advice needed: ortho for foreign students

[Ramzi]

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Okay, many people have told me that it is mission impossible, especially if I'm planning to go to a state university, because unfortunately, I cannot afford to go to a private school.
I have just got back from the GRE test and I've got 1200 (760 quant and 440 verbal), should I retake the exam to get higher scores?

My stats are as follows:
GPA 3.79 (Non USA school) (rank 1st/80)
TOEFL 265
GRE 1200
NBDE I and II to be taken in summer
2 years experience
2 scientific papers in progress, one of them specialized in orthodontics
a member in student council for 3 years
a member of the executive council of a royal fund for development for one year.

Would my scores in GRE and TOEFL compromise my chances as they are just above the required scores?!

I am planning to apply to the universities of Minnesota, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Illinois, Tennessee, Louisiana and Alabama. Do I seem to have good chances? and how should I sort these universities in the match application?

a professor once told me that visiting their university before applying might give me a better feeling on my chances of admission, what does that mean?

thanks a lot for your cooperation

 

[jpollei]

Okay, many people have told me that it is mission impossible, especially if I'm planning to go to a state university, because unfortunately, I cannot afford to go to a private school.
I have just got back from the GRE test and I've got 1200 (760 quant and 440 verbal), should I retake the exam to get higher scores?

My stats are as follows:
GPA 3.79 (Non USA school) (rank 1st/80)
TOEFL 265
GRE 1200
NBDE I and II to be taken in summer
2 years experience
2 scientific papers in progress, one of them specialized in orthodontics
a member in student council for 3 years
a member of the executive council of a royal fund for development for one year.

Would my scores in GRE and TOEFL compromise my chances as they are just above the required scores?!

I am planning to apply to the universities of Minnesota, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Illinois, Tennessee, Louisiana and Alabama. Do I seem to have good chances? and how should I sort these universities in the match application?

a professor once told me that visiting their university before applying might give me a better feeling on my chances of admission, what does that mean?

thanks a lot for your cooperation

Biggest thing at present seems to be your board scores. If they're great (mid-90's) I'd imagine you may well have a shot. If not, probably not. You're right, it seems a tough wall for foreign grads to get over. You may want to select additional program to apply to.
As for match, there is no way anyone should tell you how to "sort" or rank these program...that's all up to you and your thoughts on them after interviews.
Visiting a program is simply a way to get to know faculty better so they know more about you than the paper version of your app. Can help you intwo ways that I see it: they like you and decide they want to interview you, or they don't like you and thus don't waste your time and their at the interview and instead can invite someone else.
Good luck.

 

[fightingspirit]

Okay, many people have told me that it is mission impossible, especially if I'm planning to go to a state university, because unfortunately, I cannot afford to go to a private school.
I have just got back from the GRE test and I've got 1200 (760 quant and 440 verbal), should I retake the exam to get higher scores?

My stats are as follows:
GPA 3.79 (Non USA school) (rank 1st/80)
TOEFL 265
GRE 1200
NBDE I and II to be taken in summer
2 years experience
2 scientific papers in progress, one of them specialized in orthodontics
a member in student council for 3 years
a member of the executive council of a royal fund for development for one year.

Would my scores in GRE and TOEFL compromise my chances as they are just above the required scores?!

I am planning to apply to the universities of Minnesota, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Illinois, Tennessee, Louisiana and Alabama. Do I seem to have good chances? and how should I sort these universities in the match application?

a professor once told me that visiting their university before applying might give me a better feeling on my chances of admission, what does that mean?

thanks a lot for your cooperation

so wait a minute, let me try to swallow that: you're a foreign grad and not only you wanna specialize, but you wanna do so in ortho. not only in ortho but you want an american ortho program.....????? IMHO, i think it's a little too much.... as a predent who does not understand the intricacies of matching and all of that, i have no idea about the possibilities of achieving all this and how to go about it; however, if i were an ortho program director at an american d-school, there is just no way in hell that i would take a foreigner over an american educated applicant. but then again, i am just a predent. ortho is a very desirable specialty, and american educated applicants, will have paid their dues big time by the time they get in. so you left out all the specialties and decided to go ortho? lol......

welll, good luck on that

 

[Maxillicious]

so wait a minute, let me try to swallow that: you're a foreign grad and not only you wanna specialize, but you wanna do so in ortho. not only in ortho but you want an american ortho program.....????? IMHO, i think it's a little too much.... as a predent who does not understand the intricacies of matching and all of that, i have no idea about the possibilities of achieving all this and how to go about it; however, if i were an ortho program director at an american d-school, there is just no way in hell that i would take a foreigner over an american educated applicant. but then again, i am just a predent. ortho is a very desirable specialty, and american educated applicants, will have paid their dues big time by the time they get in. so you left out all the specialties and decided to go ortho? lol......

welll, good luck on that

Its not as rare as you think. Programs accept foreign grads often.

 

[fightingspirit]

Its not as rare as you think. Programs accept foreign grads often.

actually, i did not say that it is rare. i am a predent and i dont know anything about this match business. like i said though, i would never accept a foreign applicant if i were the director, regardless of board scores and class rank. he/she can be ranked number one with a score of 100. still, sorry but there is a limit when it comes to limited spots in one of the most desirable specialties in dentistry. the U.S is already accepting foreign grads into dentistry and medicine, now foreign grads want ortho? what's next? a foreigner running for the presidency of the country?.....

you used the term "often"....i question that...

 

[Ramzi]

Thank you guys for your responses...

fightingspirit... Some programs dedicate a single position for a foreign student each year, and if I get higher scores and a profile that is better than yours then I deserve that position even if i'm not American.

Thank God you are not a program director!

cheers

 

[fightingspirit]

well, you're all set then..go for it

 

[DDSSlave]

There are far more qualified applicants than there are spots, so I think it's fair to say no one deserves to get into ortho. Whether you get interviews depends on how well you do on boards. If you get > 95 you should have a decent chance at getting some interviews. But it's difficult to say. I don't think anyone here knows enough foreign grads getting into ortho to form a reliable opinion. I can tell you I've heard a rumor that Oklahoma may be dropping its foreign spot. If you have the money, I'd definitely visit these programs to get a realistic idea if you have a chance. Also I'm a bit confused about your decision not to apply to private schools. Can't afford them? So what, who can? As a foreign grad are you not able to apply for private loans?

 

[NileBDS]

Okay, many people have told me that it is mission impossible, especially if I'm planning to go to a state university, because unfortunately, I cannot afford to go to a private school.
.........................
a professor once told me that visiting their university before applying might give me a better feeling on my chances of admission, what does that mean?

thanks a lot for your cooperation

Hey Ramzi ...
I think you would better be off taking your boards, getting into an advanced standing program first, get your DDS/DMD (never go for certificate programs), get all your recommendations in line, and THEN think about ortho.
As everyone else here has pointed, you have picked the kong of specialties, and having an overseas BDS or equivalent will not help much.
HOWEVER, I have seen several foreign grads get into OMFS, ortho and likewise specialities with their BDS's, but usually with several years of experience and/or an overseas MS under their belt to go with that.
Is your GPA an ECE or WES ? What school/country did you graduate from (yes, it makes a big difference) ?
Toefl is not bad, GRE is ok, experience seems good althoug not very relevant ... your best shot would be to aim for mid 90's on your baords (92+)...
Please take jpollei's advice. She will guide you best in regards to this issue, that is if she is willing to ofcourse.
Good Luck

 

[NileBDS]

... as a predent who does not understand the intricacies of matching and all of that ....

.
Right ?

... i have no idea about the possibilities of achieving all this and how to go about it ....

.
Right again ...

... if i were an ortho program director at an american d-school, there is just no way in hell that i would take a foreigner over an american educated applicant ...

That's why you are not.

... but then again, i am just a predent ...

Right again ...



Sorry for coming across as a total jackass, but there is no other way to do it.
It happens more frequent than you think ...

 

[fightingspirit]

.
Right ?

.
Sorry for coming across as a total jackass, but there is no other way to do it.
It happens more frequent than you think ...

what happens more frequent than i think?? ...and yes, you came across as a ------(fill the blank) 😀 it's all good though.....


NileBDS, how did you make it to the states? just curious....

 

[gryffindor]

Folks, it's all on the match website - www.natmatch.com/dentres
252 people matched a spot in ortho, 25 of those had "non-US dental school" degrees. I'm not sure if that statistic includes Canadians since their dental degrees are seen equivalent to US degrees. So the non-US people make up a very small amount of the ortho residents.

And yes, some programs do have a "mandatory" spot or two reserved for a foreign grad. I know in New York, Rochester has a spot, Buffalo has some, Montefiore has a spot, and I think NYU has taken foreign grads in the past.

If you get high board scores (like 95+), you may be considered more competitively. Of the schools you listed, I think Illinois has some foreign grad spots. Not sure about the rest.

 

[NileBDS]

what happens more frequent than i think??

Foreign grad's getting into ortho and other "highly competitive" specialties.
Read griffin04's post.

NileBDS, how did you make it to the states? just curious....

Foreign grads are not necessarily foreign nationals.
To answer your question, I was born and raised here.

 

[NileBDS]

Folks, it's all on the match website - www.natmatch.com/dentres
252 people matched a spot in ortho, 25 of those had "non-US dental school" degrees. I'm not sure if that statistic includes Canadians since their dental degrees are seen equivalent to US degrees. So the non-US people make up a very small amount of the ortho residents.

And yes, some programs do have a "mandatory" spot or two reserved for a foreign grad. I know in New York, Rochester has a spot, Buffalo has some, Montefiore has a spot, and I think NYU has taken foreign grads in the past.

If you get high board scores (like 95+), you may be considered more competitively. Of the schools you listed, I think Illinois has some foreign grad spots. Not sure about the rest.

Thanks for the input Griffin.
That sounds about right.

 

[fightingspirit]

Foreign grad's getting into ortho and other "highly competitive" specialties.
Read griffin04's post.


Foreign grads are not necessarily foreign nationals.
To answer your question, I was born and raised here.

oh i see......so you went to an egyptian d-school to save bucks or some other reason?

i studied the whole match website last night and i was shocked by the stats. it really seems doable to get into ortho as a foreign grad. 26 per year is good. now i understand why people like the OP can dream about it. SDNers give you the impression that it is next to impossible to get into Ortho therefore, i replied the way i did to the OP.

you guys should totally go for it if it's your cup of tea...... 👍

 

[gryffindor]

oh i see......so you went to an egyptian d-school to save bucks or some other reason?

i studied the whole match website last night and i was shocked by the stats. it really seems doable to get into ortho as a foreign grad. 26 per year is good. now i understand why people like the OP can dream about it. SDNers give you the impression that it is next to impossible to get into Ortho therefore, i replied the way i did to the OP.

you guys should totally go for it if it's your cup of tea...... 👍

The website says 25 graduates of "non-US dental schools" got in. If this group of 25 includes Canadian dental students, then the actual number of foreign students getting in is much smaller.

Also, the "reserved" foreign spot at those ortho programs who have it can be offered outside of the match so the stats aren't everything.

 

[Ramzi]

I know for sure that it is soooooo difficult to get into an ortho program in the usa, but what I wanna know is what can enhance my chances... let's say that i get mid nineties in NBDE part I, is that enough to apply or should I take part II as well?
I'm heading off to the states in July to take part I, can I take part II right after taking part I? is it easy to find a vacancy in the testing centers in July?

 

[hind]

The website says 25 graduates of "non-US dental schools" got in.

Where do you find these numbers on Match site? Do you have to login? I can't login, as last year I withdrawn from match as I had no interviews. Do u think it is a good idea to withdraw from match if you dont have interviews?
Thanks

 

[smilemp]

Okay, many people have told me that it is mission impossible, especially if I'm planning to go to a state university, because unfortunately, I cannot afford to go to a private school.
I have just got back from the GRE test and I've got 1200 (760 quant and 440 verbal), should I retake the exam to get higher scores?

My stats are as follows:
GPA 3.79 (Non USA school) (rank 1st/80)
TOEFL 265
GRE 1200
NBDE I and II to be taken in summer
2 years experience
2 scientific papers in progress, one of them specialized in orthodontics
a member in student council for 3 years
a member of the executive council of a royal fund for development for one year.

Would my scores in GRE and TOEFL compromise my chances as they are just above the required scores?!

I am planning to apply to the universities of Minnesota, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Illinois, Tennessee, Louisiana and Alabama. Do I seem to have good chances? and how should I sort these universities in the match application?

a professor once told me that visiting their university before applying might give me a better feeling on my chances of admission, what does that mean?

thanks a lot for your cooperation

Hye,
I think U have great grades, you should try NYU ......they take a lot off foreign grades.....from what I know 4 out off the 10 residents forthe class starting this september are foreign grades.....
try it out
GOOD LUCK

 

[Tarheel]

1. Some of the spots reserved for foreigners are arranged through contracts with particular countries who provide funding and stipulations that the graduate return to their native country upon completion of training. (Eq when I interviewed at Illinois they told me they take 3 students from the middle east each year whose native countries pay $90,000 per year for their training.)

2. As a foreigner you will be less likely to qualify for in-state tuition and thus likely pay the out-of-state tuition which will be comparable to a private school. It is my understanding that most tuition waivers and stipends for ortho require that you be a graduate of an accredited DDS/DMD program in the US/Canada.

Good luck! It is an awesome field!

 

[gary_ruska]

GR knows that Harvard's ortho program takes lots of foreign grads. Then again, Harvard's ortho program also blows.

 

[NileBDS]

GR knows that Harvard's ortho program takes lots of foreign grads. Then again, Harvard's ortho program also blows.

Are you referring to yourself as a third party ?

 

[silichillivanil]

Sorry, I just had to comment the following:
as a predent who does not understand the intricacies of matching and all of that...
as a PREDENT maybe you should reconsider even participating in this conversation...
...if i were an ortho program director at an american d-school, there is just no way in hell that i would take a foreigner over an american educated applicant...
ever considered that SOME contries actually have a really great educational system... I have had some friends doing dental school in the US AFTER having studied here in Germany, and really EVERYBODY agrees that dental school over there was WAY easier than here....

but then again, i am just a predent.
exactly, so what are you doing here anyway??

Plus: Some of my peers at Uni got into ortho in the states all right, even with a NBDE of little above 70 and a bad GRE... I guess foreigners are the ones that bring money to the dental school (additional to a little flair of internationality) 🙂

 

[flapaTron]

thumbs up for a 5-year-old thread revive. 👍