Air Force Flight Surgeon or Navy Flight Surgeon?

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Osteo4life

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Hello,

I am pursuing osteopathic school and am interested in the military HPSP. I also have a strong interest in flying. I was curious as to which route Navy or AF (or even Army) was better for getting the best quality of flight time (I mean actually fly the thing as the co-pilot and not just be a passenger on the aircraft) as a flight surgeon. I want to do my 4 years of service as a flight surgeon and go onto a civilian residency in hopefully anesthesiology or internal medicine or family medicine. I do not want to pursue a military residency. I am also flat footed (have a very low, almost no arch, on my feet) would that in any way stop me from being qualified to actually fly as a flight surgeon? If I can not become a flight surgeon what other options do I have in either the AF or Navy? Thank you for your support.

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Hello,

I am pursuing osteopathic school and am interested in the military HPSP. I also have a strong interest in flying. I was curious as to which route Navy or AF (or even Army) was better for getting the best quality of flight time (I mean actually fly the thing as the co-pilot and not just be a passenger on the aircraft) as a flight surgeon. I want to do my 4 years of service as a flight surgeon and go onto a civilian residency in hopefully anesthesiology or internal medicine or family medicine. I do not want to pursue a military residency. I am also flat footed (have a very low, almost no arch, on my feet) would that in any way stop me from being qualified to actually fly as a flight surgeon? If I can not become a flight surgeon what other options do I have in either the AF or Navy? Thank you for your support.

Flight time????

Navy, hands down. Don't think the other services will give you stick time.
 
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How long is training for become a flight surgeon in the Navy, and for the AF? I know that the AF has the RAM program, but that is 3 years and I am probably sure there is a longer commitment time once one goes through RAM. Do AF flight surgeons get stick time only after RAM?

For Navy, once I finish training it has been 6 months already and each FS tour is 2 years so is it better to do only 3 years of HPSP or 4 years, and if I go with the 3 year route what will I do those extra 6 months?

Also what is the deal with people with flat feet and being able to get stick time?

I was curious about the training that students do during the summer for Navy or AF HPSP and what is it like? A lot of running? Classes to take? Field Training?
 
I was hoping that some one could tell me how competitive the FS slots are in the Navy compared to the other GMO billets, such as Drive Medicine, Fleet Marines, and Fleet Ship?

Since I have flat feet, would that automatically take me out of fleet Marine or any ground based activities, leaving me with the fleet ship GMO (since FS and Dive Medicine are competitive).

Once I do my internship at a Navy Hospital will I most likely get my second or third choice (i.e. not FS)? What are the factors that determine which GMO tour I get besides the needs of the navy, such as Medical School ranking and the quality of the school (the school's reputation)? Thanks!!!

I also know that AF FS are in desperate need, but with just the AMP course they definitely do NOT get stick time from what I have hear, but please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you
 
After working elbow-to-elbow with the Flight surgeons at Spangdahlem AB in Germany, Im pretty sure that "stick time" is someting that is not an official policy. As you are not a rated pilot. if the pilot you are flying with lets you fly the aircraft im almost positive that it will be in direct violation of military procedure and regulations....

That being said i know many, many non rated (non-pilots) that do have stick time. Enlisted members, folks on check rides and incentive rides that have sticked F-15's and F-16's.

The USAF Flight surgeons on bases taht deal with fighters (all i can talk to - 3 years in Germany) have a required amount of flight time per year. The FS's that i worked with had flight time when the operations tempo and patient care allowed (deployments, aircraft movements and training take away form the normal day to day operations of the base and hospital/clinic).

best bet: Call Flight Medicine and speak to a Flight Surgeon. You will be able to get the answer from the horse directly.
 
After working elbow-to-elbow with the Flight surgeons at Spangdahlem AB in Germany, Im pretty sure that "stick time" is someting that is not an official policy.

Are you speaking for Air Force only here? I know for sure that "stick time" is pretty much guaranteed if you are a flight surgeon in the Navy assigned to a squadron that has dual control aircraft. You will also get "stick time" in the Navy during the flight surgery course as it's a required part of the curriculum.

As you are not a rated pilot. if the pilot you are flying with lets you fly the aircraft im almost positive that it will be in direct violation of military procedure and regulations....
.

Navy specifically allows flight surgeons to be at the controls of any dual control aircraft as long as there is a qualified pilot in the other seat. (ref OPNAVINST 3710 series) Now, there are other competing factors that limit the time you actually will see at the controls (eg pilots need a certain number of hours and there are only so many hours to give).
 
After working elbow-to-elbow with the Flight surgeons at Spangdahlem AB in Germany, Im pretty sure that "stick time" is someting that is not an official policy. As you are not a rated pilot. if the pilot you are flying with lets you fly the aircraft im almost positive that it will be in direct violation of military procedure and regulations....

That being said i know many, many non rated (non-pilots) that do have stick time. Enlisted members, folks on check rides and incentive rides that have sticked F-15's and F-16's.

The USAF Flight surgeons on bases taht deal with fighters (all i can talk to - 3 years in Germany) have a required amount of flight time per year. The FS's that i worked with had flight time when the operations tempo and patient care allowed (deployments, aircraft movements and training take away form the normal day to day operations of the base and hospital/clinic).

best bet: Call Flight Medicine and speak to a Flight Surgeon. You will be able to get the answer from the horse directly.

Stick time in the AF is basically, you're up there in a fighter, the pilot has finished the major part of their flying profile (i.e., the training they were up there to do), there's a bit of a lull, and then the pilot pops up with, "Hey doc, want to fly for awhile?" followed promptly by you saying "Sure!" and immediately executing several barrel rolls, hopefully without passing out or throwing up in your mask.

Flight docs are logged as rated aircrew, but this is not the same as being a pilot.
 
We are currently gapped 60 billets for flight surgeons. That is, there is a marked shortage in those being trained and retained. That being said, getting selected to go to flight surgery training in Pensacola is becoming more and more difficult as GMOs are needed elsewhere.

Pensacola is not one big party where all you do is fly like you have heard from the older flight surgeon community. You will get familiarization time on both fixed and rotary winged aircraft however the vast majority of the time is spent taking tests, studying, and passing swim qualifications. The actual flight training portion is a little over 2 months of a six month syllabus.

You opportunity to pick your squadron is a tricky one. Typically when close to graduation from FS training, 30 billets are presented to the 30 flight surgeons. The staff leave it up to you to decide amongst yourself who goes where. If there is a contested billet, the staff will interview both applicants and decide who goes where. Usually family issues or prior service take precedence.

I will tell you more often than not, people pick their billet based on location rather than what type of aircraft or if they will get stick time. Do not fall into this myth that you're going to become some type of rated pilot. It does not happen. You can however fly the aircraft and the squadron will treat you very well. The training is really no longer very much fun. I have heard in the past things were a little different due to the leadership. It is a very corporate process now.

Being a flight surgeon is a job like any other in the Navy. You probably won't work very hard (I know at our base, we have a very laid back operational pace) and you get to wear a flight suit to work everyday which is fine because I hate the khaki uniform.

Hope this helps. And no one cares about your flat feet. You can be pretty blind so long as you are corrected to 20/20. You dont need to be PQ AA DIACA SG1.
 
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I am a flight surgeon in the USN currently executing 3 year orders before I get out and pursue a residency in the civillian world. Let me give you the straight up facts from the Navy side of the house. I cannot in any way address AF flight surgeon training or experience.

We are currently gapped 60 billets for flight surgeons. That is, there is a marked shortage in those being trained and retained. That being said, getting selected to go to flight surgery training in Pensacola is becoming more and more difficult as GMOs are needed elsewhere.

Pensacola is not one big party where all you do is fly like you have heard from the older flight surgeon community. You will get familiarization time on both fixed and rotary winged aircraft however the vast majority of the time is spent taking tests, studying, and passing swim qualifications. The actual flight training portion is a little over 2 months of a six month syllabus.

I am a flight surgeon for two different small squadrons. My squadron aircraft are SH-60s, P3s, and C12s. You are required by instruction to fly 4 hours a month or 48 hours a year to be eligible for your flight pay. Depending on your squadron this may mean actual time flying the aircraft or just being in it as crew. I get a little of both depending on what the mission is. Your experience is ENTIRELY dependent on what squadron you get. I have friends in Marine dual seat F18s who fly all the time (yes such a squadron exists in Iwakuni). I also have friends who are essentially crew all the time and are never at the controls.

You opportunity to pick your squadron is a tricky one. Typically when close to graduation from FS training, 30 billets are presented to the 30 flight surgeons. The staff leave it up to you to decide amongst yourself who goes where. If there is a contested billet, the staff will interview both applicants and decide who goes where. Usually family issues or prior service take precedence.

I will tell you more often than not, people pick their billet based on location rather than what type of aircraft or if they will get stick time. Do not fall into this myth that you're going to become some type of rated pilot. It does not happen. You can however fly the aircraft and the squadron will treat you very well. The training is really no longer very much fun. I have heard in the past things were a little different due to the leadership. It is a very corporate process now.

Being a flight surgeon is a job like any other in the Navy. You probably won't work very hard (I know at our base, we have a very laid back operational pace) and you get to wear a flight suit to work everyday which is fine because I hate the khaki uniform.

Hope this helps. And no one cares about your flat feet. You can be pretty blind so long as you are corrected to 20/20. You dont need to be PQ AA DIACA SG1.


Thank you very much for that response, I was looking forward to hearing detailed answers from an actual Navy Flight Surgeon.

As Flight Surgeon GMOs are being reduced, where are they being added? (Ship Fleet billets, Undersea Diver Medicine, Fleet Marines or forced to go straight through?)

I apologize for asking this, but can you please explain what each one of these are: PQ, AA, DIACA, SG1.

Do you believe wanting to do a Flight Surgeon GMO tour in the Navy (I would like to do a 3 or 4 year tour) is worth doing a Navy HPSP over an Air Force HPSP for Flight Surgeon (I understand you do not have a strong background in the Air Force, but a solid option will be greatly appreciated.)

Thank you for your service, and I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
 
I've been recently accepted to med school and also have been interested in flying. I've been fascinated with fighter jets since I was a kid. I was considering doing HPSP and fullfilling my commitment or at least part of it as a flight surgeon. If I do this before residency then apply for a military residency would I have a better shot at getting a more competitve residency such as ortho due to time served as a FS?

That last part, yes (probably). Some things to keep in mind though, you've got a good chance of ending up at a bomber/cargo/tanker base. Also the AF at least will be almost entirely single-seat fighter aircraft like the F-35 10 years from now.
 
Army FS school does not have stick time (outside the simulator). A doc balled-up a chopper during FS School years ago and that ended it.

As a FS you're required to fly every month. However, since most rotary wing require a pilot/co-pilot, you'll be in the back.
 
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Army FS school does not have stick time (outside the simulator). A doc balled-up a chopper during FS School years ago and that ended it.

As a FS you're required to fly every month. However, since most rotary wing require a pilot/co-pilot, you'll be in the back.


Can you please specify in the bottom part whether you are talking about USAF FS or Navy FS or both. Thanks!
 
Osteo4Life and everyone -

First off, let me be diplomatic and say regardless of the service you choose, the experiences you will have as a Flight Surgeon will be incomparable. I've been fortunate enough to talk to many Naval Flight Surgeons and many USAF Flight Surgeons over the past year, and you will find amazing people doing amazing work in both of these services. I leave out the other services only because I have not crossed paths with any of their Flight Surgeons.

Ravager135 did a great job summarizing the life of a typical flight surgeon - to add one more data point, let me also summarize my time as a Navy Flight Surgeon.

I graduated from the Naval Aerospace Medicine Institute's Flight Surgeon course in June 2007. Through the process of billet selection mentioned by Ravager135, I ended up going to the 3rd MAW in Yuma, AZ. Much as Ravager135 mentioned, I chose the location primarily due to location - I wanted to be close to San Diego, but all the San Diego billets were taken by graduates with a reason to be in San Diego, such as colocation with a spouse. I spent 2 years with the Marines of VMA-513, a single seat Harrier squadron, and had the time of my life. With the Marines, you are generally responsible for only a single squadron (vice the Navy where you may be a CAG flight surgeon or similar, responsible for multiple squadrons). As such, I was taken in as an integral part of the ready room, and made great friends and great memories - a K-court in San Diego, a Yen-Roll in Vegas, and a West-Pac with 6 weeks in Thailand... all told, my time with VMA-513 were some of the best days of my life!

Around mid-2009, I got orders to NAS North Island, as the flight surgeon for the NOSC. This was an awesome job, working with 12 Corpsmen to take care of 3500 reservists. However, there was no wardroom to speak of, and I really didn't get the feeling of being a part of the tradition of Naval Aviation.

In Aug 2010, I got picked up to be the flight surgeon for the Blue Angels, and have been in Pensacola, FL, since then. There is no doubt in my mind that I am currently in the single best billet in the entire Navy! (Of course, my current duties include recruiting to Navy in general, and Navy medicine in particular, so you are duly informed by this disclaimer.)

Osteo4Life, you asked specifically about flight time. As a private pilot (PPL-ASEL/Instrument), I truly enjoy flying, and have tried to fly as much as possible throughout my time as a flight surgeon. To summarize my approximate flight times since graduating flight surgeon school:
TAV-8B: 15 hours
F/A-18 b/d: 8 hours
F-16: 8 hours
C-130: More than I can count
UH-1H Huey: 5 hours
SH-53: 2 hours
C-40: Lots
KC-130: Lots
C-17: Lots

Most of this time is in the cockpit, but almost none of this time is actual control of aircraft. (And since you might be wondering, the F-16 time came from doing the Top-Knife II "Advanced Flight Surgeon" program, an exchange program with the USAF.)

What I've found is that some flight surgeons, like myself, try pretty hard to get flight time, and are usually successful. One flight doc buddy of mine is at the Super Hornet FRS in LeMoore, and has over 200 Rhino hours and regularly takes off and lands at LeMoore with no help from his front seat instructor. Other flight surgeons have almost no time, and the little time they have is sitting in the back of a C-40 (737) just like you would on a Southwest flight.

In any case, I hope this helps add a little more information to your decision tree. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected].

(and despite my promise to be diplomatic....)

FLY NAVY!

Doc
 

Hey doc, just fyi it's probably not the best idea to post your full name, personal history, photo, phone number, and .mil email address on a public forum. I don't think the terrorists will really figure out ways to gain top secret clearance out of this information, but the spam bots will just have a good ol' time.
 
Nice to see a bunch of GMO Flight Docs coming out of the woodwork here...

To all of the pre-meds and med students with Top Gun fetishes- being a Flight Surgeon is about taking care of pilots/aircrew and sometimes their families. Do not go into it thinking you're going to be Maverick. Flight Surgeons are more like the guy from "Hot Shots" with Walleye vision. We are not pilots, and certainly not Rated (yeah I know what the Regs say).

Being a Flight Surgeon is pretty sweet in many ways- if you're good you'll become part of the family, part of the team, but don't delude yourself into thinking you're a frontseater, or ever will be. That is not our job, and the flyers will have a good laugh at your expense.


- 61N
 
What LT Smith forgot to mention is that he will spend 70% of the next 3? years living at a Holiday Inn Express. All for a tailored flight suit.
 

Hello all! I received a question regarding some specifics of the Navy program, and thought the response, quoted below, could be useful information....

In the Navy (and the other services as well), it is common, but not required, for docs to take a break in the normal med school-internship-residency progression of training after completing internship to do a GMO (general medical officer) tour. In the US, after internship you become eligible for licensure as a physician. (Most of our civilian counterparts do not get their individual license at this point, and continue residency in a training status.) In the Navy, if you do a GMO tour, you can apply to three different options: GMO (which would be a doc aboard a ship), Undersea (which would be a dive doc), or Flight (which would be a flight surgeon). Although it is an application process, you could almost certainly get flight, so long as you meet the physical requirements for being on flight status - if you have any concern about this, let me know and I'll give you some further guidance.

In any case, after selecting flight, you will go to Pensacola, FL, for a 7-8 month training period. About half of that time you spend studying aerospace medicine as it pertains military aviation. The other half of your time you will do NO medicine, and instead you will enroll at API (aviation preflight indoctrination, otherwise known as ground school) and study aerodynamics, navigation, powerplants/jet engines, and other topics. You will be in class with all of the budding Naval Aviators. After completing API, you will complete survival training, including water survival, ejection seat training, how to parachute safely, how to get picked up by a helicopter from the water, etc. After that, you will check in to one of the VT training squadrons flying the T-6 Texan II, usually for about 4 weeks by the time you do the ground training, operations, and then about 7 flights. After that, you will move over to one of the HT squadrons and do the same thing, but in the TH-57 helicopter. It's cool training, and an amazing experience. You will then graduate and earn your Naval Flight Surgeon Wings, at which point you are a designated Naval Flight Surgeon.

The general path at that point would be to work as a squadron flight surgeon for a 2 year tour. After two years, you have an important choice to make. If the Navy paid for 4 years of med school, at this point you can either do 2 more years as a flight surgeon, then get out and do your civilian residency and say adios to the military (people will mention the 2 year IRR requirement, but I have never seen this be an actual issue preventing anyone from getting out, mainly because when you get out, you are going to residency which is protected), or you could go on to a residency, either in or out of the military, after which you will owe more time. Or, like me, you can do both. I'm in my 4th year being a flight surgeon (absolutely love this job!) but after my two year tour with the Blue Angels, I will be going back to complete an Emergency Medicine residency.

You asked specifically about the type of medicine practiced as a flight surgeon. As a licensed physician, you will be privileged by the local naval hospital to do whichever procedures you are comfortable with. There is a lot of routine sick call, sports medicine, and minor illnesses. You come across the occasional pneumonia, appendicitis, ectopic pregnancy, etc. We don't see much chronic disease like diabetes or COPD. Since I'm going to go into ER, I like procedures, and I've done a lot of suturing, removal of cysts, placing casts or splints, draining knee effusions or doing injections of knees, shoulders, elbows. Obviously, we aren’t doing any major surgery, but as far as minor surgical procedures, you can do whatever you feel comfortable with. (As a side note, it is very cool to be an independent doc at this point – all of your civilian colleagues will be entering their second year of residency, and still will not be practicing as independently as you will be.) When all is said and done, being a flight surgeon is exactly like being a primary care doc for the squadron, with a little bit of specific knowledge related to aviation medicine.

As for the difference between Navy and Air Force training, my understanding is that the Air Force has a much shorter training program for their flight surgeons. They do not go through the same level of flight training like we do in the Navy, and they are usually attached to a clinic instead of to a squadron. They have a couple programs, such as Top Knife II, where they train and fly in F-16’s. However, I was able to take this USAF course as an exchange student, and according to my Air Force friends, it’s easier to go to this Air Force class from the Navy than the Air Force because it’s so competitive. All that said, there are plenty of benefits to the Air Force program, as well. Obviously I’m biased towards the Navy, but either program is amazing, and as much as we like to joke, either the Navy or the Air Force will give you an amazing experience. I know a ton of great Air Force flight docs that are very happy with their decision to go Air Force.

Well, I hope this helps you with your decision making process. Again, if you have any further questions, or if the Blue Angels are coming to do a show near you (check our schedules on our website), let me know, would be happy to discuss in person.

Fly Navy!

Jason
 
Just a follow up. The Blue Angel Doc, is correct. He has the most coveted of all flight surgeon billets in the Navy, although I don't personally care much for Pensacola. 6 months there was time enough for me.

It's a blessing and a curse that he posted here. Blessing in that I echo all of his points and concur with every statement made regarding training and the syllabus to become a flight surgeon. It's a curse because now he is going to inspire all these med students into thinking his billet is easily obtainable. Doc got that billet because he probably one of the best flight surgeons in the fleet!

That being said, my understanding is that the shortage of flight surgeons in the fleet are due to lack of retention of flight surgeons, a greater need for positions with the Marine Corps as GMOs, and diminished recruiting over these past several years. I know personally at my base, we have two senior flight surgeons who were essentially told to fill FS billets before they could do another tour within their specialty. Despite the flight surgeons being more senior than I, I am in the commanding billet so I routinely discuss retention, gapped billets, etc with them.

I am probably not as gung ho as my counterpart and I am willing to discuss anything anyone wants to know in a private message. I am, however, proud of my experiences and have been very lucky with my billet. I intend to leave the Navy when my orders expire in 2 years and I am in the process of applying for a civillian internship.

DO NOT join the Navy just because you want to be a flight surgeon. It isn't guaranteed and even if you are you will find yourself practicing alot of the same medicine as your colleagues. All avenues in the Navy are enriching in their own way and suck in their own way.

The PQ AA DIACA SG1 thing was an inside joke. FS's will know what it means. I hope this helps, please feel free to contact me personally with further questions.
 
Hello all! I received a question regarding some specifics of the Navy program, and thought the response, quoted below, could be useful information....

In the Navy (and the other services as well), it is common, but not required, for docs to take a break in the normal med school-internship-residency progression of training after completing internship to do a GMO (general medical officer) tour. In the US, after internship you become eligible for licensure as a physician. (Most of our civilian counterparts do not get their individual license at this point, and continue residency in a training status.) In the Navy, if you do a GMO tour, you can apply to three different options: GMO (which would be a doc aboard a ship), Undersea (which would be a dive doc), or Flight (which would be a flight surgeon). Although it is an application process, you could almost certainly get flight, so long as you meet the physical requirements for being on flight status - if you have any concern about this, let me know and I'll give you some further guidance.


What a solid response. Thank you Lt. Smith (Blue Angels Flight Surgeon) and Avenger135 for the first had information that was much needed. I am happy that you are explaining the details of you experience and what it takes to become a Navy flight surgeon with us. With respect to what the Blue Angels Flight Surgeon said about the easy chances of becoming a Flight Surgeon and what others have been saying on this thread about how it is getting harder to become a flight surgeon (or at least getting the billet) seems to be different. Can someone explain how the need for other GMO billets (such as the Marine GMO billet) have impacted the FS billet and the number of FS billets in the future? I was also curious whether the Blue Angels Flight Surgeon could describe the details of the physical examination for flight status to become a flight surgeon.
 
Sorry for the late reply, this past week we visited Lakeland, FL, shortly after a tornado and some bad weather had caused a very bad couple days for a few people, so we’ve had a busy weekend. However, in the spirit of better late than never:
Osteo4Life, it sounds like Raveger135 would be better able to intelligently discuss the future manning of FS and GMO billets. That said, I will tell you, I joined the Navy because I wanted to be a flight surgeon. I’ve since learned, however, that military service is a lot more than flight surgery, and for me, it’s been a great fit. For many people, it’s a horrible fit. So, I would agree with Raveger135 that you should NOT join the Navy just to be a flight surgeon, or just to go get stationed in San Diego, or because you think you won’t end up deployed to Afghanistan, because those things might not happen. (Although, as I indicated previously, if you are motivated to do flight, I’m certain your effort to write a good personal statement and get LOR’s for the process will pay off… a lot of interns just kind of throw in a package last minute because they don’t want to be on a ship.)
I was asked why I didn’t go to Iraq/Afghanistan. When I was with VMA-513, Harrier squadrons were being tasked with a variety of deployments, most in OIF/OEF. VMA-513 was sent to support the 31st MEU, which was, at that time, doing a WESTPAC, so instead of Iraq/Afghanistan, I ended up spending time in Okinawa, Thailand, the Phillippines, and aboard the USS Essex. Before I was stationed with an operational command, I probably would have scored this as a huge win – don’t have to go to war, get to visit Asia a little bit – and that’s true. However, if I had to choose, I would have preferred going to Iraq/Afghanistan, and so would everyone in my squadron. We do a lot of training, and work hard to be prepared to complete our mission. In the case of VMA-513, the primary mission is close air support, and the opportunity to go support our troops on the ground and maybe even save some of their lives, would have been the most rewarding and meaningful contribution we could make. It is the reason we wear the uniform. I know that many of you view deployment to Afghanistan, or any other war zone, as the ultimate booby-prize for your decision to join the military and "take the money," but at least for me, that view has truly changed... mostly because of the experiences I've had as a flight surgeon.

On a different subject, medical/physical standards for Naval Aviation are covered in the Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide. (If you google this title, it will be your first result and you can review it.) Section 1.9 covers Naval Flight Surgeons and Student Naval Flight Surgeons. Apart from loosened visual acuity standards, Flight Surgeons are held to the same standards as Naval Aviators – these standards are detailed in Section 1.5.
Basically, the physical exam and tests will be completed, and if everything is good to go, you will get your aeromedical clearance notice (upchit) and will be all set. If something comes back abnormal, you will need further workup. For example, let’s say your EKG showed some mild abnormality, let’s say LVH. You could use the Waiver Guide and look up LVH (Section 3.17) and you’d find lots of information, including:
“LVH by Voltage:
For all aviators- A diagnosis of LVH by voltage is considered NCD provided the echocardiogram is normal. It is not required that the aviator be grounded pending echocardiogram interpretation.
USAFSAM LVH by voltage criteria:
1. S in V1 or V2 plus R in V5 or V6:
>55mm if age 35 or younger
>45mm if older than 35
2. No ST/T changes”
NCD means Not Considered Disqualifying, so you’d be OK if you met these criteria. Some other requirements, such as height, is outlined in OPNAVINST 3710.37A. Maximum height for a Flight Surgeon should be the same as a student NFO, which is 78”, or 6’6”. This is getting a little into the weeds – you’ll have plenty of time to learn the ins and outs of the Waiver Guide in Flight Surgeon school.

As for other requirements, you must be in decent shape, and you must be somewhat comfortable in the water. Aviation survival training requires a number of pool and ocean based training evolutions that are not entirely benign, and people do drop from the program due to inability to complete the swimming portions. That said, the training is good, and even people who think they are poor swimmers generally pass, and if needed, they get remedial training.
I hope some of this is helpful. As always, if you have any further questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them.

Take care -
Doc
 
Hi Guys,

I'm a Army Nat'l Guard Medevac Pilot out of Reno, NV. I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan. I have been a Surgical Technologist for the past 9 years as my civilian job. I have always dreamt of flying and of being a doctor. The first I have accomplished, but becoming a doctor at this point (35 married with four kids) is almost a lost cause. I was considering going through the army's PA program...seems like a pretty sweet deal. Then becoming an APA and holding both the rated and PA jobs.

There is no precedence for this that I can find since the army has done away with the flight portion of their Flight Surgeon Program. Do you think that since I am already a rated commercial/inst pilot that the Navy or Air Force would let me fill a medical slot and a flight slot?

What about Air force PJs do they take PAs? I am already qualified in the UH-60. I would have to get in some serious shape, I'm in ok shape, but I am 35. Sorry this is a little off topic but do you guys know anyone that could shed some light on this? Thanks.
 
Hi Guys,

I'm a Army Nat'l Guard Medevac Pilot out of Reno, NV. I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan. I have been a Surgical Technologist for the past 9 years as my civilian job. I have always dreamt of flying and of being a doctor. The first I have accomplished, but becoming a doctor at this point (35 married with four kids) is almost a lost cause. I was considering going through the army's PA program...seems like a pretty sweet deal. Then becoming an APA and holding both the rated and PA jobs.

There is no precedence for this that I can find since the army has done away with the flight portion of their Flight Surgeon Program. Do you think that since I am already a rated commercial/inst pilot that the Navy or Air Force would let me fill a medical slot and a flight slot?

What about Air force PJs do they take PAs? I am already qualified in the UH-60. I would have to get in some serious shape, I'm in ok shape, but I am 35. Sorry this is a little off topic but do you guys know anyone that could shed some light on this? Thanks.

I met a guy this summer who kept his flying career in the ANG (he flies F-16s) and his civilian career as an EM doc. I asked him about the Pilot-physician spots and he said that was the best solution for him to be able to practice medicine like he wanted to and to keep flying.
 
I was hoping that some one could tell me how competitive the FS slots are in the Navy compared to the other GMO billets, such as Drive Medicine, Fleet Marines, and Fleet Ship?

Since I have flat feet, would that automatically take me out of fleet Marine or any ground based activities, leaving me with the fleet ship GMO (since FS and Dive Medicine are competitive).

Once I do my internship at a Navy Hospital will I most likely get my second or third choice (i.e. not FS)? What are the factors that determine which GMO tour I get besides the needs of the navy, such as Medical School ranking and the quality of the school (the school's reputation)? Thanks!!!

I also know that AF FS are in desperate need, but with just the AMP course they definitely do NOT get stick time from what I have hear, but please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you

(1) Don't worry about flat feet. I could sneeze and get that waived.
(2) You have to submit an application package for FS and UMO. The biggest difference with UMO is passing the Diver PRT (500yd swim, pushups, situps, pullups, and 1.5mi run).
(3) USN is just as desperate for flight docs as the USAF. I just met a GMO doc for a Marine Light Attack squadron who got the billet because there were not enough flight surgeons to fill the slot!
(4) which medical school you went too make absolutely no difference in which GMO tour you get. Basically, if you meet the physical requirements for flight or dive, you will probably get it.
 
Hi Guys,

I'm a Army Nat'l Guard Medevac Pilot out of Reno, NV. I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan. I have been a Surgical Technologist for the past 9 years as my civilian job. I have always dreamt of flying and of being a doctor. The first I have accomplished, but becoming a doctor at this point (35 married with four kids) is almost a lost cause. I was considering going through the army's PA program...seems like a pretty sweet deal. Then becoming an APA and holding both the rated and PA jobs.

There is no precedence for this that I can find since the army has done away with the flight portion of their Flight Surgeon Program. Do you think that since I am already a rated commercial/inst pilot that the Navy or Air Force would let me fill a medical slot and a flight slot?

What about Air force PJs do they take PAs? I am already qualified in the UH-60. I would have to get in some serious shape, I'm in ok shape, but I am 35. Sorry this is a little off topic but do you guys know anyone that could shed some light on this? Thanks.

I would say your best chance is as a Navy Aeromedical Dual Designator. However, it says it is for physicians, physiologists, optometrists so PA might not work. Here is the link to the instruction:

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/Directives/01000%20Military%20Personnel%20Support/01-500%20Military%20Training%20and%20Education%20Services/1542.4D.pdf
 
Thanks so much, I figured one of the branches would have something where you could hold both, but I think you are right about no PAs...bummer.
 
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