Advice for med students hoping to go into med onc?

[Treebeard]

Besides doing well on boards and publishing oncology papers, is there any wisdom our more seasoned SDN posters can impart?

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[gutonc]

Besides doing well on boards and publishing oncology papers, is there any wisdom our more seasoned SDN posters can impart?

Program name matters. It's not everything, but it's not nothing. And more than most of us - on both sides of the table - would care to admit.

 

[Treebeard]

Program name matters. It's not everything, but it's not nothing. And more than most of us - on both sides of the table - would care to admit.

So essentially you're saying it's important to go to the "best" IM residency possible?

 

[gutonc]

So essentially you're saying it's important to go to the "best" IM residency possible?

Yes. But I wish I wasn't.

 

[Square[]]

+1 to program name

 

[HoldTheCoffee]

For better or for worse, program name matters for most of the other competitive subspecialties as well such as GI, cards, pulm/cc. Much easier to get interviewed at "top" places coming from a name-brand program. Without it you'll need something else significant on your resume, such as a chief year or publications to beef up the CV.

 

[bobsmith]

Another factor that is somewhat related to going to a name-brand program / being successful in research is having a mentor / advisor who is willing to go to bat for you. Also helps if that person is well-known/well-regarded.

I often got asked in my interviews if I knew Dr. [well-regarded big-wig in the department I did research in]. I had worked with him and he liked me, but in the end got a LoR from a more junior attending that I worked a lot more closely with (both clinically and in research).

In retrospect, after seeing the awe and admiration that some of my interviewers had for Dr. [well-regarded big-wig], I do wonder if having Dr. [well-regarded big-wig]'s name on the LoR would have done anything more for my app.

 

[CatFactorial]

Another factor that is somewhat related to going to a name-brand program / being successful in research is having a mentor / advisor who is willing to go to bat for you. Also helps if that person is well-known/well-regarded.

I often got asked in my interviews if I knew Dr. [well-regarded big-wig in the department I did research in]. I had worked with him and he liked me, but in the end got a LoR from a more junior attending that I worked a lot more closely with (both clinically and in research).

In retrospect, after seeing the awe and admiration that some of my interviewers had for Dr. [well-regarded big-wig], I do wonder if having Dr. [well-regarded big-wig]'s name on the LoR would have done anything more for my app.

+1

Having a big wig sign your letter of reference is a yuuuuuuuuuuge feather in one’s cap. Bigger the wig bigger the feather
#thatswhatshesaid

 

[HoldTheCoffee]

Yeah, the "big wig" letter (and program name stuff) are factors that are helpful to any fellowship application. It just turns out that big wigs tend to be enriched at the name brand places so it can be hard to discern how much each factor helps individually. I'd also say that the title of the letter writer matters - a junior attending letter carries a lot less weight versus someone who can sign "XYZ Professor of Oncology" at the bottom. Even if the programs don't know all your writers, they'll pay more attention if it's from a professor versus an instructor.

 

[Uncle Albert]

Do program name and big name letter writers matter as much if applying to programs outside of the top tier? Several of my top choices currently are mid tier IM university programs and I was under the impression that I can cruise (do my work best I can, don’t rub anyone the wrong way, get name on some paper) and end up at a mid tier fellowship program. Is this true?


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[CatFactorial]

Yeah, the "big wig" letter (and program name stuff) are factors that are helpful to any fellowship application. It just turns out that big wigs tend to be enriched at the name brand places so it can be hard to discern how much each factor helps individually. I'd also say that the title of the letter writer matters - a junior attending letter carries a lot less weight versus someone who can sign "XYZ Professor of Oncology" at the bottom. Even if the programs don't know all your writers, they'll pay more attention if it's from a professor versus an instructor.

While they tend to cluster in the ivy towers there is often at least one at more middle of the road places, or at least well-regarded protégés of said wigs who would still be of immense use if they were to write a letter on one’s behalf. Indiana’s GU onc program, Nebraska’s lymphoma program, Arkansas MM (even though residents don’t really work there) are examples that come to mind. They are not Hopkins and it’s ilk, so the wig factor could potentially be less confounded.

 

[CatFactorial]

Do program name and big name letter writers matter as much if applying to programs outside of the top tier? Several of my top choices currently are mid tier IM university programs and I was under the impression that I can cruise (do my work best I can, don’t rub anyone the wrong way, get name on some paper) and end up at a mid tier fellowship program. Is this true?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

How can you be certain at this point that those will remain your top choices come fellowship application time?

 

[Uncle Albert]

How can you be certain at this point that those will remain your top choices come fellowship application time?

Because I have no intention of going into academic medicine, research, or hospital administration. My understanding is that going to a top tier fellowship will open the doors above. But in terms of going straight to private practice, I heard that training at a fellowship program in the area you want to work is more important than going to a higher ranked program 1000 miles away and then trying to get a job back in your desired area.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[CatFactorial]

Because I have no intention of going into academic medicine, research, or hospital administration. My understanding is that going to a top tier fellowship will open the doors above. But in terms of going straight to private practice, I heard that training at a fellowship program in the area you want to work is more important than going to a higher ranked program 1000 miles away and then trying to get a job back in your desired area.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

You are correct.

 

[DrTacosMD]

How do you find out who are big wigs in heme onc?

 

[PD1]

How do you find out who are big wigs in heme onc?

Ask a 2nd or 3rd year fellow at your institution.

 

[caesars palace]

Program name matters. It's not everything, but it's not nothing. And more than most of us - on both sides of the table - would care to admit.

How much does med school name matter? Going to a higher ranked program like Tufts or UMiami vs. an unraked program like Albany? As an entering med-student trying to pick a school, the decision is pretty tough.

 

[gutonc]

How much does med school name matter? Going to a higher ranked program like Tufts or UMiami vs. an unraked program like Albany? As an entering med-student trying to pick a school, the decision is pretty tough.

Only insofar as it influences your residency chances. But your med school and Step performance will have a much bigger impact on your chances for a particular residency program than the difference between those 3 med schools will have.

 

[caesars palace]

Only insofar as it influences your residency chances. But your med school and Step performance will have a much bigger impact on your chances for a particular residency program than the difference between those 3 med schools will have.

I was wondering primarily because I'm definitely currently interested in academic medicine and I heard many of the big name academic residency programs do care about name/prestige.

Do you think that academic programs would care much for residency between a place like Tufts or Miami ranked as a 40-50 school vs. an unranked program like Albany? It's not exactly Harvard vs. Caribbean so I was wondering all things like step being equal if it would make a difference for academic IM residences or if I should disregard. Thank you for the information!