I am interested in getting some feedback about how necessary it is to complete a medical or osteopathic degree in pursuit of a career in mind-body medicine. Can you still affect your patients equally with alternative therapies or is it necessary to have a solid understanding of western medicine b/f integrating other philosophies? I am currently trying to evaluate the potential careers that follow a Phd program vs. a DO or MD program. Please feel free to contribute your thoughts to the above.
alternative therapy
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I am interested in getting some feedback about how necessary it is to complete a medical or osteopathic degree in pursuit of a career in mind-body medicine. Can you still affect your patients equally with alternative therapies or is it necessary to have a solid understanding of western medicine b/f integrating other philosophies? I am currently trying to evaluate the potential careers that follow a Phd program vs. a DO or MD program. Please feel free to contribute your thoughts to the above.
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First of all, just a point of clarification. Both MD and DO degrees are medical
degrees. DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine and MD stands for Doctor
of Medicine. The primary difference is that DO's are also trained in manual
medicine. However, the lines are becoming increasingly blurred. While many DO's
don't utilize these techniques and limit their practices to traditional medicine,
there is an increasing awareness of and appreciation for osteopathic manipulation
in the allopathic community (MD's).
Now, as to your questions, when you speak of "mind-body medicine" what exactly are
you talking about? This phrase has become a catch all for everything from acupuncture
to shamanism. Secondly, you ask if you can "still effect your patients equally with
alternative therapies?". While I am a big believer in certain types of alternative
treatments, in my opinion, they will never take the place of traditional medicine (if
a loved one suffered from cancer, would you want them treated by an alternative healer
or an oncologist?). Finally, you ask if it is "necessary to have an understanding of
western medicine before integrating other philosophies?". Although I don't think it's
absolutely necessary, it would certainly be beneficial, especially if you are interested
in understanding why certain treatments do or do not work. This would also be important
for the purpose of research. Research, or the lack thereof, is the primary reason most
alternative therapies have not gained credibility. You see, it doesn't matter what you
think, all that matters is what can be proven (it's called "evidence based medicine").
Also, I'm curious as to which PhD programs you're considering. Most PhD's are involved in
pure research and unless they are MD or DO-PhD's they wouldn't have contact with patients
(except of course certain professions, such as psychology, nutrition, etc.).
Hope this info helps. If you have any other questions don't hesistate to post them.
degrees. DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine and MD stands for Doctor
of Medicine. The primary difference is that DO's are also trained in manual
medicine. However, the lines are becoming increasingly blurred. While many DO's
don't utilize these techniques and limit their practices to traditional medicine,
there is an increasing awareness of and appreciation for osteopathic manipulation
in the allopathic community (MD's).
Now, as to your questions, when you speak of "mind-body medicine" what exactly are
you talking about? This phrase has become a catch all for everything from acupuncture
to shamanism. Secondly, you ask if you can "still effect your patients equally with
alternative therapies?". While I am a big believer in certain types of alternative
treatments, in my opinion, they will never take the place of traditional medicine (if
a loved one suffered from cancer, would you want them treated by an alternative healer
or an oncologist?). Finally, you ask if it is "necessary to have an understanding of
western medicine before integrating other philosophies?". Although I don't think it's
absolutely necessary, it would certainly be beneficial, especially if you are interested
in understanding why certain treatments do or do not work. This would also be important
for the purpose of research. Research, or the lack thereof, is the primary reason most
alternative therapies have not gained credibility. You see, it doesn't matter what you
think, all that matters is what can be proven (it's called "evidence based medicine").
Also, I'm curious as to which PhD programs you're considering. Most PhD's are involved in
pure research and unless they are MD or DO-PhD's they wouldn't have contact with patients
(except of course certain professions, such as psychology, nutrition, etc.).
Hope this info helps. If you have any other questions don't hesistate to post them.
Thanks for the info. I am looking into either pursuing a degree in osteopathy or going for my Phd in clinical psychology or health psychology. I haven't decided which one yet. My interest in brain and behavior or mind-body medicine,(which is a broad field in itself) has put me at the current 'fork-in-the-road'. I have worked with patients for 10 years and I would like to continue, but sometimes I question medicine and that draws me to the research aspect. I have worked in oncology and yes, chemotherapy is vital, but to what point? That's why I believe that western medicine can only go so far (a pretty unremarkable far, I might add). But what about the well-being of the patient that extends beyond western medicine? Do you think osteopathic medicine is a necessary introduction into this field of thought?
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I don't think osteopathic medicine is a "necessary" introduction into this
field of thought. There are many allopaths that are just as interested in
alternative medicine. However, I think that because of our "nontraditional"
training (those of us that embrace it), we tend to be a little more open
minded about the issue.
When you say you sometimes "question medicine", I'm not sure I understand
what you mean? Although western medicine certainly has many limitations,
huge progress has been made, in lots of areas. Please remember that we
will never have all or even most of the answers. The human body is simply
too complex.
In order to decide which path would be best for you, you should spend time
with both researchers and physicians. Talk to as many people as you can.
You may find yourself drawn in one direction or the other, but if not,
there's no reason you couldn't do both.
field of thought. There are many allopaths that are just as interested in
alternative medicine. However, I think that because of our "nontraditional"
training (those of us that embrace it), we tend to be a little more open
minded about the issue.
When you say you sometimes "question medicine", I'm not sure I understand
what you mean? Although western medicine certainly has many limitations,
huge progress has been made, in lots of areas. Please remember that we
will never have all or even most of the answers. The human body is simply
too complex.
In order to decide which path would be best for you, you should spend time
with both researchers and physicians. Talk to as many people as you can.
You may find yourself drawn in one direction or the other, but if not,
there's no reason you couldn't do both.
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Duh, I think I am getting slow in my olde age, but I still don't see what a DO degree can do for you if your interest is in alternative medicine. The only aspect would be, as Deb pointed out, that DOs may be a little bit more open minded, but even that would be so much subject to the individual physician.
At any rate, you are going to get a completely conventional and unalternative training in osteopathic school.
When you talk about brain and behavior, that really covers a lot of ground. If you are refering to "mind can effect cures on the physical level" kind of thing, you would probably be more interested in something such as aryuvedic medicine, which is totally alternative and addresses this specific area. There is a school opening somewhere out west, I believe. It has been recruiting faculty through AMA publications. Obviously, you would not be a licensed physician after such training, but it is not yet clear from your posting whether that is your goal or not.
If you are thinking more in the lines of "which areas of the brain/neurotransmitters influence behavior" and such, and do not particularly care about becoming a physician, Washington U. in St. Louis has a terrific PhD. program that focus on that area and it is in conjuction with their philosophy dept. and Washington U. Medical School (among the top 5 allopathic schools in the country). It goes without saying that you have to have highly competitive credentials to gain acceptance but, if you are, it could be something that you may want to explore.
And finally, what kind of work have you done with patients?
At any rate, you are going to get a completely conventional and unalternative training in osteopathic school.
When you talk about brain and behavior, that really covers a lot of ground. If you are refering to "mind can effect cures on the physical level" kind of thing, you would probably be more interested in something such as aryuvedic medicine, which is totally alternative and addresses this specific area. There is a school opening somewhere out west, I believe. It has been recruiting faculty through AMA publications. Obviously, you would not be a licensed physician after such training, but it is not yet clear from your posting whether that is your goal or not.
If you are thinking more in the lines of "which areas of the brain/neurotransmitters influence behavior" and such, and do not particularly care about becoming a physician, Washington U. in St. Louis has a terrific PhD. program that focus on that area and it is in conjuction with their philosophy dept. and Washington U. Medical School (among the top 5 allopathic schools in the country). It goes without saying that you have to have highly competitive credentials to gain acceptance but, if you are, it could be something that you may want to explore.
And finally, what kind of work have you done with patients?
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Agreed,
There is one person in my class in particular who was disapointed to find that there is little that is alternative about the osteopathic curriculum. I find that at my DO school you are very much trained to think like a western doctor. DOs are very much guilty of thinking of the body as a machine (even AT himself). Yes they integrated mind-body relation concepts well ahead of american MDs, but let's face it, being a DO means that you are part of mainstream medicine (whether the mainstream knows it or not) and the majority of DOs are equally wary of eastern medicine and what it teaches.
I understand the original posters question/concern. In going to a DO school you will be exposed to those forces that will indoctrinate you as a western physician. I feel that there are no two ways about this. This is not to say that you will have negative attitudes about eastern medicine, just that you will be trained to view it as an objective outsider.
There is one person in my class in particular who was disapointed to find that there is little that is alternative about the osteopathic curriculum. I find that at my DO school you are very much trained to think like a western doctor. DOs are very much guilty of thinking of the body as a machine (even AT himself). Yes they integrated mind-body relation concepts well ahead of american MDs, but let's face it, being a DO means that you are part of mainstream medicine (whether the mainstream knows it or not) and the majority of DOs are equally wary of eastern medicine and what it teaches.
I understand the original posters question/concern. In going to a DO school you will be exposed to those forces that will indoctrinate you as a western physician. I feel that there are no two ways about this. This is not to say that you will have negative attitudes about eastern medicine, just that you will be trained to view it as an objective outsider.
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I would like to add that there are distinct advantages to having a broad medical education, be it osteopathic or allopathic, even if you wish to practice CAM--not the least of which is added creditability from patients and colleagues. I would refer an interested patient to an integrative medicine specialist (a DO or MD)over a nonphysician.
I'm sure most people would agree that western medicine does not have all the answers, especially when it comes to chronic illness. Nevertheless, it is the dominant paradigm and it always bugs me when "alternative practitioners" go around bashing conventional medicine and most have never even taken someone's temperature let alone perform CPR, an intubation, or even treat a simple infection. You only need to read their promotional materials to realize that most have no clue about the most basic aspects of physiology or biochemistry.
I think that the most effective mind-body practitioners (I'm taking to mean you mean things like psychoneuroimmunology) are those that are trained in traditional medicine. I also think that osteopathic medicine would be an excellent match for someone with your intersts because osteopathic principles, in my view, provide a nice conceptual framework from which to approach mind-body matters.
I'm also sure that you're aware that as you get out on the fringe of these subjects the level of quackery rises exponentially. Here's a mind-body source that I find pretty reliable. You might want to check it out.
www.fetzer.org
[This message has been edited by drusso (edited June 23, 1999).]
I'm sure most people would agree that western medicine does not have all the answers, especially when it comes to chronic illness. Nevertheless, it is the dominant paradigm and it always bugs me when "alternative practitioners" go around bashing conventional medicine and most have never even taken someone's temperature let alone perform CPR, an intubation, or even treat a simple infection. You only need to read their promotional materials to realize that most have no clue about the most basic aspects of physiology or biochemistry.
I think that the most effective mind-body practitioners (I'm taking to mean you mean things like psychoneuroimmunology) are those that are trained in traditional medicine. I also think that osteopathic medicine would be an excellent match for someone with your intersts because osteopathic principles, in my view, provide a nice conceptual framework from which to approach mind-body matters.
I'm also sure that you're aware that as you get out on the fringe of these subjects the level of quackery rises exponentially. Here's a mind-body source that I find pretty reliable. You might want to check it out.
www.fetzer.org
[This message has been edited by drusso (edited June 23, 1999).]
Thanks again for your input. I have worked on clinical trials with leukemia/lymphoma patients. It is understandable that these patients need aggressive therapy, but toward the end, when the therapy seemed to do more harm than good, you can't help but think of alternative therapies. It seems sensible to first understand western medicine in its most basic form before integrating other alternatives. In that way, you are more successful with the intial diagnosis and more knowledge equals more options. That would be ideal. Psychoneuroimmunology is an interesting field that literally defines the mind-body connection. I think I am interested in so many aspects of medicine that it is hard to fully commit myself to one program. I know that if I were to go to DO school, I probably wouldn't be a traditionalist. I am more compassionate than conventional. Thanks, again for the comments.
-Allie
-Allie
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