Advice: I kind of *want* to go to a Caribbean School

[Bullseye_18]

I know, I know, I know...

I am an American living abroad (and taking only online courses unfortunately). My stats and extracurrics are fine. But here's the bottom line: I am marrying someone who still has his military commitment in the UK.

The argument for SGU: they are a GMC registered (UK accredited) school (AUC is not). I can do my clinical rotations in the UK and be with the husband. We could actually start a family. We could settle in the UK, and I could actually become a junior doctor (not making any money lol; I'm looking at Income-Based Loan Repayment). SGU would provide for me the opportunity and guidance to take my Step 1 and Step 2; so if we were to ever try to come back to the US, I would have already been working on the "necessities."

If I tried to gain entrance into a UK medical school (and there are options), it would be 5 years of training and just about the same cost. As I am not a citizen and not yet a legal resident, I do not qualify for the UK Tuition costs (9250 pounds).

Would it still be unwise for me to try Caribbean? Would it still be better to stay with him until his commitment is up and then move to the US and apply to MD/DO schools, even though this would be me applying in about 5 years?

I know what they say about Caribbean schools; but I kind of... want to go. Any advice and wisdom is welcome. Thank you!!

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[deleted480308]

The Caribbean is a bad idea regardless of who you fall in love with

 

[Bullseye_18]

Is it a bad idea when you are looking to practice in another country? It was to my knowledge that the "bad idea" mostly stems from one's ability to match into a residency. If there is no matching system but simply a hiring-system for FY1 junior doctors, then what is so "bad" about it? I'm curious; just saying something is bad without any qualification doesn't help the dialogue. Thanks.

 

[FrustratedFamDoc]

From a strictly US perspective, yes, they are a gamble when you look at the attrition rate, or the numbers of those that don't go on to become attendings. The debt (and interest), especially if you don't eventually make attending level money is suffocating. Please don't look at the government (Income based repayment) to excuse the loans that you willingly took on. They're not in the business of excusing the debt of "rich doctors."

 

[Goro]

I know, I know, I know...

I am an American living abroad (and taking only online courses unfortunately). My stats and extracurrics are fine. But here's the bottom line: I am marrying someone who still has his military commitment in the UK.

The argument for SGU: they are a GMC registered (UK accredited) school (AUC is not). I can do my clinical rotations in the UK and be with the husband. We could actually start a family. We could settle in the UK, and I could actually become a junior doctor (not making any money lol; I'm looking at Income-Based Loan Repayment). SGU would provide for me the opportunity and guidance to take my Step 1 and Step 2; so if we were to ever try to come back to the US, I would have already been working on the "necessities."

If I tried to gain entrance into a UK medical school (and there are options), it would be 5 years of training and just about the same cost. As I am not a citizen and not yet a legal resident, I do not qualify for the UK Tuition costs (9250 pounds).

Would it still be unwise for me to try Caribbean? Would it still be better to stay with him until his commitment is up and then move to the US and apply to MD/DO schools, even though this would be me applying in about 5 years?

I know what they say about Caribbean schools; but I kind of... want to go. Any advice and wisdom is welcome. Thank you!!

That sound you hear off in the distance is them smacking their lips at the thought of yet another mark.

You've been warned.

 

[SM25]

Most people who apply to the Caribbean don't know what they are doing. Successful Caribbean graduates end up in primary care 9/10 times so if you are destined for primary care via the Caribbean, you're actually better off trying for a DO school where the emphasis is primary care but you are almost guaranteed to match.

To be fair I think a lot of people apply to the Caribbean because they don't know what's out there. I don't think people apply to the Caribbean because they are knowingly trying to take a risk.

The only foolish people that apply to the Caribbean are those students who have terrible stats but think that they will somehow make it through medical school.

 

[Bullseye_18]

This sucks; I was just trying to find a "way" to not delay my dream for another 5+ years... and I will probably end up in nursing while living in the UK. (so that I am bringing in "some" kind of paycheck after my military days). I'll still weigh the options and change my perspective in being okay with "beginning" the training for my dream career at 34 (or later, depending on when we can move back to the US... IF we move back to the US). Thanks for the input; I will still try to find better options.

There is always a way! Never give up guys!

 

[FrustratedFamDoc]

This sucks; I was just trying to find a "way" to not delay my dream for another 5+ years... and I will probably end up in nursing while living in the UK. (so that I am bringing in "some" kind of paycheck after my military days). I'll still weigh the options and change my perspective in being okay with "beginning" the training for my dream career at 34 (or later, depending on when we can move back to the US... IF we move back to the US). Thanks for the input; I will still try to find better options.

There is always a way! Never give up guys!

Starting med school at 34 puts you at 41 at the soonest before receiving an attending paycheck. Think very carefully before adding that kind of debt to your life at that age. Most FMGs do end up in primary care. Trying to pay back >$250k with horrible interest rates is rough. It's even harder when you don't make specialist money.

 

[Osminog]

This is yet another rendition of the classic family vs. career thread. The answer to your question is, it depends on your values and how risk-tolerant you are. On one hand, going to a Caribbean medical school is a serious gamble (at SGU, the attrition rate has been estimated to be around 40%). On the other, it’s emotionally taxing to wait for five years to apply to MD/DO programs if medicine is truly your dream profession—and it would be even more emotionally taxing to go to a US medical school immediately and to be away from your husband for four years.

There are also a lot of uncertainties: Would you be able to snag the UK rotations if you were an SGU student? Would the prospect of being away from your husband for two years affect your pre-clinical performance at SGU? Would your life situation in five years allow you to apply to US schools?

I’m a risk-averse and family-focused person, and I try to not view medicine through rose-tinted glasses. If I were in your position, I’d work in the UK and stay with my partner during his service—and I’d stay open to the prospect of eventually choosing a different path in healthcare that would allow me to more easily start a family. But that’s just the personal preference of some dude on SDN. Your values and goals and ideals may be quite different from mine, so you will have to ultimately pave your own path.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[SAC 1008]

In my personal opinion as a Caribbean student medical student I will tell you one to stay away from University of Medicine and Health Science (UMHS). There are very few Caribbean schools that are a success regarding there students, yet look at the longevity, average Step 1 score, what is their curriculum based from (meaning at UMHS every course is based on a review book that are older versions), where do they have the opportunity to go and do rotations, and finally how well do they get Residency matches. Mind you Step 1 scores and Residency numbers are statistics which can be manipulated. I do know a few people that have gone to do very well but usually those are the people that are connected or get it all and completely understand medicine. US/Canadian schools are much better than the best Caribbean school.

 

[Klk0529]

This sucks; I was just trying to find a "way" to not delay my dream for another 5+ years... and I will probably end up in nursing while living in the UK. (so that I am bringing in "some" kind of paycheck after my military days). I'll still weigh the options and change my perspective in being okay with "beginning" the training for my dream career at 34 (or later, depending on when we can move back to the US... IF we move back to the US). Thanks for the input; I will still try to find better options.

There is always a way! Never give up guys!

I will tell you from my point of view, of someone who just turned 40 2 weeks ago and took the MCAT 5 days before my birthday. I am trying to go to the Caribbean, as I have a degree in Biology/Pre-Med. I have worked in the industry for over 17 years and most of the 22-27 year olds who are applying currently, have options and time (at the moment). The thing for myself is that the US will no acknowledge my degree and wants me to take EVERYTHING all over again. All that I have done in the industry and what I have learned, there is no reason for this let alone the time and money from doing that. The Caribbean is giving me the opportunity to deal with those constraints. I have had a great life and would not change my path for the world. I know that this is my time and I know I will be one hell of a surgeon. You have to go with your gut and what will be right for YOU first and foremost. I have plenty of friends who are physicians and no matter where you go, it is about the work you are willing to put in. Now you may have to fight a little harder for a residency spot b/c of being a Caribbean medical school grad but if you don't want to put the work in, then don't go to Medical School anyways. I hope this helps and gives you some inspiration. By the way people talking about debt later in life, by 2020 there will be a physician shortage in the US by over 20,000. There are plenty of places that will do loan forgiveness or make it a part of your salary package. There are all kinds of excuses to come up with not to do

 

[bedevilled ben]

I will tell you from my point of view, of someone who just turned 40 2 weeks ago and took the MCAT 5 days before my birthday. I am trying to go to the Caribbean, as I have a degree in Biology/Pre-Med. I have worked in the industry for over 17 years and most of the 22-27 year olds who are applying currently, have options and time (at the moment). The thing for myself is that the US will no acknowledge my degree and wants me to take EVERYTHING all over again. All that I have done in the industry and what I have learned, there is no reason for this let alone the time and money from doing that. The Caribbean is giving me the opportunity to deal with those constraints. I have had a great life and would not change my path for the world. I know that this is my time and I know I will be one hell of a surgeon. You have to go with your gut and what will be right for YOU first and foremost. I have plenty of friends who are physicians and no matter where you go, it is about the work you are willing to put in. Now you may have to fight a little harder for a residency spot b/c of being a Caribbean medical school grad but if you don't want to put the work in, then don't go to Medical School anyways. I hope this helps and gives you some inspiration. By the way people talking about debt later in life, by 2020 there will be a physician shortage in the US by over 20,000. There are plenty of places that will do loan forgiveness or make it a part of your salary package. There are all kinds of excuses to come up with not to do

If your degree in biology is 17 years old, then I would really strongly caution you against this course of action. There has been an exponential explosion of information in medical sciences in the last 20 years and a lot of what you may have learned, even if you've kept up with "the industry" since then, has likely changed. The Step 1 exams heavily focus on basic sciences and memorization of huge volumes of information, most of which is not applicable outside of medical education or sub-specialty medicine.

It is sadly not just about the work that you do. Once you obtain a residency and are working alongside other residents in your field, then your place of education does start to fade, that is true. But it never goes away, and being able to get that residency spot in the first place does very much depend on where you go to medical school, especially if it's a non-US school.

Don't believe all the statistics you see about physician shortages. There have been physician shortages for years, the issue is more about the distribution of medical care and the over-saturation of sub-specialty physicians than it is about total numbers. Depending on what you choose as a career, you may find yourself completely unable to find a job (see Pathologists.) The US political climate changes by the day, and is especially in upheaval as 2020 elections are shaping up to become an ideological battleground for the country. Things like government student loan forgiveness programs or debt repayment options are completely unpredictable right now. Saddling yourself with $500k in debt at the age of 50 could be financially catastrophic for you.

There are all kinds of excuses to come up with not to do

This is a really uncharitable thing to say and completely undermines an important skill that is absolutely necessary for all physicians: risk analysis. Taking a measured and realistic look at facts and data, assessing the potential risks and benefits, and then coming to a reasoned and thorough conclusion. Not only does it sound like you have not done this, you are actively encouraging others to disengage from that process as well.

 

[FrustratedFamDoc]

Soooo you're 40, want to go through a surgical residency by way of a Caribbean med school that you haven't even started yet.

You're 17 years out from undergrad who will be competing (yes competing. You need to be in the top of your class to even sniff a surgical spot coming in as an IMG) with kiddos FRESH out of undergrad, MANY of which have pretty much taken or studied MS-I and II curriculum already in anticipation.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

 

[Raney Schauer]

Starting med school at 34 puts you at 41 at the soonest before receiving an attending paycheck. Think very carefully before adding that kind of debt to your life at that age. Most FMGs do end up in primary care. Trying to pay back >$250k with horrible interest rates is rough. It's even harder when you don't make specialist money.

Puh-leez. All you have to do is not be stupid with your money. Living like a resident after you've been doing it for 3-5 years already is not that bad. You're going to be busting your ass as a new attending anyway.

 

[Raney Schauer]

Soooo you're 40, want to go through a surgical residency by way of a Caribbean med school that you haven't even started yet.

You're 17 years out from undergrad who will be competing (yes competing. You need to be in the top of your class to even sniff a surgical spot coming in as an IMG) with kiddos FRESH out of undergrad, MANY of which have pretty much taken or studied MS-I and II curriculum already in anticipation.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

Regardless of age, for surgery you need to be at the top of your class anyway. You're one of those people that make this place toxic with negativity.

 

[FrustratedFamDoc]

Puh-leez. All you have to do is not be stupid with your money. Living like a resident after you've been doing it for 3-5 years already is not that bad. You're going to be busting your ass as a new attending anyway.

Regardless of age, for surgery you need to be at the top of your class anyway. You're one of those people that make this place toxic with negativity.

I'm as much of an optimist as you'll ever know, but I have also been through 4 years of Caribbean med school as a nontraditional student, the match, the scramble, residency, have been an attending for 7 years. I bring a certain level of perspective to the conversation and know what the hell I'm talking about. I'll see your good feels and raise you with knowledge and brutal student loan payments.

I lived the dream of being a doctor one day and just knew that since I wanted it so bad that, it would just happen. Debt be damned. Went in guns blazing. I had been out of school just 1 year (2 years of post bac for my prerequisites), and almost tanked out my first semester in med school. After seriously altering my studying strategy, I did well enough afterwards. My roommate ended up having to decal because of biochem (the assassin of first term) and ended up not passing step one. Really nice guy who with better instruction could of been one hell of a family doc (all he ever wanted to do). There were many like him.

Long story short, With halfway decent stats, I still had to scramble in to a thankfully great program and am now doing well, sans the loan payments.

What you call negativity, I call perspective and experience. I'm not sure where you are in your training, but I wish you well and good fortune.

 

[Listen2Savage]

undergrad is completely useless, OP shouldn't be worried about going into M1 at a loss of knowledge.

Mark V speaks the truth, too many people on these forums take this shiz personally.

Half the people from jump will fail out so there's that, also only like 30 out of 500 or something matched surgery from SGU this year... those aren't good odds for an older guy, surgery is very much a young man's game

 

[Klk0529]

I'm as much of an optimist as you'll ever know, but I have also been through 4 years of Caribbean med school as a nontraditional student, the match, the scramble, residency, have been an attending for 7 years. I bring a certain level of perspective to the conversation and know what the hell I'm talking about. I'll see your good feels and raise you with knowledge and brutal student loan payments.

I lived the dream of being a doctor one day and just knew that since I wanted it so bad that, it would just happen. Debt be damned. Went in guns blazing. I had been out of school just 1 year (2 years of post bac for my prerequisites), and almost tanked out my first semester in med school. After seriously altering my studying strategy, I did well enough afterwards. My roommate ended up having to decal because of biochem (the assassin of first term) and ended up not passing step one. Really nice guy who with better instruction could of been one hell of a family doc (all he ever wanted to do). There were many like him.

Long story short, With halfway decent stats, I still had to scramble in to a thankfully great program and am now doing well, sans the loan payments.

What you call negativity, I call perspective and experience. I'm not sure where you are in your training, but I wish you well and good fortune.

I completely appreciate your opinion, as we are each entitled to our own, and I did put this information on here, knowing full and well people will have their opinions. As I was told a long time ago, opinions are like dinguses, we all have em'. What you do not know and you just wanted to be judgmental is that I am also taking Biochemistry, Anatomy, Physiology, and Biology of Cancer, while working and was studying for the MCAT from UC Berkeley. Unlike your roommate, and yourself who seemed to have struggled just having classes to be concerned with, I have straight A's and though I have been out of my normal undergrad, I would rather die living my dream with debt than die being absolutely miserable and not utilizing the best version of myself. As Denzel Washington said in a commencement speech I once heard, you have never seen a Uhaul behind a hearse.

 

[IMGASMD]

I will tell you from my point of view, of someone who just turned 40 2 weeks ago and took the MCAT 5 days before my birthday. I am trying to go to the Caribbean, as I have a degree in Biology/Pre-Med. I have worked in the industry for over 17 years and most of the 22-27 year olds who are applying currently, have options and time (at the moment). The thing for myself is that the US will no acknowledge my degree and wants me to take EVERYTHING all over again. All that I have done in the industry and what I have learned, there is no reason for this let alone the time and money from doing that. The Caribbean is giving me the opportunity to deal with those constraints. I have had a great life and would not change my path for the world. I know that this is my time and I know I will be one hell of a surgeon. You have to go with your gut and what will be right for YOU first and foremost. I have plenty of friends who are physicians and no matter where you go, it is about the work you are willing to put in. Now you may have to fight a little harder for a residency spot b/c of being a Caribbean medical school grad but if you don't want to put the work in, then don't go to Medical School anyways. I hope this helps and gives you some inspiration. By the way people talking about debt later in life, by 2020 there will be a physician shortage in the US by over 20,000. There are plenty of places that will do loan forgiveness or make it a part of your salary package. There are all kinds of excuses to come up with not to do

#reminderin10years

 

[TheGoodDoc83]

#reminderin10years

This is a very condescending individual. After looking at his/her post history, we know how negative he/she views Caribbean schools. It's definitely not the same for everybody who went there. I'd love to know this IMGAS medical education history, that's for sure! I'd rather recommend IMGA be a secretary instead of a physician...he/she loves giving reminders. You're lucky you got 10 years! In another thread, I got a reminder for a year but I told IMGA to make it 6 months instead! LOL

#pencilmeinfor6months
#humoristhebestmedicine

 

[IMGASMD]

This is a very condescending individual. After looking at his/her post history, we know how negative he/she views Caribbean schools. It's definitely not the same for everybody who went there. I'd love to know this IMGAS medical education history, that's for sure! I'd rather recommend IMGA be a secretary instead of a physician...he/she loves giving reminders. You're lucky you got 10 years! In another thread, I got a reminder for a year but I told IMGA to make it 6 months instead! LOL

#pencilmeinfor6months
#humoristhebestmedicine

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