Advice for MS3 interested in psychiatry

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wannabMD121

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I'm an MS3 and recently became interested in psychiatry, but am concerned about my chances of matching. I scored a 205 on Step 1. I have no publications except for an institutional poster on a topic related to psychiatry. I simply *passed* my psychiatry rotation, *passed* medicine rotation, and have peds/ob and surgery rotations next. I've got some good community service and leadership stuff, but that's about it. I will take step 2 before applying.

Please advise. Should I be concerned about my chances of matching at the following programs: Georgetown, UMd, UVa, or EVMS?

The other specialty I'm considering is peds... but with my step 1 score, I'm worried that I'll have an ever harder time matching where I want to go (at the programs listed above). I do have a genuine interest in psychiatry for personal reasons (lived through mental health issues with a family member), have done some research in addiction psychiatry, and worked in a community mental health agency before med school.

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MS4 in the match process (coming up). Cannot speak to the exact specifics of the programs you list here. What I can tell you is that my peers have had a variety of step scores (200s to 250s), research experiences (none, few, many, etc.). I haven't heard of STEP scores being brought up in the interview and I know from personal experience that research is a "may" and not a "must". The caveat with board scores is that a failure is different (a red flag), and it is something you would need to address. Certainly having something to talk about in the interview will help you.

I do think that with your scores, I would cast a little wider net of applications (30-40? Please someone correct me if this seems unreasonable). I would also make sure to "right any wrongs" in the case of your Psychiatry clerkship, and figure out the successful path to an H at a program you're interested in attending (no shelf, wahoo!). Perhaps get into contact with someone who has taken said sub-I previously, scored well, and follow their advice.

To serve as a reference point: I went into the season with a 238 Step 1, an H in Medicine and Psychiatry, and an H in a Sub-internship. My lack of research has not come up in a single interview. I applied throughout the Midwest to 24 programs, recieved invites to 15, and cancelled 5 with passing CK (240s)/CS scores in-hand. I will report on how match day and everything shakes out. I wish you well in your path, certainly there is a future in Psychiatry for you!
 
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OP, you can become a psychiatrist, but you will need to apply to a LOT of programs and see what sticks. You seem to be picking geography first and then seeing what programs are around there. I strongly suggest you do it the other way- apply to a ton of programs and then rank them based on geography.

My stats are similar to yours. Lack of research, never honored anything, never did an away, only one LOR from a psychiatrist, at least I passed board exams. You can search my name in the interviews thread. I have been offered about 20 interviews all across the country. These aren't the Bostons or the San Angeles programs like the superstars here are getting. A few of them aren't even at universities. But it is a nice cross section of the whole country and I have 6 absolutely wonderful programs currently tied for first place on my rank list.

If you want to be a psychiatrist, take an elective early 4th year and do a Sub-I in psych. Get a good letter from either of those. And follow the other good advice in this thread.
 
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If you want to be a psychiatrist, take an elective early 4th year and do a Sub-I in psych. Get a good letter from either of those. And follow the other good advice in this thread.

I recommend crushing STEP 2 CK and have CS completed (STEP 2 feels much more reasonable to study for). Showing improvement on the STEPS definitely will matter more when STEP 1 is low.
 
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OP, you can become a psychiatrist, but you will need to apply to a LOT of programs and see what sticks. You seem to be picking geography first and then seeing what programs are around there. I strongly suggest you do it the other way- apply to a ton of programs and then rank them based on geography.

My stats are similar to yours. Lack of research, never honored anything, never did an away, only one LOR from a psychiatrist, at least I passed board exams. You can search my name in the interviews thread. I have been offered about 20 interviews all across the country. These aren't the Bostons or the San Angeles programs like the superstars here are getting. A few of them aren't even at universities. But it is a nice cross section of the whole country and I have 6 absolutely wonderful programs currently tied for first place on my rank list.

If you want to be a psychiatrist, take an elective early 4th year and do a Sub-I in psych. Get a good letter from either of those. And follow the other good advice in this thread.

You have 20 interviews with a <210 step 1.... Are you attending a top 10 US MD school? How many programs did you apply to?
 
You have 20 interviews with a <210 step 1.... Are you attending a top 10 US MD school? How many programs did you apply to?
My school is not ranked. I applied to 80 psych programs. I am not geographically limited (in fact I want to leave Louisiana), so I applied to a lot of states.
 
My school is not ranked. I applied to 80 psych programs. I am not geographically limited (in fact I want to leave Louisiana), so I applied to a lot of states.
Congrats! I thought anything <210 from an unranked school was DOA for psych...
 
I wish you the best of luck OP! I have faith that we'll all find exactly where we're meant to be. :)
While on topic...
What is the general consensus for DO students in the ACGME match in terms of competitiveness? Is a Sub-I recommended?
 
I wish you the best of luck OP! I have faith that we'll all find exactly where we're meant to be. :)
While on topic...
What is the general consensus for DO students in the ACGME match in terms of competitiveness? Is a Sub-I recommended?

Are you asking if a psych subI is recommended for students interested in psych? If so, absolutely, at least 2 early M4 year rotations to get good letters and develop a better understanding for either the breadth or depth of the field.
 
Are you asking if a psych subI is recommended for students interested in psych? If so, absolutely, at least 2 early M4 year rotations to get good letters and develop a better understanding for either the breadth or depth of the field.

I second this! However, if you are able to spend at least a month on a service in the sub-intership role, one may be sufficient. In my school, doing more than this was generally difficult within the timeframe of late MS3/early MS4.
 
Are you asking if a psych subI is recommended for students interested in psych? If so, absolutely, at least 2 early M4 year rotations to get good letters and develop a better understanding for either the breadth or depth of the field.
I second this! However, if you are able to spend at least a month on a service in the sub-intership role, one may be sufficient. In my school, doing more than this was generally difficult within the timeframe of late MS3/early MS4.

I was absolutely planning at the very least one and am definitely in the boat of potentially struggling to fit in two due to scheduling. For psych, have you found a competitive DO applicant to be in the same ballpark as a competitive MD applicant during interview season? I'm interested in my actual chances at the larger-name residencies in the northeast.
 
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I second this! However, if you are able to spend at least a month on a service in the sub-intership role, one may be sufficient. In my school, doing more than this was generally difficult within the timeframe of late MS3/early MS4.

Maybe our schools had different structure but July/Aug/Sept of M4 year was basically always people doing rotations in their projected field of practice.
 
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I was absolutely planning at the very least one and am definitely in the boat of potentially struggling to fit in two due to scheduling. For psych, have you found a competitive DO applicant to be in the same ballpark as a competitive MD applicant during interview season? I'm interested in my actual chances at the larger-name residencies in the northeast.

Answering that question is difficult as a med student. As an applicant I've seen many DO students on the interview trail. However, I would hesitate to comment on whether or not they were "in the same ballpark". My board scores were competitive, but I didn't have a background in research. Perhaps a DO with similar scores and extensive research would be more favored. By the time you've been invited to interview, I think all applicants are (for the most part) on a level playing field. At that point it becomes an opportunity for the program to see how they interact with you and they attempt to assess how well you fit in. Perhaps an awesome PD or two that frequent this forum could speak to this directly.
 
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Answering that question is difficult as a med student. As an applicant I've seen many DO students on the interview trail. However, I would hesitate to comment on whether or not they were "in the same ballpark". My board scores were competitive, but I didn't have a background in research. Perhaps a DO with similar scores and extensive research would be more favored. By the time you've been invited to interview, I think all applicants are (for the most part) on a level playing field. At that point it becomes an opportunity for the program to see how they interact with you and they attempt to assess how well you fit in. Perhaps an awesome PD or two that frequent this forum could speak to this directly.
The "larger name residencies in the northeast", in my limited, subjective experience are already looking for more academically-oriented applicants--and in general, DO schools are not producing a lot of those. It's rare to find a DO that's done "extensive research"--I find their strengths to lie in more clinical directions, and they may be more valued by programs with stronger patient care emphases.
 
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I actually know for a fact that some "larger name residencies in the Northeast" (coughtopNYCprogramscough) won't even consider DO applicants. Don't shoot the messenger - I'm not saying it's fair, just the way it is. That said, there've been DO residents at Harvard-affiliated programs. So YMMV. But just to reiterate what "competitive" means for top programs: solid Step scores, grades and LORs are expected and you need to stand out in other ways.
 
The "larger name residencies in the northeast", in my limited, subjective experience are already looking for more academically-oriented applicants--and in general, DO schools are not producing a lot of those. It's rare to find a DO that's done "extensive research"--I find their strengths to lie in more clinical directions, and they may be more valued by programs with stronger patient care emphases.

^---- What @OldPsychDoc said. I'm just honored to have been quoted by him.
 
Congrats! I thought anything <210 from an unranked school was DOA for psych...
The only thing that will prevent you from matching is you. Your posts are annoyingly anxious, excessively neurotic and projects a lack of belief in yourself. If you don't believe you belong, how will will you ever convince anyone else that you do? I see under-confidence* trip up applicants and they condemn themselves to the scrapheap. It doesn't matter if you don't believe in yourself, but don't let anyone else see that. You need to project a belief in your own self-worth, a belief in yourself, and a belief that you have the potential to be an excellent psychiatrist. That means being teachable, intellectually curious, having a passion for working with the mentally ill, soliciting and accepting feedback non-defensively, showing up, working hard, being able to work with others, being dependable, and having a drive to continually improve and learn to give your patients the best possible care. None of that has anything to do with your board scores, clerkship grades, or where you went to med school.

BTW, I failed exams in my preclinical year of medschool. I was a terrible student. I wasn't invited back after my first year (I made my case, and they relented). I failed my first clerkship. I scored <210 on Step 1. I'm an IMG. But I interviewed only at top 20 residency programs, matched at a program that initially did not give me an interview (I made my case, and they relented), was offered the fellowship of my choice on the spot, and won numerous awards during residency and fellowship. I've worked really hard, and work harder still to provide my patients with the best possible care and improve the training of psychiatrists in general. Sometimes I think I'm a fraud and imagine it will all unravel. It probably won't.

Rather than be fatalistic; rather than whinging; accept what you can't change, and put your all into improving other aspects of your application; project the right attitude; and shape your goals around doing everything you can in the service of your future patients.

*over-confidence is just as dangerous.
 
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I don't know how this is even possible but I love splik even more now :)
 
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Very inspirational Splik.

If we could only invent some sort of Midi-chlorian blood test to see how much Splik applicants have in them. Then we could ignore all kinds of failures and repeats.
;)
 
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Hello I have a question. I am an MS4 from a Caribbean medical school currently completing my 4th year electives. Just wondering what programs (top tier vs mid tier) and how many programs I should be applying to with my stats. Step1/2ck (240/238) respectively. I am applying this September to match in 2018. Any advice would be much appreciated?
 
New
Hello I have a question. I am an MS4 from a Caribbean medical school currently completing my 4th year electives. Just wondering what programs (top tier vs mid tier) and how many programs I should be applying to with my stats. Step1/2ck (240/238) respectively. I am applying this September to match in 2018. Any advice would be much appreciated?

We could benefit from a little more information. Did you perform clerkship duties in the U.S.? Do you have a tie to US Psychiatrists who will write you nice LOR's? In general, you should apply broadly (high/mid/low tier), and you will not have the luxury of applying to only a few programs. Your step scores are good, but being a Caribbean IMG will prove to be a setback as you compete with AMG MDs/DOs, and non US IMGs in an increasingly competitive environment. Are there other experiences that set you apart?
 
We could benefit from a little more information. Did you perform clerkship duties in the U.S.? Do you have a tie to US Psychiatrists who will write you nice LOR's? In general, you should apply broadly (high/mid/low tier), and you will not have the luxury of applying to only a few programs. Your step scores are good, but being a Caribbean IMG will prove to be a setback as you compete with AMG MDs/DOs, and non US IMGs in an increasingly competitive environment. Are there other experiences that set you apart?


Thanks for the response. All my clerkships are being completed in the US. And I do have a couple of Psychiatrists willing to write me strong letters. One of them was actually a chief resident at a program I am very interested in (Jackson memorial/UM) in miami. So fingers crossed. Beyond that i have no publications or presentations. I suppose the only thing that sets me apart as a non US IMG would be my english proficiency. I always get remarks about that, how well spoken I am. Other not so unique experiences include volunteering at a homeless shelter. And I'm a huge fitness enthusiast, former athlete and personal trainer. I understand that the landscape is drfinitely more competitive but I was pretty hopeful given the fact that I have a solid gpa 3.8 and fairly decent scores no? I intend to apply to 55 programs? Any help in formulating this list would be helpful....
 
Thanks for the response. All my clerkships are being completed in the US. And I do have a couple of Psychiatrists willing to write me strong letters. One of them was actually a chief resident at a program I am very interested in (Jackson memorial/UM) in miami. So fingers crossed. Beyond that i have no publications or presentations. I suppose the only thing that sets me apart as a non US IMG would be my english proficiency. I always get remarks about that, how well spoken I am. Other not so unique experiences include volunteering at a homeless shelter. And I'm a huge fitness enthusiast, former athlete and personal trainer. I understand that the landscape is drfinitely more competitive but I was pretty hopeful given the fact that I have a solid gpa 3.8 and fairly decent scores no? I intend to apply to 55 programs? Any help in formulating this list would be helpful....

I think there are some very well informed members of SDN who can use what you've given us and let you know exactly what is realistic. I wish that was me, but I will have to defer to greater authorities. I wish you the absolute best with the process!

Unfortunately, I know that even the best Caribbean candidates face a steep uphill battle. I hope someone will chime in here to help you get the perspective you are asking for. It helps that psychiatry is in need of great doctors!!
 
Thanks for the response. All my clerkships are being completed in the US. And I do have a couple of Psychiatrists willing to write me strong letters. One of them was actually a chief resident at a program I am very interested in (Jackson memorial/UM) in miami. So fingers crossed. Beyond that i have no publications or presentations. I suppose the only thing that sets me apart as a non US IMG would be my english proficiency. I always get remarks about that, how well spoken I am. Other not so unique experiences include volunteering at a homeless shelter. And I'm a huge fitness enthusiast, former athlete and personal trainer. I understand that the landscape is drfinitely more competitive but I was pretty hopeful given the fact that I have a solid gpa 3.8 and fairly decent scores no? I intend to apply to 55 programs? Any help in formulating this list would be helpful....

Well it sounds like you think you are smashing it (asking about only top tier vs mid tier). The very best programs essentially never take Caribbean students, so if you are applying to top 10-20 programs I wouldn't even count them as an application on your list. Many places will have automatic filters such that your application won't even see human eyes. That said, you can almost certainly match if you apply broadly, including community programs, and come across as having a real interest in mental health, are hard working, a team player, and humble.

See other threads for extremely good programs that are lesser known by name brand. There are many in the midwest (or basically anything not East/West Coast).
 
Great information-thank you for the posts.
 
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MS4 in the match process (coming up). Cannot speak to the exact specifics of the programs you list here. What I can tell you is that my peers have had a variety of step scores (200s to 250s), research experiences (none, few, many, etc.). I haven't heard of STEP scores being brought up in the interview and I know from personal experience that research is a "may" and not a "must". The caveat with board scores is that a failure is different (a red flag), and it is something you would need to address. Certainly having something to talk about in the interview will help you.

I do think that with your scores, I would cast a little wider net of applications (30-40? Please someone correct me if this seems unreasonable). I would also make sure to "right any wrongs" in the case of your Psychiatry clerkship, and figure out the successful path to an H at a program you're interested in attending (no shelf, wahoo!). Perhaps get into contact with someone who has taken said sub-I previously, scored well, and follow their advice.

To serve as a reference point: I went into the season with a 238 Step 1, an H in Medicine and Psychiatry, and an H in a Sub-internship. My lack of research has not come up in a single interview. I applied throughout the Midwest to 24 programs, recieved invites to 15, and cancelled 5 with passing CK (240s)/CS scores in-hand. I will report on how match day and everything shakes out. I wish you well in your path, certainly there is a future in Psychiatry for you!


I see you applied midwest...I'm an M3 DO student hoping to stay on the west coast. Any idea how I might fare out here?

Low 240s step/660 COMLEX. Will see how many H I get - still on first rotation...one research project with possible publication pending.
 
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