Air Force Emergency Medicine

[The White Coat Investor]

Help!

I am an EM PGY3 in a deferred residency program with a 4 year HPSP commitment. I just got my list for bases and have been asked to make my ranking within the next 2 weeks. The bases and total number of Emergency Physician slots at each are listed below. If you have any information on this process it would be appreciated, specifically:
Is there anyway to game the system? What is the best way to actually get one of the 5-7 places that are acceptable to me? Is it better to rank my second choice, which has more slots available, ahead of my first choice, which it seems I would be unlikely to get? Which of these assignments have a high deployment tempo, and which ones have a low one? Which ones see higher acuity than the average AF/Glorified urgent care slots? Which ones does everyone seem to want, and which ones are less competitive? What happens if I rank a less competitive slot in my top 5 or so, will I automatically get that? I don't need info on the locations, I need info on the jobs. Does anyone have a list of the emergency department directors at each position that I can call or email? What is the hospital and emergency department like at each position? I have rotated at Wright-Patt and interviewed at Lackland, so I know a bit about each of those. Most of the rest of these I know nothing about however.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

BASE/Total Positions
ACADEMY, 8
ELMENDORF, 8
BITBURG, 2
LAKENHEATH, 1
LANDSTUHL, 2
NELLIS, 5
KEESLER, 9
LACKLAND, 18
EGLIN, 7
W-PATT, 11
ANDREWS, 8
SCOTT, 7
TRAVIS, 6
AFSOC, 4

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[island doc]

Speaking as a former AF EM GMO,

Best not to try to play "mind games" with the assignment system. Simply put down what you want in the rank order in which you want them. Bottom line is: You will go wherever they want you to go, for whatever reasons they want you to go there. You do have some input into the process so you might as well take advantage of it, keeping in mind that assigments are often made wiithout a great deal of thought on the part of the assignment officers at AFPC. They just don't have the time or ability to put a tremendous amount of thought and effort into the process and they can never satisfy everyone in their first choice. Keep in mind, their job is simply to fill slots.

Having said all that, you are accurate in your perception that most AF ED's are nothing more than 24hr urgent care centers, this is why so many AF EM's moonlight in civilian ER's to maintain their skills (I was included in that.) I would suggest that you decide where you want to live first, you want to be able to have fun when you are not working in the "urgent care center". That would be my first consideration. After that, select an "urgent care center" you would like to work in. The work is going to be pretty much the same at all of them, with some being better equipped and with more specialty back-up than others.

Moving on, we lived in Landsthul for two years and loved it. Great opportunity for European Travel. I would seriously consider it, although civilian moonlighting would be extremely difficult if not impossible-probably the biggest draw back. Bitburg would get you to Europe also, but Landsthul has more going for it. Same for Lakenheath.

Nellis is Vegas. A great place to live and play and with the VA and AF hospitals having merged there is probably more clinical exposure. Fantastic moonlighting opportunities there.

There are some other good spots on the list, geographically speaking. Academy for skiing and outdoors. Same for Elmendorf. Eglin if you like the beach.

I am surprised Keesler is on the list, thought it was destroyed. Don't know anything about AFSOC, must be for the "hooah" types.

PM me if you have any more questions.

 

[Heeed!]

Help!

BASE/Total Positions
ACADEMY, 8
ELMENDORF, 8
BITBURG, 2
LAKENHEATH, 1
LANDSTUHL, 2
NELLIS, 5
KEESLER, 9
LACKLAND, 18
EGLIN, 7
W-PATT, 11
ANDREWS, 8
SCOTT, 7
TRAVIS, 6
AFSOC, 4

You have some great bases to chose from! Decide what's important to you (location, moonlighting, etc) and draw up your ROL in descending order. I hope my options are as good as yours.

 

[island doc]

One other important thing to consider is staffing level of the ED. In a 24/7 operation you want plenty of other people to help you. If the ER is like the clinics, the AF has a tendency to understaff it's operations.

 

[MeganRose]

Help!

I am an EM PGY3 in a deferred residency program with a 4 year HPSP commitment. I just got my list for bases and have been asked to make my ranking within the next 2 weeks. The bases and total number of Emergency Physician slots at each are listed below. If you have any information on this process it would be appreciated, specifically:
Is there anyway to game the system? What is the best way to actually get one of the 5-7 places that are acceptable to me? Is it better to rank my second choice, which has more slots available, ahead of my first choice, which it seems I would be unlikely to get? Which of these assignments have a high deployment tempo, and which ones have a low one? Which ones see higher acuity than the average AF/Glorified urgent care slots? Which ones does everyone seem to want, and which ones are less competitive? What happens if I rank a less competitive slot in my top 5 or so, will I automatically get that? I don't need info on the locations, I need info on the jobs. Does anyone have a list of the emergency department directors at each position that I can call or email? What is the hospital and emergency department like at each position? I have rotated at Wright-Patt and interviewed at Lackland, so I know a bit about each of those. Most of the rest of these I know nothing about however.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

BASE/Total Positions
ACADEMY, 8
ELMENDORF, 8
BITBURG, 2
LAKENHEATH, 1
LANDSTUHL, 2
NELLIS, 5
KEESLER, 9
LACKLAND, 18
EGLIN, 7
W-PATT, 11
ANDREWS, 8
SCOTT, 7
TRAVIS, 6
AFSOC, 4

A bit unrelated but-- I'm AFHPSP interested in EM. I'm curious, how did you secured a deferred slot? Any suggestions on how to get deferred?
Thanks,
Megan

 

[The White Coat Investor]

A bit unrelated but-- I'm AFHPSP interested in EM. I'm curious, how did you secured a deferred slot? Any suggestions on how to get deferred?
Thanks,
Megan

There's another thread right now talking about this same question, but basically, I interviewed at both AF EM programs and told them I really wanted to do EM but I would prefer to train in a civilian program. You're only required to go to one interview, so I suppose that meant something. I rotated at one of the two programs and told them the same thing there. It helps that I did well on my rotation and I had good board scores.

 

[USAFdoc2be]

some advice...if you have a higher ranking officer that you are close to have them work the system. Too many people sit back and let AFPC decide for them. The O-6 I work for has gotten every assingment he's wanted in 24 years because he's learned to work the system. Most people down at AFPC are captains and they're personnel, so getting an O-6 or even flag officer to call for you can really help you!

I'm stationed at W-P currently and if you need any additional info on the area in general let me know.

Jaime
(USUHS class 2010)

 

[EMflyer]

Does anyone have more recent information on this topic? I am a 3rd yr EM resident with an HPSP obligation. Is the current assignment system the same as the one used in 05? Any current feedback on AF ED's (staffing, ect) and moonlighting opportunities? Does anyone have last years list of bases?
Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Doctor Bob]

Does anyone know about the current state of the emergency departments at the following bases?

Langley
Scott
Travis
Eglin

I hear some of the bases are changing their ED to urgent care centers and others are becoming glorified clinics.

 

[J-Rad]

Does anyone know about the current state of the emergency departments at the following bases?

Langley
Scott
Travis
Eglin

I hear some of the bases are changing their ED to urgent care centers and others are becoming glorified clinics.

Langley hasn't had an ED in years; it's a UCC manned by FPs mostly.

 

[freezeray]

A little off topic, but...

I heard from a friend, an Army ER doc, that in the Army, they need a lot of ER docs in theater, but there aren't enough ERs for residency trained ER physicians to work in back stateside. That means that after residency, they are used as Battalion surgeons or flight surgeons for the first two years, then they're eligible to PCS to an ER assignment.

Does anyone know if the Air Force do that with it's ER docs as well?

I would assume that there's a lot of moonlighting going on so they can keep their skills current.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Langley hasn't had an ED in years; it's a UCC manned by FPs mostly.

I was dismayed over hearing this, so I spoke with the AF consultant for EM regarding base locations, to find out which other bases also have urgent care centers. He mentioned that the UCC at Langley has recently been upgraded to a full ED. Apparently Andrews and Hurlburt Field are the only bases in the current list of available EM slots for graduating residents which have urgent care centers.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I was dismayed over hearing this, so I spoke with the AF consultant for EM regarding base locations, to find out which other bases also have urgent care centers. He mentioned that the UCC at Langley has recently been upgraded to a full ED. Apparently Andrews and Hurlburt Field are the only bases in the current list of available EM slots for graduating residents which have urgent care centers.

They can call it anything they want but that doesn't mean the acuity supports that claim. Call the ED, speak to a doc, ask how many critically ill patients he encountered in the last month.

 

[J-Rad]

They can call it anything they want but that doesn't mean the acuity supports that claim. Call the ED, speak to a doc, ask how many critically ill patients he encountered in the last month.

Agreed.

As an aside, I have never met anyone in any specialty that was at Langley hospital that thought that it was anything but a malignant hellhole. But YMMV.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

This thread is back from the dead. I haven't even posted under this name on SDN for years. I'm now over a year out of the military. To answer a couple of questions:

1) The AF doesn't make emergency docs battalion surgeons. But they do get to work in low acuity emergency departments all over the world, such as at Langley.

2) Langley is an ED in name only. I know this better than anyone. It was never really an urgent care. It really isn't an ED. But nothing changed just by changing the sign out front except that it is staffed by active duty recent emergency medicine residency grads instead of contracting FPs. It would best be described as a high-volume, low-acuity ED. Seeing 3-4 patients an hour is not unusual at all, but only a couple of patients get admitted or transferred out a day. But it really isn't any worse than any other AF ED including the "higher acuity" ones such as Nellis. They're all holes complained to the dozen civilian EDs I've worked in. Feel free to call in there and ask the current docs what they think. 757-764-6800. Introduce yourself as "Dr. XXXXX" and ask for the doc on duty.

 

[anthony78001]

This thread is back from the dead. I haven't even posted under this name on SDN for years. I'm now over a year out of the military. To answer a couple of questions:

1) The AF doesn't make emergency docs battalion surgeons. But they do get to work in low acuity emergency departments all over the world, such as at Langley.

2) Langley is an ED in name only. I know this better than anyone. It was never really an urgent care. It really isn't an ED. But nothing changed just by changing the sign out front except that it is staffed by active duty recent emergency medicine residency grads instead of contracting FPs. It would best be described as a high-volume, low-acuity ED. Seeing 3-4 patients an hour is not unusual at all, but only a couple of patients get admitted or transferred out a day. But it really isn't any worse than any other AF ED including the "higher acuity" ones such as Nellis. They're all holes complained to the dozen civilian EDs I've worked in. Feel free to call in there and ask the current docs what they think. 757-764-6800. Introduce yourself as "Dr. XXXXX" and ask for the doc on duty.

are there any higher acuity positions for EM docs in the air force state side or if you are looking for high acuity being deployed is the best option?
ive read most military EM docs will work the lower acuity military ERs and moonlight civilian places to keep their skills up.

im a EM pgy2 considering staying civilian, military or other government EM positions

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

Do not practice EM in the military. It is urgent care once done with residency outside of a couple select sites.