Advice from a 1st year medical student..

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If he started a thread entitled "I'm just starting first year and probably don't know what I'm talking about but here's what is seeming to work for me," I'd have less of a problem with it and tone down the response. He'd still be wrong, but he's not holding it out as anything other than a novice guess. But once you start an "Advice" thread, and it's bad advice I think you invite the heavy handed responses and can't be thin skinned about it.
Exactly. You can't use the title of "Advice from a 1st year medical student" and then with such pathos and gravitas state your advice and then end with " I haven't gotten to their level of experience yet, but as of right now, you might thank me by having these classes under your belt before medical school starts!" and then not expect ANY pushback at all esp. when your advice is so separated from reality as to advise someone to take a ridiculous number of credit hours more (and pay for) for a supposed, nonexistent gain.

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Dude 7 classes is nearly a year of undergrad (at least where I went you generally took 4 classes/semester). You didn't really think that giving advice on classes worth taking before med school was going to go uncommented on in a forum full of other med students and residents?

I had a similar experience in that being a biochem major made the first few courses of med school easier, but I would never tell other people to waste their time taking classes they wouldn't have otherwise taken just so that they can study less the first couple of months of med school. Whatever advantage you feel you have now will quickly fade as you progress in school.
First couple of months? More like weeks. What's worse is that some premed schmucks liked his advice as if it's a good track to follow (they're shmucks bc they liked faulty poor advice, not bc they were schmucks previously).
 
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I would have said maybe one week. And that's IF you remembered everything you had learned. Certainly by the second test in first year everyone was on pretty much the same level and putting in lots of hours.
I was assuming since it was more than one course - Anatomy, Embryology, Genetics, Epidemiology, Physiology, Nutrition, Immunology (and Biochem which is "useful but not 'super' beneficial"). it would be be a max of 2 weeks. Definitely not longer than the first test in M1 and even that is pushing it. I'm just amazed that he thinks his undergrad course would be so on par with med school courses, not realizing they have to "dumb down" the content so that all normal undergrads have a chance of doing well in the course, not just those aiming for medical school.
 
First couple of months? More like weeks. What's worse is that some premed schmucks liked his advice as if it's a good track to follow (they're shmucks bc they liked faulty poor advice, not bc they were schmucks previously).

Eh our genetics and biochem was stretched out for a while.
 
Eh our genetics and biochem was stretched out for a while.
Did you think your undergrad genetics and Biochem was as helpful as you thought it was for the med school version?
 
Eh our genetics and biochem was stretched out for a while.

My genetics stuff was all lumped into the bio prerequisite, which was more than necessary for the Mcat but pretty much proven to be misinformation in med school. Biochem was a prerequisite at a lot of med schools so everyone took it and there was no competitive advantage to having taken it. But it was pretty much a distant memory by med school anyhow. I would not recommend either.
 
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Did you think your undergrad genetics and Biochem was as helpful as you thought it was for the med school version?

Did it make my life easier? Sure. Would I recommend others go out of their way to take these classes? No. My undergrad biochem was pretty rigorous and medically focused, but it's not like I wouldn't have been fine without it too.
 
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What worries me the most is not having any lab experience beyond basic prerequisites (general bio, chem, etc.). When I look at med school curricula it usually doesn't say whether there is a lab component (beyond anatomy lab, of course). How much time do you spend in lab in med school? I'm a little worried about not knowing how to do PCR, culture bacteria, etc.
 
What worries me the most is not having any lab experience beyond basic prerequisites (general bio, chem, etc.). When I look at med school curricula it usually doesn't say whether there is a lab component (beyond anatomy lab, of course). How much time do you spend in lab in med school? I'm a little worried about not knowing how to do PCR, culture bacteria, etc.
Lab time in first year is just gross and histo, so no need to know techniques. Knowing how to do PCR, cultures, etc. would be kind of beneficial if you wanted to get involved with research.
 
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1. I didn't personally attack you, other than perhaps indirectly suggest you were no Einstein.
2. You entitled this thread as "advice", not your own personal journey/experience, so the clear assumption is that you are offering something that will work for the reader.
3. I stand by assertion that these classes don't help as much as you are suggestion, and maybe not at all.
4. By virtue of telling people to waste college credits taking things they will retake in med school you are absolutely telling them to take a curriculum that limits exposure to new ideas, sorry. You only get to be in college once, you shouldn't squander it trying to pre-learn med school.

Taking my suggested courses will not provide "new ideas"? Taking my suggested courses is a "waste"? Lol okay...I am done with this. I just want to end with MY advice (which is subjective - doesn't mean it will work for everybody) is that taking those courses can help you get settled into your first year of medical school with less stress and better results (which is my experience so far, and plenty others are feeling the same way at my school). CAN is a key word here. Not everyone's experience will be like yours, and I am certainly not saying everyone's will be like mine...

GomerPyle fits you well.

And I am assuming that's not a personal attack either? Lol! Btw,I am an MS1..not a premed or undergrad as you're claiming. Again, it would suit you well to actually read my posts and know who I am, rather than speaking out of your ***, which I really hope you aren't doing in your residency...
 
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Here's why I gave the advice: the students who took embryology in undergrad are having a far better time understanding the material in medical school than students who are new to it. The students who also took anatomy before medical school are having a significantly easier time in lab and understanding material in lecture. This is my experience. Can students learn the material if they haven't been exposed to it before? Of course! It's just more time consuming and difficult, and it's convenient to me because I also have a job outside of school and volunteer a lot so it's less stress on me. The point of my post is that if you want to make life easier in the first few months of med school (I am unsure how it will be later on), and you can also get your requirements and useful credits in undergrad by taking my suggested courses, than take them. I never said go completely out of your way and pay all this extra money - if it fits, then my advice is do it, and I stand by my advice, as of right now.
 
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Here's why I gave the advice: the students at my school who took embryology in undergrad are having a far better time understanding the material than students who are new to it. The students who also took anatomy before medical school are having a significantly easier time in lab and in lecture. This is my experience. Can students learn the material if they haven't been exposed to it before? Of course! It's just more time consuming and difficult, and it's convenient to me because I also have a job outside of school and volunteer a lot. The point of my post is that if you want to make life easier in the first few months of med school (I am unsure how it will be later on), and you can also get your requirements and useful credits in undergrad by taking my suggested courses, than take them. I never said go completely out of your way and pay all this extra money - if it fits, then do it.

1. What you are missing the point on is that you, having taken these courses, seem to think you are in a position to judge whether others who didn't are having trouble understanding things. Truth of the matter is that opinion has to come from someone in your class who DIDNT take those classes or it just sounds like someone trying to pat themselves on the back. A lot of non-science people have weighed in on a lot of threads and indicated that in fact they never felt disadvantaged.
2. It's still September. A bit early to claim mastery of first year med school, don't you think? Anyway the "advice" title on this thread is presumptuous.
3. When you use the user name gomer Pyle and put a picture of Einstein as your avatar you are inviting comments like gomer Pyle is fitting or that you are no Einstein. That's not even a personal attack, you chose the set up -- we are just completing your punch lines. I would suggest that if you don't have a heck of a lot thicker skin than this you are going to have a much harder time once you reach the clinical years.
 
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I do have my own opinions, but I have also stated numerous times (and contrary to what you're saying) that I have also learned from other people in my class who have never taken anatomy, or never taken embryology, or never taken stats. I see them every day, and talk to them every day. I am also relaying their experiences. True, it's September, but I still believe in coming in somewhat prepared. Medical school hasn't been difficult, and just as you said, I am far from Einstein, so I think it's because of my past exposure to similar topics.
 
Lab time in first year is just gross and histo, so no need to know techniques. Knowing how to do PCR, cultures, etc. would be kind of beneficial if you wanted to get involved with research.

Thanks, that's really good to know. What about second year?
 
@xffan642 and @WillburCobb

Thanks guys, you actually saved me from taking some classes just because they have a lab component.
 
And I am assuming that's not a personal attack either? Lol! Btw,I am an MS1..not a premed or undergrad as you're claiming. Again, it would suit you well to actually read my posts and know who I am, rather than speaking out of your ***, which I really hope you aren't doing in your residency...
Don't worry, I assumed you were an MS-1. Like your thread title -- 1st year medical student says.
 
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lol as an M3 disagree on all of those recommendations. You'll learn the material in medical school, and (as someone who actually took most of these in undergrad for my major) the knowledge base is helpful for first year, but absolutely not necessary. It will make no difference once you start M2 and then clinical years.

The people who fail in medical school are the people who are LAZY, NOT the people who don't have strong premedical science backgrounds. If you work hard and you met the prereqs and had the MCAT to get into medical schoo, you can succeed if you put in the effort.

As an M3 I'd recommend people take the prereqs in college and spend the rest of time taking courses they actually enjoy, that might actually broaden their knowledge, instead of more science classes simply because they think it might give them an advantage.
Not true in many cases....
 
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The only class in OP's list I agree that might be helpful is Epidemiology or biostats. Biostats was covered in 8 hours at my school. I remember there were a couple of students who had MPH from top MPH programs and they said the biostats that my school covered in 8 hours was covered in their MPH programs in almost 2 whole semesters.
 
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The only class in OP's list I agree that might be helpful is Epidemiology or biostats. Biostats was covered in 8 hours at my school. I remember there were a couple of students who had MPH from top MPH programs and they said the biostats that my school covered in 8 hours was covered in their MPH programs in almost 2 whole semesters.

Also just that most med schools do a piss poor job teaching biostats and it is so important for your ability to critically read and understand scientific literature
 
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Also just that most med schools do a piss poor job teaching biostats and it is so important for your ability to critically read and understand scientific literature
I agree. Go figure that one of the most important courses is taught the most ****ily at medical schools. This class is so important to understand in medical school bc, like you said, it helps you evaluate and understand the literature properly, which you'll be doing for the rest of your career in your specific specialty, when there won't be a textbook to tell you everything you need to know and what to do next.

I guess that's why the USMLE is now incorporating questions that test your ability to evaluate pharmaceutical advertisements and research abstracts and apply that knowledge: http://www.usmle.org/cru/updates/2011-06.html

I guess High Yield Biostats will be flying off the shelves.
 
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I agree. Go figure that one of the most important courses is taught the most ****ily at medical schools. This class is so important to understand in medical school bc, like you said, it helps you evaluate and understand the literature properly, which you'll be doing for the rest of your career in your specific specialty, when there won't be a textbook to tell you everything you need to know and what to do next.

I guess that's why the USMLE is now incorporating questions that test your ability to evaluate pharmaceutical advertisements and research abstracts and apply that knowledge: http://www.usmle.org/cru/updates/2011-06.html

I guess High Yield Biostats will be flying off the shelves.
The prof who teaches at my school said they will incorporate more biostats questions in step1... He is one of the gurus who writes biostats questions for the NBME.
 
The prof who teaches at my school said they will incorporate more biostats questions in step1... He is one of the gurus who writes biostats questions for the NBME.
Yes, it's a relatively recent change that the NBME has implemented. It's also why High-Yield Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Public Health recently came out in the 4th edition, when the 3rd edition, only High Yield Biostatistics back then, was from 2004. Another win for Lippincott's Williams and Wilkins (LWW)!
 
The difficulties in the beginning of medical stem less from the material itself and more from the difficulty in learning how to learn. It doesn't matter how much you pre-study, since every student comes in without the basic skill of how to actually learn.
 
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Also just that most med schools do a piss poor job teaching biostats and it is so important for your ability to critically read and understand scientific literature

I hate to say this but some of the worst studies I have ever read were from physicians who did not know their epidemiology or biostats.
 
So how does one prepare well for learning biostats if they didn't take any form of it during undergrad? Assuming that it's taught poorly at most med schools like y'all have said?
 
In my experience, additional basic science training did help in some of the preclinical part of medical school, depending on the subject. Undergrad material may, sometimes, in some ways, go into greater depth than medical school, but perhaps just in a different direction. For example, in an undergrad level immunology class we went into a lot of molecular level detail that wasn't covered in medical school. It can also give you terrible study habits compared to your peers if you coast along for certain parts. That was certainly my experience. However, there is a bit of insanity here of too much preparation, because the point is to go to medical school to learn medicine. That's the time you've allocated in your life to learn medicine, and that's when tons of resources are being allocated to you to help you learn. If you decide you want to go into a particular depth area later, you can do that. That's why people do things like fellowships and go to seminars and grand rounds and special tutorials at conferences and read on their own.

In theory you could go to medical school in another country and then come back and enroll in medical school in the US. Of course you'd know a lot of the stuff in advance, but you'd have wasted several years of your life so you can come back and review. Also, you wouldn't be impressing anybody with your knowledge once they knew your background; in fact, they might expect you to know even more. The same is true of taking time off to study a topic in general. If you take off 2 years and study immunology, you'll know the subject, and maybe the immunologists will be more willing to give you research projects to do, but unless immunology is your life's passion, it doesn't make much sense.

There are effectively infinite things to learn and you have a finite life.

It's more important to excel at something before medical school than it is to try to half way learn medicine in advance.

The one biology course that isn't a basic requirement which is very helpful is probably physiology. It will help a bit to put things together in your basic science curriculum (physics, chem, basic bio, o-chem) into the systems biology of a human being.

Overall though, I strongly support the idea of doing statistics or quantitative work in general. For some people, doing well in undergrad to get good grades to get into medical school is helpful. However, if you have some place in your course schedule, try to learn some of the things which are in demand which many people in medicine don't know well. That means you will have external skills to bring the table.

Computer science, economics, business, statistics, etc. are all things that are part of medicine and often aren't learned well by people before they go down the path of medicine.

In theory engineering can be really helpful, but in my experience what might be more important and capture what is useful is more along the design type hacking/project classes. If there are classes where you have projects and build things in some sort of fabrication lab, that is probably a better fit than a theory type engineering class for most MDs. Now, if you're interested in research, that's a bit of a different story. Also, all the good people I know in fields like electrophysiology seem to have a solid engineering background.

Right now, if you're looking to help a resident or an attending with the research project, probably the most valuable and desirable thing you can bring to the table is the ability to do statistics and/or computational work. Almost every project collects data (typically in electronic form), and they typically do not have the training to work with it.

It's important not to forget that medical school is a school, it's where you go to learn things. The point is not to try to know everything in advance. However, there is something to be gained by learning the important things which medical schools doesn't cover well, or things which can you can contribute to the field from outside.
 
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My undergrad genetics was definitely just as hard as the med school version. However it understandably did not focus on pathology. Therefore, it made me good at doing mental math quickly (the final was 100 fill-in-the-number) but I still had to learn the diseases.

Undergrad biochem/physio can be a wonderful thing. Signal transduction is key to many many class, shelf, and Step 1 questions in med school, and the more a person is familiar with it, the better they will recall that stuff.



Did you think your undergrad genetics and Biochem was as helpful as you thought it was for the med school version?
 
I'll agree with everything the dude above me said.
 
My undergrad genetics was definitely just as hard as the med school version. However it understandably did not focus on pathology. Therefore, it made me good at doing mental math quickly (the final was 100 fill-in-the-number) but I still had to learn the diseases.

Undergrad biochem/physio can be a wonderful thing. Signal transduction is key to many many class, shelf, and Step 1 questions in med school, and the more a person is familiar with it, the better they will recall that stuff.
If you're really that interested why not just buy a Lippincott's Biochem and Physiology by Costanzo and study it, instead of taking the course?
 
I can't read books. All of the professors at my undergrad also tested exclusively from lecture material. I guess you could say I was one of those people that had 100% lecture attendance.
 
If you're really that interested why not just buy a Lippincott's Biochem and Physiology by Costanzo and study it, instead of taking the course?
Why not get academic credit for doing it? :p
 
Why not get academic credit for doing it? :p
And the GPA risk that comes along with that if you don't get an "A". That's fine if you choose to take it bc you love to learn, but to do it to try to game the system in an attempt to pre-learn MS-1 is gigantically foolish.
 
Hey everyone,

I am seeking advice from med school students about how to go about studying for immunology.
The professor, that I have currently gives us a quiz every week . . .the quiz is cumulative . . . .that is anything from Day 1 of class to the current day that he covers is game.
Its pretty easy for the first few weeks . . .but I don't know how I would go about tackling this later on the semester.

When I asked a friend of mine, she said to make review sheets . . . but on review sheets I noticed that you can't put a lot of pictures in them . . .I need pictures to study. I have no problem with the review sheets idea . . ..I'm just wondering what is the efficient way to study about 6-10 chapters a week? Ultimately, what is an efficient way to study like . . .a whole book of immunology?( Cause that's what he's going to cover)

I figure that as med school students ( or even pre-med) you might be going through an experience liker this( in preparing for the boards and all).
 
Hey everyone,

I am seeking advice from med school students about how to go about studying for immunology.
The professor, that I have currently gives us a quiz every week . . .the quiz is cumulative . . . .that is anything from Day 1 of class to the current day that he covers is game.
Its pretty easy for the first few weeks . . .but I don't know how I would go about tackling this later on the semester.

When I asked a friend of mine, she said to make review sheets . . . but on review sheets I noticed that you can't put a lot of pictures in them . . .I need pictures to study. I have no problem with the review sheets idea . . ..I'm just wondering what is the efficient way to study about 6-10 chapters a week? Ultimately, what is an efficient way to study like . . .a whole book of immunology?( Cause that's what he's going to cover)

I figure that as med school students ( or even pre-med) you might be going through an experience liker this( in preparing for the boards and all).
Anki flash cards and regularly reviewing notes or review sheets.
 
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Anki flash cards and regularly reviewing notes or review sheets.

Yeah but Anki doesn't allow me to use pictures and I guess what I am really asking is this . . .
During week 1 for example: I can get things done in like 3 hours for immune
How do I get things done within a reasonable amount of time the more chapters there are? How do you get things done within a relatively same time frame the more chapters there are? I can review the whole book in about a week . . . .but I don't have that kind of time.
 
Yeah but Anki doesn't allow me to use pictures and I guess what I am really asking is this . . .
During week 1 for example: I can get things done in like 3 hours for immune
How do I get things done within a reasonable amount of time the more chapters there are? How do you get things done within a relatively same time frame the more chapters there are? I can review the whole book in about a week . . . .but I don't have that kind of time.
Use image occluder in Anki to include images. Also, just my opinion as I realize everyone learns differently, but studying immunology from a primarily visual standpoint seems kind of odd And inefficient. Immunology, just like most other subjects, builds on itself. So as you progress, and if you stay on top of studying you'll be better able to recall older material and spend less and less time reviewing it.
 
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took 2 months of classes. gives academic advice.
 
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The students I know in my class who are currently failing are those who lack a good science background from undergrad. Luckily, I took many science classes during undergrad and I am not studying nearly as much as some of my classmates yet I am doing better so far. I am sure this experience will change as medical school gets more difficult and we get into stuff that's not talked about in undergrad, but having exposure to those courses has helped me immensely in lecture and in my studies. You can be going through a lot of stress early on if you are new to the material when school starts. This has been my current experience and my background has helped me settle in easier than some..

Classes I highly suggest (some are required by med schools, but some are not yet I still highly suggest):

Anatomy - at least take general anatomy. This will help you in tackling the advanced questions you will get right away at the beginning of med school.
Embryology - one of the most complained about subjects at my school
Genetics - I would know general genetics before starting
EPIDEMIOLOGY - I took a weak stats class. Lots of these questions in medical school and on the boards. I highly suggest taking this if you can. This is probably the most difficult, and boring, class.
Physiology - I am sure this is required by medical schools - get an A in this class.
Nutrition - believe it or not, having a basic understanding of nutrition has helped me a lot!
Immunology - we have yet to tackle immunology in depth, but knowing a bit about immunology has helped in my other classes already. I would for sure take this course.

Histology in medical school is not that hard - just takes practice looking at slides and you'll get it eventually. In my opinion, biochem is useful but not SUPER beneficial. If you take the above classes, you'll be fine in biochem.

I am a first year medical student so maybe MS2's have a different feeling about this. I haven't gotten to their level of experience yet, but as of right now, you might thank me by having these classes under your belt before medical school starts!

I'm pretty sure @southernIM, @Law2Doc and @DermViser have covered anything I would say, but just to throw my 2 cents in.

If I were an undergrad, I would ignore every last thing in the OP. It isn't just, "not good" advice. It is bad advice and has significant potential to HURT undergrads.
 
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I'm pretty sure @southernIM, @Law2Doc and @DermViser have covered anything I would say, but just to throw my 2 cents in.

If I were an undergrad, I would ignore every last thing in the OP. It isn't just, "not good" advice. It is bad advice and has significant potential to HURT undergrads.

*I deleted what I said. I am done with providing my opinion on this matter, which still stands. I have spoken to others who feel the same way I do, while some people (mainly residents) don't agree...people have varying opinions and experiences. I can speak on behalf of my experience, and others that I have spoke to, that medical school can be a lot easier if you have an early exposure, and it's allowed me to do many things in my personal life that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do..
 
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*I deleted what I said. I am done with providing my opinion on this matter, which still stands. I have spoken to others who feel the same way I do, while some people (mainly residents) don't agree...people have varying opinions and experiences. I can speak on behalf of my experience, and others that I have spoke to, that medical school can be a lot easier if you have an early exposure, and it's allowed me to do many things in my personal life that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do..
You're shocked that med students in upper years and residents will have different advice than someone who is 2 months into the grind of M-1? Shocking. You are not the first to believe, nor the last, that early exposure to preclinical material thru undergrad classes would have resulted in less time needed to study the material in medical school, higher class rank, a fantastic work-life balance, etc.

What we're telling you is that you're giving it A LOT more credence with respect to HOW much of a benefit you would be getting and how far ahead of your classmates you would have been, esp. since the others you are talking with that agree with you are also only 2 months into M1. It's really a grass is greener effect.

Sorry u didn't get the "thanks" you were hoping to get in your OP.
 
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You're shocked that med students in upper years and residents will have different advice than someone who is 2 months into the grind of M-1? Shocking. You are not the first to believe, nor the last, that early exposure to preclinical material thru undergrad classes would have resulted in less time needed to study the material in medical school, higher class rank, a fantastic work-life balance, etc.

What we're telling you is that you're giving it A LOT more credence with respect to HOW much of a benefit you would be getting and how far ahead of your classmates you would have been, esp. since the others you are talking with that agree with you are also only 2 months into M1. It's really a grass is greener effect.

Sorry u didn't get the "thanks" you were hoping to get in your OP.

As if I am here to beg for your thanks...and just to clarify, my comments aren't confined to what I learn from my experience or other first years. I have family and friends who are all ahead of me, and I thought I made that clear, but I do appreciate your input.
 
This thread has gone beyond ridiculousness... I am not sure people disagree with you @GomerPyle that seeing a material before might make it easier seeing at second time in med school... Where they might disagree with you is that telling people that they should go out of their way and start taking med school classes because it will make their life easier in med school. Of course if someone need some science electives to complete his/her undergrad, it would make sense to take classes like biochem, physiology, genetics since these classes will help you for the MCAT, and also might give you a leg up for the first couple months of med school. However, that does not mean you will automatically outperform your classmates that did not take these classes in undergrad.

Taking a year of undergrad classes because you want to make your life easier for the first couple of months of med school would not be a good use of one's time and energy.
 
I am a first year medical student so maybe MS2's have a different feeling about this. I haven't gotten to their level of experience yet, but as of right now, you might thank me by having these classes under your belt before medical school starts!

As if I am here to beg for your thanks...and just to clarify, my comments aren't confined to what I learn from my experience or other first years. I have family and friends who are all ahead of me, and I thought I made that clear, but I do appreciate your input.
....
 
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I was an ME major and I only took one course that the OP listed before starting the med school. And reflecting on the five weeks of medical school education I have so far, I don't think I am at a disadvantage. Then does it mean that if I took all these courses, I will be able to go to sleep before 10 PM?
 
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