almosted finished with HSPS App...ADVICE!

[dbutz02]

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I've been working on this application process for awhile and I've been asking questions to the wrong people apparently...my recruiter. There never seems to be a negative aspect of the HSPS and obviously he is paid to fill his quotas and make me feel like I'm making a sound decision. So I need an unbiased opinion and after reading through a lot of these threads I'm getting cold feet and am starting to think the debt won't kill me.
What's the biggest draw back of the HSPS...I've heard a lot about being on GMO tours...is this directly after your internship or medschool where they don't let you go to residency because they need you somewhere else? What's the whole deal there?
How little control will I have over the next 8-12 years of my life?
Will I be able to choose my residency? (after match obviously)
How poor are the army locations? I've heard they are just awful.
I have good numbers...33p, 4.0...some average EC's...my recruiter said I basically have the scholarship...but I'm not sure if it's for me.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Croooz]

Better questions are not how bad the military is but why are you taking the money? How much are you looking at borrowing if you don't take the HPSP? How pressed are you to go straight into a residency? How flexible are you if you don't get your first choice of residency? How much control over your future are you willing to give up? Do you have any moral issues with being a pseudo-officer first and physician second? How much of the "game" of military medicine are you willing to play?

Then come the easy questions....

Have you ever been in combat? Do you want to experience what that feels like? Are you willing to go WHEREVER the military sends? Not that that matters after you sign up but you are at the mercy of the military.

The other side is:
Do you want to work with healthy men and women who do some extraordinary jobs for low pay? Are you willing to go the extra mile to serve them...money coming out your own pocket sometimes?

Come up with answers to some of these and you should see a trend in your answers....Hope this starts steering you in the right direction for you.

 

[dbutz02]

Interesting questions you've raised and I guess I came off extremely negative in my post, which was not my intentions I just want to be informed and I don't feel my recruiter is being completely honest with me. Thank you for the questions they definitely give me something to ponder.

 

[kaikai128]

One thing that I looked at when I was looking @ HPSP was the differnt branches and the advantages and disadvantages of each one. I spoke to physicians in each branch (both current and past) and based my decision on what factors I felt were most important. You mentioned Army but you didn't say for sure which branch you were applying to.

Some people may be able to better answer your questions if you ask within your branch--as some things vary from branch to branch.

Finally, speak to physicians, dentists, and other military healthcare workers. Get their opinion on it--make the decision that is best for YOU. My recruiter was able to give me some contact information on some people who got me into contact with others. If you don't trust your recruiter start asking around in a local hospital---many of the local physicians where I live were HPSP recipients.

 

[AubreyMaturin]

I am currently debating about HPSP, and the way I look at is this:
After med school + internship, I will opt for a GMO tour in the NAVY where (if I am lucky) I will be able to gain a unique experience as a Dive or Flight doctor. When I am finished, I can decide wether to take the extra commitment and do a residency, or finish my obligation and get out to do my residency as a civilian.

One thing to consider is that there seems to be a MUCH more variety of residency and fellowship opportunities in the civilian world.
Go to:
CareerMD.com
then compare the choices of residency/fellowship with the choices on the military pages. The Navy page is at the top of this chatboard.

So taking the money and paying the time may be OK as long as you want to serve in the armed forces, and are not just trying to pay for college. Forget about the money and see if you still want to do it.

Loans suck, but it seems to be a break even propostition finacnialy over a 10-15 year period. The only way you will earn more (including scholarship) in the service is if you are a family doc/ GP. And if you want to be a surgeon or higher payed subspecialist, you will actually make significantly less. The loans can be paid and you can be free!

I admit that not having to worry about money during med school is a huge incentive. But run the numbers and do some research, in the immediate future you may be better off finacnialy as a civie.

My Bias:
I am definitely going to join the Navy through the HPSP or by attending USUHS, so I may be repeating some of the sugar coated crap that you recruiter is giving you becasue I am all for joining the service.

 

[dbutz02]

Yeah there are a lot of aspects of serving this country that would make me very happy but when looking at my future I see a family and choices... the more I think about it having the Army, which is the branch I'm applying to, control some of those choices seems like a large price to pay. So basically I think I'm going to inform my recruiter that I am no longer interested. I have to admitt I feel like bad for all the time he's spent working on this but it's just not for me.
Good luck everyone and thanks for all the advice.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

I am a surgery resident right now, but back in the day (1998-9) I went through the application process for HPSP, and in the end decided against it. At the time I was concerned that joining the army would potentially restrict my options as far as training/work.

At my residency program this year, one of the chiefs was all set to start a very competitive fellowship. He just found out that he will not be able to do the fellowship because the army wants its payback now, not in two more years. He is pretty disappointed, but of course he realizes that this was part of the deal. Still, it really sucks because he will likely not be able to do the fellowship for several years, if at all.

Financially the HPSP is unnatractive. Unless you go into family practice, in the long run you will lose a lot of money, and potentially opportunity (and even more money). As someone who financed his medical education with loans, I have to say that med school was not any more rigorous for me than it was for my classmates. I have significant loans though, but I will be able to pay them back easily, AND have control over my career.

If you are really gung-ho about joining the military, and don't care about your financial fufture too much, then HPSP might be a good option for you. If you are looking for a way to pay for med school only, then loans are a much better option. The HPSP is really just another loan, but with a MUCH bigger interest rate... I suggest that if you really want to serve your country in the military, and want to be a physician, then get your education and training FIRST, and then go see the recruiter. To me, there is absolutely NO advantage to HPSP, compared to the route of training first, and then joining.

If you are just absolutely dead set on joining up with the HPSP, and getting in now, then before you sign on the dotted line, consider the national guard option in your home state. I have a cousin in med school, who is in the national guard, and the terms are much more relaxed than HPSP. Less money, but a lot more control over your future, and you still will get to satisfy your military desires now rather than later.

Finally, if service to your country is the driving force behind your HPSP plans, consider that there are umpteen ways to serve your country other than putting on an army uniform.

best of luck

 

[xathanx]

It seems like everyone is pretty much against it. Whats the difference in salary between the military and other doctors.

 

[Neuronix]

At my residency program this year, one of the chiefs was all set to start a very competitive fellowship. He just found out that he will not be able to do the fellowship because the army wants its payback now, not in two more years. He is pretty disappointed, but of course he realizes that this was part of the deal. Still, it really sucks because he will likely not be able to do the fellowship for several years, if at all.

I forgot to mention before that on my return x-mas flight from Seattle to Philadelphia there was a HPSP Army grad in a pediatrics residency in the seat behind me. I overheard in her conversation that due to the demand for Army docs, her and none of her Army HPSP peds friends were being given permission to persue fellowships. Yet another thing to think about...

 

[Croooz]

It seems like everyone is pretty much against it. Whats the difference in salary between the military and other doctors.

$100K-$250K

If FP is your thing then your pay will be comparable. Otherwise you are taking quite a paycut. Don't let the "taxable income" advocates dissuade you. Believe me that the pay is no where near comparable for specialties other than FP and Peds.

 

[militarymd]

celiac plexus is not x-mmd in disguise.

 

[GMO_52]

$100K-$250K

If FP is your thing then your pay will be comparable. Otherwise you are taking quite a paycut. Don't let the "taxable income" advocates dissuade you. Believe me that the pay is no where near comparable for specialties other than FP and Peds.

You can probably add IM, Neurology and a few of the IM subs (Rheum, etc). At least, they're paid about the same here in the superbad San Diego market. The post-residency pay is significantly lower for most specialties, but to rigorously evaluate the pay difference, you have to factor in the pre-staff pay and the lack of debt. Also, for those of us who do fellowships, getting staff pay as a fellow is a big plus and by being a USU grad, wouldn't increase my committment. For my individual case, assuming I do an IM fellowship other than Cards, it makes financial sense to have taken this route. I've done the math pretty carefully and I've used the money earned early to do some real estate investing in San Diego over the past few years. But the above post is right, the military is never going to pay a pain doc or a vascular surgeon $500k+.

 

[Croooz]

GMO,
I hope you weren't including yourself in the "taxable income" advocates. These are the people who just arbitrarily make their decision because of some initial tax break they see. What you did is right on. Taking into account everything to include the lack of debt. Making the real-estate investments was also very smart. You might want to give a class or something. The number of doctors I know who come in with zero medical school debt yet leave the service with only their last paycheck or at the most $10-15k is ridiculous. No excuse for it.