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Discussion in 'Internal Medicine and IM Subspecialties' started by abbycornish, Aug 20, 2011.
Moving to IM...
Can some one chime in on a couple of points (why this probably belongs in osteo)...
1. What is the COMLEX usually out of, and what percentile (ish) does 591 correlate to (average with SD would be useful)
2. Do osteos going allo have to take USMLE?
Yeah on the COMLEX the average score is 500 and 1 SD is 82 points, IIRC.
It's a respectable score but many allo programs would still obviously like to see a USMLE score.
Few allopathic PDs are going to know how to translate comlex scores, and they probably don't care either. My guess is not having a USMLE = getting your application screened out.
I, unfortunately, have zero clue
Look into community programs that have had DOs in the past. They'll likely take your COMLEX scores. I know this to be the case with my classmates when they were going through the match. A lot pre-matched where they rotated (community) and the rest went through the match. I imagine taking USMLE Step 2 would help open things up a bit. Also, rotating at a mid-tier university program.
I'm a DO that matched to a mid tier university program. I was in the exact same boat as the OP. I think your letters of recommendation will be huge. They do not have to be from someone well known, but someone who knows you well. Some programs will screen you out, but many will not and they will read your entire application and see if anything interests them. The personal statement also plays a role. Your COMLEX score is competitive.
You do NOT have to settle for an allopathic community program. I can't post a comprehensive list tonight, but I will try to tomorrow.
Best of luck and PM if you have specific questions. Will try to post a list tomorrow.
Thanks to everyone for their advice. Please keep it coming! And feel free to PM me if you think any more info will be able to give you a better sense of my odds.
This is good stuff. We really need more DO's posting in the IM forum. I simply have no good angle on how to give the best advice to my DO bros.
We also need a list in here of programs that will interview DOs and a further list of places where DOs matched.
Any idea how IM programs view an applicant with USMLE Step 2 scores only? Members in other forums (EM, Anesthesiology) seem to have been able to match with just USMLE Step 2.
Would it be advisable to apply with just the USMLE Step 2 scores, or do you guys think I should also send the programs my COMLEX 1 and 2 scores. My USMLE is considerably better than both of my COMLEX scores. Looking at university based IM programs.
Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks.
You can use a USMLE Step 2 to kind of bolster your COMLEX scores but you can't use it to completely replace them. You'll need a Step 1 of some kind (COMLEX or USMLE) to be considered by any allo program.
Ok thats kind of what I was thinking as well. Thanks a lot.
I get asked about to how to find out if a program is DO friendly a lot. First LOOK at the program's website to look for any relevant information to DO applicants or mention of COMLEX score. Then, the best way to find out is to email the program coordinator--NOT program director or to look at the program's website and see if any DOs are there (this is not always entirely accurate though). Most MD programs prefer a USMLE because they don't have to think how to compare two similar applicants. The best way is to email the program coordinator. Explain what school you are from and state that you want to stay in your respective state of interest.
For what's it's worth here is list of Internal Medicine DO friendly residencies that I made. If you have any others to add please do so in this thread. Also if people know for a fact that these programs are NOT DO friendly please add that also, as I know that things change.
Some DO friendly programs:
Providence Portland, Providence St. Vincent-Portland, Emmanuel Legacy-Portland, UC Irvine, UCSF-Fresno, USC (not as friendly in recent years), UNLV, University of New Mexico (require USMLE), University of Utah (require USMLE), Kansas University, Missouri-Kansas City, Missouri-Columbia, Nebraska, Texas A&M-Scott and White, UT-San Antonio, UT-Houston (prefer USMLE), Texas Tech-Lubbock, Texas Tech-El Paso, Texas Tech-Amarillo, Presbyterian-Dallas, Methodist-Dallas, UTMB-Galveston, Mayo Clinic-Rochester require USMLE), University of Minnesota, Hennepin-Minnesota, Aurora Healthcare-Wisconsin, hhWisconsin (prefer USMLE), Medical College of Wisconsin, Iowa-Iowa City, Iowa-Des Moines, Rush-Chicago, Loyola-Chicago, Illinois-Peoria, University Illinois-Chicago (prefer USMLE), University of Chicago-Northshore, Rosalind Franklin University, SLU (Southern Illinois University), Indiana University, Ohio State, St. Vincent Indianapolis, University of Cincinnati, University of Louisville, University of Kentucky, LSU New Orleans and Shreveport, Tulane-New Orleans (require USMLE), OU-OKC, OU-Tulsa, Arkansas, Mississippi, Virginia CommonWealth (VCU), East Virginia, Michigan State-Kalamazoo and East Lansing, Medical College of Georgia, UF-Gainesville (prefer USMLE, but good COMLEX (>600 have a good chance-also a rotation REALLY helps here; this was directly from the program coordinator), UF-Jacksonville, University of Miami-Jackson Memorial, University of South Florida (USF), MUSC (require USMLE), South Carolina Palmetto, Moses Cone, Carilion Clinic, Cleveland Clinic-Cleveland, Case MetroHealth-Cleveland, Drexel, Penn State, Temple (prefer USMLE), Drexel University-PA, Thomas Jefferson-PA, Albert Einstein-PA, Jefferson Medical College/Christiana Care-Delaware, UMDNJ-NJ, Yale, Georgetown (require USMLE).
Like gutonc said. USMLE Step 2 can be very beneficial for a DO application even if you do NOT have a USMLE Step 1 score. I talked to many programs through email that will accept only a Step 2 score if that is all you have. It will help the program directors compare you to a similar applicant without requiring much thought on their part.
But to be clear...if you're only going to submit a USMLE 2CK score you must also have COMLEX 1/2 scores to go with it. Submitting just a USMLE Step 2 (and nothing else) won't get you anywhere.
Agree with gutonc. Yes being a DO you must submit both COMLEX 1 and 2. If you take only USMLE step 2 this helps but you still must submit your COMLEX scores.
I don't believe that not taking USMLE is as much of a barrier as you think it is. You probably have a fair chance to get into the Long Island IM programs (Stony Brook, Winthrop, maybe North Shore-LIJ). Maybe look into Maimonides in Brooklyn, and Beth Israel, St. Luke's-Roosevelt, and Lenox Hill in Manhattan.
When I was a student, Maimonides was actually quite good. The teaching was solid and many of the faculty were very well known in academic circles (which is good when you need a letter of recommendation). They also have many fellowships in-house. Unless you absolutely hate Brooklyn or NY city it might not be a bad place to look into.
Does any one know anything about the PA and Upstate NY programs that are DO friendly? Specifically, how about:
Penn State Hershey
SUNY Upstate in Syracuse
Sisters in Buffalo
Catholic in Buffalo
Unity in Rochester
Would love to find out about teaching, exposure, resident interactions. Also was hoping to maybe tier them if possible. I was thinking tier I was down to Buffalo then Tier II Penn State to Geisinger then Tier III Lehigh Valley to Albany then the rest below that? Does this sound about right. Not looking for a super competitive place, but rather one that has good education, solid exposure, some chance for a fellowship after and of course being DO friendly. And before I get trolled, I have used the search feature, but most of what you get is all these people with 250's saying what are my chances at Penn, JHH, Brigham's, etc and that isnt the most realistic. Any and all input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Tulane IM does not accept DO, IMG, or FMG applicants
A. The Application
Make sure that you fulfill all of our admission standards:
1. Applicants to Tulane must be graduates from AAMC-accredited US medical schools who will have successfully completed their medical school curriculum with distinction by June of 2012.
2. We require successful passage on the USMLE Step 1 at the time of your application, and passage of Step II by the end of your medical school training. While the average board score for our residents is 232, there is no minimum board score for admission. We dont believe that a test score reflects the quality of a physician.
3. Admission to the residency program is solely through participation in the ERAS and the National Residency Matching Program (NRMP). No one is accepted for admission outside of the match. To apply, go to the ERAS site and complete the standard application. Make sure you are registered for the NRMP match.
Calm down. It's only September 1. I expect you will hear from more places in September/October. DO programs can't download the Dean's letter/MSPE until October 1 either.
I'm a DO but applying to only Allo programs. I have taken Both COMLEX I/II and Usmle step 1/2....do I have to send the comlex scores to the allopathic programs?
My scores are all good but I just don't see why a PD would care about my comlex is I did well on USMLE.
Apologies for the delayed response...
When I was applying for residency (the stone age) I recall receiving a slew of interview invites in late October, early November. It has to do with when the programs get around to downloading the applications, as cassrae mentioned.
Unless you did significantly better on the COMLEX, I don't think you need to. If anyone else feels differently please chime in.
To add to this, most school do not send the deans letter to ERAS until October. If you do not hear back from programs ~2 weeks into October, then you might want to get worried.
I got a few interview offers early on- like in September. These were only from my safety schools. The ones I was really gunning for waited until the dean's letter came out. I was worried early on (there were people who were posting about interviews they got from programs I applied to but hadn't gotten interviews from yet). However, when the dean's letter came out, I got a bunch of interviews in a short amount of time. Wait until then
You need to pass COMLEX Levels 1 and 2 and the COMLEX PE in order to graduate from an osteopathic medical school. That's pretty much the only reason an ACGME program director would need to know your COMLEX scores in addition to USMLE scores...if you do well on the USMLEs but can't graduate from school that would be a huge problem for the program on July 1st.