advise for pharmacy student who is considering career in California

[LasagnaBoy]

Hi,

I read another person's post about the difficulty of finding a pharmacist job in Southern California, and I got kind of scared since I am an Illinois resident who is going to be a P1 this fall at an Illinois pharmacy school who is considering moving to California after pharmacy school to work as a pharmacist. Right now, San Francisco is where I have my eyes set on if I do move to Cali. My question is...how difficult is it to get either a retail or hospital job in the Bay area?

Also, does anyone have any advise on what I should do these next 4 years of pharmacy school that would increase my chances of finding a pharmacist position in California after graduation (whether it be residency, retail, or hospital)?

Thanks so much!

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[WVUPharm2007]

I just got an email from a headhunter offering many jobs in California. If I'd have known it might have done humanity some good, I wouldn't have deleted it. Chucks.

I wouldn't worry about it, with the population aging and California only having so many schools, I'm sure you'll find a job somewhere. Good luck with the cost-of-living out there.

 

[Keppra]

You could possibly start working for a major retail pharmacy company right now such as Walgreen's, CVS, Rite Aid, etc. and when the time comes to graduate, you could always ask to transfer out to the San Francisco region in your company. That is actually what I did and just today, I got an offer to work for the retail pharmacy company I've worked for in the last 4 years in southern California. I was pretty excited and happy, plus it's a nice area I will be going to. If you have any other questions, pls feel free to PM me.

 

[sdn1977]

LasagnaBoy,

As a P1, you have everything open to you - all the options. Now is what you're going to make of them.

If you truly are interested in coming to CA, start after your first term - either quarter or semester & get your intern license in CA & keep it acive the whole time you are in school.

If you get the opportunity to do an away roatation or elective in CA...take advantage of it. Both these circumstances give you opportunities to experience what goes on in this state & gives you an ability to have a CA LOR.

Have a widely varied intern experience during school. I don't mean "job hopping".....just take what comes available & do it for as long as is reasonable. It is not unreasonable to have 2 intern positions during your four years of school. Be sure to obtain an LOR or a committment to an LOR before you leave.

Take electives & during your required rotations.....really LEARN the material. Don't regurgitate it back - anyone can do that. We need pharmacists who are thoughtful & responsible at the same time.

Learn how to do ALL aspects of pharmacy - from pyxis fills to putting away the order. A good pharmacist knows what all the jobs are required to run an effective department & will empathize when one person's job is difficult & won't be afraid or "too full of him/herself" to jump into help when help is needed.

Finally - network. Join your student APhA & ASHP branches. If possible, meet people from CA. Get to know them, obtain their business cards & be willing to connect with them. If there is a committee which needs a student member - be that member.

Know exactly what the laws are for taking the board exams here. Don't get caught short on approvable intern hours or fingerprinting. Get that done so you can take the exam & move on.

When you do get here...be willing to work evenings, nights, weekends, holidays to start. You have to get in on the bottom & move up.

Good luck! We'll see you here in a few years

 

[happyface68]

LasagnaBoy,

As a P1, you have everything open to you - all the options. Now is what you're going to make of them.

If you truly are interested in coming to CA, start after your first term - either quarter or semester & get your intern license in CA & keep it acive the whole time you are in school.

If you get the opportunity to do an away roatation or elective in CA...take advantage of it. Both these circumstances give you opportunities to experience what goes on in this state & gives you an ability to have a CA LOR.

Have a widely varied intern experience during school. I don't mean "job hopping".....just take what comes available & do it for as long as is reasonable. It is not unreasonable to have 2 intern positions during your four years of school. Be sure to obtain an LOR or a committment to an LOR before you leave.

Take electives & during your required rotations.....really LEARN the material. Don't regurgitate it back - anyone can do that. We need pharmacists who are thoughtful & responsible at the same time.

Learn how to do ALL aspects of pharmacy - from pyxis fills to putting away the order. A good pharmacist knows what all the jobs are required to run an effective department & will empathize when one person's job is difficult & won't be afraid or "too full of him/herself" to jump into help when help is needed.

Finally - network. Join your student APhA & ASHP branches. If possible, meet people from CA. Get to know them, obtain their business cards & be willing to connect with them. If there is a committee which needs a student member - be that member.

Know exactly what the laws are for taking the board exams here. Don't get caught short on approvable intern hours or fingerprinting. Get that done so you can take the exam & move on.

When you do get here...be willing to work evenings, nights, weekends, holidays to start. You have to get in on the bottom & move up.

Good luck! We'll see you here in a few years

What exactly can we do with an intern license, and how do we maintain its activation throughout the 4 years?

 

[Priapism321]

What exactly can we do with an intern license, and how do we maintain its activation throughout the 4 years?

This is crazy, but you get to be an intern with an intern license. It actually gives you most privileges of a registered pharmacist, as long as you are performing all of these tasks under the supervision of one. The state where you attend pharmacy school should provide you with a license specific to that state that will remain valid for the entire four year curriculum.

If you wish to obtain one from another state, you just request the application materials from the state board of pharmacy. These are generally only good for a year, but you always have the option to renew it. I will say that California may be different, as they operate a little bit different than the rest of the country.

And, if you graduate pharmacy school, I am pretty sure Walgreens will let you submit blueprints along with the city and state where you'd like to work, and they will construct the building on the spot and deliver you to the pharmacy department via a private jet/limo service. It is not difficult to get a job in retail, no matter the state, if you can spell Walgreens when you finish up, you will be alright.

 

[sdn1977]

What exactly can we do with an intern license, and how do we maintain its activation throughout the 4 years?

It allows you to work here as an intern anytime during your school years & as long as you're enrolled in pharmacy school, it is valid for 6 years. So, if you want to come to work here during summers, you immediately have it available. To keep it active, stay in school & pay your money.

Once you graduate, your intern license stays active for 2 years during which time you are expected to take the CA licensing examinations.

If you fail the licensing examinations four times, they will reinstate the intern license for only 1 year after you take courses in a pharmacy school (I think you must repeat 6 months or so - I'd have to check that).

The state board of CA moves slow - slower than molasses at times! It can take 60-90 days to process an application. I just recently renewed my license & it took 90 days for processing & they just needed to see my signature that I'd completed my CE & cash my check. There used to be a staff in the state board offfice - I think now it is occupied by one troll & the rest are machines - j/king! (really though - no one will answer a telephone).

So.....time is not your friend if you graduate in May or June then want to come work here in July. Lets say you don't mind working as a tech rather than an intern. There are reasons why most retail chains prefer to hire interns rather than techs - altho interns are paid at a higher rate, their pay comes out of the central corporate budget - not a store budget....so on paper, it "costs" the stores nothing to hire an intern. As long as the pharmacy manager is one who can deal with interns, you can find a job most places.

For SF - you'll probably find a job in retail as a pharmacist pretty easily. But - you'll probably float for a year or so & your first full time job may be on the graveyard shift. As for cities around SF - Daly City, Pacifica, Marin, Berkeley...yeah - you can always find a job, but there are some places I wouldn't work for any money. You can find those on your own.

Hospitals are pretty saturated in SF - 100 very qualified graduates become immediately available every May. There are 3 new hospitals on the books to be built in SF - UCSF Women's, UCSF Children's & UCSF Cancer Center, but I doubt they'll be done in 4 years. For a hospital job, you really need to come with hospital experience & preferably some years in CA. We do have some laws which are a bit different from other states (tech check tech, etc) & if you come with some hospital experience as a student or a resident, plus are willing to work as a non-permanent float....you may be able to get on staff somewhere. Rarely will a position be advertised & filled from a public offering.

Finally - whew! long winded! You can always work on-call for an agency. Yesterday, I just received a letter wanting agency pharmacists. Their pay starts at $70/hr. I've never worked an agency, but for someone who doesn't know the area, the hospitals, the chains, etc...it gives you some freedom to find out where & who you want to work for without committing yourself.

Anyway....good luck!

 

[happyface68]

sdn1977, thanks for your thorough response.

on-call for an agency? how does that work? so I'm guessing that it cannot be a full-time job, right?

 

[sdn1977]

Yeah - it can be a full time job - just not full time at the same location. Although, as in most aspects of pharmacy, there are always exceptions.

The way an agency works is they have a group of pharmacists & technicians who have certain abilities - retail, hospital, peds, certain software exprience, IV's, chemo, etc... If a hospital, retail chain or rarely, an independent pharmacy needs to have a pharmacist or tech to cover a regular employee's day off or vacation & they don't have someone in their float pool - they go to an agency.

As a pharmacist or tech, you have the ability to say you'll work with this or that computer system, you'll or at this hospital but not that one, you'll work on Tues & Wed, but not Sat & Sun...lots of flexibility.

The down side for the employee are a few:
1. no stability - you might work a lot, you might not work for a week
2. no benefits, usually
3. you usually have to travel a lot
4. you take the bad with the good
5. you often have to take a job on short notice if you haven't worked in a bit
The up side is:
1. you get to see lots of practice settings
2. you get to walk away from a bad employment situation without repercussion
3. you get to take time off any time you want

The employment agency holds all your cards. If you get good reviews & they like you, you'll get placed. If you get on the bad side of someone, you won't get called. Sometimes, you'll get a long term placement in areas where they can't find a pharmacist - for my state that is the north coast.

They employer pays thru the nose for an agency person - usually one & 1/2 times what you're paid. You won't often get hired out of an agency since the contract states the employer must pay a release fee if an employer likes you. So...you'll usually have to be released from an agency for a year before you can get a job at one of the places you've worked.

Agency work is in all sorts of fields - nursing, dentistry, accounting, etc...

 

[LasagnaBoy]

Thanks sdn! I have a few more questions: for the California licensure exam, do you know the website where I can apply?

Do you think that getting an internship in California over the summer would be good?

Lastly (and this is diverging from the original topic), is it generally very necessary to use all of your summers in pharmacy school as time to get pharmacy-related experience? I ask because I want to go study abroad (I never had the chance as an undergrad). Since the pharmacy system is not the same in the country I want to visit as it is here in the states, I do not know how feasible it would be for me to do an internship in pharmacy over there. Assuming I can't find an internship over there in pharmacy, if I go there to do something totally different for one summer (such as teach English), would that be bad? I have this guilt that I should not be wasting any time once I begin pharmacy school to do anything that would diverge from pharmacy...

Thanks!

 

[sdn1977]

Thanks sdn! I have a few more questions: for the California licensure exam, do you know the website where I can apply?

Do you think that getting an internship in California over the summer would be good?

Lastly (and this is diverging from the original topic), is it generally very necessary to use all of your summers in pharmacy school as time to get pharmacy-related experience? I ask because I want to go study abroad (I never had the chance as an undergrad). Since the pharmacy system is not the same in the country I want to visit as it is here in the states, I do not know how feasible it would be for me to do an internship in pharmacy over there. Assuming I can't find an internship over there in pharmacy, if I go there to do something totally different for one summer (such as teach English), would that be bad? I have this guilt that I should not be wasting any time once I begin pharmacy school to do anything that would diverge from pharmacy...

Thanks!

To contact the CA state board of pharmacy - go to www.pharmacy.ca.gov. That will give you the links to where you need to go.

As for getting an internship in CA - sure, its good if you want to work here right after getting out of school. But - don't, get me wrong. Its not absolutely necessary. There are plenty of folks who move here & have never worked here. This actually sounds a bit like you. It sounds as though you don't have a necessary requirement for moving to a specific location & doing a specific thing. In that case, moving here & working float or relief can give you lots of flexibility & give you an opportunity to try to work for different employers & live in different places, particularly if you don't absolutely require a full-time income. CA is a huge state with geographic & cultural differences which may or may not suit you.

As for taking time off - you bet you can. Again - it all depends on how fast you want that job. After having done it, in the greater scheme of your life & career....one summer does not make a bit of difference.

I will give you a hint though....you might want to look into First Data Bank. They are the company which actually makes the data base for drugs, drug interactions & references & translates that information into many different languages. Their main office is in San Bruno, CA but they do have a site in England and other places in the US. Sometimes, when they're installing a system, they need people who are bi- or multilingual & who have pharmacy knowledge. Its worth a try anyway. They are also a major employer in N CA for foreign pharmacists who are not or cannot be licensed in the US since they use their bilingual pharmacy knowledge for translation.

Good luck - life is short. Enjoy it.

 

[cycloketocaine]

This thread makes me hungry for lasagna........

 

[Farmercyst]

This thread makes me hungry for lasagna........

yeah, and your avatar looks like you're ready for it too.

 

[DrugDealer]

I am also attending school out-of-state (MA) but have a CA intern license. Obtaining your intern license in CA is a little different than other states because you have to be fingerprinted for it, and that's a little tricky if you're not physically in CA. You can submit old-fashioned fingerprint cards, but I have heard that the board often rejects them. So, I chose to go back to CA over one of my breaks last year to have them done electronically at the police station. They instantly know if the prints are "good enough", plus you get a vacation! I recommend this, especially if you have never even been to the areas you are considering moving to.

 

[Keppra]

I am also attending school out-of-state (MA) but have a CA intern license. Obtaining your intern license in CA is a little different than other states because you have to be fingerprinted for it, and that's a little tricky if you're not physically in CA. You can submit old-fashioned fingerprint cards, but I have heard that the board often rejects them. So, I chose to go back to CA over one of my breaks last year to have them done electronically at the police station. They instantly know if the prints are "good enough", plus you get a vacation! I recommend this, especially if you have never even been to the areas you are considering moving to.

Really? I didn't know that they rejected the fingerprint cards that often. I'll have to see what the Board of Pharmacy says and if they reject it, I'll just have to go there in person. Did you just go to any police station and get fingerprints or were they LiveScan ones?

 

[wrek92]

Really? I didn't know that they rejected the fingerprint cards that often. I'll have to see what the Board of Pharmacy says and if they reject it, I'll just have to go there in person. Did you just go to any police station and get fingerprints or were they LiveScan ones?

I think LiveScan is the way to go if your local police has that technology available. Luckily, I only sent in 1 set of fingerprint cards and the CA Board of pharmacy accepted them. If you have to go the fingerprint card route, I would probably send 2 sets just in case.

HTH

 

[Farmercyst]

I think LiveScan is the way to go if your local police has that technology available. Luckily, I only sent in 1 set of fingerprint cards and the CA Board of pharmacy accepted them. If you have to go the fingerprint card route, I would probably send 2 sets just in case.

HTH

LiveScan is definitely the way to go if you can. I was surprised how easy it was, and clean .

 

[DrugDealer]

Really? I didn't know that they rejected the fingerprint cards that often. I'll have to see what the Board of Pharmacy says and if they reject it, I'll just have to go there in person. Did you just go to any police station and get fingerprints or were they LiveScan ones?

LiveScan. They pharmacy board has a list of the sites on their website. Some places you need to make an appointment for, others are walk-in.

 

[Keppra]

I'm not all that great with technology, but is LiveScan the one where they roll your fingerprints on a glass pad in front of a monitor? Then the fingerprints appear on the monitor and you can print the fingerprints onto a card?

 

[gaku]

I'm not all that great with technology, but is LiveScan the one where they roll your fingerprints on a glass pad in front of a monitor? Then the fingerprints appear on the monitor and you can print the fingerprints onto a card?

They will roll your fingerprints on a glass pad and that is it. You are free to go after that.

 

[DrugDealer]

They will roll your fingerprints on a glass pad and that is it. You are free to go after that.

Yup. That's why I said they were electronic and you instantly knew if they were "good enough." You don't print them on a card. I think the person that rolls them will fill out some section of your intern license form so that the board knows your LIveScan ID# or something.

 

[38ctk]

I'm looking to work in California once I graduate too. Thanks for all the 411 sdn1977. I'm starting my third year next year and wanted to do all/most of my rotations in california. Is looking into rotations this summer too early?

 

[sdn1977]

I'm looking to work in California once I graduate too. Thanks for all the 411 sdn1977. I'm starting my third year next year and wanted to do all/most of my rotations in california. Is looking into rotations this summer too early?

Sorry - I don't know. I never knew you could choose a place to do rotations from a different school.

From UCSF, I know you can do rotations in Fresno, Davis, a few hospitals on the penisula & in the east bay & in my day, San Diego - but I think that's not done since UCSD has its own school.

So....I really don't know if you come from XYZ school in a different state you can first, find a place which will give you a complete rotation (its not an easy thing to do - I was a preceptor for an ICU rotation & there were many planning meetings before I got a student) & second, if the school would accept the place at all.

You'd have to direct your question to the actual students from your school or state since they could give you more info on that.

I've never been in the circumstance where I've been asked to precept an out of state student. I have, however, been a supervising pharmacist for an out of state graduate intern who was just waiting to take the board or get board results.

 

[Farmercyst]

Sorry - I don't know. I never knew you could choose a place to do rotations from a different school.

From UCSF, I know you can do rotations in Fresno, Davis, a few hospitals on the penisula & in the east bay & in my day, San Diego - but I think that's not done since UCSD has its own school.

So....I really don't know if you come from XYZ school in a different state you can first, find a place which will give you a complete rotation (its not an easy thing to do - I was a preceptor for an ICU rotation & there were many planning meetings before I got a student) & second, if the school would accept the place at all.

You'd have to direct your question to the actual students from your school or state since they could give you more info on that.

I've never been in the circumstance where I've been asked to precept an out of state student. I have, however, been a supervising pharmacist for an out of state graduate intern who was just waiting to take the board or get board results.

Both USC and Oregon State said you could do a rotation anywhere an acceptable preceptor could be located. If you had a specific location or setting and referred a preceptor to the school, the school would check them out and if acceptable they would allow the rotation there. So it doesn't appear state boundaries are an issue (at least from the school's perspective) I'm pretty sure you'd have to have an intern license in whatever state the rotation site was in, but other than that it appears relatively simple to move state-to-state if you have the right connections/alumni base.

 

[njac]

Both USC and Oregon State said you could do a rotation anywhere an acceptable preceptor could be located. If you had a specific location or setting and referred a preceptor to the school, the school would check them out and if acceptable they would allow the rotation there. So it doesn't appear state boundaries are an issue (at least from the school's perspective) I'm pretty sure you'd have to have an intern license in whatever state the rotation site was in, but other than that it appears relatively simple to move state-to-state if you have the right connections/alumni base.

that is exactly what I'm doing through UNM. A current 4th year set up all of her rotations so she didn't make it back to NM until March or so. If you have family in different parts of the country find out what's near there- call, talk to people. I hope to have my 4th year rotations set up by December.

 

[genesis09]

My school doesn't allow you set up your own rotations. They say it is for legal and quality reasons. However, you do directly pick your rotations on a computer system.

 

[HenryH]

sdn1977, Are the agency/temp. jobs you referred to similar to locum tenens assignments? For long term assignments, do agencies usually pay housing, travel, etc. allowances?

Thanks...

 

[sdn1977]

sdn1977, Are the agency/temp. jobs you referred to similar to locum tenens assignments? For long term assignments, do agencies usually pay housing, travel, etc. allowances?

Thanks...

We really don't have locum tenens as is thought of in medicine.

But, I do know of some long term assignments some pharmacists have had when the corporation has paid a per diem for housing. I've only known that to occur with float pharmacists employed by a corporation rather than an agency.

Most every employer - corporations, temorary agencies will all pay mileage, but it doens't amount to a row of pins.