Advice for A PGY-1 Hopeful

[technician107]

Hello -

I haven't posted in here a while but I just wanted some advice on how to be competitive. I am currently a P2. I know that I want to apply for a residency, but I want to get advice on what more I can do. I currently have a 3.63 GPA, Vice President of a fraternity, involved in SGA, Tutor, and on the curriculum committee as a student voice amongst the faculty. I currently work in a hospital (5 months so far) and have worked in long term care for four years as a tech then an intern and before that, four years as a pharm tech in retail.

I am concerned because I know how hard it is to apply and be competitive for residencies - but what more can I do - Any advice?

Thanks!

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[fiorio]

clinical research?
you look competitive
sign up for challenging rotations

 

[technician107]

Clinical research is one thing where I don't know how to get involved in. =\ I guess asking around faculty is a first step.

 

[NCW9682]

i would love for someone to please explain the benefit of doing research or residency. I have worked in both hospital and retail (granted it was locally owned in the best neighborhood). I feel like clinical pharmacy takes away from the true nature of pharmacy which is serving the community...not parading around in a long coat but being there for people on demand. The whole doctorate title to me is irrelevant. We arent doctors...we are pharmacists.

 

[spacecowgirl]

i would love for someone to please explain the benefit of doing research or residency. I have worked in both hospital and retail (granted it was locally owned in the best neighborhood). I feel like clinical pharmacy takes away from the true nature of pharmacy which is serving the community...not parading around in a long coat but being there for people on demand. The whole doctorate title to me is irrelevant. We arent doctors...we are pharmacists.

Is that what you think the true nature of pharmacy is? I guess our ideas differ.

 

[PharmNerdMatt]

i would love for someone to please explain the benefit of doing research or residency. I have worked in both hospital and retail (granted it was locally owned in the best neighborhood). I feel like clinical pharmacy takes away from the true nature of pharmacy which is serving the community...not parading around in a long coat but being there for people on demand. The whole doctorate title to me is irrelevant. We arent doctors...we are pharmacists.

You will find that those in hospital/clinical services disagree with your premise. Also, this isn't the most neutral way to phrase a question. I feel I am serving my community, only for those who a critically ill at the time. How does assisting those people help the community less than working retail? I think you are also going to find that you will get to do much less "serving" at somewhere like Walgreens or CVS.

Good residencies are an attempt to cram the knowledge that 3-5 years of experience gives you in to 1 year.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

How are you not serving your community by taking care of patients in the hospital? We're not parading around in lab coats for fun. You sound like someone that's bitter and has a chip on your shoulder for some reason.

 

[gwarm01]

Good residencies are an attempt to cram the knowledge that 3-5 years of experience gives you in to 1 year.

Oh, we've decided that a PGY1 is worth 5 years of experience now have we?

 

[PharmNerdMatt]

Oh, we've decided that a PGY1 is worth 5 years of experience now have we?

Depends on the residency and the equivalent job. For most jobs, I would say 3 years. For some... maybe a slower community hospital without a 24 hour pharmacy vs a residency at a large medical center might be more like 5.

Of course, there are things that a residency cannot teach you. Most PGY1 graduates would have less skill (rather than knowledge) than would someone who had been working a regular staffing job for 1 year. Being able to do things efficiently, managing people, managing multiple tasks, knowing what to do when you are 2 pharmacists and 3 techs short with the hospital nearly full; all those things can only be learned by actually doing.

So no, a residency does not provide you with 5 years of experience at a similar institution. It might provide the knowledge that 5 years doing something would provide, but that depends on what you are doing. Our pediatric institution sees more patients in a month than the other local hospital with a pediatric unit will see in 5 years.

 

[technician107]

Well, update. I got a summer internship with John Hopkins as a Pharmacy Administration Intern. So I hope that definitely puts me in the competitive range.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

Well, update. I got a summer internship with John Hopkins as a Pharmacy Administration Intern. So I hope that definitely puts me in the competitive range.

Yup, I think that'll give you a big boost.

 

[bacillus1]

Here's advice that lots of people choose to ignore: apply broadly. You have good stats, but so does everyone else that applies to top-tier programs. I don't mean that you shouldn't apply to super-competitive programs, but you should also throw some "safety" programs into the mix that you could see yourself at, but that aren't as competitive.

 

[RGD1077]

In response to Gwarms comments: Yes look at many clinical position postings. Institutions hiring new applicants look at residency as being anywhere from worth to 2-5 years of "practice". The reason for this is that residents work 12-14 hours days, depending on the site and are expected to juggle clinical, administrative, research and teaching activities. I would love to know why you think residency is worth anything less, unless this is based purely on anecdotal evidence which will not help your argument. Residency trains you in clinical experience but more importantly how to manage multiple projects, teaching and clinical (evidence based) practice. Residency is an invaluable experience that will help you in the long run, don't listen to people who believe residency is a poor choice.

 

[technician107]

Here's advice that lots of people choose to ignore: apply broadly. You have good stats, but so does everyone else that applies to top-tier programs. I don't mean that you shouldn't apply to super-competitive programs, but you should also throw some "safety" programs into the mix that you could see yourself at, but that aren't as competitive.

Honestly, I was worried I wouldn't get a residency at all - so I was just hoping I was competitive to get into SOMEWHERE. I have two programs that are mentally my top in my mind. One of them I know is very competitive and the other I'm not really sure how competitive it is. I was going to start looking into more programs over the summer and go to Midyear in December.

 

[gwarm01]

In response to Gwarms comments: Yes look at many clinical position postings. Institutions hiring new applicants look at residency as being anywhere from worth to 2-5 years of "practice". The reason for this is that residents work 12-14 hours days, depending on the site and are expected to juggle clinical, administrative, research and teaching activities. I would love to know why you think residency is worth anything less, unless this is based purely on anecdotal evidence which will not help your argument. Residency trains you in clinical experience but more importantly how to manage multiple projects, teaching and clinical (evidence based) practice. Residency is an invaluable experience that will help you in the long run, don't listen to people who believe residency is a poor choice.

I don't doubt the value of residency training, and in fact I have interviewed for a PGY1 recently after two years of specialty practice. However, I still find it laughable to consider a PGY1 equivalent to five years of experience. Again, this entirely depends on the institution, quality of the program, and quality of the resident. I hope you'll forgive me for going into anecdotal territory despite the warning, but every resident I have worked with has the required the same training as a new graduate to get on their feet. I suppose this is why I feel that residency gives you three years of clinical knowledge, but in most other regards you are essentially a new graduate.

The idea that you actually need a residency to be a staff pharmacist is kind of laughable, yet we find ourselves in a situation where many pharmacists spend a year or more at greatly reduced pay only to end up doing the exact same job as a new graduate with decent interviewing skills. It's a lot of time and a lot of money to sacrifice for very little payoff. I'm hopeful for a future where provider status leads to more practitioner roles (see this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/clinical-pharmacist-practitioner.824780/ ) in which case the additional training makes much more sense and is a valuable use of one's time.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I don't doubt the value of residency training, and in fact I have interviewed for a PGY1 recently after two years of specialty practice. However, I still find it laughable to consider a PGY1 equivalent to five years of experience. Again, this entirely depends on the institution, quality of the program, and quality of the resident. I hope you'll forgive me for going into anecdotal territory despite the warning, but every resident I have worked with has the required the same training as a new graduate to get on their feet. I suppose this is why I feel that residency gives you three years of clinical knowledge, but in most other regards you are essentially a new graduate.

The idea that you actually need a residency to be a staff pharmacist is kind of laughable, yet we find ourselves in a situation where many pharmacists spend a year or more at greatly reduced pay only to end up doing the exact same job as a new graduate with decent interviewing skills. It's a lot of time and a lot of money to sacrifice for very little payoff. I'm hopeful for a future where provider status leads to more practitioner roles (see this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/clinical-pharmacist-practitioner.824780/ ) in which case the additional training makes much more sense and is a valuable use of one's time.

I don't feel a pgy-1 residency is equal to 5 years of experience. I feel you gain so much more clinical experience and confidence though in that 1 year that might take you 2-3 years to gain as a new grad though. Also, there's always going to be some level of training regardless of your experience whenever you go a new institution. You may have to learn a new computer system, new protocols, etc. it's never going to be jump right in and get started. However, I think the clinical experience is there vs a new graduate. Also, if you take a new grad and put them in one area to staff for three years vs a newly finished resident, I think you'll notice a difference. With the new grad that staffed in one area, they will most likely only be use to and comfortable with what they've seen for that specific area they worked. Residents get training in different areas so I think they get a well rounded experience and would feel comfortable jumping from one place to the next. Of course, these are all generalized statements and there will be exceptions to the rules.

 

[Dred Pirate]

to say it is five years is a joke - I will take someone with 5 years experience and no residency any day. Honestly I think 3 years is a stretch - When hiring I would recommend a Rph with 3 years experience over a residency most times. Residency does give you a much more solid base of knowledge, but you cannot replace real world experience. All programs are different, and all people are different. I would saw an average residency is a hair less beneficial than 3 years of experience.