All categorical positions for 2008?

[LurkNoMore]

I was speaking with an MS4 aiming to match into anesthesia this year and she said she was pretty sure that all anesthesia programs would be categorical starting next year. I have looked around on the net, ACGME et al and haven't found any indication that this is the case. Has anyone else heard anything akin to this or is it all in this one girl's (and now my) head?

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[TayShaun]

Yes, all programs will be categorical beginning in 2008 as far as I know.

 

[OB1🤙]

What I had heard on the trail was that beginning in '08 all programs will be required to offer some smallish amount of categorical spots, followed by a transition toward being entirely categorical within a few years. Not completely sure if this is accurate info or even who I heard it from, but it sounds reasonable.

 

[pgy13]

The first draft of the new guidelines did include a requirement to create categorical positions. This was rejected. The new guidelines certainly encourage, but do not require, categorical internships.

 

[ketafol]

I dont think it is possible for many programs to make all of their positions categorical. Think about it, Brigham and Womens has 30 advanced spots only. It they were to make these categorical, what are they going to do all of a sudden with 30 interns? A lot of places dont have the resources or space to do that.

 

[TayShaun]

I dont think it is possible for many programs to make all of their positions categorical.

This is a good point. However, I do remember talk on the interview trail about next year being categorical. Maybe that was just speculation. In any case I'm now curious what the answer to the OP's question is...I couldn't find answers on Google...

 

[pgy13]

Since my answer didn't work for you, feel free to look it up:

www.acgme.org

look under program requirements, for the new anesthesiology requirements (2008)

 

[fakin' the funk]

The first draft of the new guidelines did include a requirement to create categorical positions. This was rejected. The new guidelines certainly encourage, but do not require, categorical internships.

I read the guidelines and the closest it gets to "encouraging" categoricals is the following:

"The capability to provide the Clinical Base Year (CBY) within the same institution is desirable but not required for accreditation."

I assume that applicants/residents prefer categorical positions; is it the hospital admins and residency coordinators who oppose them because of a potential excess of interns?

 

[pgy13]

They would love the extra bodies, they just don't want to pay for them. Each hospital only has a certain number of residency slots, total, for all the programs put together. If you add more residents over the cap, the hospital or the department would have to pay. Or another department would have to give up some of their slots.

 

[Bertelman]

...and I heard this is the last year med students will have to take Step 2 CS.

 

[umlungu]

I am too lazy(no really I need to study ) to look up where I read it. That residencies would offer at least 1 categorical position by 2008. I believe it was on the ASA site a couple of months ago. That said let the rumors fly. Obsessing about the future is much more fun than obsessing about the present.

 

[pgy13]

I am too lazy(no really I need to study ) to look up where I read it. That residencies would offer at least 1 categorical position by 2008. I believe it was on the ASA site a couple of months ago. That said let the rumors fly. Obsessing about the future is much more fun than obsessing about the present.

Again, that was the first draft of the new requirements, which was rejected. Too much change too quickly.

 

[cleansocks]

Is there a list of programs that offer categorical spots currently and how many they offer? I checked both Frieda and ERAS and neither list this specifically. Frieda provides a "minimum number of years in program," which for some places is 4 (must be categorical), but those with 3 could offer both categorical and advanced positions. Also Frieda provides "offers prelim spot" but this does not necessarily mean that the prelim spot they offer is integrated into their advanced program (or does it mean that?).

Thanks.

 

[lane]

Is there a list of programs that offer categorical spots currently and how many they offer? I checked both Frieda and ERAS and neither list this specifically. Frieda provides a "minimum number of years in program," which for some places is 4 (must be categorical), but those with 3 could offer both categorical and advanced positions. Also Frieda provides "offers prelim spot" but this does not necessarily mean that the prelim spot they offer is integrated into their advanced program (or does it mean that?).

Thanks.

http://www.acgme.org/adspublic/

Click on Accredited Programs on the top of the menu on the left of the screen
Select Anesthesiology and the state for which you're looking

Select the program you're looking for, then look to the bottom right of the screen. There's a heading that says "ACGME FILLED POSITIONS (CATEGORICAL AND PRELIMINARY POSITIONS ONLY)"
Look at the number of positions for each year - you should be able to tell if they're categorical only (all 4 years are roughly the same enrollment), split (4 years represented with less in the 1st year), or only advanced (only 3 years represented).

I don't know of a place that simply lists the number of spots, but it probably exists... until then, this may help

 

[bubalus]

Is there a list of programs that offer categorical spots currently and how many they offer? I checked both Frieda and ERAS and neither list this specifically. Frieda provides a "minimum number of years in program," which for some places is 4 (must be categorical), but those with 3 could offer both categorical and advanced positions. Also Frieda provides "offers prelim spot" but this does not necessarily mean that the prelim spot they offer is integrated into their advanced program (or does it mean that?).

Thanks.

The info is in FREIDA if you look. Pay attention to program size in each of the years--do they show 1-3 (all categorical) or 1-4 (categorical +/- advanced), requires previous GME, offers prelim year, and the NRMP number (codes with A=advanced. codes with C=categorical).

Two examples to compare and contrast:
Washington University in St. Louis (categorical and advanced)
University of Alabama (advanced)

 

[cleansocks]

The info is in FREIDA if you look. Pay attention to program size in each of the years--do they show 1-3 (all categorical) or 1-4 (categorical +/- advanced), requires previous GME, offers prelim year, and the NRMP number (codes with A=advanced. codes with C=categorical).

Two examples to compare and contrast:
Washington University in St. Louis (categorical and advanced)
University of Alabama (advanced)

In the first paragraph, you mean 1-3 (all advanced) right?

It seems like at least 50% of the programs have not listed the statistics you mention, which do indeed clarify things if they are there. However, I'm confused on one variable. For Wash U, it says required length is 4 years. Why would it say that if they also offer advanced position spots, which require only 3 years to complete? A purely advanced position program lists "required # of years" as 3. I don't get it.

There also seems to be some discrepency between the freida website and acgme.org at least for one program.

Look at Cedars Sinai in CA. There is only the basic information on the freida page. It says "minimum length 4 years, accredited length 4 years." SO I might interpret that to mean it's entirely categorical. But if I look on acgme.org website for cedars, it leaves number of people in year 1 blank. Is that because they forgot to list the number of interns they take or because they don't actually offer a 1st year program currently, in which case there is a clear discrepency between the two websites?