Advice for an Ortho Gunner

[Dr. Scribe]

Hey guys,

Recently accepted to MD school and want to gun for Ortho @ HSS (Cornell). Can anyone give me some advice besides do well in class/step 1? Should I do a lot of ortho research (clinical or bench)? Any input would be really appreciated.

Thanks!

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[VincentAdultman]

Hey guys,

Recently accepted to MD school and want to gun for Ortho @ HSS (Cornell). Can anyone give me some advice besides do well in class/step 1? Should I do a lot of ortho research (clinical or bench)? Any input would be really appreciated.

Thanks!

Honor all your rotations, score 260 plus on Step One, make a few presentations, get a couple first author publications, make AOA (this one won't be hard because you've already honored all your rotations), rotate there (obv) maybe know a few people on faculty there, and if you're really motivated, design a revolutionary new knee prosthesis.

If you do that, I think you'd have a solid chance for HSS.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

Honor all your rotations, score 260 plus on Step One, make a few presentations, get a couple first author publications, make AOA (this one won't be hard because you've already honored all your rotations), rotate there (obv) maybe know a few people on faculty there, and if you're really motivated, design a revolutionary new knee prosthesis.

If you do that, I think you'd have a solid chance for HSS.

I know you're being sarcastic but I'm curious and am going to ask you anyway- do you think I should try to do clinical research or bench research on an ortho related topic (think osteosarcoma)?

 

[VincentAdultman]

I know you're being sarcastic but I'm curious and am going to ask you anyway- do you think I should try to do clinical research or bench research on an ortho related topic (think osteosarcoma)?

I'm not really being sarcastic. HSS is pretty tough. Even with an amazing application you may not match there.

 

[CaptainSSO]

I know you're being sarcastic but I'm curious and am going to ask you anyway- do you think I should try to do clinical research or bench research on an ortho related topic (think osteosarcoma)?

Bench research is fairly tough to do during med school, unless you’re an MD/PhD. It can be done, but clinical research is generally the way to go. It’s easier to get papers done that way

Plus, it will be easier and more relevant to talk about during interviews, rather than talking about what specific gene deletion you’re looking at for osteosarc, or whatever.

 

[VincentAdultman]

clinical would be easier to get something out of for sure.

 

[Microbug]

I know you're being sarcastic but I'm curious and am going to ask you anyway- do you think I should try to do clinical research or bench research on an ortho related topic (think osteosarcoma)?

Work with someone who turned down HSS faculty... he has a lot of med students who does clinical research with him, sometimes he just lets them edit for grammar to get name on it...

I would agree that bench is hard to do as a med student and you are less likely to gets pubs which matters, i would say play it safe and go clinical research.

But the guy is a MD/PhD who did wet lab for his PhD then switched to only dry lab work.

 

[68PGunner]

No ortho for you regardless w/o at least 300 lbs bench score

 

[TypeADissection]

Step 1 + Bench Press = 500 to match Ortho

 

[68PGunner]

Step 1 + Bench Press = 500 to match Ortho

Due to the high interest in ortho nowadays, I think that number has risen to at least 550 or 600 at minimum.

 

[mcloaf]

Curious how you've managed to pick out your preferred residency program before you've even started med school...?

I don't think there's a secret to HSS that isn't applicable to other top programs in various specialties. Kill your boards, do well on clinical rotations, be successful at research (clinical vs. bench probably doesn't matter, but it's easier to pad your CV doing clinical stuff).

I'd encourage you to try to keep an open mind about specialties and eventually programs as you go through med school and residency applications.

 

[Driven_Docta]

Step 1 + Bench Press = 500 to match Ortho

How many reps are we talking here? Like 1 max rep of 250 or do I have to bench it like 12 times?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I know you're being sarcastic

Not really. You have magically picked the most competitive ortho program in the country. The best thing you can do to prepare is to start preparing now to face the fact that you won’t be matching HSS ortho.

How many reps are we talking here? Like 1 max rep of 250 or do I have to bench it like 12 times?

5 sets of 5 reps is a good place to start

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

HSS is the hardest Ortho residency to match into. Realistically, you need to be prepared that you won't get it. It's not much of a loss. I know HSS very well and the residents have to deal with a million fellows when it comes to doing cases. Personally I think it's a raw deal.


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[VincentAdultman]

HSS is the hardest Ortho residency to match into. Realistically, you need to be prepared that you won't get it. It's not much of a loss. I know HSS very well and the residents have to deal with a million fellows when it comes to doing cases. Personally I think it's a raw deal.


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A guy who graduated a couple years ahead of me in residency did fellowship at Harvard and swore he would never done residency there over our community program since your behind a fellow until you're a PGY4.

 

[Frogger27]

HSS is the hardest Ortho residency to match into. Realistically, you need to be prepared that you won't get it. It's not much of a loss. I know HSS very well and the residents have to deal with a million fellows when it comes to doing cases. Personally I think it's a raw deal.


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Is there similar prestige in doing a fellowship at HSS vs residency? Any easier to get into a fellowship program there as compared to residency?

 

[VincentAdultman]

Is there similar prestige in doing a fellowship at HSS vs residency? Any easier to get into a fellowship program there as compared to residency?

It's certainly easier to do a fellowship at a place like that than residency. In terms of prestige, a lot of it depends on the Fellowship.

 

[CTFellowMD]

I know you're being sarcastic but I'm curious and am going to ask you anyway- do you think I should try to do clinical research or bench research on an ortho related topic (think osteosarcoma)?

Doesn’t sound like sarcastic advice to me. That is what is necessary for you to land one of the most competitive residency spots in one of the most competitive specialties. (Minus the knee prosthesis... although I know multiple people who had several patents to their name prior to applying for residency)

 

[Dr. Scribe]

Well, this has been very sobering lol

I knew that this residency would be difficult to land, but I didn’t realize just how tough the competition was.

Thanks for letting me know what to expect and to temper my expectations!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I knew that this residency would be difficult to land, but I didn’t realize just how tough the competition was

When you are talking about one of the most competitive programs in one of the most competitive fields you are competing against some of the smartest and most accomplished people this country has to offer.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

When you are talking about one of the most competitive programs in one of the most competitive fields you are competing against some of the smartest and most accomplished people this country has to offer.

That’s true. I’m aiming high because I see no point in aiming for anything less, but I understand the likelihood of me actually getting resident at HSS for ortho is microscopic.

Humor me. What can I do to get started? How could someone get patents for ortho surgery before even getting accepted to that specialty?

 

[akwho]

That’s true. I’m aiming high because I see no point in aiming for anything less, but I understand the likelihood of me actually getting resident at HSS for ortho is microscopic.

Humor me. What can I do to get started? How could someone get patents for ortho surgery before even getting accepted to that specialty?

You're mildly annoying, haven't accomplished anything, and refer to yourself as Dr. Jay even though you're not a doctor. Have you considered nurse practitioner school?

 

[68PGunner]

That’s true. I’m aiming high because I see no point in aiming for anything less, but I understand the likelihood of me actually getting resident at HSS for ortho is microscopic.

Humor me. What can I do to get started? How could someone get patents for ortho surgery before even getting accepted to that specialty?

Hit the gym and get that bench press score to 550 by itself. You can match ortho even if you fail board then.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Hit the gym and get that bench press score to 550 by itself. You can match ortho even if you fail board then.

I dunno, I heard for HSS you need a 600 combined Step/Bench score. So even a 550 bench wouldn’t do it alone.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

You're mildly annoying, haven't accomplished anything, and refer to yourself as Dr. Jay even though you're not a doctor. Have you considered nurse practitioner school?

Uncalled for and I could care less what you think about me. You don't know what I have accomplished in my life, so save it. I must admit, the Medical Student forum is much less friendly than the Pre-Med forum.


Btw, you're very brave for attacking someone online.

 

[DNC127]

That’s true. I’m aiming high because I see no point in aiming for anything less, but I understand the likelihood of me actually getting resident at HSS for ortho is microscopic.

Humor me. What can I do to get started? How could someone get patents for ortho surgery before even getting accepted to that specialty?

Dr. Jay is going to be the new @Foot Fetish except for ortho instead of derm lol.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

Dr. Jay is going to be the new @Foot Fetish except for ortho instead of derm lol.

Idk what that means, but okay lol

 

[68PGunner]

Uncalled for and I could care less what you think about me. You don't know what I have accomplished in my life, so save it. I must admit, the Medical Student forum is much less friendly than the Pre-Med forum.

Btw, you're very brave for attacking someone online.

I'm going to be nice to you and actually tell you why people are being hostile to you right now. It's more of the fact that you're are still a premed who just have been accepted to a medical school, and then ask about not just matching to an ortho program but the top ortho program in the country while there are studs out there with top board scores, top clinical grades, and pubs who are struggling to match ortho.

Tone down on that God Complex. Let's wait until you match ortho first bc you piss on everyone's cereals. It's very disrespectful not just to current medical students but ortho residents and physicians who put in tons of work just to get to their current places. Some of these guys and girls even graduated from those lowly community programs that you look down upon.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

I'm going to be nice to you and actually tell you why people are being hostile to you right now. It's more of the fact that you're are still a premed who just have been accepted to a medical school, and then ask about not just matching to an ortho program but the top ortho program in the country while there are studs out there with top board scores, top clinical grades, and pubs who are struggling to match ortho.

Tone down on that God Complex. Let's wait until you match ortho first bc you piss on everyone's cereals. It's very disrespectful not just to current medical students but ortho residents and physicians who put in tons of work just to get to their current places. Some of these guys and girls even graduated from those lowly community programs that you look down upon.

I appreciate the explanation. I didn't mean to make it sound like I look down on community programs (in fact, I never even mentioned them). This thread was created to help me gain insight as to what I can do to try to make myself competitive for a residency spot at the top institution for Ortho. Even though there is an overwhelming probability that I won't match at HSS, if I prepare my application to apply to somewhere like HSS, there's a good chance I'll be able to match Ortho somewhere else (hopefully).

It's funny. I thought that the stereotype of Orthos was that they were jocks who are ultra competitive and make crass jokes, not people who are overly sensitive when someone asks a question with good intentions. I'm sorry if I've stepped on anyone's toes.

 

[DNC127]

I appreciate the explanation. I didn't mean to make it sound like I look down on community programs (in fact, I never even mentioned them). This thread was created to help me gain insight as to what I can do to try to make myself competitive for a residency spot at the top institution for Ortho. Even though there is an overwhelming probability that I won't match at HSS, if I prepare my application to apply to somewhere like HSS, there's a good chance I'll be able to match Ortho somewhere else (hopefully).

It's funny. I thought that the stereotype of Orthos was that they were jocks who are ultra competitive and make crass jokes, not people who are overly sensitive when someone asks a question with good intentions. I'm sorry if I've stepped on anyone's toes.

The ortho people I know DGAF what other people think. You had a decent thread until you asked how you could get a patent as if you can walk into walmart and get one. Apologizing for petty shiz is also not very ortho. So dont feel the need to.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

“Honor all your rotations, score 260 plus on Step One, make a few presentations, get a couple first author publications, make AOA (this one won't be hard because you've already honored all your rotations), rotate there (obv) maybe know a few people on faculty there, and if you're really motivated, design a revolutionary new knee prosthesis.

If you do that, I think you'd have a solid chance for HSS.”

This thread was created to help me gain insight as to what I can do to try to make myself competitive for a residency spot at the top institution for Ortho.

Someone gave you an answer. They really aren’t kidding.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

The ortho people I know DGAF what other people think. You had a decent thread until you asked how you could get a patent as if you can walk into walmart and get one. Apologizing for petty shiz is also not very ortho. So dont feel the need to.

It's hard to hear tone through text on the internet. When I asked, "How could someone get patents for ortho surgery before even getting accepted to that specialty?" I was in disbelief that someone could do that and asking a rhetorical question. In any case, its a moot point because I've gotten my answer and I'll start hitting the gym/Step 1 books ASAP.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

In any case, its a moot point because I've gotten my answer and I'll start hitting the gym/Step 1 books ASAP

Is the school you are going to a top school?

 

[Dr. Scribe]

Is the school you are going to a top school?

I will be attending the top school in my state (IMO) and I'm fully confident that I will be able to reach my full caliber as a physician by going there. Define "top" school for me and I'll give you a more specific answer, but I doubt that my answer will matter because no one mentioned 'medical school which you are applying from' when they described what I needed to be competitive.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

no one mentioned 'medical school which you are applying from' when they described what I needed to be competitive.

If you need “top” to be defined for you then you aren’t going to one. It matters. A lot. Go look at their current resident list, the large majority of them come from the top 20 with a good chunk of those coming from Harvard/Penn type places. Don’t let anyone kid you, name matters a lot in the ivory tower. This means that not only do you have to be the best ortho applicant from your school you will need to be better than all the other ortho applicants from all the other non-top 20 schools.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

If you need “top” to be defined for you then you aren’t going to one. It matters. A lot. Go look at their current resident list, the large majority of them come from the top 20 with a good chunk of those coming from Harvard/Penn type places. Don’t let anyone kid you, name matters a lot in the ivory tower. This means that not only do you have to be the best ortho applicant from your school you will need to be better than all the other ortho applicants from all the other non-top 20 schools.

I appreciate your candid responses and for bearing with me as I experienced this side of SDN for the first time. I will do my best to make my dreams come true, but understand that they are dreams which may never be realized. My efforts will not waver. I am not disheartened but motivated.

Thank you everyone for your input.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Is there similar prestige in doing a fellowship at HSS vs residency? Any easier to get into a fellowship program there as compared to residency?

Yes, and yes.


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[Dr. Scribe]

People aren’t reacting well to what I write because my original post is the equivalent of a middle schooler asking how to get into Harvard med and this site is filled with people who wanted to go to HMS but couldn’t. Everything I’ve written after my original post has been accurate but people are reading whatever I write through a certain lens that isn’t doing me any favors. I appreciate the fact that you are an Ortho attending (I’ve read your AMA) and obviously know a great deal about the field, but I’ve done my due diligence and am as informed as I can be considering I haven’t actually done rotations yet.

So, yes, you’re wrong.

 

[VincentAdultman]

People aren’t reacting well to what I write because my original post is the equivalent of a middle schooler asking how to get into Harvard med and this site is filled with people who wanted to go to HMS but couldn’t. Everything I’ve written after my original post has been accurate but people are reading whatever I write through a certain lens that isn’t doing me any favors. I appreciate the fact that you are an Ortho attending (I’ve read your AMA) and obviously know a great deal about the field, but I’ve done my due diligence and am as informed as I can be considering I haven’t actually done rotations yet.

So, yes, you’re wrong.

You have a very ambitious goal, and that's fine. Just know that that takes a lot of work (and probably some luck too). Do the best you can and keep an open mind. OTMD is dead on about how "useful" it is to go to a big name orthopedic program for residency. You may not want that a couple years from now. Hell you may not want ortho at all by then.

 

[lagbydesign]

As you can see, you have to be careful when asking questions around here. You have to ask them in such a way that you don't come across as arrogant or presumptuous. I understand, you're a dreamer. A lot of us are. I highly recommend reading and committing to memory @OrthoTraumaMD's AMA thread. I'm just kidding. But definitely read it though. You'll probably have it memorized come match time if you continue to gun for ortho.

EDIT: I see that you've already read it. Read it again. Read it in the morning when you wake up, and read it at night before you go to sleep. It's the ortho gunner's bible.

 

[Frogger27]

I will be attending the top school in my state (IMO) and I'm fully confident that I will be able to reach my full caliber as a physician by going there. Define "top" school for me and I'll give you a more specific answer, but I doubt that my answer will matter because no one mentioned 'medical school which you are applying from' when they described what I needed to be competitive.

Have you been accepted to medical school yet?? I was browsing through your post history because I was curious to see what you consider the “top” school in your state and all I see is an II from USF in the future you posted about after being a reapplicant from a couple years ago and a new DO app you sent out.

Anyway good luck (in Med school acceptance if this has not happened yet and future ortho gunning).

 

[Rekt]

People aren’t reacting well to what I write because my original post is the equivalent of a middle schooler asking how to get into Harvard med and this site is filled with people who wanted to go to HMS but couldn’t. Everything I’ve written after my original post has been accurate but people are reading whatever I write through a certain lens that isn’t doing me any favors. I appreciate the fact that you are an Ortho attending (I’ve read your AMA) and obviously know a great deal about the field, but I’ve done my due diligence and am as informed as I can be considering I haven’t actually done rotations yet.

So, yes, you’re wrong.

Just judging by your posts, regardless of whatever achievements you attain in medical school, I wouldn't want to be in a residency program with you based on your personality. You might want to work on that first.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

Just judging by your posts, regardless of whatever achievements you attain in medical school, I wouldn't want to be in a residency program with you based on your personality. You might want to work on that first.

You’re judging from a very small sample size of my personality. Honestly, I think we’d get along just fine.

 

[Dr. Scribe]

Have you been accepted to medical school yet?? I was browsing through your post history because I was curious to see what you consider the “top” school in your state and all I see is an II from USF in the future you posted about after being a reapplicant from a couple years ago and a new DO app you sent out.

Anyway good luck (in Med school acceptance if this has not happened yet and future ortho gunning).

Yes I have been accepted to medical school. Thank you for wishing me good luck! I wish you all the best in your endeavors as well.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

People aren’t reacting well to what I write because my original post is the equivalent of a middle schooler asking how to get into Harvard med and this site is filled with people who wanted to go to HMS but couldn’t. Everything I’ve written after my original post has been accurate but people are reading whatever I write through a certain lens that isn’t doing me any favors. I appreciate the fact that you are an Ortho attending (I’ve read your AMA) and obviously know a great deal about the field, but I’ve done my due diligence and am as informed as I can be considering I haven’t actually done rotations yet.

So, yes, you’re wrong.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think you're being fair to the other posters. Not everyone here is like "oh I didn't get into HMS/HSS/etc, so I'm gonna crap on someone who is dreaming of it." I had the same reaction to your initial post as they did and I come from an ivory tower place. If you've truly done your due diligence as you said, then I wish you the best of luck. But don't hang your hat on those academic places. Trust me when I say, it's not the end of the world. Match=orthopod.


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[Frogger27]

Yes, and yes.


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Thanks for the reply. I was asking because I know a DO who is doing a fellowship at HSS. Pretty incredible. Guessing he must be an awesome surgeon that had a lot of people support his candidacy

 

[Frogger27]

Yes I have been accepted to medical school. Thank you for wishing me good luck! I wish you all the best in your endeavors as well.

Congrats to you and welcome to the Medical Student Forum. It's a little different over here than the pre-med forum, but don't worry you'll catch on. We don't bite

 

[Dr. Scribe]

I get what you're saying, but I don't think you're being fair to the other posters. Not everyone here is like "oh I didn't get into HMS/HSS/etc, so I'm gonna crap on someone who is dreaming of it." I had the same reaction to your initial post as they did and I come from an ivory tower place. If you've truly done your due diligence as you said, then I wish you the best of luck. But don't hang your hat on those academic places. Trust me when I say, it's not the end of the world. Match=orthopod.


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My goal isn’t to become a top academic Ortho, it IS to become a great surgeon. One way to ensure that I do match into Ortho is to prepare my app to go into academic Ortho. Thank you for your advice regarding which residencies are better for practical experience vs research and thank you for doing your AMA. You’ve been very helpful to me and I’d like to thank you sincerely for that.

 

[DNC127]

Thanks for the reply. I was asking because I know a DO who is doing a fellowship at HSS. Pretty incredible. Guessing he must be an awesome surgeon that had a lot of people support his candidacy

I actually know of one DO residency that in the last couple years have placed residents into HSS, Hopkins, (and other programs similar in caliber) for fellowship pretty consistently.

 

[DoctorCrush]

I just wanna do ortho and drive a nice car like @OrthoTraumaMD