All kinds of questions

[NatW]

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I'll introduce myself...
I am a wife and mother to two children and 28 years old. My husband and I have both made decisions to change our careers in the last year. He is finishing up his first recording project, and I am back in school. My plan is to go to medical school, but I will admit I have not had much success in finding anyone who can actually tell me much about the in's and out's of doing it this way.
We just moved to McKinney, TX, from Kansas City, MO, so my husband could be where he needed to be. I am in a community college for now since I am paying out-of-state tuition.
Here are some of my questions:
Am I really making a huge mistake going to a community college? I have two Bachelor's degrees already with a strong GPA. I just need to get my math and science prerequisites. I welcome any ideas you may have on the subject.
Also,...the MCAT... my original plan was to take it this coming August, but I just read somewhere that a person should take it in April and be one of the first to start the application process to med school in that year.
I guess what I want is for someone to tell me if they think this would work: I am taking Algebra I, Chem I, Biol I, and Physics I this spring. I will take Chem II and Biol II in the summer and prepare to take the MCAT in August. Then I thought I would start the appliation process and finsh taking the rest of my prerequisites. From some of the things I have read this really may not work, huh? I really need some advising.
One more thing...do you know anything about post-bacc programs?
Thanks for any help.
Natalie

 

[cocoabutter]

I would recommend that you purchase Medical School Admissions Requirements 2003-2004 (or wait until April to purchase 2004-2005). This book is published by the AAMC and contains everything you need to know. I know that some schools do not accept pre-reqs (bio, chem, physics, etc) from community colleges. I would also suggest talking with a pre-med advisor about what to do. Since you already have two degrees with a strong GPA, you should find out exactly what you need to take.

As far as your plan, I think that it would work. But I would make sure that the schools that you plan on applying to will accept your core classes from a community college.

Good Luck!

 

[gogiants]

it is definately not convenient financially but I think it would be a good idea to take your med school pre-reqs at a university (not a community college) as the last poster said. the community college credits will just not be looked at in the same way unfortunately. besides that, good luck.

 

[Ramoray]

Yes i would get out of the Community college and just bite the bullet on loans for a 4 yr college. It will be hard to swing that by when your applying taht all your pre requs were from a C.C, when most other applicants are from a four year, i think it would put you at a seroius disadvantage.. i know it sucks and they sometimes are totaly equal in difficulty but that is how this process is.. just is not fair.. I would do that however .. good luck! youll have some great things to write your essays and personal statement about it sounds like!

 

[Megalofyia]

NatW I sent you a PM.

 

[uffda]

you really should complete OCHEM before taking the MCAT.

 

[NatW]

So if my work at community college may be considered bunk, then what about this coming semester? Everything is in place. Do you think if I went to a four year university next fall to finish (after I establish TX residency) that will rectify previous work?
I have already taken out all the loans I can, and even saving money by going to a community college, we are barely making it. My husband's new business is not making any money yet and a part-time job is useless for either one of us because we spend more in childcare than we can make.
So...I really feel I have limited options here. I guess I had hoped that admissions committees could take in the whole picture...
Natalie

 

[abw]

Originally posted by uffda
you really should complete OCHEM before taking the MCAT.

I agree that you should take ochem first - about 75% of my bio mcat section was ochem. At the same time, it is possible to take the mcat before ochem - one of my friends wanted to take the april mcat for her application, but bc of study abroad she was going to take all of ochem over the summer. She wound up taking a kaplan course to learn the basics of ochem and lucked out with mostly bio in her bio section. She said her app. process was slowed down though because schools wouldn't review her app. until the ochem grades were in - so taking the april mcat didn't help get her app. in any earlier in the cycle.

 

[UCLAMAN]

I thought the new mcat was gonna be different? In addition to the scoring change for the verbal I thought they were getting rid of ochem?

 

[UCLAMAN]

Originally posted by NatW
So if my work at community college may be considered bunk, then what about this coming semester? Everything is in place. Do you think if I went to a four year university next fall to finish (after I establish TX residency) that will rectify previous work?

So...I really feel I have limited options here. I guess I had hoped that admissions committees could take in the whole picture...
Natalie

Since you are already enrolled perhaps you should just go through with it. However, you should definitely transfer to a 4 year univ in the fall. You need to demonstrate that you can handle 4year univ work before you apply. I just graduated in June and while I applying this year I took an anatomy course at the jc to expose myself to anatomy. Cakewalk. Set the curve without ever studying. No way I coulda done that at UCLA. There is a big disparity in the degree of difficulty at a JC/CC compared to a 4 year. Adcoms know this, so it is important you show you can handle the 4 year and do well. I'd say starting in the fall is fine...plus you'll have your winter quarter grades to put on your amcas as well. As long as those grades are mostly A's you'll be ok and adcoms will start looking at other aspects of your application.

 

[UCLAMAN]

Originally posted by NatW
I'll introduce myself...
Am I really making a huge mistake going to a community college? I have two Bachelor's degrees already with a strong GPA. I just need to get my math and science prerequisites. I welcome any ideas you may have on the subject.
Also,...the MCAT... my original plan was to take it this coming August, but I just read somewhere that a person should take it in April and be one of the first to start the application process to med school in that year.
I guess what I want is for someone to tell me if they think this would work: I am taking Algebra I, Chem I, Biol I, and Physics I this spring. I will take Chem II and Biol II in the summer and prepare to take the MCAT in August. Then I thought I would start the appliation process and finsh taking the rest of my prerequisites. From some of the things I have read this really may not work, huh? I really need some advising.
One more thing...do you know anything about post-bacc programs?
Thanks for any help.
Natalie

When are you applying? Are you applying this June for the 2004 entering class?(sounds like you are) If this is your plan make sure that you still have your amcas primary submited by June. This way you will already be getting your secondaries during the summer. After the aug mcat you want to have all of your secondaries and LORs in before mid/late sept. That way all the schools will be waiting for is your aug mcat scores which come out mid oct. You don't want to be filling out secondaries and sending LORs out in Oct. The only thing you want schools to wait for is your mcat score. Once they get them they can start reviewing.

However, rather than rushing the whole process perhaps you should consider applying for the 2005 entering class? Your app will be much stronger because you will have your 4yruniv grades and you will already have your mcat scores ready to go when the whole app process starts in June.

 

[Adcadet]

I'll answer what I think I can below.

Originally posted by NatW

Also,...the MCAT... my original plan was to take it this coming August, but I just read somewhere that a person should take it in April and be one of the first to start the application process to med school in that year.

I think it's more accurate to say that you should take the MCAT *no later* than April of the year you want to apply in. So if you want to take the August MCAT, see how you do, and retake in April if you think you should, I think that's a great plan for someone in your shoes.

I guess what I want is for someone to tell me if they think this would work: I am taking Algebra I, Chem I, Biol I, and Physics I this spring. I will take Chem II and Biol II in the summer and prepare to take the MCAT in August. Then I thought I would start the appliation process and finsh taking the rest of my prerequisites. From some of the things I have read this really may not work, huh? I really need some advising.

I would be hesitant to take Chem I before taking algebra. If you really don't know algebra, I would suspect you may have problems in Chem I. I think doing stoichiometry without a basic knowledge of algebra would be a pain. But ask somebody who knows - try the prof, and start reading the text book to see if you know the stuff well enough. I suspect you'll also need algebra for physics as well.

I also think it would be wise to take some upper level bio classes before the MCAT. I had advanced neurosci and immunology, which seemed to help a bit. I didn't have developmental bio, which seemed to hurt a bit. If you study dilligently, I'm sure you can pick up enough of these subjects to do just fine. It seems the MCAT only expects you to know basic physiology, basic genetics, basic immunology, basic developmental biology, etc etc. On the other hand, more coursework in biology can help you cement your knowledge of the basics (I know getting genetics in my genetics class, then again in physiology, then again in immunology was kindof nice review). Furthermore, you can learn more biological reasoning, which is important on the MCAT. But yourself a good MCAT review book, and read through each section as you take the appropriate class to make sure your class is covering everything you need. I know my classes skimped on a few things that I needed to study before I took the exam. Also, that way you'll realize if you need more depth in a particular area.

Also, be mindful of the course requirements for med schools - most will require you to take a certain number of bio credits and it sounds like you might be shy.


Hope that helps!

 

[Adcadet]

Originally posted by NatW

So...I really feel I have limited options here. I guess I had hoped that admissions committees could take in the whole picture...
Natalie

Hopefully they will look at the whole picture when the time comes. In the mean time, try as hard as you can to give them an absolutely great picture. It sounds like you're resourceful and motivated, which think will more than compensate for financial difficulty.


Nobody's mentioned this yet, but in addition to grades and MCAT, you also need to have some clinical/volunteer/research experience. If next semester you decide only to do algebra (which I suspect will be just fine at a community college), you could try to get some clinical/volunteer experience (it sounds like you don't have much of a science background, so perhaps research is out for a while).

 

[YaFwiendToluene]

first of all, to take the mcat, you need at least 3 semesters of biology, 2 physics classes and 2 semesters organic chemisty. Secondly, the schedule that you just listed looks BRUTAL. The guy above is right....if you don't have a sound understanding of algebra, then general chem 1 is gonna screw ya, physics 1 is DEFINATELY gonna screw ya..physics has applications that involve trigonometry....If ANYTHING, I definately suggest that you not start physics yet....you will only hurt and frustrate yourself...your not prepared prerequisite wise yet. You need to forget about the McAT too until you finish ALL of your prereqs.

Cya

 

[Wednesday]

Hey NatW,

First off, did you mean to say Algebra or Calculus? Most schools require a semester of calc, and as others have posted, the basic science classes required for applying to med school depend on a lot of the basic math that you wouldn't have had if you don't know algebra (and trig) and calc for that matter. So if you need to take algebra and everything after that, you will need more time to get ready to apply.

As for what to have when you take the MCAT, there are numerous threads on this board about this. Definitely do a search. My usual response to this question is that you shouldn't take the MCAT without having taken the prereqs (1 year Bio, 1 year gen. chem, 1 year physics, 1 year orgo, Calc) since everyone else taking the MCAT with you (and to whose scores your score will be based on) have already taken them. There are a few people who will dispute this, but I've never understood why anyone would willingly put themselves at such a disadvantage. The path to being a physician is a LONG one, taking the time to really be prepared to apply will be worth it in the end. (Take a look at an MCAT prep book, I did this before I started my post-bacc and it scared the **** out of me. Gave my premed classes real meaning.)

Post-bacc programs can be helpful. It depends what you're looking for. Since you're in McKinney, UTDallas is an option once you have residency in TX, but I don't know if they have a formal postbacc program. They are supposed to have an excellent premed program. As for taking classes at community colleges, don't get too discouraged by people on this board (this should be a general rule 🙂 ) there are plenty of other people on this board who did all their prereqs at comm. colleges and are now in med school. Whoever said talk to a premed advisor was right. Do that soon. Figure out your timeline and get excellent grades. And do some searches! You'll likely find answers to questions that you don't even know you have yet.

Good luck.

 

[NatW]

Man, I am so glad I found this place! I have been searching so long for someone who could give answers that make some sense.

Let me give you more of the situation:

I do have good Algebra skills, just not on my transcript. I think I can take Chem I and Physics at the same time I take Algebra. I do have a strong background in math (algebra and trig) just not on paper. I think I will be fine there. My GPA is 3.9. When I got my degrees before I took 25 hours a semester at a 4-year university and did very well. I could be underestimating things, but I am not too worried about this part. I think I can do well in all of my classes no matter where I take them.

I do feel myself changing my mind on the course of things though. I definitely want to be in a 4-year university by fall. I just can't imagine how I could go any sooner than that financially. I think I may still take the MCAT in August and maybe again in April (is that bad to take it more than once?) I probably should wait to apply for the next year.

Someone mentioned clinical and research experience. I do have some clinical experience, but I need more. Tell me about research experience. What kinds of things are people doing to satisfy that requirement?

Just out of curiousity, do you think my previous work experience has any bearing on anything? I used to teach school. Then I worked for the government (doing some pretty tedious math I might add.)

Just as someone else said, I am sure I have questions I do not even know I have yet. I'll try not to be too big of a nuisance😉

Thanks for your insights.
Natalie

 

[conure]

Nat,

Congrats on you decision to pursue this, I'm sure you will be happy you made this decision.

For the CC pre reqs I don't think its a big deal. As long as the school is accredited, then ad comms won't have an issue. Furthermore, if you do well on the MCAT (>=30) then you have shown you know the material. Check with some med schools that you think you might really like to be at and make sure that CC credits are cool.

My biggest concern is you time line. Don't rush! I know the feeling of being left behind or not getting moving can be overwhelming but really its a long process no matter what you do. Taking two classes over the summer, plus studying for the MCAT is very hard and you may burn out. Plus you really should have some ochem before the mcat. Contrary to what others have said ochem is not being elminated, just notched down to about 25-30 percent of the biological sciences.

You would be in a better frame of mind if you could take the MCAT in April 2004, applying to matriculate Fall 2005. This makes your plan a 2.5 year course including the lag year, and you may even be able to take ochem at a 4yr U if it matters that much.

Also you don't need any upper level bio for the MCAT, its all covered in a first year intro. class or molecular and genetics class.

And your background sounds great and you should have some good experiences to draw on for applications.

Oh yeah if SDN and its sometimes over accomplishing crew gets you down don't forget to check oldpremeds.com.

good luck

 

[Adcadet]

I'm not sure it's a big deal if your college transcripts don't list algebra. But you may need calculus. In that case, just make sure you can go into calculus and do well. If that means taking algebra at a CC to brush up on your skills, fine.

Re: research. Research is NOT required. But many schools seem to practically require research. I'm thinking of the University of Chicago-Pritzker mainly - one of their secondary essay questions asks specifically about research.

I'll make a few comments on types of research after I hit the lab - my rats need a pregnancy test stat.

 

[crazyA]

Whoever said take your time with these classes is correct. You have a lot of other things going on, and you don't want to burn yourself out this early. 28 is still young compared to a lot of people, don't feel that you have to rush yourself.

I'd say, unless you think you want to go to a top-10 med school, that you skip the research. With your limited time, I think you should do things that will educate you more about 'everyday' medicine, and will be more rewarding to you personally. Hospital work, volunteering, maybe an EMT course, etc.

And to repeat what others have said, DO NOT take the MCAT before you are adequately prepared. Most med schools have no problem with people taking it multiple times, but the biggest issue I've seen with people who take it earlier than they should is that it affects their confidence.

Also, don't worry too much about advanced-Bio classes. The MCAT is more of a 'thinking' than a knowledge test. I took the bare minimum of science courses, as did many of my friends, and we all did fine on it.

Try to talk to admissions committee members at school you are interested in (Texas state schools?) about what they think of community college classes. They can tell you better than we can if it will be necessary for you to transfer.

Good luck.

 

[mamadoc]

NatW, a couple of things - I'm sorta repeating the last few posts but I can't help it, I like to talk!

CC courses vary widely. Some are at least as rigorous as 4-year courses, some are a "cakewalk." The problem for med school admissions committees is that they don't know which yours was. If you took all your prereqs at a CC, and got a fantastic MCAT score, a lot of med schools would not be in the least concerned that your prereqs were at a CC. There are some med schools - Duke is one, I think - who won't accept CC courses. Most don't care, but the advice you got to check with med schools is the way to go.

You aren't as likely to get a pre-med advisor at a CC, though, and they *can* be a good resource. (also can be pretty useless, however)

Not sure why you're taking algebra. It is true that somewhere between 25-50% of medical schools require at least one semester of calculus, and I think the Texas schools are in that category. So if you're doing the algebra as a ramp-up to calculus, OK. Otherwise it's not something med schools will check on or care about.

You definitely need o-chem before you take the MCAT. You CAN take the MCAT successfully *while* completing O-chem (e.g. if your semester ends in May, and you take the MCAT in April). I wouldn't recommend taking the August MCAT while taking o-chem in the summer though - it's just too compressed a schedule. That said, I know people who've done it.

Finally, there is a difference between the "ideal" way to do it and the many, many ways people have actually done their preparation for and application to medical school. While it certainly helps to take the MCAT in April, for example, people can and do take it in August and many of them do just fine. Generally courses at a 4-year college are preferable, but there are absolutely, positively people in med school who did their prereqs at CCs. Bottom line: there is no one, absolute, guaranteed right way to do it.

Oh, and definitely check out www.oldpremeds.org - lots of folks there have taken "less than ideal" paths to med school.

Good luck to you!

 

[efex101]

Calculus is *NOT* required by most medical schools. A few do require Calculus (Duke comes to mind) but most do not. The OP has a good solid previous GPA, so getting a couple of classes done at a CC will not be as detrimental to her as if she had subpar GPA (and was trying to make up for that), and then she took the pre-reqs at a CC. Your best bet is to set up an appointment with various schools that you are interested in attending, and ask *them* what you are asking here (about the CC). Adcoms will be frank, and for many due to your great gpa it will probably not be an issue, for some it may but your best bet is to ask them directly regardless of what we think here on SDN. For sure go to www.oldpremeds.net and check some threads there regarding taking pre-reqs at CC, pay attention to what Judy Colwell (prior adcom for Stanford med) has to say regarding this issue.
Research is *not* necessary to gain entrance into medical school, but it does give depth to your application specially if you are applying to upper level schools. It seems that you are trying to rush a bit, and again this process is so long that taking your time will work in your favor, EXCEPT when it comes time to submit applications both AMCAS and secondaries, then the early bird gets the worm. I do think that your schedule for next semester is quite huge, but you know yourself better, and if you can tackle all those science classes with labs or not. Have you taken various science classes with labs together in one semester? gen chem and physics, plus algebra will be tons of work, and if you have a family your work will be even more, just my 0.2..

 

[Cacophony]

Natalie,

Are you going to try to go to medical school in the DFW area?
You might consider talking to the admissions offices of the schools in the area about what they think of the Community College courses on your transcripts rather than a state school's. (The admissions staff at TCOM in Ft. Worth is super nice and they might have a contact at UNT in Denton for you to talk to about premed requirements.)

If you are committed to taking the MCAT in August, I would take a prep course, but it sounds like your time and funds are limited. The best part of those programs is the resources they give you not the actual teaching. My recommendation is to buy a few books (you can often find a premed selling them for less $$ than new) and the AMCAS sample MCAT?s. Study on your own starting NOW and see how well you do on the samples. If you aren?t happy with your results, then take a course because you will have a better understanding of your weaknesses and strengths. Finding a study partner is also a plus. It is great to know someone else is having problems too.

Clinical research is a definite plus, but so is patient contact. Just do as much as you can fit into your schedule whether it is research or volunteering (My program recommended at least 100 hours of volunteer work during you postbac classes.) Have you thought about finding volunteer programs that you could involve your kids in? I don?t know if such a thing exists, but it would be worth researching.

Hope this helps a little. Good Luck.

 

[Sparkles]

Hey Nat! I read that you live in McKinney? That is cool, my parents live in Plano. If you have just moved to the area and want to go to school here in Texas (which I'm sure you do), just make sure you have established residency BEFORE you apply, or you will have to apply as a non-resident... Even if you will become a resident before matriculation, but after application, you will still be considered a non-resident for application purposes. Texas schools, with the exception of Baylor, take at least 90% Texas residents. Just keep this in mind.

Also, for most (if not all) Texas schools, they REQUIRE you take calculus before matriculation.

I hope I have helped you out a little bit here. I am applying to med school in Texas for the entering class of 2004 myself, so I have been reading up on the requirements and so forth. Feel free to PM me anytime, and good luck to you!

 

[efex101]

Okay, I had no idea that most Texas schools required Calculus. I guess I would not know since they have their own application and unless you are from TX it is quite unlikely that you will get in there. Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to AMCAS schools not requiring Calculus.

 

[::Seabass::]

yes, make sure you establish residency before you apply in texas. many, and I think most TX residents apply only to texas state schools, so you aren't hurting yourself by not filing through amcas. I did, and think it was a waste except for baylor to some extent. and texas schools love/want people who are dying to stay/come back to texas. I think very few people matriculate out of state. I saw the stat somewhere, but I'm too lazy to look for it now. It is a very low number however. Take a cruise throught the Texas Pre-Meds thread, it is very helpful and you may want to post in there whether or not people thought taking the august mcat the year they were applying hurt them. it did seem they got all their interviews bunched right at the end, and some seemed a bit frantic waiting for invites as the last interview dates approached. good luck!

 

[Adcadet]

OK, I'm back. None of my rats are pregnant 🙁

Research is a time-consuming black hole of time and energy. I find it enjoyable, and I know it really helped my app to med schools. But, as someone else said, it's not critical. To get in a lab you probably need to have a solid foundation in biology - and given your apparent lack of experience doing research, interest in getting through your reqs ASAP, and lack of interest in doing a full degree in biology, I would be very surprized if you could fit research into your schedule. So when it's time, find out if any of the schools you're interested in nearly require research - again, U of Chicago-Pritzker comes to mind (granted, they don't absolutely require research, but they sure do seem to be keen on us lab rats).

 

[Mutterkuchen]

To give my 2 cents. . . I think that it is unlikely that you will be able to get accepted into the 2004 entering class, based on what you have said. 2005 is much more likely.

Independent of the CC issues, you must take O-Chem as well, which was not a part of the schedule you mentioned. This is really not optional, since the concepts of organic chemistry are the root of medical science in many ways. Therefore it is tested heavily on the MCAT. I realize that they are making changes this year, but they are reducing o-chem by only 3 questions, I believe.

Medicine is a lifelong pursuit. There is no need to rush it too much. I realize that you have financial obligations, but you will have them during 4 years of med school, plus crappy residency. In the overall scheme, one extra year is not going to make much of a difference. I understand what you are going through, as a 29 year old married applicant (except that I don't have kids).

The application process is long and emotionally draining. You should do what it takes to enhance the possibility of getting in the first time.

 

[dr kevin40]

i need to get ot poast #700

 

[uffda]

Originally posted by UCLAMAN
I thought the new mcat was gonna be different? In addition to the scoring change for the verbal I thought they were getting rid of ochem?

nope. they are adding a few more genetics questions (e.g. 1 passage worth) and will likely sacrifice one of the Ochem passages to do it.

here is a link to the changes: MCAT Update

here is a link to the new topics list:
MCAT Topics

 

[Adcadet]

Uffda - I love that name! Perhaps it's due to where I grew up. But don't ask Mr.Kevin700. He obviously doesn't understand.