and you can tell that they want you to ask if it's Harvard.

All the time at interviews. Also "I went to school in New Haven"

 

[RogueUnicorn]

The thing is, 99% of the folks who are shouting about how little ranking matters have, or will have, applied to several of these allegedly "top" schools. If it matters so little, why do they apply there to start with?

Even if it matters only a little, the difference between ranking to match and not can be literally hundredths of a point. Why would anyone deprive themselves of this? My best friend went to a state school, and despite doing everything correctly (255 step 1, ~270 step 2, HHMI, all around awesome guy), because he decided in med school he wanted to be a neurosurgeon, he didn't match at the level he hoped/deserved. Similar stats at a top school would have landed him in one of several places he would have preferred to have been. N=1 but there you go.

 

[sobored]

The thing is, 99% of the folks who are shouting about how little ranking matters have, or will have, applied to several of these allegedly "top" schools. If it matters so little, why do they apply there to start with?

Even if it matters only a little, the difference between ranking to match and not can be literally hundredths of a point. Why would anyone deprive themselves of this? My best friend went to a state school, and despite doing everything correctly (255 step 1, ~270 step 2, HHMI, all around awesome guy), because he decided in med school he wanted to be a neurosurgeon, he didn't match at the level he hoped/deserved. Similar stats at a top school would have landed him in one of several places he would have preferred to have been. N=1 but there you go.

I completely agree with you that school matters. In fact, I probably think it matters more than most people think (just based off my own experience talking with PDs of a couple programs). But, regarding your friend, that seems weird. Bad clinical grades? Poor letters? There must be something other than just his school that stopped him from matching a top program with those kinds of stats/ECs. And what do you mean he didn't match at "the level he hoped/deserved"? Did he only hope to match at JHU/UCSF? Surely he landed in a fantastic program.

And OP, I would go to Penn, but should you decide UVA, I doubt it would hold you back from doing what you want to do.

 

[jr93]

The thing is, 99% of the folks who are shouting about how little ranking matters have, or will have, applied to several of these allegedly "top" schools. If it matters so little, why do they apply there to start with?

Even if it matters only a little, the difference between ranking to match and not can be literally hundredths of a point. Why would anyone deprive themselves of this? My best friend went to a state school, and despite doing everything correctly (255 step 1, ~270 step 2, HHMI, all around awesome guy), because he decided in med school he wanted to be a neurosurgeon, he didn't match at the level he hoped/deserved. Similar stats at a top school would have landed him in one of several places he would have preferred to have been. N=1 but there you go.

When people have good stats and don't get into med school or residency, they immediately look for something to blame. Maybe he/she doesn't interview well or has bad letters. Assuming that they would've gotten in if from a different school is a rather large assumption. You can go to a top school, score above the necessary score for your field on step 1, and still get numerous rejections...it's not that big of a deal...Just like you can go Ivy, get a 4.0, and a 36 MCAT and still not get in to any school. There are tons of stud applicants all the time and sometimes you lose to all of them or you just caught the reviewer on a bad day.

 

[dahassa]

The thing is, 99% of the folks who are shouting about how little ranking matters have, or will have, applied to several of these allegedly "top" schools. If it matters so little, why do they apply there to start with?

Even if it matters only a little, the difference between ranking to match and not can be literally hundredths of a point. Why would anyone deprive themselves of this? My best friend went to a state school, and despite doing everything correctly (255 step 1, ~270 step 2, HHMI, all around awesome guy), because he decided in med school he wanted to be a neurosurgeon, he didn't match at the level he hoped/deserved. Similar stats at a top school would have landed him in one of several places he would have preferred to have been. N=1 but there you go.

+1
The caliber of the medical school you attend is clearly a factor in residency placement. Of course things like Step 1 score, clinical grades, LOR, interview, research, ect matter. But medical school reputation does play a small role. If the question is does Penn give a slight edge over UVA for most top academic residencies? The answer is yes.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I completely agree with you that school matters. In fact, I probably think it matters more than most people think (just based off my own experience talking with PDs of a couple programs). But, regarding your friend, that seems weird. Bad clinical grades? Poor letters? There must be something other than just his school that stopped him from matching a top program with those kinds of stats/ECs. And what do you mean he didn't match at "the level he hoped/deserved"? Did he only hope to match at JHU/UCSF? Surely he landed in a fantastic program.

And OP, I would go to Penn, but should you decide UVA, I doubt it would hold you back from doing what you want to do.

Don't get me wrong, he matched well, just not at top shelf NS programs. Definitely second tier. It might seem "weird" but it is what it is; we'll never know exactly why he didn't match at top programs (and no, his letters and clinical grades are fine), but it's extremely unlikely that school didn't play a role. My school internally tracks match statistics and it's pretty eye opening as to how much reputation seems to stretch. Again, the margin between candidates can be really slim.

 

[aspiringdoc1234]

The thing is, 99% of the folks who are shouting about how little ranking matters have, or will have, applied to several of these allegedly "top" schools. If it matters so little, why do they apply there to start with?

Even if it matters only a little, the difference between ranking to match and not can be literally hundredths of a point. Why would anyone deprive themselves of this? My best friend went to a state school, and despite doing everything correctly (255 step 1, ~270 step 2, HHMI, all around awesome guy), because he decided in med school he wanted to be a neurosurgeon, he didn't match at the level he hoped/deserved. Similar stats at a top school would have landed him in one of several places he would have preferred to have been. N=1 but there you go.

1) Location. Many of the best medical schools across the country are in great cities to live in. SF, NYC, Chicago, etc. Lets be honest, few pre-meds say "omg I would love to live in the middle of Nebraska, Minnesota, etc."

2) As obvious by this thread, pre-meds ARE influenced by prestige. They hear Harvard, Yale, Hopkins and immediately believe they MUST get into a top tier med school to land their top residency. It's really during the med school trail, and after talking to other people, you find that most US Allopathic schools prepare you well enough to land a good residency, and it's up to your individual performance to land you a great residency.

Again, I'm not debating with you that school reputation matters to PDs. I am arguing that there are more important factors and in the end it will matter only slightly if you've done everything right. As you said, your n=1 and I could go the other way and talk about a kid from the Caribbean who was accepted to Harvard for residency. Let's not talk in n=1's please.

 

[JoshuaGuit]

All the time at interviews. Also "I went to school in New Haven"

Quinnipiac??

 

[dahassa]

1)

Again, I'm not debating with you that school reputation matters to PDs. I am arguing that there are more important factors and in the end it will matter only slightly if you've done everything right. As you said, your n=1 and I could go the other way and talk about a kid from the Caribbean who was accepted to Harvard for residency. Let's not talk in n=1's please.

I totally agree, and I think this needs to be mentioned often so that people don't get the wrong idea. However, medical school reputation plays a role.

Look at the neurosurgery residents at Mass Gen:
http://residents.neurosurgery.mgh.harvard.edu/CurrentResidents.html

Out of 17 residents, 15 went to a top tier medical school.

Look at the Brigham. Out of 16 residents, 13 went to a top tier medical school.
http://www.brighamandwomens.org/Dep...sidencyprogram/NSUCurrentResidents.aspx?sub=0

At, UCSF 16 out of 18 went to a top medical school.
http://neurosurgery.ucsf.edu/index.php/about_us_residents.html

Same results for Columbia NY-Presb.

Why are the same schools represented in these rankings? There are other applicants from non-top tier medical schools w/ research, good step 1, ect. But clearly, there is some institutional bias.

 

[yehhhboiii]

The thing is, 99% of the folks who are shouting about how little ranking matters have, or will have, applied to several of these allegedly "top" schools. If it matters so little, why do they apply there to start with?

Even if it matters only a little, the difference between ranking to match and not can be literally hundredths of a point. Why would anyone deprive themselves of this? My best friend went to a state school, and despite doing everything correctly (255 step 1, ~270 step 2, HHMI, all around awesome guy), because he decided in med school he wanted to be a neurosurgeon, he didn't match at the level he hoped/deserved. Similar stats at a top school would have landed him in one of several places he would have preferred to have been. N=1 but there you go.

I just applied to every instate school. Not my fault that there are top schools there.