advice on asking for money for research?

[drslc134]

Ok...here's my situation...when I did research at a lab at a local university in high school, I worked as a research assistant uncompensated...

I'm now a sophomore (almost junior-to-be), and for this summer, I sent an email to a professor near home about his research and if I might be able to work in his lab in the summer on a part-time basis while prepping for the August MCAT. He said he couldn't but said he'd forward my inquiries to some of his colleagues...

One graciously agreed, and said that I would be welcome to work with him, though the tone I'm not sure what to make of it...the contents of the email omitting the greeting and professor's name said:

Hi _____,

If you are interested in helping in my lab for 4-5 hours a day, we are happy to have you.

You would probably help others with their projects, and if something arises that you feel comfortable in pursuing on your own, you could try to do something independent.

Best wishes,

It sounds good, but here are my issues:
1) I need to clarify what "help others with their projects" means, since I don't want to be lightly working on a number of different postdoc's projects, doing random protocols...so I will definitely be in contact with the prof and we'll work out goals...this isn't a big issue...the big issue is...
2) I'd like to get paid for this job (as well as contribute to the research)...this is where I'd like most of your guys' help...

How would you respond directly to this email mentioning if you were in my position and I would like a ____ stipend or reasonable by-hour rate without turning him off or risking my chances of him saying "no money" and putting both of us in awkward positions?

Also, any responses/advice in general on this situation and on prof/student relations?

Thanks!

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[Flopotomist]

As somebody that works full time in research, here is my advice:

Identify what your priorities are. If you want to make a little money over the summer - get a summer job that isn't research OR

Do research on a volunteer basis.

Why do I say this? Remember that although you will be helping out in the lab, the supply demand/curve on this one favors the lab. There are hundreds of pre-meds trying to get a foot in the door somewhere over the summer. If you go asking for money AND a flexible schedule AND the ability to select what project you are involved in, you will be considered too "needy."

Just my thoughts.

 

[S_Talos]

I was in a very similar situation: I got a job in a lab at the start of my junior year which I think has been really helpful. From the sound of it I think you've got a good shot at getting some paid research experience.

It's tough for a PI to offer an independent project to an undergrad without even really knowing them yet. He did say that he would consider giving you a project if your up to it, but that's probably several months away.

I think you've got a good opportunity to get into a lab and learn whats going on in there by "helping others with their projects". All this means is you'll be learning the techniques and the area of the lab while working on someone elses projects. This can be a very good thing if you make a significant contribution on multiple projects you may end up on multiple pubs. Patience is a MUST though, pubs don't come over night.

You can either capitalize on this by learning as much as you can and eventually getting your own project or you could demand your own project now which I think would definitely turn them off. No one can exactly walk into a lab off the street (which is what being an undergrad is like) and pump out an independent project, thats just totally unrealistic. The only way that would be remotely possible is if the PI has a project on the drawing board and just needs you to do the grunt work. Usually those projects would be given to post-docs anyway since they already know what they're doing.

Second, I would just e-mail him up front and express interest and excitement and then just go ahead and ask "Will this be a paid position?" You have no obligation to explain this question. I think for a long-term 20-25 hr per week you can expect anywhere from $9.00 an hour and up. If he says no, then you go from there and look for another position that will pay. Simple as that.

So good luck!

 

[relentless11]

I agree with Flopotomist. I'm all about funding dedicated undergrads:

1) Money is ALWAYS limited, because PI's need to fund more important things like grad students, post-docs and of course the actual research (supplies, etc).

2) The undergrad volunteer turnover rate is high. There are those that stay for the long haul but based on my experience, students are done with research after the quarter or semester. Not everyone is cut out to do research. Thats understandable.

3) There is essentially an endless supply of free labor (e.g.: the entire undergraduate student body). Although I like my undergrads, I know if one leaves, I can always find two more to replace them. Most are expecting to do this for free. I don't mean offense to anyone, but this topic reminds me of this picture ( http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/achievement.jpg )

Anyway, my suggestion is to probe around, if you find a lab that pays. AWESOME But don't be discouraged if you can't find any. As Flopotomist said, you're prolly going to have to build up a good reputation (long-term) with a lab for them to pay you. The other alternative would be to find a summer research internship. Some of those are paid.

 

[drslc134]

Thanks to all for the replys!

I'd like to clear one aspect up, though...
1. This will likely be a mid-June to mid-September thing (and perhaps if all things seem perfect, then maybe next Jun-Sept, too), but in all likelihood, that will be it. My goal is to find a place to be able to do my best given my hours and enhance my research experience in a new environment and in a subject I'm greatly interested in.

With that in mind, I'm not sure how I came across in my first post, but I didn't mean to say I "wanted my own project." I have had 4 years of research experience while in high school, and had some degree of independence in the last year and a half, but even then I realize that it's still very much a collaborative effort and your project comes from the goals of lab, PI and sometimes even post-doc. What I am asking is, I want to suggest that I be able to work not necessarily independently, but on a particular research aim, not as I mentioned, conducting random protocols (most of which I will likely have done before, though I will need some refresher). While I formulate how to say this, I was wondering if anyone had any input on effectively, yet not overbearingly presenting this...

On the other side of this discussion...As I mentioned, I greatly appreciate the opportunity this guy's giving me (given the fact that he has nothing on me besides an introductory email and a C.V. and he knows this will not be the only thing I'm concentrating on this summer). But, is the general consensus that: I shouldn't even broach the subject of getting any compensation for the summer?
If you believe this to be situationally inappropriate, then I'd appreciate that comment. If you believe that it wouldn't hurt to try, I'd like to hear some suggestions as to what kind of language/strategy I should use so that after this offer, 1) he won't feel uncomfortable saying no, 2) maximize my chances of a yes answer (MCAT class is expensive!) ...

...a side note: whether the money comes through or not, I most likely will be working in this lab, since its in the area that I really have an excitement for, and the PI seems nice enough...money (even a tiny, little bit) couldn't hurt and would definitely help, though!

Again, I appreciate the comments and would appreciate any further input from both those who've already posted and those who newly read this thread! Thanks!

 

[S_Talos]

I agree somewhat with Flopotomist and relentless, that if you're only there for a few months then it would be difficult to find a paid position. On the other hand, where I work I have never seen any undergrad that had to work for free. Frankly, if you're doing 20-25 hours of work per week as a technician you deserve to be compensated. If you plan on just hanging out there while you study then don't waste their time by asking for payment.

Money may be tight for some labs, but if they can't afford to pay you then I would stay far away. If they don't have funding for a new technician, do you really think theres important work being left undone? Besides, the stress of funding shortages could effect everything from the quality of the equipment to the attitude of the lab. Sure they might find someone to work for free, but most people know that you get what you pay for... All in all I would suggest holding out for a paying position that will appreciate what you have to offer. Don't sell yourself short.

P.S. You might have missed it in my last post, but I suggested to go for it and ask him about getting paid, it's not rude to do so.

 

[relentless11]

Thanks to all for the replys!

I'd like to clear one aspect up, though...
1. This will likely be a mid-June to mid-September thing (and perhaps if all things seem perfect, then maybe next Jun-Sept, too), but in all likelihood, that will be it. My goal is to find a place to be able to do my best given my hours and enhance my research experience in a new environment and in a subject I'm greatly interested in.

With that in mind, I'm not sure how I came across in my first post, but I didn't mean to say I "wanted my own project." I have had 4 years of research experience while in high school, and had some degree of independence in the last year and a half, but even then I realize that it's still very much a collaborative effort and your project comes from the goals of lab, PI and sometimes even post-doc. What I am asking is, I want to suggest that I be able to work not necessarily independently, but on a particular research aim, not as I mentioned, conducting random protocols (most of which I will likely have done before, though I will need some refresher). While I formulate how to say this, I was wondering if anyone had any input on effectively, yet not overbearingly presenting this...

On the other side of this discussion...As I mentioned, I greatly appreciate the opportunity this guy's giving me (given the fact that he has nothing on me besides an introductory email and a C.V. and he knows this will not be the only thing I'm concentrating on this summer). But, is the general consensus that: I shouldn't even broach the subject of getting any compensation for the summer?
If you believe this to be situationally inappropriate, then I'd appreciate that comment. If you believe that it wouldn't hurt to try, I'd like to hear some suggestions as to what kind of language/strategy I should use so that after this offer, 1) he won't feel uncomfortable saying no, 2) maximize my chances of a yes answer (MCAT class is expensive!) ...

...a side note: whether the money comes through or not, I most likely will be working in this lab, since its in the area that I really have an excitement for, and the PI seems nice enough...money (even a tiny, little bit) couldn't hurt and would definitely help, though!

Again, I appreciate the comments and would appreciate any further input from both those who've already posted and those who newly read this thread! Thanks!

It definately does not hurt to try. I hope I didn't come off as implying that. Just be prepared for more no's rather than yes's, and probably a few maybe's.

In my opinion, if I have an outstanding undergrad, I will make every effort to get them paid, even if they never asked. Although I am only a lowly grad student, my suggest carries some weight with my PI. I am his eyes and ears in terms of the student researchers. So "win the hearts and minds" of the lab, and you will get pretty far. Some PI's may not be aware of your hardwork, since they're busy or what not...which is understandable. But the grad students are there with you (and post-docs), so they may serve as an intermediate to get you funded someday.

Anyway, give it a try. If it doesn't work out, and you like the lab, just stay and show them what you've got so one day they can look into paying you. Or go find another lab.