Other Allow doctors in the the US not in residency to help fill the gap in the COVID pandemic

[icykelp]

No anger here. Some people post incorrect information and get very sensitive when corrected.

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[Swampurt]

No anger here. Some people post incorrect information and get very sensitive when corrected.

Not sensitive. Alot of people are emotional they didn't match and want to head off into battle for a brief mention or personal statement in their application against COVID-19....which is wrong on many levels.

 

[Swampurt]

No anger here. Some people post incorrect information and get very sensitive when corrected.

Furthermore, alot of people want to play politics to get what they want...that too is wrong.

 

[Swampurt]

No anger here. Some people post incorrect information and get very sensitive when corrected.

Those that matched or already in residency, they need the support.
Those that didn't match....wait your turn even if it is a year.

 

[icykelp]

We seem to be on the same page when it comes to that. I thought I made that clear in my previous posts.

As for the ruling regarding foreign grads practicing with 1 year of GME, NYS has amended their laws recently.

Not sensitive. Alot of people are emotional they didn't match and want to head off into battle for a brief mention or personal statement in their application against COVID-19....which is wrong on many levels.

Edit: My posting here during a quarantine has not impacted my ability to serve in July. However, I appreciate your concern.

 

[Swampurt]

We seem to be on the same page when it comes to that. I thought I made that clear in my previous posts.

As for the ruling regarding foreign grads practicing with 1 year of GME, NYS has amended their laws recently.

Like I said before then...stop posting and get ready to help then
Quit whining like "female dogs and/or snowflakes" and do what you have to do the CORRECT way. Whining on a forum will not help anyone.

 

[deleted1041468]

As much as I think only US grads should match US residency positions I would never sign this. We all worked hard for a match no matter where you were educated. If you matched you matched. It shouldn’t be taken away period.

 

[Swampurt]

As much as I think only US grads should match US residency positions I would never sign this. We all worked hard for a match no matter where you were educated. If you matched you matched. It shouldn’t be taken away period.

Like I said before then...stop posting and get ready to help then
Quit whining like "female dogs and/or snowflakes" and do what you have to do the CORRECT way. Whining on a forum will not help anyone.

 

[deleted480308]

Like I said before then...stop posting and get ready to help then
Quit whining like "female dogs and/or snowflakes" and do what you have to do the CORRECT way. Whining on a forum will not help anyone.

You ok today?

 

[deleted1041468]

Like I said before then...stop posting and get ready to help then
Quit whining like "female dogs and/or snowflakes" and do what you have to do the CORRECT way. Whining on a forum will not help anyone.

Ugh you make absolutely no sense. I’d love to hear your lackluster explanation how my comment was whining.

Oh btw I am helping. I start in June. I matched. I didn’t take petition handouts. So I am hella signed up waiting for deployment to the battle field Sergeant. lol.

 

[Swampurt]

Ugh you make absolutely no sense. I’d love to hear your lackluster explanation how my comment was whining.

Oh btw I am helping. I start in June. I matched. I didn’t take petition handouts. So I am hella signed up waiting for deployment to the battle field Sergeant. lol.

Read what you just wrote. It reads...whining and/or politics.

 

[icykelp]

Ugh you make absolutely no sense. I’d love to hear your lackluster explanation how my comment was whining.

Oh btw I am helping. I start in June. I matched. I didn’t take petition handouts. So I am hella signed up waiting for deployment to the battle field Sergeant. lol.

He is an attending looking for a pgy-2 position. He reports posts for "prevention of false information" but posts false information anyway. Seems like he considers most posters here "whining female dogs and snowflakes."

Must be battle fatigue from being on the front lines.

 

[CaptainObviousX]

Not sensitive. Alot of people are emotional they didn't match and want to head off into battle for a brief mention or personal statement in their application against COVID-19....which is wrong on many levels.

Yeah I would expect anyone who didn't match to be emotional. I registered myself at California Health Corps , and would be eager to help in whatever capacity if it is needed. Things will likely get worse and extra manpower may be needed. Just cause the opportunity would benefit me, does not make it wrong. At this point I think we are all on the same page that people who match deserve their slots, and will get them, so we are not talking about stealing residency slots anymore.

 

[N000999]

I signed.
Nobody can control the visa process, it always happens.
It will be tragic for anybody, just like this Covid-19.
If "in case", if it happens, then increasing off-cycle match, the same.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Just signed this petition. While I already have a residency spot for this summer, this pandemic is a blessing in disguise and wish I was applying this cycle (would have been much easier now that no FMGs can apply). Maybe it's an act of God to finally prevent non-Americans from stealing jobs from actual citizens. Newsflash-there shouldn't be ANY Americans who are able bodied and certified to start residency out of work. The fact that there are 4200 of them or whatever is really infuriating. Glad to see that these non-US IMGs will hopefully no longer be able to come here for the foreseeable future and leave American doctors unemployed. Im just a little disappointed that it took the 21st century version of the black death to do it.

 

[icykelp]

Just signed this petition. While I already have a residency spot for this summer, this pandemic is a blessing in disguise and wish I was applying this cycle (would have been much easier now that no FMGs can apply). Maybe it's an act of God to finally prevent non-Americans from stealing jobs from actual citizens. Newsflash-there shouldn't be ANY Americans who are able bodied and certified to start residency out of work. The fact that there are 4200 of them or whatever is really infuriating. Glad to see that these non-US IMGs will hopefully no longer be able to come here for the foreseeable future and leave American doctors unemployed. Im just a little disappointed that it took the 21st century version of the black death to do it.

Lets make things really fair. American residency spots should go to AMERICAN doctors trained on AMERICAN soil. None of this riff-raff that trained at Hollywood Upstairs School of Medicology, School of Medicine, West Indies should be allowed to practice REAL medicine.

"...Newsflash-there shouldn't be ANY Americans who are able bodied and certified to start residency out of work. The fact that there are 3154 US-IMG and 4222 non US img or whatever is really infuriating. Glad to see that these non-US IMGs and US imgs will hopefully no longer be able to come here for the foreseeable future and leave American doctors unemployed. Im just a little disappointed that it took the 21st century version of the black death to do it...." etc etc

I hear you bro. None of the 2983 unmatched US-trained US doctors should go unmatched. Lets start with them foreign island school witch doctors sitting out the match.

They took yer jobs.

 

[Splenda88]

@Small Cell Carcinoma

I agree.

If a US citizen or permanent resident passed all the steps and has no character flaws, that individual should be able to find residency. Period!

The remaining spots should be left to IMG regardless they score 280 in both step 1/2. It's the ONLY country that make easy for foreigners to just parachuting and become physicians. We, the tax payers, foot the bills for these people to become physicians; therefore, they should be in front of the line.

It should be: US AMG > US IMG > Foreign AMG > FMG

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Lets make things really fair. American residency spots should go to AMERICAN doctors trained on AMERICAN soil. None of this riff-raff that trained at Hollywood Upstairs School of Medicology, School of Medicine, West Indies should be allowed to practice REAL medicine.

"...Newsflash-there shouldn't be ANY Americans who are able bodied and certified to start residency out of work. The fact that there are 3154 US-IMG and 4222 non US img or whatever is really infuriating. Glad to see that these non-US IMGs and US imgs will hopefully no longer be able to come here for the foreseeable future and leave American doctors unemployed. Im just a little disappointed that it took the 21st century version of the black death to do it...." etc etc

I hear you bro. None of the 2983 unmatched US-trained US doctors should go unmatched. Lets start with them foreign island school witch doctors sitting out the match.

They took yer jobs.

Yep I agree. American trained US grads first. Then US citizen IMGs (like myself). But someone who is a non US citizen should not be eligible to take expensive training positions that are funded by American taxpayers.

 

[icykelp]

Yep I agree. American trained trained US grads first. Then US citizen IMGs (like myself). But someone who is a non US citizen should not be eligible to take expensive training positions that are funded by American taxpayers.

The US has become the best of the best by accepting immigrants who are the best of the best.

You don't believe US citizens are given preference during the match process?

Unfortunately for you, no such ban on foreign IMGs exist. They were present in this match. They will be present in the 2021 match.

And no, a pandemic that has killed tens of thousands is never a blessing.

 

[deleted480308]

@Small Cell Carcinoma

I agree.

If a US citizen or permanent resident passed all the steps and has no character flaws, that individual should be able to find residency. Period!

The remaining spots should be left to IMG regardless they score 280 in both step 1/2. It's the ONLY country that make easy for foreigners to just parachuting and become physicians. We, the tax payers, foot the bills for these people to become physicians; therefore, they should be in front of the line.

It should be: US AMG > US IMG > Foreign AMG > FMG

I’m gonna disagree. Full meritocracy, have a better app if you want the spot

 

[Splenda88]

I’m gonna disagree. Full meritocracy, have a better app if you want the spot

I guarantee you if there was FULL meritocracy, you and I probably would not get into residency even if we both are AMGs. There is no FULL meritocracy in any aspect of life...

 

[icykelp]

I guarantee you if there was FULL meritocracy, you and I probably would not get into residency even if we both are AMGs. There is no FULL meritocracy in any aspect of life...

Of course there isn't full meritocracy. This is why a non US img often requires 250/250 to even stand a chance of matching into a spot compared to a US-img who may have significantly lower scores.

 

[Swampurt]

I guarantee you if there was FULL meritocracy, you and I probably would not get into residency even if we both are AMGs. There is no FULL meritocracy in any aspect of life...

That's snowflake behavior

 

[deleted1041468]

Read what you just wrote. It reads...whining and/or politics.

Lol. You aren’t even worth the reply or argument.

 

[Splenda88]

Of course there isn't full meritocracy. This is why a non US img often requires 250/250 to even stand a chance of matching into a spot compared to a US-img who may have significantly lower scores.

That's why I am saying to posters not to come up with that BS meritocracy argument here... We are all happy enjoying our privilege because we are AMGs and the moment the system become FULL meritocracy, we all will be in the front line complaining as well.

 

[Swampurt]

Lol. You aren’t even worth the reply or argument.

Uh huh....and? You are still whining like a snowflake.

 

[icykelp]

That's why I am saying to posters not to come up with that BS meritocracy argument here...

But the concept of meritocracy is fully valid, although not enforced 100%. If it were enforced 100%, there would be no distinction between US MD vs US DO, US IMG vs Non US IMG.

But what we instead have is a bias favored towards US MD > US DO > US IMG > everyone else.

This is the reality of the match process. We will never have true meritocracy. US citizens are already widely preferred over non-citizens.

But there are still non US applicants matching every year. And these people do it because objectively their apps were more appealing than other candidates that applied to the same position, hence some level of meritocracy is apparent here.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

The US has become the best of the best by accepting immigrants who are the best of the best.

You don't believe US citizens are given preference during the match process?

Unfortunately for you, no such ban on foreign IMGs exist. They were present in this match. They will be present in the 2021 match.

And no, a pandemic that has killed tens of thousands is never a blessing.

So what country are you from? Stay I want a job in that country-do you think your government would give it to me over a citizen of your country under any circumstance? I would probably bet no. Cause the interests of your citizens is more important than my own and I can go look for a job in my own country if I would like. The same should apply to you. We do not live in in a utopian full meritocracy. You are also not entitled to work or live here no matter how good you think you are at medicine. You probably did not need to complete 8 years of training to get your MD and it probably cost you a fraction of what it cost American citizens.

A non US-IMG applies for match and does not get a job gets a job in his own country and lives happily ever after.
A US-IMG applies for match and does not get a job is completely f*&@ed and has 300-400k in debt

Can you see the distinction now?

 

[Splenda88]

But the concept of meritocracy is fully valid, although not enforced 100%. If it were enforced 100%, there would be no distinction between US MD vs US DO, US IMG vs Non US IMG.

But what we instead have is a bias favored towards US MD > US DO > US IMG > everyone else.

This is the reality of the match process. We will never have true meritocracy. US citizens are already widely preferred over non-citizens.

But there are still non US applicants matching every year. And these people do it because objectively their apps were more appealing than other candidates that applied to the same position, hence some level of meritocracy is apparent here.

I want that bias the be 100% US AMG > US IMG > Foreign AMG > FMG...

4 tier match system...

 

[icykelp]

So what country are you from? Stay I want a job in that country-do you think your government would give it to me over a citizen of your country under any circumstance? I would probably bet no. Cause the interests of your citizens is more important than my own and I can go look for a job in my own country if I would like. The same should apply to you. We do not live in in a utopian full meritocracy. You are also not entitled to work or live here no matter how good you think you are at medicine. You probably did not need to complete 8 years of training to get your MD and it probably cost you a fraction of what it cost American citizens.

1) Canada

2) You are welcome to apply for a job there anytime.

3) Since you don't make the rules, you dont have any say in who gets to work in the US or not. The US was founded by immigrants. Can't find a job? Be better than the immigrants who took it from you.

4) I am not amazing at medicine. Thats why I went to an island second chance school. I did in fact spend 4 years in undergrad and 4 years in Hollywood upstairs school of medicology to earn my MD.

5) It cost me about $350,000 USD.

 

[icykelp]

I want that bias the be 100% US AMG > US IMG > Foreign AMG > FMG...

4 tier match system...

Well, we can't all get what we want, can we?

The match process will remain the same. If your app gets overlooked, make it better. Don't argue that your citizenship entitles you to a better spot. You are entitled to nothing. You earn it.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

1) Canada

2) You are welcome to apply for a job there anytime.

3) Since you don't make the rules, you have any say in who gets to work in the US or not. The US was founded by immigrants. Can't find a job? Be better than the immigrants who took it from you.

4) I am not amazing at medicine. Thats why I went to an island second chance school. I did in fact spend 4 years in undergrad and 4 years in Hollywood upstairs school of medicology to earn my MD.

5) It cost me about $350,000 USD.

My bad-since you made fun of Caribbean schools before I assumed you were from the Middle East or India. My apologies for that.

You are a minority of non-USIMGs though. Most are from South Asia/Middle East and they are basically a cancer to the system.

However my point stands. The fact that you want a training position that is funded by taxpayers in a country you are not a citizen of should make you less deserving of it compared to an American who also passed his boards.

 

[deleted1041468]

Uh huh....and? You are still whining like a snowflake.

Bro come on you didn’t even really match I just read through it all and you report nonsense. Please stop and grow up.

 

[icykelp]

My bad-since you made fun of Caribbean schools before I assumed you were from the Middle East or India. My apologies for that.

You are a minority of non-USIMGs though. Most are from South Asia/Middle East and they are basically a cancer to the system.

I really hope you are a troll. You think its ok to call doctors from South Asia / Middle East / India a "cancer to the system"?

I have worked alongside many of them in hospitals and they are brilliant. Much smarter than many of the carib folks.

It makes no difference if I was a non US img from Canada or Asia or Africa.

 

[Swampurt]

Bro come on you didn’t even really match I just read through it all and you report nonsense. Please stop and grow up.

I'm a practicing physician. Are you?

 

[Swampurt]

But the concept of meritocracy is fully valid, although not enforced 100%. If it were enforced 100%, there would be no distinction between US MD vs US DO, US IMG vs Non US IMG.

But what we instead have is a bias favored towards US MD > US DO > US IMG > everyone else.

This is the reality of the match process. We will never have true meritocracy. US citizens are already widely preferred over non-citizens.

But there are still non US applicants matching every year. And these people do it because objectively their apps were more appealing than other candidates that applied to the same position, hence some level of meritocracy is apparent here.

This reads like a "snowflake..."

 

[Splenda88]

Well, we can't all get what we want, can we?

The match process will remain the same. If your app gets overlooked, make it better. Don't argue that your citizenship entitles you to a better spot. You are entitled to nothing. You earn it.

My point was that we are ok with it because it favors us. I don't want people to pretend there is some altruistic motive behind their stance. I am happy the system protect me because I am an AMG, but I am not going to pretend it's a fair system full stop.

 

[Swampurt]

Until you match or find a cure for COVID-19, you have no basis in commenting.

Bro come on you didn’t even really match I just read through it all and you report nonsense. Please stop and grow up.

 

[Swampurt]

My point was that we are ok with it because it favors us. I don't want people to pretend there is some altruistic motive behind their stance. I am happy the system protect me because I am an AMG, but I am not going to pretend it's a fair system full stop.

This kinda reads like a "snowflake..."

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

I really hope you are a troll. You think its ok to call doctors from South Asia / Middle East / India a "cancer to the system"?

I have worked alongside many of them in hospitals and they are brilliant. Much smarter than many of the carib folks.

It makes no difference if I was a non US img from Canada or Asia or Africa.

It makes a difference. Most doctors from Africa/Asia are already attendings with comfortable lives in their home countries when they apply to residency. They are thereby compromising someone else's livelihood and future in the process by stealing American jobs.

 

[icykelp]

This reads like a "snowflake..."

I suppose everything reads like "snowflake" when you can't find a pgy-2 spot.

 

[Swampurt]

It makes a difference. Most doctors from Africa/Asia are already attendings with comfortable lives in their home countries when they apply to residency. They are thereby compromising someone else's livelihood and future in the process by stealing American jobs.

Agreed!!

 

[Swampurt]

That's why I am saying to posters not to come up with that BS meritocracy argument here... We are all happy enjoying our privilege because we are AMGs and the moment the system become FULL meritocracy, we all will be in the front line complaining as well.

Ooohh! This reads like a "snowflake..." "Privilege...." lol.

 

[icykelp]

It makes a difference. Most doctors from Africa/Asia are already attendings with comfortable lives in their home countries when they apply to residency. They are thereby compromising someone else's livelihood and future in the process by stealing American jobs.

Why should a program director pick a carib doctor with an insane debt over an African doctor who may have been the best in his class/country? The patients deserve the best care. Patients dont care about what your debt burden is.

Our decision to roll the dice by going to an offshore school spending close to half a million has no bearing on who gets the residency spot. The best candidate gets the job. Nothing was stolen.

 

[Swampurt]

I suppose everything reads like "snowflake" when you can't find a pgy-2 spot.

You arent looking hard enough.

 

[Splenda88]

Why should a program director pick a carib doctor with an insane debt over an African doctor who may have been the best in his class/country? The patients deserve the best care. Patients dont care about what your debt burden is.

Our decision to roll the dice by going to an offshore school spending close to half a million has no bearing on who gets the residency spot. The best candidate gets the job. Nothing was stolen.

Not true. My program has a cut off for AMG and IMG. Again, it's not a meritocracy system. We are ok with it the way it is because it favors us.

I will take myself as an example. I am an AMG and I apply in November 22nd 2017 (75 programs) with mediocre score (~220 step1 and mid 220s step2) and still get 9 invites and matched #2 university program. Do you think an IMG can afford to do that?

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Why should a program director pick a carib doctor with an insane debt over an African doctor who may have been the best in his class/country? The patients deserve the best care. Patients dont care about what your debt burden is.

Our decision to roll the dice by going to an offshore school spending close to half a million has no bearing on who gets the residency spot. The best candidate gets the job. Nothing was stolen.

I would hardly believe there is any way you could objectively determine that some applicant from the University of Abuja in Nigeria is a better candidate than an American. He probably finished his degree in 5-6 years, worked in a questionable healthcare system, and probably spent YEARS studying to get a passing score on the USMLE (as many FMGs do).

But the USMLE are competency exams and nothing more (as the new P/F change suggests). So what is telling you they are better candidates exactly? From a realistic standpoint US-IMGs and non-USIMGs both are subpar candidates, but at least US-IMGs have a legitimate reason to be here and fill the bottom of the barrel community programs that nobody wants.

 

[deleted480308]

I guarantee you if there was FULL meritocracy, you and I probably would not get into residency even if we both are AMGs. There is no FULL meritocracy in any aspect of life...

If I didn’t earn it, I shouldn’t get it. The notion of banning imgs is a bad idea. I’m all for lessening the stigma on them

 

[icykelp]

I would hardly believe there is any way you could objectively determine that some applicant from the University of Abuja in Nigeria is a better candidate than an American. He probably finished his degree in 5-6 years, worked in a questionable healthcare system, and probably spent YEARS studying to get a passing score on the USMLE (as many FMGs do).

But the USMLE are competency exams and nothing more (as the new P/F change suggests). So what is telling you they are better candidates exactly? From a realistic standpoint US-IMGs and non-USIMGs both are subpar candidates, but at least US-IMGs have a legitimate reason to be here and fill the bottom of the barrel community programs that nobody wants.

University of Abuja is probably better run than SGU. And probably has better faculty as well.

Like I have mentioned before, do you not realize there is an implicit bias which favors US grads and US-imgs?

So how terrible do you think the US-img must be if the grad from "University of Abuja" who worked in a "questionable healthcare system" gets chosen over the US-img?

 

[Splenda88]

If I didn’t earn it, I shouldn’t get it. The notion of banning imgs is a bad idea. I’m all for lessening the stigma on them

Where did I say they should ban IMGs