Advice for a med-school hopeful?

[niabrams]

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[realmeaning]

I'm just starting out on this road too, but the basic advice I have is:

--Continue taking courses, as many as you can while working and at a four year university if possible. The courseload is something only you can decide, but when in doubt, less is better because you can't afford to F up your GPA again. Better to take one or two courses for the first semester or two and get A's than to take 4 and get two B's (also, I know you're working so 4 at a time is probably not going to happen.)

--Start volunteering at a clinic or hospital. Also look into research at the local university if at all possible. I feel that research, because it is more academically structured and 'logical,' helps boost a low GPA more than volunteering, although both are obviously important

Your GPA is weak but your Master's will help. Your undergrad postbacc courses are key to getting that Ugrad GPA up, and after taking the pre-reqs, some upper level Ugrad science courses are advised.

Post-bacc students like us are encouraged to spend at least 2 years on the career transition. Your A's in these classes plus extracurriculars will need to show adcoms that you're for real about this switch, especially because you already have a Master's under your belt and are a bit more specialized in that sense.

Good luck!

 

[ThirdEye]

You're in good shape, IMO. If you retake that bio, take bio II, and take organic I and II then you'll be just about ready to apply for DO schools with a 26+ mcat. It might be wise to retake the gen chems too, if you know you can get As. At the least, it'll help you prep for the mcat.

MD school arent out of reach either, they just don't do grade replacement so you'll have to rack up a bit more As in sciences and of course shoot for a 30+ mcat.

 

[niabrams]

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[ShoTyme]

Assuming I will be going for the MD, what courses do you think I should take? I am for sure taking organic and bio II. Should I do bio/orgo lab too, or should I put my energy into another course? Also, do you think I should start volunteering - and if so, should I do research or something else?

Thanks a lot!

Whether you are going for MD or DO, you need to do the same (usually) prereq's.

1 year bio with labs
1 year gen chem with labs
1 year organic chem with labs
1 year physics with labs
1 year english
statistics

Some schools require 1 year of upper level bio. Some require biochem. Some require calc instead of stats, or both. Get A's in everything. You will be below average GPA wise for MD. You will need a killer MCAT and good story for MD. You will have a better shot at DO, but MD like was stated before is not out of the question, but more difficult. So, if I were to assume you went the MD route exclusively, I would assume you would NOT get in unless everything went perfectly with grades, MCAT, ps, LOR's, EC's - basically, that's a lot of if's. Keep an open mind to DO. But control what you can control. Take all the prereq's with an A in ALL of them.

 

[niabrams]

Some schools require 1 year of upper level bio. Some require biochem. Some require calc instead of stats, or both. Get A's in everything. You will be below average GPA wise for MD. You will need a killer MCAT and good story for MD. You will have a better shot at DO, but MD like was stated before is not out of the question, but more difficult. So, if I were to assume you went the MD route exclusively, I would assume you would NOT get in unless everything went perfectly with grades, MCAT, ps, LOR's, EC's - basically, that's a lot of if's. Keep an open mind to DO. But control what you can control. Take all the prereq's with an A in ALL of them.

Thanks. I plan to volunteer on weekends (if anyone accepts me), but would I also need to shadow? I am afraid that shadowing might not be possible given my workload and the fact that I am no longer a college student. Also, what counts as a "killer" MCAT?

If I were, say, to take the DO route, what would I need as far as MCATs go?

I currently have stats and calc, so I guess I need orgo, bio 2 and perhaps biochemistry.

 

[ShoTyme]

Thanks. I plan to volunteer on weekends (if anyone accepts me), but would I also need to shadow? I am afraid that shadowing might not be possible given my workload and the fact that I am no longer a college student. Also, what counts as a "killer" MCAT?

If I were, say, to take the DO route, what would I need as far as MCATs go?

I currently have stats and calc, so I guess I need orgo, bio 2 and perhaps biochemistry.

Your GPA is still below average for even DO schools as it stands now, which is what we have to go on as there does not seem to be an upward trend as of yet. I would think you would need an "above average" MCAT score for DO schools with below average everything else. So if I were you, I would be looking at around a 30. MD schools, well, you would need to ace everything, and get above average for that school... typically, 35 or above. This is not easy.

Shadowing is easy. It's a pain in the butt, but why not just knock out a few hours to "check the box" as they say? Couldn't hurt and it's a small time investment in the grand scheme of things.

 

[niabrams]

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[NightGod]

How much volunteering would I need to do? If I am coming in on weekends for 1.5 yrs+, for a couple of hours, would that be sufficient?

Yeah, that should be more than enough time. 100-200 seems about average.


How long has it been since you took those science classes? A lot of schools want to see them taken within the last seven years or so, so you might have to take them all no matter what.

 

[ShoTyme]

How much volunteering would I need to do? If I am coming in on weekends for 1.5 yrs+, for a couple of hours, would that be sufficient?

That's plenty imo. It's more about do you have other interests other than medicine. Are you a good person. That kind of thing.... at least that's what I gather as I am not yet a doctor, nor in medical school; I'm merely a premed like yourself. But I have worked hard. Hopefully it will pay off. In my case, I have very little volunteering, but my overall stats are good. This seems to be a very inexact science. What I have learned is that if you are weak in one area, best to be strong in another... hence the reasoning in my posts. Hope that makes sense.

 

[niabrams]

I'm 23, and took them when I was 18/19. As far as other interests go, I'm really into finance and operations (if that makes any difference). I'm taking my CFA Level 1 exam in December.

I'm hoping to start volunteering as soon as possible, but it seems my options are limited. What sort of volunteering is preferable/acceptable? If I am volunteering weekends in a clinic, are some positions preferable to others?

 

[NightGod]

I'm 23, and took them when I was 18/19. As far as other interests go, I'm really into finance and operations (if that makes any difference). I'm taking my CFA Level 1 exam in December.

I'm hoping to start volunteering as soon as possible, but it seems my options are limited. What sort of volunteering is preferable/acceptable? If I am volunteering weekends in a clinic, are some positions preferable to others?

Any position that allows you to have at least some sort of interaction with patients (the famous LizzyM "if you can smell them, you're interacting with them" test) instead of sitting in a back office and shuffling paper is preferred. Though you can get your clinical experience doing a lot of shadowing (if that's possible) and get volunteer hours doing, well, damn near anything. They don't have to be mutually inclusive.

 

[niabrams]

By the time I apply to med schools, it will have been 7-ish years since I took some of my introductory science courses. BUT if I take organic chemistry and bio II and do well, will this 'prove' to med schools that I still know the material?

 

[NightGod]

By the time I apply to med schools, it will have been 7-ish years since I took some of my introductory science courses. BUT if I take organic chemistry and bio II and do well, will this 'prove' to med schools that I still know the material?

That's a question you pretty much have to ask the schools you want to apply to. Some say "seven years for all the classes, max, end of story" some say 10, some are willing to overlook it with a couple higher levels to prove you can handle it. Just far too varied to give a blanket statement.

 

[niabrams]

What about DO schools?

Also, if I were to take orgo and bio (and labs) in a classroom, would it be permissible to concurrently take a course such as Biochemistry and/or Physiology online? It would still be through an accredited university (U of Minnesota), but it seems that would be the only way I could fit it in with my work schedule.

 

[ShoTyme]

Don't take organic concurrently with biochem. Once you start organic, you will understand why. Also taking a science online is very difficult. It can be done, but I wouldn't with biochem for sure. I did it with neurobiology (neuroscience), but it was really much more difficult than it needed to be.

 

[niabrams]

Don't take organic concurrently with biochem. Once you start organic, you will understand why. Also taking a science online is very difficult. It can be done, but I wouldn't with biochem for sure. I did it with neurobiology (neuroscience), but it was really much more difficult than it needed to be.

If I *just* take organic, how many hours per day/night do you think I will have to spend studying? I also will be working 40+ hrs per week, so I want to make sure I can fit it in before I commit.

 

[ShoTyme]

If I *just* take organic, how many hours per day/night do you think I will have to spend studying? I also will be working 40+ hrs per week, so I want to make sure I can fit it in before I commit.

That all depends on you. Everyone learns at different speeds. Never has this been more true than for this class. I was in the class with a high school kid that rolled out of bed, hardly studied, and still knew it so well he could have taught it. He said he skimmed his book at lunch breaks and before classes. Crazy smart. Btw... he's off to Yale. Anyway... I had to work VERY hard for it. The best way imo to study for it is to spend at least an hour on it everyday with a bit more on the weekends. It's like learning a language. The only way to be good at it is to practice practice practice. And before you ask, thing you can do to prepare is get Organic Chemistry as a Second Language by David Klein. It will be your bible.

 

[niabrams]

That all depends on you. Everyone learns at different speeds. Never has this been more true than for this class. I was in the class with a high school kid that rolled out of bed, hardly studied, and still knew it so well he could have taught it. He said he skimmed his book at lunch breaks and before classes. Crazy smart. Btw... he's off to Yale. Anyway... I had to work VERY hard for it. The best way imo to study for it is to spend at least an hour on it everyday with a bit more on the weekends. It's like learning a language. The only way to be good at it is to practice practice practice. And before you ask, thing you can do to prepare is get Organic Chemistry as a Second Language by David Klein. It will be your bible.

That's definitely encouraging. I figure 40-45 hours of work + 15 hours of class a week leaves me with 15 hours for sleep & studying per day. Subtract out getting to & from everything and I get about 6 hrs of study time per day. Not all that much, but I think I can hoof it.

So say I just do organic these next two semesters, then do bio & lab in the fall. If I do the online biochem course, would that be sufficient?

 

[ShoTyme]

That's definitely encouraging. I figure 40-45 hours of work + 15 hours of class a week leaves me with 15 hours for sleep & studying per day. Subtract out getting to & from everything and I get about 6 hrs of study time per day. Not all that much, but I think I can hoof it.

So say I just do organic these next two semesters, then do bio & lab in the fall. If I do the online biochem course, would that be sufficient?

You'll do bio 1 or bio 2? Or both really since your bio 1 was below where it "needs" to be. For DO especially because of grade replacement, it would be a good idea to retake 1. But really, that's the minimum. IF you get A's in everything, then study for the MCAT. Give yourself tons of time and take it seriously... like full time job seriously. Crush it. Then you would have a decent shot. Good luck. Everyone is rooting for you. Keep us updated on your progress.

 

[niabrams]

You'll do bio 1 or bio 2? Or both really since your bio 1 was below where it "needs" to be. For DO especially because of grade replacement, it would be a good idea to retake 1. But really, that's the minimum. IF you get A's in everything, then study for the MCAT. Give yourself tons of time and take it seriously... like full time job seriously. Crush it. Then you would have a decent shot. Good luck. Everyone is rooting for you. Keep us updated on your progress.

Thank you so much for all of your advice. I really want to do this and am prepared to give it everything I have.

Just two more questions:
First, say I take two semesters of orgo, then two semesters of biology with one semester of biochem online/with professor correspondence. Would this be sufficient for a medical school?

Also, would it be possible to study for the MCAT while taking the bio/biochem courses? Or is this too crazy of a load? I am 23 and would love to be applying for schools when I'm 25. If it must take longer, then I can stand it, but I want to do this as thoroughly (and quickly) as possible.

 

[NightGod]

Organic and Biology (not Biochem) should be plenty doable, especially with Bio being a retake and I would personally recommend not shying away from it. Remember that med schools not only want to see that you can do the work, they want to see at least some evidence that you can handle a lot of work at once, as well.

Last semester I did 18 CR (including Physics and Calc and a literature course that escalated from 3 weeks to read 20 pages to reading 500 page books in a week (actually less than a week, because you had to be able to discuss the book for a few days, as well) plus full time work plus volunteering. It was hell occasionally, but I pulled straight As in 5 classes and still made time to have a bit of a social life and to remind my kids that they had a father. Being able to function on minimal sleep helps. I don't intend on doing a crazy work load like that again until med school, but it's good to have a gut check like that to prove to both yourself and the Adcoms that you won't buckle under a packed schedule.

 

[ShoTyme]

Thank you so much for all of your advice. I really want to do this and am prepared to give it everything I have.

Just two more questions:
First, say I take two semesters of orgo, then two semesters of biology with one semester of biochem online/with professor correspondence. Would this be sufficient for a medical school?

Also, would it be possible to study for the MCAT while taking the bio/biochem courses? Or is this too crazy of a load? I am 23 and would love to be applying for schools when I'm 25. If it must take longer, then I can stand it, but I want to do this as thoroughly (and quickly) as possible.

Again these classes are the minimum medical schools require. I can't tell you for sure if the minimum will be enough. With a killer MCAT, then yeah probably. With an average MCAT, then maybe not. If you really want to do this as fast as possible as you say, then quit your job and take classes full time. Or go to part time employment and take bio and orgo at the same time. But when it comes to studying for the MCAT, do NOT take any other classes. That need to be your sole and complete focus. But that is one person's opinion. I'm sure others have done it while working full time and taking a crazy course load. I said in the very beginning that everyone is different. Maybe I just have to work harder than most. Or maybe I'm just more honest with myself and my abilities. Either way, I couldn't do MCAT prep while taking classes.

 

[niabrams]

Organic and Biology (not Biochem) should be plenty doable, especially with Bio being a retake and I would personally recommend not shying away from it. Remember that med schools not only want to see that you can do the work, they want to see at least some evidence that you can handle a lot of work at once, as well.

Last semester I did 18 CR (including Physics and Calc and a literature course that escalated from 3 weeks to read 20 pages to reading 500 page books in a week (actually less than a week, because you had to be able to discuss the book for a few days, as well) plus full time work plus volunteering. It was hell occasionally, but I pulled straight As in 5 classes and still made time to have a bit of a social life and to remind my kids that they had a father. Being able to function on minimal sleep helps. I don't intend on doing a crazy work load like that again until med school, but it's good to have a gut check like that to prove to both yourself and the Adcoms that you won't buckle under a packed schedule.

Wow, that is really impressive. If I may ask, how many hours was your full-time job? I am going to be working 40+ hours at a company with plenty of opportunities for career advancement, so I don't want to have to sacrifice that for a shot at med school.

Also, say I just take bio II and biochem (after reviewing my bio). If I am taking biochem online, do you think this would be sufficient for adcomms?

 

[Algophiliac]

You'll do bio 1 or bio 2? Or both really since your bio 1 was below where it "needs" to be. For DO especially because of grade replacement, it would be a good idea to retake 1. But really, that's the minimum. IF you get A's in everything, then study for the MCAT. Give yourself tons of time and take it seriously... like full time job seriously. Crush it. Then you would have a decent shot. Good luck. Everyone is rooting for you. Keep us updated on your progress.

Could you give a general metric as to what is considered too low? With the plus/minus grading system, I am not actually certain if C- courses count for pre-reqs, despite being abysmal? Most of my grades were Bs and Cs, which is why I am asking--although I'd prefer to avoid retakes and demonstrate my skills in the subjects by taking higher level courses.

 

[ShoTyme]

Could you give a general metric as to what is considered too low? With the plus/minus grading system, I am not actually certain if C- courses count for pre-reqs, despite being abysmal? Most of my grades were Bs and Cs, which is why I am asking--although I'd prefer to avoid retakes and demonstrate my skills in the subjects by taking higher level courses.

Yeah, I'm not on the +- system so I am not familiar with it. I believe though that you are correct in that a C- would need to be retaken. I personally would retake a C if it was in a prereq class. If is was in volleyball, I'd move on.

 

[niabrams]

Yeah, I'm not on the +- system so I am not familiar with it. I believe though that you are correct in that a C- would need to be retaken. I personally would retake a C if it was in a prereq class. If is was in volleyball, I'd move on.

What about for post-bacc classes like career-changers? What are my chances there?