Afraid of Big Debt at my age. Is it worth it?

[kitsy]

I'm 34 and will be and M1 at a state school. Trouble is, I'm out of state and the tuition for oos's is close to 50K. I have won a 5K scholarship that is renewable and there is a good chance I will qualify for in state next year. I grew up in the state and my family is still there. That will half the tuition.

My credit is good, but I am already in substantial student debt (40K) from a different graduate program and I have some manageable credit card debt.
I'm petrified of going so deep into debt at my age. I feel as if it is almost irresponsible to take this much money in loans. I have no spouse or parental support so it will be all loans.

I applied to my state school in Washington, but it is a top tier and I unfortunately didn't get in. So......I could defer a year and reapply to cheaper schools, but I feel that at my age I need to get the show started so to speak.

What do people think about this. Is it worth it? Am I totally irresponsible for paying so much and taking so much out? I really want to be a doctor, but the thought of so much debt really scares me.

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[Non-TradTulsa]

What do people think about this. Is it worth it? Am I totally irresponsible for paying so much and taking so much out? I really want to be a doctor, but the thought of so much debt really scares me.

Not to give an oversimplified answer, but you have to look at your goals and values and what you expect out of your new career.

I'm starting in August at age 44. The main reason I'm becoming a doctor is because I've dreamed of it for 10 years - and I finally realized that I had to go for it or regret it for the rest of my life. It's hard for me to imagine doing anything but medicine anymore - I've had a great career for over 20 years, but the idea of sitting at a desk for another 20 years just doesn't appeal to me.

I worry about the debt, although I'll be in-state. Right now, my plan is to practice primary care in Internal Medicine. I'll have to pay my debt off in 10 years - I plan to practice 15 or even 20 years, but there is no guarantee that my health will hold out. Therefore, I probably won't have the lifestyle that many physicians do have. I don't worry too much about that as long as I'll be comfortable - money (beyond being comfortable) has never made me especially happy up until now, so why should that change?

However, I'm a CPA and I was able to sit down to do a "lifetime" financial plan for my remaining working years - looking at inflows, outgo, lost income, present values, etc. If you don't have those skills, I would suggest spending a couple of hundred dollars to visit with a Personal Financial Planner to do those calculations for you. You're ten years younger than I am and I don't think you'll have problems managing the debt - but seeing it all on paper might put your mind at ease. Good luck!

 

[oldpro]

I'm 34 and will be and M1 at a state school. Trouble is, I'm out of state and the tuition for oos's is close to 50K. I have won a 5K scholarship that is renewable and there is a good chance I will qualify for in state next year. I grew up in the state and my family is still there. That will half the tuition.

My credit is good, but I am already in substantial student debt (40K) from a different graduate program and I have some manageable credit card debt.
I'm petrified of going so deep into debt at my age. I feel as if it is almost irresponsible to take this much money in loans. I have no spouse or parental support so it will be all loans.

I applied to my state school in Washington, but it is a top tier and I unfortunately didn't get in. So......I could defer a year and reapply to cheaper schools, but I feel that at my age I need to get the show started so to speak.

What do people think about this. Is it worth it? Am I totally irresponsible for paying so much and taking so much out? I really want to be a doctor, but the thought of so much debt really scares me.

Look, you have to decide if it's worth it.

I'm 42 and in debt from this big time, but I will be an FP and there are some pay back programs for the SL.

And for me Money is just not everything, I did 18 yrs as an RN and looked at my life and said I need/want to do this to be happy. Really I am. Money, well at your age you will def earn enough to pay it off, just you don't do it fast sometimes but thats life.

Hey My debt will be about 180K How much is a house now adays?

Just wont buy a big house now LOL

Good Luck

 

[flighterdoc]

I started a private med school at 49.

My plan? Borrow as much as I can, and stretch the payments out as long as I can.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
There are primary care public health scholarships that will pay your debt if you give back year for year in an underserved comminity.

As a non-primary care person (surgeon here) a couple of job offers that I have received have offered to pay off a portion of my debt (up to $250K even though I only owe $40K) if I join the practice and stay for five years. I know that there are practices that are using debt repayment as a means of recruiting new partners.

njbmd

 

[PainDr]

You can definately manage the debt. I started med school at 36 and now, at 45, am about to finish my fellowship. I borrowed a total of $160,000 and with interest it's up to almost $300,000, however, a couple of years ago, I was able to consolidate and lock in a 4% rate. My payments start this month. After paying off a $20,000 private loan, the repayment will only be about $1000 a month. Of course, I'll be making payments until I'm 70!!!! I'm sure I'll probably pay it off sooner, but with that locked in rate, it doesn't make sense to worry about it too much.

One word of caution. I would definately stay away from public health scholarships. First of all, they're not really that great a deal. Often, after residency, employers can offer you better options. Also, there are other, post residency, state/federal sponsored programs very similar to the scholarships. You don't want to get locked into anything when there are so many other avenues.

Secondly, although you may think you want to go into primary care, you very well may change your mind...most people do. There are many reasons for this, but often what it boils down to is money and control. Medicine is a very noble profession and NOBODY goes into it only for the money. However, I guarantee that as your education progresses and you begin to understand the changes occurring around you, you'll think twice about your plan to be a PCP. It becomes very difficult to stand by and watch insurers control your life. They dictate care, PAY YOU LITTLE MORE THAN A MIDLEVEL PROVIDER and basically run your practice. Sad as it may be, medicine is a business, plain and simple. If you don't believe that you've got your head in the sand.

Many find it makes more sense to subspecialize. Not only is it more financially rewarding but it affords one a certain level of authority and autonomy that PCPs simply don't have. Oh sure, you'll start out full of piss and vinegar, ready to care for the poor and neglected, but the demands of medicine will wear you down. After years of servitude...being ordered around by nurses and midlevels, being abused by your beloved poor and neglected and being chastized for ordering that extra $9.32 test, you'll start thinking about how nice it would be to subspecialize and carve out your own little niche.

I know I'll probably get flamed for the above statements, but it's all true, better to know about it now.

 

[burntcrispy]

PainDr is correct. I'm 32 and graduating medschool in 5 days. I've got about 140K in debt as of right now locked in at 3%. When I entered medical school I thought about doing internal medicine and being a PCP. I ended up choosing a specialty that will allow me to make a very comfortable income with good hours and minimal call. Almost the opposite of internal medicine.

Once you work with some PCPs during med school you will quickly know if it is right for you. I couldn't begin to deal with all of the frustrations of it and also didn't want to go all this way to work a job which paid little more than the PAs. Also many of the PCPs don't get as much respect from their collegues in the subspecialties. You should see what the PCPs have to do to get paid for anything they do. It is almost torture.

I would strongly consider not taking the public health scholarships. You do not want to be stuck later on with your options limited. You really don't get a feel for the different specialties until your 3rd year of medical school. I would just take out the standard loans and not worry about it. The main thing is to find a job that you will enjoy.

Good luck.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Hi there,
There are primary care public health scholarships that will pay your debt if you give back year for year in an underserved comminity.

As a non-primary care person (surgeon here) a couple of job offers that I have received have offered to pay off a portion of my debt (up to $250K even though I only owe $40K) if I join the practice and stay for five years. I know that there are practices that are using debt repayment as a means of recruiting new partners.

njbmd

Are those sorts of offers (from surgery practices) typical? I've been seriously considering surgery as a specialty, but wondered about the extra debt that I might have from the longer residency. If you don't have the debt will they give you the cash as a signing bonus? (it could be vested over the 5 years -- I don't care)

Basically, I'm in the same position as a lot of non-trads -- I'm wondering about the best way to finance my education. I have a lot of savings, but with all the stories about people being able to lock in 4% interest rates, etc, I think it would be definitely better to borrow, rather than dip into my savings. If, on top of that, offers like you are describing are typical, that just makes borrowing that much more attractive.

 

[kitsy]

Thanks for all the good responses. It does make me feel better.
I have thought about the public health scholarships, but I really don't see myself as a pcp. I'm good with my hands and although I am keeping my mind open to all specialties, I see myself trying for some kind of surgical residency. So.....I guess in that case I will make enough to pay back the loans comfortably. I guess at my current income as a lab tech, it is hard to imagine that I might ever make that much money.

I applied and was accepted to a top medical school right after undergrad and decided not to go because I wasn't sure if it was what I really wanted. 12 years later, I have a completely different view of medicine. Much less romantic, but still very optimistic. It is more about what I will enjoy for the rest of my life and less about trying to save the world. This may seem selfish, but for me it is more realistic. After working in so many service industry jobs and making so little for so long, I am hopeful that I won't be one of those "grass is always greener" kind of doctors wishing I had chosen a different career.

So, thanks for the advise about the public health scholarship. I don't want to be a PCP just because it is a way to pay for my education and it is helpful to know that some specialties will help with debt repayment. I wasn't aware of that.

 

[vtucci]

If you are starting med school under 35, you might be able to get the HPSP (military scholarship) and that is more open than the national health corp.

I was 29 when I started and there are students in my class who are 40, 37, 33, 32.

Can you get instate status after a year? That is what I did and will graduate with debt around 170K plus my condo at 148K. Is it what you want?

 

[suicidal cell]

Money was a big issue for me too. I was seriously considering alternative careers (pa, np, rn, etc) because of this. After a year of introspection, I've decided to pursue my lifelong dream...to become a doctor. The years of "could I have done it" that would surely follow if I became an rn, np, pa, or whatever, was not worth the money that I was going to save.

 

[burntcrispy]

Guys, the debt shouldn't be that big of a factor for your decision. I don't know what the typical percentage is on loans. I got mine locked in pretty low because the interest rates were low at the time I got them. The rates are picking back up so who knows where they will be once you're done.

As almost any type of physician you will make enough to pay your loans back comfortably. If you pick a good subspecialty you can pay them back in less than 2 years without much of a problem.

The main thing is to find a job that you like. I would have gone to medschool no matter what the cost. A little advice is to go to the cheapest decent medical school that you can. I got accepted to expensive private schools but stayed in Tx because its relatively cheap. One out of state school was about 32K/yr. Tx tuition is 8K.

Getting into residency doesn't have all that much to do with what school you're from. They mainly look at grades and board scores. They don't really care much about what school you went to unless its Carribian or sometimes DO (depending on the specialty and institution).

Good luck guys.

 

[MJB]

8k for Med School Tuition seems to be a pipe dream anywhere outside the People's Republic of Texas.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

8k for Med School Tuition seems to be a pipe dream anywhere outside the People's Republic of Texas.

It's actually more like 10k-11k, since, in addition to the 8k tuition, there is 2-3k in required fees. It's still a great deal, but I didn't think it was unique to the state of TX.

 

[MechEng2Doc]

Getting into residency doesn't have all that much to do with what school you're from. They mainly look at grades and board scores. They don't really care much about what school you went to unless its Carribian or sometimes DO (depending on the specialty and institution).

I always thought the a big part of getting into a good residency program was dependent on which school you come from. Can anyone clear this up?

 

[RxnMan]

I always thought the a big part of getting into a good residency program was dependent on which school you come from. Can anyone clear this up?

Always willing to help out a fellow engineer. Even if they are a gearhead!

I work with a guy who is on a ortho residency selection board - he's one of the guys who decides who gets a residency spot and who doesn't. Within that, ortho is one of the more competitive residencies. He's told me he looks primarily at grades (top 10%) and USMLE scores (230+). Med school is a minor effect compared to those, and it never negatively affects you. AOA membership, significant research experience - these are things that further distinguish your application.

 

[kitsy]

If you are starting med school under 35, you might be able to get the HPSP (military scholarship) and that is more open than the national health corp.

I was 29 when I started and there are students in my class who are 40, 37, 33, 32.

Can you get instate status after a year? That is what I did and will graduate with debt around 170K plus my condo at 148K. Is it what you want?

Thanks for the info. I will look into the military scholarships a little more. Are these a year for a year kind of thing? And, how flexible are residency choices?

I believe I will be able to get in-state tuition after the first year. I will have to petition for it, but I think I have a good chance.

 

[burntcrispy]

I always thought the a big part of getting into a good residency program was dependent on which school you come from. Can anyone clear this up?

Getting into residency is a very different experience than applying to med school. For instance, I got residency interviews at all of the IVY programs in a competitive field. I'm coming from an average medschool in Tx but have very good grades and board scores. When applying to medical school I wouldn't have even gotten one IVY interview because I came from an average commuter college. (guess I'm just an average type of guy, heh).

Definately shop around when looking at the expense of medical school. In my opinion a big name school is not worth an extra 100K. Many people in my class are doing Ortho, Plastics, Derm (the most competitive). I didn't realize how little the school name mattered until attending medical school. The biggest thing for residency is Step 1 score. They use it just like an MCAT to weed folks out. (the tests just never seem to end )

Good luck guys.

 

[8744]

I started a private med school at 49.

My plan? Borrow as much as I can, and stretch the payments out as long as I can.

Yo. Fighterdoc. How is your first year going? I hope you took the little bit of advice I PM'd you a few month ago to heart about that particular primary care specialty that I told you to avoid as if it was on fire and running towards you to give you a big hug. Definitely consider IM, though, as it is the backbone of medicine and will never be replaced by PAs and NPs like the aforementioned specialty.

Hey, my Family Medicine residency program (Duke) is being shut down. They've given all of the residents the option of staying through their training. The new interns will also be offered three years of training but I can't see how the program will still be accredited in three years.

We're getting ready to head to Lansing to start my EM residency. I'm pretty gung-ho even though I'm repeating intern year.

Keep watching my blog. I'll have a few comments, for those who are interested, about Duke, the family medicine program, and my opinion of things, both good and bad. I'm waiting until I clear the wreckage and get some sea-room if you catch my drift.