Alternative opportunities in medicine or pharmacy

[Rabbit99]

First question:
I hadn't been able to score well enough on the MCAT and my current choice is pharmacy school.
It would require a lot of time and effort to prepare for the MCAT again (now the new and longer version) and so I'm just wondering if it's a good idea. I didn't want to head into pharmacy with possible regret, or fail another attempt at the MCAT. Thinking of working sooner, which degree, MD/DO or PharmD, would allow us to have more diverse options in terms of what to do after the four years besides the typical residency (for MD) and practice for (PharmD)? In other words how realistic is it to find a long-term job with the degree itself without additional training? (For instance, anything in research, industry, teaching, etc. )

Second question:
Is schooling for medical school much more difficult in terms of volume of material, expectations, competition, grading, etc. Although medicine seems more difficult, competition among pharmacy students seem to exist to a certain level as well. Sometimes it seems as if I have the grades and experience for medical school, it might be best to give it another fair try.

To sum up, doors that open with MD/DO or PharmD- in case I don't want residency or retail is saturated, and going through school for either one, are two important factors for me to decide on what to do.

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[AcademicNeurosurgery]

First question:
I hadn't been able to score well enough on the MCAT and my current choice is pharmacy school.
It would require a lot of time and effort to prepare for the MCAT again (now the new and longer version) and so I'm just wondering if it's a good idea. I didn't want to head into pharmacy with possible regret, or fail another attempt at the MCAT. Thinking of working sooner, which degree, MD/DO or PharmD, would allow us to have more diverse options in terms of what to do after the four years besides the typical residency (for MD) and practice for (PharmD)? In other words how realistic is it to find a long-term job with the degree itself without additional training? (For instance, anything in research, industry, teaching, etc. )

Second question:
Is schooling for medical school much more difficult in terms of volume of material, expectations, competition, grading, etc. Although medicine seems more difficult, competition among pharmacy students seem to exist to a certain level as well. Sometimes it seems as if I have the grades and experience for medical school, it might be best to give it another fair try.

To sum up, doors that open with MD/DO or PharmD- in case I don't want residency or retail is saturated, and going through school for either one, are two important factors for me to decide on what to do.

This may not be what you want to hear but I suggest pursuing your passion. Doors will open when you are passionate about your work and work hard. The fields are very distinct and there are opportunities to succeed in both. Generally speaking, the pharmacy job market is tougher than the physician job market but there are still ways to excel in pharmacy. Your statement about preparing for the MCAT being a lot of effort...that is a decision only you can make but just remember that MCAT preparation (which is what, 2-3 months?) is a drop in the bucket to pursue the career of your dreams. It seems like you are more interested in medicine than pharmacy so are you really willing to settle for a 25-30 year career in pharmacy because you don't want to put in a few months for MCAT prep right now? Also, I do believe there are some US schools who do not require the MCAT or have a more holistic approach (i.e. less stringent MCAT requirement).

In terms of difficulty of pharmacy school versus medical school - this has been discussed extensively on this forum before so do a quick search. My two pennies is that the one you enjoy less will be harder. I would do terrible in pharmacy school because I am just not interested in that field; I am appreciate that there are people who find it interesting.

It is hard to give more specific advice without knowing more details about your situation, but that discussion is probably better suited for pre-allo.

 

[Rabbit99]

Thank you for the feedback!
I didn't know exactly where to post this but it just seems like people who have had the actual experience in school would have more insight than those on the pre-med forum. This is not a complaint but in reality, I still have a passion for medicine and there are personal reasons (not salary or prestige)
But after a couple of failures, I don't think med school route, at least for now, is workable anymore... I imagine something crazy like pharmD to PA once I have the motivation but would that be a waste of investment? Dept is dept and I'm not a luxurious person so I'm happy with just having enough as I proceed through a career. At the same time I do have a passion for pharmacy so I still have a reason to 'settle' for it. Or should I do PA ? I'm not sure what to do- which degree requires more mental/brainwork?

 

[W19]

If you have passion for medicine, give it another try...

No need to mention that it's not for money/prestige. People have different reasons for going into medicine...

 

[calirph]

Thank you for the feedback!
I didn't know exactly where to post this but it just seems like people who have had the actual experience in school would have more insight than those on the pre-med forum. This is not a complaint but in reality, I still have a passion for medicine and there are personal reasons (not salary or prestige)
But after a couple of failures, I don't think med school route, at least for now, is workable anymore... I imagine something crazy like pharmD to PA once I have the motivation but would that be a waste of investment? Dept is dept and I'm not a luxurious person so I'm happy with just having enough as I proceed through a career. At the same time I do have a passion for pharmacy so I still have a reason to 'settle' for it. Or should I do PA ? I'm not sure what to do- which degree requires more mental/brainwork?

I'm a pharmD that's currently in medical school (MD), and I have to say that pharmacy and medicine are a lot more different than I thought they would be. My best advice would be to follow what you're passionate about. I had always wanted to be a physician and sort of settled on pharmacy for various reasons but I quickly realized it was no substitute for medicine. I had even planned on becoming a "clinical pharmacist" (i.e. doing a pharmacy residency) but again on my clerkships realized that it was, for me, no substitute and not fulfilling. Medicine was always my passion and I can state that I'm so happy that I decided to pursue medicine, and that I have no regrets now that I'm in medical school. So in short, my advice is to do what you are passionate about

 

[calirph]

This may not be what you want to hear but I suggest pursuing your passion. Doors will open when you are passionate about your work and work hard. The fields are very distinct and there are opportunities to succeed in both. Generally speaking, the pharmacy job market is tougher than the physician job market but there are still ways to excel in pharmacy. Your statement about preparing for the MCAT being a lot of effort...that is a decision only you can make but just remember that MCAT preparation (which is what, 2-3 months?) is a drop in the bucket to pursue the career of your dreams. It seems like you are more interested in medicine than pharmacy so are you really willing to settle for a 25-30 year career in pharmacy because you don't want to put in a few months for MCAT prep right now? Also, I do believe there are some US schools who do not require the MCAT or have a more holistic approach (i.e. less stringent MCAT requirement).

In terms of difficulty of pharmacy school versus medical school - this has been discussed extensively on this forum before so do a quick search. My two pennies is that the one you enjoy less will be harder. I would do terrible in pharmacy school because I am just not interested in that field; I am appreciate that there are people who find it interesting.

It is hard to give more specific advice without knowing more details about your situation, but that discussion is probably better suited for pre-allo.

Also as far as difficulty between the two, both are just asdifficult but for different reasons as the focus of what you learn in pharmacy school is very different than the focus of what you learn in medical school.
In medical school you have to learn EVERYTHING from microanatomy, physiology, pathology, anatomy, pharmacology, etc. The biggest difference I've found is that in medical school we are really focusing on understanding in depth the disease process, the physiology of the disease and not really treatment (to some extent). Whereas in pharmacy school we never delved deep into physiology and pathology (also no microanatomy or anatomy)- this is probably 10% of what you learn. you focus solely on treatment with a BIG focus on learning treatment guidelines (probably 30% of what you learn) of course you learn the pharmacology in depth including indications for use of medications, contraindications, etc. I have to say in medical school we haven't learned any guidelines so far the way we did in pharmacy school (I'm still in my pre-clinical years). Also the pharmacology I'm learning in medical school in a cake walk compared to the depth of what it was in pharmacy school.

Both are very different but equally difficult

Hope that was helpful!

 

[calirph]

Also one last thing I want to just add is that I've found in medical school you really learn the "why" and the "how" whereas in pharmacy school I was taught something about why a certain disease does x or y but didn't learn the why or the how to the extent I am in medical school. I know some people argue that a lot of what you learn in the pre clinical years is unneccessary but I really think that what we are learning during these preclinical years is a way of thinking that, in my opinion, truly separates us from other non-physician providers. Again we are learning the why and the how to the extent that we will be able to critically reason our way through to manage our patients the way that we do instead of just following algorithms if that makes sense

There have been quite a few times during medical school where things I learned about medication side effects in pharmacy school, for example, actually made sense to me because I was learning the pathophys of a certain disease process, whereas in pharmacy school I just learned the adverse effect and didn't learn why

Anyways sorry for the long posts but I hope this has been helpful to you and others in your shoes

 

[Rabbit99]

Thank you so much!

 

[ACSurgeon]

First question:
I hadn't been able to score well enough on the MCAT and my current choice is pharmacy school.
It would require a lot of time and effort to prepare for the MCAT again (now the new and longer version) and so I'm just wondering if it's a good idea. I didn't want to head into pharmacy with possible regret, or fail another attempt at the MCAT. Thinking of working sooner, which degree, MD/DO or PharmD, would allow us to have more diverse options in terms of what to do after the four years besides the typical residency (for MD) and practice for (PharmD)? In other words how realistic is it to find a long-term job with the degree itself without additional training? (For instance, anything in research, industry, teaching, etc. )

Second question:
Is schooling for medical school much more difficult in terms of volume of material, expectations, competition, grading, etc. Although medicine seems more difficult, competition among pharmacy students seem to exist to a certain level as well. Sometimes it seems as if I have the grades and experience for medical school, it might be best to give it another fair try.

To sum up, doors that open with MD/DO or PharmD- in case I don't want residency or retail is saturated, and going through school for either one, are two important factors for me to decide on what to do.

The answer to your question is heavily based on your values. What do you care about the most? Enjoying your youth? Feeling like you've accomplished the "best" academic goals? Job stability and comfortable life? The day-to-day aspects of the job?

Also, it depends on what's feasible and practical. Not knowing much about your situation, there's a difference between you performing poorly on the MCAT because of a global academic deficiency (poor foundation in the sciences) hence being difficult to overcome OR if it was a matter of suboptimal exam prep, which you should be able to overcome.

#1: do NOT go to Med school unless you plan to do a residency and practice clinical medicine. Job market with a PharmD or PA is much better than MD without residency. Otherwise, MD with residency offers endless opportunities, stability, better pay etc.

#2 Med school is harder than pharm school. I can't speak to the curriculum, but there are less breaks during medical school compared to pharmacy school. I can't emphasize the psychological and emotional toll medical education takes on you and your family. Compared to my friends and family who went to pharm school, I've missed out on way more life events, and spent 6-8 years longer to complete my journey (with NO wasted time). You might think 6-8 years isn't much, but that's the difference of having your part of your 20's to enjoy your stable job and start building wealth vs not. Also, med school semesters have more credits. Clinical years are more rigorous and not infrequently demoralizing. Few people work during med school, many work during pharm school.

#3: don't go to pharm school if you think it's likely you'll want to go to PA school afterwards to gain satisfaction. Take 1-2 years now and shadow, reflect and make the correct decision. 2 years of PA is not a bad way to go. You don't make enough money as a pharmacist or PA to pay back loans from 2 professional degrees.

#4: your perspective will evolve as you go through the process. Ultimately whatever you think is best now might not seem so in 10 years. If you work hard and go to Med school, you might regret it if you burn out and miss your 20's and part of your 30's. If you don't go to med school, you might regret not accomplishing your maximum potential. Whatever you decide, you should do it and not look back, and just realize that niether option is perfect, and there are sacrifices to be made either way.

I just completed my general surgery training. I'm very excited to be a doctor and start my new job in a month. A few months ago I had to decide between a potentially more fulfilling/exciting academic job or one with better work/life balance and better pay while still being clinically enjoyable. For the first time, I chose to have my career work for me, instead of continuing to work for my career. Still a bittersweet decision. That's life, trade offs exist with every decision.

 

[Rabbit99]

 

[ACSurgeon]

@lazymed general surgeon and work/life balance! can these two stuff go together?

Most general surgeons have reasonable work life balance. This is not to be confused with "cush" life or having banker hours (minus some academic breast/endocrine/ bariatric surgeons).

The problem with surgery is the unexpected nature. A patient with a complication can come during any night/weekend/holiday. So you're always at risk of being called in or staying late.

Community surgeons usually cover their own patients 24/7 unless out of town. Despite that, they still have hobbies and make many or most important life events.

Academic surgeons will often have one surgeon covering the group so have even more predictability.

The last 5-10 years, there's been a wave of acute care surgery jobs. These entail working 90-100 shifts (24 hr home call) per year, and havig some low stress clinical duties (rounding, clinic for f/u) for another 50-100 days a year, and being off the rest of the year. So, you work hard when you're on, but get a lot of time off instead. Hence, a work life balance, although not derm like.

 

[pharmrx33]

As aforementioned, it really depends on your passion. I just graduated pharmacy school and am about to start my pharmacy residency here in the next two weeks! Eek!

I never truly contemplated medical school as I always had a strong interest in chemistry, and I have to say that I was extremely pleased with my education in pharmacy. I came in thinking I would work retail, but was pleasantly surprised with the rapport that some of my mentors had with the physicians on their teams.

I'm biased, but for someone like you, if you were to pursue Pharmacy you would probably need to do two years of residency. That's a large commitment (not as much as medical school) for no additional benefit in pay- usually less than retail pharmacists. However, the quality of life is probably a little better as a specialist.

One important thing to realize is that if you choose pharmacy, you kind of need to have thick skin. In a clinical setting, you are surrounded by a lot of strong minded physicians, which is obviously important. The physicians will rotate to different teams, but you usually stay in that same service. You're now required to build a good relationship with several different physicians with varying training and personalities. Something you do for one team may not fly with another. I enjoy that variety, but I'm also pretty personable and respectful in person with an easy-going attitude. With that being said, it could be intimidating at times on clerkships when on huge services because now you have to make a recommendation to tons of people you don't know or don't have working relationships with. I can recall one intervention in my fourth year while on the CVICU (heart failure, cardiology, and CVICU team all following= 30 people rounding at once on patient) I nearly voided my bowels while asking if we could get a PTH on the patient who had a renal transplant 5 years prior and had a Ca-Phos product of greater than 70. It came back as secondary hyperparathyroidism and she was put on cinacalcet at discharge. I would not have been able to speak out in front of that many people without the confidence that pharmacy school instilled in me. I truly felt that my leadership skills were polished so much during pharmacy school as well, whereas this may not be as large of a focus in medical school. That's not to say medical school isn't awesome it's own right.

No matter what you choose, always remember the patient comes first no matter what you do. Don't let a little extra study time scare you off from pursuing your dream! Best of luck.

 

[Rabbit99]

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[Vain Brother]

medical school is much harder than pharmacy school. pharmacy allows for plenty of diverse career paths (retail vs hospital, faculty, industry, research, etc). if you work hard in pharmacy school you can find something you'll like to do.