Advice needed for an LOR situation

[mishyfishy333]

Hi everyone. I'm currently in the cycle and writing secondaries (I know, it's the end of the month, but to be fair I work full time in the ED and volunteer at multiple places and have hardly had time to eat or sleep, let alone write quality secondaries so yeah D: ) and I have a dilemma. (Sorry in advance for the long post to follow.)

As most of my schools require a minimum of 1 science faculty LOR, I sent an email to one of my professors from undergrad (I graduated in 2016) in April earlier this year and he agreed to write it -- he actually emailed me back that same day, so I thought he would be able to get his LOR out to me relatively quickly. However....he hasn't yet. It's been months and I've been emailing him once a month during the school year, and now once a week in the month of July in addition to calling his lab/office/cell phone numbers in an attempt to contact him so I could talk to him in person (since he provided those phone numbers in his email signature). 2 weeks ago I left a message on his cell phone for the first time, and he texted me later that night saying that he "got my message and will have the letter in by tomorrow", but the next day came and went without any sign of the letter. I've called his lab a bunch of times since then and spoke to one of his postdocs, who told me the professor had been sick but that he would try to remind the professor when he got the chance, but still -- radio silence.

It's almost the end of July now, and most of my secondaries (at least, the ones I haven't submitted due to this problem) are well over the 2-week "deadline". As much as I want to believe that this professor will write my LOR and submit it (since he's already agreed twice now to do it), I'm extremely hesitant to submit secondaries to the schools that require 3 LORs (with the missing one being my professor's LOR), since that would mean dropping ~$2000-3000 on secondaries (I'm applying to 38 schools this cycle) that might not even be read if this professor does't get the LOR in.

Some things to note:
1. Unfortunately, I don't have a backup professor to write my LOR. The original professor who I thought could write my LOR (because I'd TA'd for him) refused to do it because I didn't take a lab class with him. Ugh.
2. I don't live in the same city as my university anymore -- while I do live 2 hours away, my schedule is so jam packed until the end of August that it'll probably be difficult to squeeze a trip in to see him in person.
3. I have already submitted secondaries to the schools that only required 2 LORs (unfortunately, only 4 out of my original 38).

What should I do in this situation: do I submit my secondaries anyway so that they're still submitted as "early as possible", or do I wait for my professor's LOR so that I don't take the chance of wasting $3000 on this cycle for nothing? Also, as this is my first time in the cycle and I don't have many premed friends: is it normal for professors to be this late in submitting LORs?

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[drgweeds]

Seems like you got yourself stuck in an awful situation. In retrospect you should had had someone else write you one after having more than a month go by. You definitely want to give your writers time, but more than 3 weeks is too long for a strong letter. If anything people should be excited to write you one. Anyway, what’s done is done and in your case I would probably ask literally any other professor you had to write you a letter. Do this while still pressuring the other prof to write you a letter. Then when it’s time, just include whichever gets turned in first.

If I were you I probably would professionally call out your professor and let him know how much he let you down. He might not care, but’s it’s important to communicate your truth. Especially if you don’t need anything from that institution anymore.

For all you out there applying in the future, let this be a lesson! Always have plan b’s and c’sand never wait to the last minute.

 

[RedRoses]

Hi everyone. I'm currently in the cycle and writing secondaries (I know, it's the end of the month, but to be fair I work full time in the ED and volunteer at multiple places and have hardly had time to eat or sleep, let alone write quality secondaries so yeah D: ) and I have a dilemma. (Sorry in advance for the long post to follow.)

As most of my schools require a minimum of 1 science faculty LOR, I sent an email to one of my professors from undergrad (I graduated in 2016) in April earlier this year and he agreed to write it -- he actually emailed me back that same day, so I thought he would be able to get his LOR out to me relatively quickly. However....he hasn't yet. It's been months and I've been emailing him once a month during the school year, and now once a week in the month of July in addition to calling his lab/office/cell phone numbers in an attempt to contact him so I could talk to him in person (since he provided those phone numbers in his email signature). 2 weeks ago I left a message on his cell phone for the first time, and he texted me later that night saying that he "got my message and will have the letter in by tomorrow", but the next day came and went without any sign of the letter. I've called his lab a bunch of times since then and spoke to one of his postdocs, who told me the professor had been sick but that he would try to remind the professor when he got the chance, but still -- radio silence.

It's almost the end of July now, and most of my secondaries (at least, the ones I haven't submitted due to this problem) are well over the 2-week "deadline". As much as I want to believe that this professor will write my LOR and submit it (since he's already agreed twice now to do it), I'm extremely hesitant to submit secondaries to the schools that require 3 LORs (with the missing one being my professor's LOR), since that would mean dropping ~$2000-3000 on secondaries (I'm applying to 38 schools this cycle) that might not even be read if this professor does't get the LOR in.

Some things to note:
1. Unfortunately, I don't have a backup professor to write my LOR. The original professor who I thought could write my LOR (because I'd TA'd for him) refused to do it because I didn't take a lab class with him. Ugh.
2. I don't live in the same city as my university anymore -- while I do live 2 hours away, my schedule is so jam packed until the end of August that it'll probably be difficult to squeeze a trip in to see him in person.
3. I have already submitted secondaries to the schools that only required 2 LORs (unfortunately, only 4 out of my original 38).

What should I do in this situation: do I submit my secondaries anyway so that they're still submitted as "early as possible", or do I wait for my professor's LOR so that I don't take the chance of wasting $3000 on this cycle for nothing? Also, as this is my first time in the cycle and I don't have many premed friends: is it normal for professors to be this late in submitting LORs?

I had a similar situation in which 2/5 of my professors were so late in submitting their LORs that I submitted without having their letters in. However, this led to schools flagging my application as incomplete as my primary app indicated I still had two outstanding LORs. I ended up marking them as no longer sending and went with the minimum of 3. When the professors finally submitted the letters in like January, the schools no longer accepted them as I reported them as no longer sending.

Seeing as you don’t even have the minimum, the best thing you can do is annoy the heck out of the professor everyday until they get it in. Don’t be ashamed, timid, or embarrassed; this is your application, your future.

What you could also do is try to write the letter yourself and then email it to said professor for their review. This could help expedite the process if they’re too sick/busy to write one on their own.

 

[honeybee87]

Bruh what you mean it’s the end of the month as long as you get ur secondaries done within 1 month of their arrival your good

EDIT: one thing I learned:
QUALITY >>>>>> QUANTITY
Looking at the letters I wrote within 2 weeks, I know I ain’t getting the II, I’m getting the R

 

[RedRoses]

Bruh what you mean it’s the end of the month as long as you get ur secondaries done within 1 month of their arrival your good

It might be worth contacting schools and telling them the situation. Ask them if the secondary needs to be complete with all supporting documents within 2 weeks or just complete and submitted on your end. In my experience, I believe it is the former.

 

[honeybee87]

It might be worth contacting schools and telling them the situation. Ask them if the secondary needs to be complete with all supporting documents within 2 weeks or just complete and submitted on your end. In my experience, I believe it is the former.

There are very few med schools that explicitly say have it done within 2 weeks. Yes, while they can see the date on submission, do you really think they’ll care that much? Think about it, most schools start evaluating in August, so they’re going through a massive batch of submissions. You’re not gonna lose out on an II because of submitting 3 weeks instead of 2

 

[honeybee87]

This is typical neurotic pre-med... There is NO two-week deadline on secondaries, unless it is one of the few schools that actively goes out and says they want it within two weeks...

Submitting over two weeks is FINE

You see, you and I understand. We have transcended beyond SDN

 

[RedRoses]

There are very few med schools that explicitly say have it done within 2 weeks. Yes, while they can see the date on submission, do you really think they’ll care that much? Think about it, most schools start evaluating in August, so they’re going through a massive batch of submissions. You’re not gonna lose out on an II because of submitting 3 weeks instead of 2

I only remember a couple of schools that explicitly stated a hard limit but almost all of the rest recommended comlpeting within 2 weeks.

And this is not a case between 2 and 3 weeks. OP doesn’t know when the professor will submit and it’s already been passed the 2 week recommendation.

 

[honeybee87]

Provide one link where a single medical school without a deadline "recommends completing within 2 weeks"

This is just not true... The 2-week rule was invented on Student Doctor Network hahaha

A few have this rule, UCLA being one of them (though it’s weird with them cuz the email says 30 days but website 15 days). The UCs all have 1 month as well, but yeh not the 2 weeks

EDIT: nvm I read roses post wrong. Yeh rose I explicitly searched the deadline for each school on my email list cuz I too had neurotism about this, and NONE of the schools said anything about 2 weeks. The schools on a rolling basis said completing ASAP would help your app, but it said nothing about 2 weeks or that waiting longer would negatively hurt your chances (you would just lose the positive reward of submiting early if that makes sense, but there’s no punishment)

 

[RedRoses]

This is typical neurotic pre-med... There is NO two-week deadline on secondaries, unless it is one of the few schools that actively goes out and says they want it within two weeks...

Submitting over two weeks is FINE

In my opinion, you should complete and submit the secondaries, even without the letters. The professor will likely submit it soon, assuming you keep pressuring him. It isn't even August. Having your app 100% complete by Labor Day is still considered early. Don't let the ridiculous gunners who insist you must have every secondary submitted within 25 minutes freak you out.

Of course it is. But OP is not getting any response form his recommended and

Provide one link where a single medical school without a deadline "recommends completing within 2 weeks"

This is just not true... The 2-week rule was invented on Student Doctor Network hahaha

 

[RedRoses]

Provide one link where a single medical school without a deadline "recommends completing within 2 weeks"

This is just not true... The 2-week rule was invented on Student Doctor Network hahaha

 

[honeybee87]

Lol care to give the name of the school lol so I’m not screwed over for reading too quick. And I’m assuming that’s in the email?

 

[RedRoses]

Lol care to give the name of the school lol so I’m not screwed over for reading too quick. And I’m assuming that’s in the email?

Lol I’d rather keep the name of school anonymous but yes, that was the secondary email I received. It was the first one I could find in my inbox from awhile back.

 

[honeybee87]

Lol I’d rather keep the name of school anonymous but yes, that was the secondary email I received. It was the first one I could find in my inbox from awhile back.

Lol Can u at least give the state or pm me the name?

 

[honeybee87]

I have applied to 28 schools this cycle and thankfully did not find that line in any of my secondary invitations. So it's either from a school I didn't apply to or they eliminated that recommendation this cycle.

Yeh I applied to around 34, the only schools that had a deadline or an exact “recommendation” date were the UCs

 

[honeybee87]

Google search tells you this school is Quinnipiac... did not apply there

Hahahah good thinking. Yep same.

 

[RedRoses]

Hahahah good thinking. Yep same.

Perhaps. Don’t read too fast and I would also check to see if this language is anywhere in the secondary portals as well

 

[honeybee87]

Perhaps. Don’t read too fast and I would also check to see if this language is anywhere in the secondary portals as well

I haven’t yet seen any school that had something different on their portal vs their email/school site but if you find something different let me know!

 

[RedRoses]

I haven’t yet seen any school that had something different on their portal vs their email/school site but if you find something different let me know!

Lol I’ve already applied, which is how I know this two week rule isn’t something “invented on student doctor network”. It would behove you to do your due diligence with your 28 applications to see if YOU find something different.

As for OP, take it from someone that’s been there and that actually went through a similar situation Reach out to these schools and let them know the circumstances and that you’re very much still interested in applying to their program.

 

[honeybee87]

Lol I’ve already applied, which is how I know this two week rule isn’t something “invented on student doctor network”. It would behove you to do your due diligence with your 28 applications to see if YOU find something different.

As for OP, take it from someone that’s been there and that actually went through a similar situation Reach out to these schools and let them know the circumstances and that you’re very much still interested in applying to their program.

Bruh you joined last month what you mean this 2 weeks rule wasn’t “invented on sdn”. And good for u for finishing, if ur apps would be the same quality waiting an additional week then u made a smart decision and can enjoy the rest of summer! Gl on interviews

 

[RedRoses]

Bruh you joined last month what you mean this 2 weeks rule wasn’t “invented on sdn”. And good for u for finishing, if ur apps would be the same quality waiting an additional week then u made a smart decision and can enjoy the rest of summer! Gl on interviews

Lol I’ve made a new profile after being admitted. I’ve been on SDN since 2015. I just provided you with the proof and disproved your claim. It was also mentioned that the UCs schools give a similar recommendation for completing secondaries. You sir, have a long way to go. Good luck!

 

[honeybee87]

Lol I’ve made a new profile after being admitted. I’ve been on SDN since 2015. I just provided you with the proof and disproved your claim. It was also mentioned that the UCs schools give a similar recommendation for completing secondaries. You sir, have a long way to go. Good luck!

Yep I do in fact. Anyways, while you have no credibility, I do want to make clear that 1 school recommending to complete in 2 weeks + the UCs does not mean you need to get every school done within 2 weeks. In fact, I even mentioned that those schools that do recommend to get their secondaries done within 2 weeks and the UCs are all schools that you actually should get done within 2 weeks lol. So I’m not sure what you’re really talking about. Just coninueinf this convo cuz I’m bored at this point. It also doesn’t make sense that you blacked out the name to remain anonymous even tho ur admitted but whatevs

EDIT: sorry, get the UCs done within a month, not 2 weeks (except UCLA)

 

[honeybee87]

It's official... Quinnipiac invented the two-week rule

I still do NOT suggest OP reach out to all of his schools and ask if he can submit his application after two weeks, when none of them (unless he's applying to Quinnipiac) say anything about having to submit your secondaries within two weeks.

I think this would 1) be a waste of time, 2) bring light on the fact that you hadn't submitted your secondary yet, 3) make you look dumb for asking if there is a hidden deadline when they explicitly state a deadline (likely in Nov or Dec some time) in their initial secondary invitation

Opinons? @LizzyM @gonnif @Goro

To save you trouble, LizzyM mentioned in a previous post you should get apps done within 2 weeks, gonnif recommends getting it done in 2 days (2 hours one day 2 hours the next), and people have been asking goro too many secondary questions (including me lol) so he’s a little burnt out. BUT I can almost guarantee that all three would say that emailing the schools in this case would be a pretty terrible idea for the reasons you gave above. Now if this was a hard 2 week deadline, OP would have more reason to email. But certainly not this case

 

[RedRoses]

Lol you literally stated “Provide one link where a single medical school without a deadline "recommends completing within 2 weeks"

This is just not true... The 2-week rule was invented on Student Doctor Network hahaha”

And let me be clear, I never said all schools. I said many of the schools I applied to had this language in their emails or portals. Of course each school is different, but to say these deadlines/recommendations don’t exists is factually incorrect.

To save you trouble, LizzyM mentioned in a previous post you should get apps done within 2 weeks, gonnif recommends getting it done in 2 days (2 hours one day 2 hours the next), and people have been asking goro too many secondary questions (including me lol) so he’s a little burnt out. BUT I can almost guarantee that all three would say that emailing the schools in this case would be a pretty terrible idea for the reasons you gave above. Now if this was a hard 2 week deadline, OP would have more reason to email. But certainly not this case

Again, you are going against evidence and the advice of actually adcoms lol. Look, It’s fine if you wish to assuage your own feelings about submitting your own secondaries late, but luckily there are individuals here (that have gone through the interview process and been successful) to promote preparedness, punctuality, and compliance with each institutions’ guidelines to other teachable applicants as to increase their chances and competitiveness.

 

[honeybee87]

Lol you literally stated “Provide one link where a single medical school without a deadline "recommends completing within 2 weeks"

This is just not true... The 2-week rule was invented on Student Doctor Network hahaha”

And let me be clear, I never said all schools. I said many of the schools I applied to had this language in their emails or portals. Of course each school is different, but to say these deadlines/recommendations don’t exists is factually incorrect.



Again, you are going against evidence and the advice of actually adcoms lol. Look, It’s fine if you wish to assuage your own feelings about submitting your own secondaries late, but luckily there are individuals here (that have gone through the interview process and been successful) to promote preparedness, punctuality, and compliance with each institutions guidelines to other teachable applicants as to increase their chances and competitiveness.

K man I’m sure everyone on here takes a 1 month old sdn user seriously. Probably a re-applicant lmaoooo. Anyways, if you haven’t noticed, each adcom is from a different school and while there’s a lot of questions that they agree on, you can go to a lot of posts where adcoms also disagree. And n=1 surely does not equal N. Now, I’m not saying anything bad about submitting early, by all means if you can do that that is certainly better than submitting within a month. But what I have been noticing especially here on SDN is that they are so focused about the nitty gritty things like applying early that they tend to forgot about the bigger picture (prepare for interviews, get good grades, kill the MCAT, have good EC, etc., all things that I have). So you can do you, imma do me

 

[RedRoses]

My advice in emailing the schools stems from the fact that OP’s LOR is being held up indefinitely. It has nothing to do with any deadlines lol. If they know the professor will submit it next week then great. But the professor has not returned any of OP’s correspondences. A responsible applicant will prepare accordingly. It doesn’t matter that it’s not Labor Day yet lol What matters is that OP has received the secondaries and to let them sit incomplete indefinitely could convey a message of being uninterested, unorganized, or irresponsible, you pick.

I have attended multiple interviews where the dean stated some applicants have been selected over others simply because they submitted their financial aid documents earlier. Lol you haven’t been there and all the evidence and advice is conflicting with your “opinion” so please STAAPPPPHHH

 

[Moko]

Submit your secondaries only after they are ready to be submitted. A rushed sloppy secondary won't do you any good. Some schools (apart from those mentioned here) do recommend some guidelines on when to submit by so be sure to prioritize those secondaries first. Otherwise, just make sure that they're done before September to give you the best chance of still getting a II (most interview slots are given out in July-September).

 

[RedRoses]

I also should mention that I'm not arguing in any way shape or form that submitting your application earlier isn't better. Everyone should submit as early as possible.

To your previous point: To say that the absence of this language from the 28 medical schools you applied to out of the 170+ institutions invalidates my experience is......interesting to say the least.

To your second point: read my first response to OP. I made no mention of any 2 week deadline. Because I’m not concerned with any deadline. I’m concerned with them not having any idea when their LOR will be in. And if you think schools won’t have a record of when the secondary was sent and when it was complete....well then you’re very inexperienced. From a person that’s sat with many adcoms, being punctual is extremely important and if you cannot, it would be better than not to communicate with schools as to why you are lagging behind. It’s a competitive process. You’ll learn.

 

[RedRoses]

Take a look OP, just in case you have applied to any of these schools as well.

List of secondary turnaround deadlines

I know that for the most part, the 2-week turnaround guideline isn't a rule set in stone, but some schools do have soft/hard deadline. I didn't see another thread for it, but I wanted to make a list of secondary turnaround deadlines that do exist. For the schools that I applied to: - Carle...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[honeybee87]

Take a look OP, just in case you have applied to any of these schools as well.

List of secondary turnaround deadlines

I know that for the most part, the 2-week turnaround guideline isn't a rule set in stone, but some schools do have soft/hard deadline. I didn't see another thread for it, but I wanted to make a list of secondary turnaround deadlines that do exist. For the schools that I applied to: - Carle...

forums.studentdoctor.net

While that’s a helpful link, I don’t think that applies to mayo anymore. The email doesn’t say anything about 2 weeks, nor does the website. It’s not even included in the selection criteria lol. Lemme check the portal real quick and update

UPDATE: they “strongly recommend applicants to apply early”. So no 2 weeks, rather, ASAP

 

[RedRoses]

Here’s another one OP. Interestingly, applicants to this institution are reporting discrepancies in their emails.

2019-2020 Wayne State

For the unique prompt, would talking about my time studying abroad in Japan be appropriate? I've had a lifelong interest and respect for Japanese culture which is what drove me to study there.

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[honeybee87]

Here’s another one OP. Interestingly, applicants to this institution are reporting discrepancies in their emails.

2019-2020 Wayne State

For the unique prompt, would talking about my time studying abroad in Japan be appropriate? I've had a lifelong interest and respect for Japanese culture which is what drove me to study there.

forums.studentdoctor.net

Yep, I had a similar problem myself. In UCLAs email, the deadline was 1 month. On the website, it was 15 days. I went with the 15 days cuz I was too lazy to call (even If I called, they would have no record that I did call and would assume that I was too lazy to even bother looking at their site)

 

[LizzyM]

It's official... Quinnipiac invented the two-week rule

I still do NOT suggest OP reach out to all of his schools and ask if he can submit his application after two weeks, when none of them (unless he's applying to Quinnipiac) say anything about having to submit your secondaries within two weeks.

I think this would 1) be a waste of time, 2) bring light on the fact that you hadn't submitted your secondary yet, 3) make you look dumb for asking if there is a hidden deadline when they explicitly state a deadline (likely in Nov or Dec some time) in their initial secondary invitation

Opinons? @LizzyM @gonnif @Goro

You have control over when your secondaries are submitted. Ideally, you turn these around quickly and show by your action that you are interested in the school.

You have limited control over the timing of your letters of recommendation. It is my general rule that if they are in by Labor Day, you'll be fine. If a school has a guideline or deadline for secondaries it does not apply to letters of recommendation. The schools are well aware that many feeder schools do not send committee letters until August. From that comes my Labor Day rule.