Advice on Dental School Loans and Debt

[ktboulevard]

I need some advice, reassurance, or validation. I realized dental school was expensive from the get go but did not worry about it until I got accepted recently into a private dental school that is around $93,000 a year for tuition alone. I am still waiting to hear of other offers though so I may not have to worry about this in the future - fingers crossed. Here's my plan. After dental school, I want to immediately specialize in orthodontics so I can easily transition from dental school to a specialty. I originally planned on doing the NHSC so I could pay off my loans, but I feel that it is not an option anymore due to me wanting to go directly from dental school to ortho. I wouldn't have a problem serving in it if I did not have to go directly into NHSC after dental school, but I want to get to my goal as quickly as possible without any gaps so that I can actually have a family one day (since female eggs aren't viable forever) and spend time with them. I also feel that I would be discouraged going back to do a residency program and burned out after serving.

My family wants me to sit out another year if I don't get into a much cheaper school. For me, I am determined to go to school this cycle because I don't think I have it in me to sit out another year. There's just no way. Yes, I am determined and stubborn for that according to them. I know that I have a long life ahead of me being 22 years old. Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to wish my life away. If anything, I am trying to prepare for the future instead of basing everything off of dentistry. I've seen too many female dentists miss out on life because they based everything off of their career. I don't want that because there is so much more to life than dentistry. Yes, I understand it is a profession that deserves great attention, but I have also seen happy female dentists who actually have a life outside of dentistry. With that being said, I want to make sure I make smart choices so that I won't be drowning in debt forever and give my future family financial stability and time.

So, here are my questions:
1.) Are there any other sources that could help me financially that won't set my time back?
2.) What's a rough estimate of when dental students who specialize pay back all of their loans?
3.) Is anyone else worried about this or is it just me?
4.) How do most dentists/orthodontists climb out of debt within a good timeframe?

Also, if anyone knows of any great articles or bios that deal with a similar situation to this, feel free to share it. Thanks for reading guys

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[Ryxndek]

Nah don’t worry, you’re not alone. I would still wait on the cheaper schools, I got into my state school but that’s still gonna cost me around 360k pre interest. But, lock in the first acceptance at the very least just in case. At the end of the day, this is your career. Unless your family is helping pay for school, this is your financial decision. I wouldn’t wait a year because if you turn down multiple acceptances you are pretty much blacklisted from those schools from applying again. So you’re throwing schools out of your application list if you apply again.

You can apply for scholarships after your D1 fall semester usually to help put a dent in some of the loans you have to take. But otherwise HPSP or NHSC are really your only other options for full tuition scholarships. I wouldn’t assume Ortho just yet, you can always specialize later. Getting tuition paid for is way more worth it IMO. Ortho is also super competitive and some programs are expensive…cough *Georgia*.

I think average payback is around 10-20 years. My dentist went to NYU and is paying back over 20 years. Think he came out around 550-600k last I asked. Graduated in early 2010s. He’s got a few more years to go. Specialists could be more if you go to an expensive speciality school or buy a practice.

I'd say at the end of the day, paying back your loans is going to take time and energy. I plan on working like a dog and nailing my loans for 3-5 years after graduating and living like I am now, but with a little more responsibility lol. I think I could get away with living off 50k a year and throwing the rest of my income at my loans. I've been told that working 4 days a week and living like a dentist without loans is how you have to pay back over a longer period of time. Were young, and we have time, so working 5-6 days a week for a few years to make a little extra to get the loans done will make us more financially stable in a shorter length of time. We just have to commit to it and not give in to suddenly going from no money to 6 figures overnight and spending it all on a cushy lifestyle when we're drowned in debt after graduating.

 

[Blueshirts]

Ortho programs generally do not pay, fyi

 

[axiumgod]

Apply for NHSC and go to ortho residency after serving your commitment. You haven’t even started dental school so there’s a good chance you’ll change your mind on specializing in the end anyways.

 

[OncePreDent]

Ortho programs generally do not pay, fyi

Yeah sadly it's one of the only specialties that doesn't pay; I would plan for ortho to add anywhere from $150-$500k debt for ortho. Unlike pediatric dentistry which will pay you $60k a year during the residency. Does anyone know why ortho residency is so expensive?

 

[Ryxndek]

Yeah sadly it's one of the only specialties that doesn't pay; I would plan for ortho to add anywhere from $150-$500k debt for ortho. Unlike pediatric dentistry which will pay you $60k a year during the residency. Does anyone know why ortho residency is so expensive?

Probably because so many people want to be an orthodontist, they make good money, and they do more treatment planning than actual treatment themselves so they are able to work on a lot of cases == high volume, from talking to an orthodontist. Ortho makes a lot, so I'm guessing schools are capitalizing on the desire to be an orthodontist and the fact that they make a lot in general.

 

[OncePreDent]

Probably because so many people want to be an orthodontist, they make good money, and they do more treatment planning than actual treatment themselves so they are able to work on a lot of cases == high volume, from talking to an orthodontist. Ortho makes a lot, so I'm guessing schools are capitalizing on the desire to be an orthodontist and the fact that they make a lot in general.

Yeah makes sense; most of the orthos I have talked to have said the same thing, do pediatric dentistry or stick with GD. I actually haven't heard of an ortho recommending ortho weirdly (I've shadowed or talked to 10+). But ortho is my favorite specialty, so if I specialize that's probably what I will do. That or pedio haha

 

[OncePreDent]

Probably because so many people want to be an orthodontist, they make good money, and they do more treatment planning than actual treatment themselves so they are able to work on a lot of cases == high volume, from talking to an orthodontist. Ortho makes a lot, so I'm guessing schools are capitalizing on the desire to be an orthodontist and the fact that they make a lot in general.

Ryxndek are you interested in specializing at all or sticking with GD (sorry ik kinda off topic)

 

[Ryxndek]

Ryxndek are you interested in specializing at all or sticking with GD (sorry ik kinda off topic)

I've thought about maybe dental anesthesiology or dental sleep medicine. Otherwise probably GD. DA requires CBSE now so not really interested in studying for that outside of school but we shall see how much drive I have lmao. Dental sleep medicine just requires a lot of CE credits so it would be more stuff after graduating and working full time, which is more desirable for me.

I don't know if I have the patience for peds, I thought about oral surgery but frankly, it takes a different breed of student to grind through 80+hrs/wk of oral surgery residency for 4-6 years. Anyone capable of that deserves an insane amount of respect, I don't think I could do it.

 

[ktboulevard]

Nah don’t worry, you’re not alone. I would still wait on the cheaper schools, I got into my state school but that’s still gonna cost me around 360k pre interest. But, lock in the first acceptance at the very least just in case. At the end of the day, this is your career. Unless your family is helping pay for school, this is your financial decision. I wouldn’t wait a year because if you turn down multiple acceptances you are pretty much blacklisted from those schools from applying again. So you’re throwing schools out of your application list if you apply again.

You can apply for scholarships after your D1 fall semester usually to help put a dent in some of the loans you have to take. But otherwise HPSP or NHSC are really your only other options for full tuition scholarships. I wouldn’t assume Ortho just yet, you can always specialize later. Getting tuition paid for is way more worth it IMO. Ortho is also super competitive and some programs are expensive…cough *Georgia*.

I think average payback is around 10-20 years. My dentist went to NYU and is paying back over 20 years. Think he came out around 550-600k last I asked. Graduated in early 2010s. He’s got a few more years to go. Specialists could be more if you go to an expensive speciality school or buy a practice.

I'd say at the end of the day, paying back your loans is going to take time and energy. I plan on working like a dog and nailing my loans for 3-5 years after graduating and living like I am now, but with a little more responsibility lol. I think I could get away with living off 50k a year and throwing the rest of my income at my loans. I've been told that working 4 days a week and living like a dentist without loans is how you have to pay back over a longer period of time. Were young, and we have time, so working 5-6 days a week for a few years to make a little extra to get the loans done will make us more financially stable in a shorter length of time. We just have to commit to it and not give in to suddenly going from no money to 6 figures overnight and spending it all on a cushy lifestyle when we're drowned in debt after graduating.

Yeah that's what I am trying to get my family to understand, and I'm so glad someone finally gets it! My parents say that my grandparents have "a lot" of money for me to use for dental school, but I'm not sure what "a lot" is because they won't tell me. Weird... I know.

The thing is that I can't see myself doing just general dentistry. I know it's super early for me to assume, but I know in the long run that I will be more happy with a specialty like ortho because I love working with teens (I coach which is why I say that). I will say that you're right - my mind is subject to change later, but I hope it doesn't. It's definitely competitive. You're right about that!

Oh that's honestly not terrible! I also feel like with specialties that you will be able to make that back in the same amount of time a general dentists since ortho's average salary is $100,000 more than general dentistry. I could be wrong though.

I certainly do not expect to be living lavish anytime soon after graduating dental school. I'm used to saving every cent I can lol. I have the same mindset as you. I'll work like a dog to pay it back for sure along with some side hustles. I hate owing any kind of money and luckily didn't have to borrow any money during undergrad so that's a plus.

I totally respect your advice! Thank you for giving your input!

 

[ktboulevard]

Yeah sadly it's one of the only specialties that doesn't pay; I would plan for ortho to add anywhere from $150-$500k debt for ortho. Unlike pediatric dentistry which will pay you $60k a year during the residency. Does anyone know why ortho residency is so expensive?

Wow that's sad. I'm glad you pointed that out though! I had no clue. That's honestly messed up...

 

[Ryxndek]

Yeah that's what I am trying to get my family to understand, and I'm so glad someone finally gets it! My parents say that my grandparents have "a lot" of money for me to use for dental school, but I'm not sure what "a lot" is because they won't tell me. Weird... I know.

The thing is that I can't see myself doing just general dentistry. I know it's super early for me to assume, but I know in the long run that I will be more happy with a specialty like ortho because I love working with teens (I coach which is why I say that). I will say that you're right - my mind is subject to change later, but I hope it doesn't. It's definitely competitive. You're right about that!

Oh that's honestly not terrible! I also feel like with specialties that you will be able to make that back in the same amount of time a general dentists since ortho's average salary is $100,000 more than general dentistry. I could be wrong though.

I certainly do not expect to be living lavish anytime soon after graduating dental school. I'm used to saving every cent I can lol. I have the same mindset as you. I'll work like a dog to pay it back for sure along with some side hustles. I hate owing any kind of money and luckily didn't have to borrow any money during undergrad so that's a plus.

I totally respect your advice! Thank you for giving your input!

I would just assume that "a lot" really isn't that much. I've heard stories of grandparents giving inheritances back to people and they think it's a lot and it's really not as much due to inflation and just how expensive dental school is. Personally just go with your gut, I really wouldn't waste the time and effort you put into this cycle to throw it away to try and get into a cheaper school, you may screw yourself. Your parents will come around and eventually understand where you're coming from.

I mean I would love if my parents would help, but it's a lot of money and they've done a lot for me already, and I'm super grateful for that. But I'm trying to be more financially independent of my parents, so if they help me or not, I know I'll still be able to go to school. At the end of the day, it's yours and my degree, not theirs! You've worked hard, now capitalize on your education!

 

[charlestweed]

So, here are my questions:
1.) Are there any other sources that could help me financially that won't set my time back?

Yes, there are programs that pay the residents and there are 2yr public programs that charge low out-of-state tuitions. But these programs are super hard to get in because everyone wants to attend them. Therefore, you have to work hard and do things that most dental students hate to do.... such as doing research (and publishing it), studying hard to earn good grades. With great stats + a published research, you get to pick where you want to attend.

Marry a guy who has a stable job and good work ethic like you. With his good income, it will be less of a burden on you when you pay back your own debt while trying to support your family at the same time. You can find such person from attending several health clubs that are offered at your school. That’s how I found my wife. Make sure you both fully understand each other’s financial situation before getting married. Debts and financial stress are the leading causes of divorce.

2.) What's a rough estimate of when dental students who specialize pay back all of their loans?

It depends on how much you make, how hard you are willing to work, and how good you are at communicating with the general dentists (you need their referrals ). If you want a more happy life outside of dentistry and decide to work less, then expect to be in debt for the next 2-3 decades. The income difference between working 6 days vs 4 days/wk can easily be $150-200k/year (based on the average pay of $1500/day for a new grad ortho). Ideally, your annual income should be at least half as much as your total student loan debt amount.

3.) Is anyone else worried about this or is it just me?

Yes, I worried about my debt when I was your age. And my debt (20 years ago) was only 1/5 of what you will owe. That’s why I worked 6 days/wk right after my ortho residency.

4.) How do most dentists/orthodontists climb out of debt within a good timeframe?

Work hard and spend less than we make. That’s the only way. You are responsible for your own life. You can’t rely on someone else….the government, your mom, you grandparents etc. Always assume worst case scenario for every possible situation....and you will come out way ahead of your colleagues.

In summary, the harder you work now, the greater the reward you will earn later on. Study hard while you are still in school. Work hard right after graduation when you are still young/healthy and have more time/energy to do so. If you want happy life outside of dentistry, you must first have to pay off all your debts (or at least get the debt amount under control). Forget about the expensive meals outside of home and oversea trips. You are not supposed to take vacation when you are in debt.

“Live like no one else, so you can later live and give like no one else”. Dave Ramsey

 

[Mr.Smile12]

First: congratulations on your A. Maybe you'll have another option and figure out finances there, but for now let's just deal with this one school. Don't back out of an A; you'll never know if you can get another A on a reapp.

All the dental schools and the industry have become very sensitive to the issue of student debt, and dental school is much more challenging than medical school student debt. Work closely with your financial aid office and understand the importance of trying to apply for as many small scholarships as you can. (Think of them as investors for your career and future practice.) A few hundred or a thousand from a small charity or non-profit group can help pay a part of the loupes you will want to get, a computer upgrade, a subscription to a meal kit, etc. You would be surprised with the help of your family connections (maybe faith-based or heritage-based affinity groups) about being able to ask for and get a thousand dollars here and there.

Read up or go to the ADEA website and your own school website regarding debt management. Go for NHSC or any public service scholarship/training opportunities to help lower that debt number. Choose a specialty that you would love working 6 days a week for.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I realized dental school was expensive from the get go but did not worry about it until I got accepted

Predents, the insane tuition will not come down until you all stop applying to these absurdly expensive schools! I would never have applied to this school to begin with.

After dental school, I want to immediately specialize in orthodontics

It’s competitive. What if you don’t get in? Then what? Ortho will very easily add $100,000 to $300,000 to your student loan balance, maybe more. You’re going to owe $650,000+ for dental school, and now you want to owe $800,000 to $900,000 to become an orthodontist?! If you wanted to pay off $850,000 in 20 years, your monthly payment will be $6,500! And remember, you’ll be paying that with after tax money. You’ll have to earn $100,000 a year just to cover your student loans. How much is everything else in life going to cost you?

I've seen too many female dentists miss out on life because they based everything off of their career.

With the amount of debt you’re possibly going to have, your career is going to have to take a much bigger role in your life than you’d think or like.

The thing is that I can't see myself doing just general dentistry.

If you cannot see yourself doing general dentistry, absolutely do not go to dental school!

I certainly do not expect to be living lavish anytime soon

Good, because you won’t.

Sorry for the strong dose of reality. But you seem to not fully understand what you’re getting yourself into here. It’s going to take you decades to dig yourself out of this.

Big Hoss

 

[PerioDont]

Predents, the insane tuition will not come down until you all stop applying to these absurdly expensive schools! I would never have applied to this school to begin with.


It’s competitive. What if you don’t get in? Then what? Ortho will very easily add $100,000 to $300,000 to your student loan balance, maybe more. You’re going to owe $650,000+ for dental school, and now you want to owe $800,000 to $900,000 to become an orthodontist?! If you wanted to pay off $850,000 in 20 years, your monthly payment will be $6,500! And remember, you’ll be paying that with after tax money. You’ll have to earn $100,000 a year just to cover your student loans. How much is everything else in life going to cost you?


With the amount of debt you’re possibly going to have, your career is going to have to take a much bigger role in your life than you’d think or like.


If you cannot see yourself doing general dentistry, absolutely do not go to dental school!


Good, because you won’t.

Sorry for the strong dose of reality. But you seem to not fully understand what you’re getting yourself into here. It’s going to take you decades to dig yourself out of this.

Big Hoss

couldn't agree with you more on every point.

I know a female dentist she has 2 young babies. her husband makes a good income in six figures plus, but it is not enough to cover her 500k+ in loans.

She literally just works so she can pay her loans. doesn't contribute anything to expenses. She hates going to work every day and missing her time with her young kids she will never get back

 

[charlestweed]

She literally just works so she can pay her loans.

I was like her too. I had worked very hard so I could pay off all my loans. First, they were the student loans (paid them off in 5 years). Then, it was my first rental property…then, the second rental property….then, the third rental property. And finally, I paid off my primary home’s mortgage when I was 49. That’s 20 years of hard work (I started working as an ortho when I was 29). Now at 51, even being debt-free, I still work 4.5 days/week.

Have I missed out anything for working so hard in all these years? Nope. I have a loving wife, who has been a wonderful mother to our kids. Nothing beats having a happy marriage. Am I happy? Oh yes, very happy. That's why I keep on coming here to say nice things about this wonderful profession.

Debt had motivated my wife and me to work harder than we ever would if debt demands were not hanging over our head. I am glad that neither my wife nor I have rich parents….and that we had to take out loans for our own education, for buying/setting up our practices, for buying houses etc. Hard work has taught us many good life lessons.

She hates going to work every day and missing her time with her young kids she will never get back

I haven’t yet met a person who says he/she enjoys going to work every day. I don’t hate working but I don’t enjoy going to work every day either. It can’t be fun when you have to rely on the alarm clock to get you out of bed to go to work…when you have to assume some work related responsibilities…when you face the possibility of getting a malpractice lawsuit….when you have to hear patients’ complaints (even when you didn't do anything wrong)…when you have to manage your staff etc. That’s why it’s important to work as hard as you can to get out of debt ASAP, when you are still young/healthy and have no kids (or have kids but they are still very small).

 

[D1Bound]

Predents, the insane tuition will not come down until you all stop applying to these absurdly expensive schools! I would never have applied to this school to begin with.


It’s competitive. What if you don’t get in? Then what? Ortho will very easily add $100,000 to $300,000 to your student loan balance, maybe more. You’re going to owe $650,000+ for dental school, and now you want to owe $800,000 to $900,000 to become an orthodontist?! If you wanted to pay off $850,000 in 20 years, your monthly payment will be $6,500! And remember, you’ll be paying that with after tax money. You’ll have to earn $100,000 a year just to cover your student loans. How much is everything else in life going to cost you?


With the amount of debt you’re possibly going to have, your career is going to have to take a much bigger role in your life than you’d think or like.


If you cannot see yourself doing general dentistry, absolutely do not go to dental school!


Good, because you won’t.

Sorry for the strong dose of reality. But you seem to not fully understand what you’re getting yourself into here. It’s going to take you decades to dig yourself out of this.

Big Hoss

Fancy seeing you here

 

[D1Bound]

I am going to write this as I would advise a family member. I would take a step back, take a long pause, and look at this situation soberly. The decision your about to make will cause an incredible impact on your financial future.
From your post you want the following things: To become a doctor, to then become a specialized type of doctor, to do this quickly, to have a family, to have a life outside of dentistry. One thing in this equation that is going to put a strain on the last few points is money. If you go 500K deep for a DDS/DMD, this will be a gigantic hole to overcome. This dentistry thing is 100% your entire life at this point. That decision was made when you took the loans. It will require 50+ hour weeks of work and personal study/CE to produce enough dentistry for this debt. I have friends right now that are about to graduate that will step out into the world with this on their shoulders. So, you're starting into your late 20s, well, I'll just say it, impoverished. That SUCKS. You won't just "pay it back." You're going to feel it every step of the way, for years. Now let's add in Orthodontics. on top of half a million dollars for your DDS/DMD, it's possible that you may add another 100-300k. Looking at 600-900ish-k in debt total with accruing interest. That isn't a normal thing. Yes, dentists can make a lot of money. It is possible to pay it back, but at what cost? Is this really the cool thing to do? Why walk down this road just to sign yourself up to make payments on loans?

If you were my family member, I would want you to be happy. I want you to experience financial freedom, to have a family and enjoy time with children, and just generally to find fulfillment in life. I'm not saying to not go to dental school. If your family is going to help you pay for your dental school, then this changes the situation entirely. I'm just very concerned with the well being of young students who are taking on heaps of debt. I have this concern for you. I hope my post is helpful.

 

[2TH MVR]

Wow that's sad. I'm glad you pointed that out though! I had no clue. That's honestly messed up...

Some Ortho Hospital residencies pay a stipend. Very hard to get in unless you are lucky. Guess I was lucky 😏

 

[ktboulevard]

I am going to write this as I would advise a family member. I would take a step back, take a long pause, and look at this situation soberly. The decision your about to make will cause an incredible impact on your financial future.
From your post you want the following things: To become a doctor, to then become a specialized type of doctor, to do this quickly, to have a family, to have a life outside of dentistry. One thing in this equation that is going to put a strain on the last few points is money. If you go 500K deep for a DDS/DMD, this will be a gigantic hole to overcome. This dentistry thing is 100% your entire life at this point. That decision was made when you took the loans. It will require 50+ hour weeks of work and personal study/CE to produce enough dentistry for this debt. I have friends right now that are about to graduate that will step out into the world with this on their shoulders. So, you're starting into your late 20s, well, I'll just say it, impoverished. That SUCKS. You won't just "pay it back." You're going to feel it every step of the way, for years. Now let's add in Orthodontics. on top of half a million dollars for your DDS/DMD, it's possible that you may add another 100-300k. Looking at 600-900ish-k in debt total with accruing interest. That isn't a normal thing. Yes, dentists can make a lot of money. It is possible to pay it back, but at what cost? Is this really the cool thing to do? Why walk down this road just to sign yourself up to make payments on loans?

If you were my family member, I would want you to be happy. I want you to experience financial freedom, to have a family and enjoy time with children, and just generally to find fulfillment in life. I'm not saying to not go to dental school. If your family is going to help you pay for your dental school, then this changes the situation entirely. I'm just very concerned with the well being of young students who are taking on heaps of debt. I have this concern for you. I hope my post is helpful.

Thank you for this! I got a lot out of what you said and will definitely think about it thoroughly.

 

[Ivy.ch]

If you’re looking to pay back your loans in a reasonable amount of time before you have family, and you don’t want work and the loans to be a huge part of your life, I think specializing in orthodontics is the wrong move.

 

[askadds]

I have written about this may times on this forum. Advice should be coming from people in the field currently. Be very careful and make a decision you can live with. The reality of the situation is that dental incomes have been stagnant for the past 10+ years while reimbursements have been coming down while cost of tuition has increased and cost of doing business for dentists have increased. We may not be great at math but I hope you can see and realize what is happening to this profession.

Those on here that say "oh im gonna pay back my debt back in a few years by working like a dog" have no idea what they are talking about. They have never been faced with the daunting task of paying back 500k at a ridiculously high interest that starts accruing from day one the loan is dispersed. VAST MAJORITY of us on DT (who are the "gunners") do not recc this profession to our kids, friends etc etc because we have seen the decline in dentistry first hand. Dont forget, its not just the 500k student loan. Add in another 500k for the office. So essentially this career will put you back 1 million with interest. Some people argue well you dont need to have an office, reality is that unless you're making 350K+, you wont be able to service any of these loans and without your own office, very few dentists can get to that income level.

My goal in my posts are not to discourage you guys from becoming dentists but to inform you of the decisions you are making will change your life significantly and its not only financially. Take my wife as an example. She recently lost her mother tragically and has understandably checked out. Now because of the state of our profession, can she take 2 weeks off from running the practice? Tell me any other profession that will not allow for someone to heal after such an event. Reality is that most offices CAN NOT afford to take 2 weeks off out of the blue. Also consider benefits, PTO, 401k etc etc that comes into play which you will not have a DDS. Back in the day when the pay was at this level but relatively it was a good compared to the cost of living and doing business, you could get away with it. These days, not so much.

At the end of the day, go to the cheapest school possible if you ABSOLUTELY need to become a dentist.