Am I at a disadvantage going to community college, if I want an MD/PhD?

[Wiesal]

I think I'm going to flunk my SAT. After failing the writing section of a practice exam, I flung my book across the room.

Community college is my best option now. Will this hurt me? How can I still conduct research? What courses should I be taking? What courses should I not take? (in terms of prerequisites)

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[piii]

Slow down buddy, worry about getting into a 4 year before you set your sights on an MD/PhD lol. Why do you even want to go into one as a high school student, are your parents doctors?

 

[Wiesal]

Slow down buddy, worry about getting into a 4 year before you set your sights on an MD/PhD lol. Why do you even want to go into one as a high school student, are your parents doctors?

Why are you conflicted/confused by ambition?

 

[Donald Juan]

Why are you conflicted/confused by ambition?

It's called blind ambition. You don't know what you want out of life, you just know you want lots of big, uppercase letters next to your name. You seem to be the one who is confused about it, not the guy who is telling you to do your best and take life one step at a time.

 

[Wiesal]

It's called blind ambition. You don't know what you want out of life, you just know you want lots of big, uppercase letters next to your name. You seem to be the one who is confused about it, not the guy who is telling you to do your best and take life one step at a time.

My mother has schizophrenia; it was painful growing up with this fact. I want to learn about psychiatric disorders and devote my life to improving the care of these patients.

Your personality makes me feel sorry for any patients that have to deal with you.

 

[piii]

My mother has schizophrenia; it was painful growing up with this fact. I want to learn about psychiatric disorders and devote my life to improving the care of these patients.

Your personality makes me feel sorry for any patients that have to deal with you.

Ah, the old "I don't agree with your internet post, you're going to be a terrible Doctor!!1!" comment.

 

[Donald Juan]

My mother has schizophrenia; it was painful growing up with this fact. I want to learn about psychiatric disorders and devote my life to improving the care of these patients.

Your personality makes me feel sorry for any patients that have to deal with you.

You've had two people who are older, more mature, and further along in this process than you give you legitimate, non-insulting, sound advice, and you've made personal attacks on both of them. I won't insult you, because you're a teenager and I was much more unlikable at your age. But, I really can't fathom what type of answer you were looking for in this forum with your question.

I'll try: Yes. You will be at a disadvantage going to a community college vs. the guy from Harvard.

 

[LizzyM]

You have compassion for the mentally ill and that is genuine and heartfelt. The next question is how can you best harness that motivation to do the most good in the world.
MD/PhD is meant for people who will spend 80% of their time in the lab, doing research and, as time goes on, writing proposals, mentoring trainees, and lecturing. If that sounds like what you want to do, then you will need to find ways to get research experience while in school, during summer programs or even for a year or two after college graduation. The strongest candidates for MD/PhD are strong candidates for the PhD and have proven that they will be worth the investment of time and resources that a school will dedicate to you.
At the same time, an MD/PhD is expected to provide patient care in about 20% of time. This often means having clinic one or two half days per week and being "on service" one or two months per year during which time you care for hospitalized patients and supervise the trainees (students, residents, fellows) on your team. In preparation for a career caring for patients, you need to have some exposure to patients who are not your loved ones and the settings in which they receive clinical services. This can be paid or volunteer.

There are many other ways to improve the care of the mentally ill through clinical care (e.g. nursing, clinical psychology, clinical social work -- one of my close relatives took care of veterans with schizophrenia for more than a decade as a nurse in an inpatient unit and in a community support position), or in public policy through a degree in law, public health or public administration.

Take it one step at a time but know that depending on your strengths, there are many paths to your goal of making life better for the mentally ill and their loved ones. Kudos to you.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

Whats up with jumping the OPs case? He's probably 16 or 17 years old you expect him to have it all figured out.

My advice would be to avoid CC if you're interested in medical school due to a lack of resources available. I'm not suggesting it can't be done because many people get accepted from CCs every year. However, if I could do it all over again id start at a university and pay more to have that. There are often no pre med advisors, no research opportunity, they are not typically affiliated with any hospital, etc.

I would think the lack of research available at said institutions is significant for you and may set you back unless you have other options for it. CC is a perfectly fine and viable choice, but just make sure what you need as an MD/Ph.D. hopeful is available. Expect to spend more time outside making connections and finding opportunities for premed ECs.

 

[Monkey.King]

Whats up with jumping the OPs case? He's probably 16 or 17 years old you expect him to have it all figured out.

What? It's the complete opposite. These people are saying that he shouldn't have his life figured out to the point of a MD/PH.D. If he hasn't even started college yet. And since these people actually have experience in at least the MD route, he should listen to their advice.

And OP, I took the SAT in May, it was easy. The only issue I had was running out of time. The literature section felt like all you needed was a intermediate understanding of basic grammar, and the math section felt like Algerbra 1. It feels along with taking out the essay, they made the overall test easier. I had a 2013 practice book and that was harder than the new SAT. Also don't stress out about it. You can take it as many times as you want, and schools take your 2 highest scores from each section.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

What? It's the complete opposite. These people are saying that he shouldn't have his life figured out to the point of a MD/PH.D. If he hasn't even started college yet. And since these people actually have experience in at least the MD route, he should listen to their advice.

There are plenty of kids who go straight out of high school to 6 year MD programs. Will you also tell them they have no clue what they want and just want an MD by their name?

 

[LizzyM]

There are plenty of kids who go straight out of high school to 6 year MD programs. Will you also tell them they have no clue what they want and just want an MD by their name?

well, in some cases, the parents just want an MD after the kid's name. Those programs should be eliminated, IMHO, and replaced with early decision (junior year) for undergrads.

 

[doc05]

There are plenty of kids who go straight out of high school to 6 year MD programs. Will you also tell them they have no clue what they want and just want an MD by their name?

yes. and I have. those programs are just plain stupid.

 

[JustAPhD]

I would say the question I have is of the "why the PhD?" variety. And that's one that you can think about, OP, as you progress through undergrad and experience research.

The SAT will hardly be the last standardized test you take. It would be a good idea to understand why you aren't doing well on the practice exams for futures sake.

 

[doc05]

I think I'm going to flunk my SAT. After failing the writing section of a practice exam, I flung my book across the room.

Community college is my best option now. Will this hurt me? How can I still conduct research? What courses should I be taking? What courses should I not take? (in terms of prerequisites)

As a high school kid, you're not in a good position to have made a decision re: MD/PhD.

Even so, going to a community college will be a huge disadvantage. Mainly because you won't have research opportunities. And also because you will have to eventually transfer to a 4-year school, and this in itself will be an issue. Among other reasons, which have also been noted in this thread.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

yes. and I have. those programs are just plain stupid.

To each his own. I happen to know two doctors personally who are both successful and have no qualms about attending such program.

If your intention is to sway people from said programs you should come up with something other than "the program is stupid", because obviously other attendings don't always share the same sentiment.

 

[drwoofs]

All of these questions will be answered along your path. I'm just going to go ahead and give you a comprehensive response for those who also may be attending CC.

Having attended community college myself, it's not going to hurt you a bit if you're on top of it. Good grades, good study habits, good ECs consistently. I doubt you'll actually end up there. Incase you do, make the best use of your time. Obviously conducting research at a CC is not likely. Therefore you supplement with outside opportunities. I had two research opportunities outside of my university and completely separate from the institution with nothing on my resume at the time but CC and a few unrelated jobs. Volunteering in a clinical setting is probably the most important EC anyone can have. Personally, I would do that before anything else. This will help you understand whether this is something you actually want to spend your life doing because you will be able to interact with patients and healthcare staff! Once you get to university get into a lab and get going. In all honesty I'm almost certain you will not want to pursue a PhD when you get in the lab and finish out a thesis (or a project). I loved my research but there was such little reward for the amount of blood, sweat, and tears poured into it. Many researchers are the hardest working, underappreciated, underpaid, and overworked individuals. (From my area of expertise at least- cell bio). It is recommended that you get high GPA, high MCAT, volunteer hours, and research hours regardless if you are applying MD or MD/ PhD.

The premed reqs are posted on AAMCs website here: https://students-residents.aamc.org...rticle/admission-requirements-medical-school/
As far as classes not to take: I would scrutinize anything the advisors at CC tell you to take that is outside of what you NEED to take. For example, in California there are CC courses at a few CCs with number 100-200 which only count for california state universities (lower ranked than UCs) and everything 1-99 counts for both CSU and UCs. If you are a california resident or have multiple state schools in your state that is not under one unifying system then only take classes that transfer to all schools. My advisors were completely useless and suggested I take many courses that only transferred to CSUs. Not that CSUs are bad schools. You just end up with more options. Avoid taking any classes that serve no purpose i.e. not counting for pre-reqs for major or general ed.

Most importantly pick a major you enjoy! Bonus points if it's math.

Your perspective will change. It's important to recognize that.

Good luck on your SAT! I hope you found this information useful. This forum and AAMC websites are littered with helpful information regarding any concerns as a pre-med student.

 

[MaxPlancker]

I agree the BS/MD programs are kinda pointless. If you're good enough to get into one, chances are plenty capable of getting into med school later on...At my school, the early acceptance kids are the ones who are arrogant about being in the program and end up doing little in college...

 

[Monkey.King]

There are plenty of kids who go straight out of high school to 6 year MD programs. Will you also tell them they have no clue what they want and just want an MD by their name?

Well the OP isn't one of these kids now is he? Furthermore, if he can't even get a decent SAT score, that's the first issue he should be addressing. Not whether or not the route he's thinking about will offer him a MD/PH.D. entrance. And furthermore, he's completely trying to avoid the issue, something which will come back to haunt him.

He's suggesting going to CC because he feels like he's gonna flunk his SAT, which is pretty much him trying to get around it.The SAT is a test that shows if you can handle the rigors of college. It's the MCAT for undergrad. You can have a 4.0 GPA, but if you doing fail the MCAT, no med school acceptance for you. Schools have things like curves, inflation, cheating and among other things that can boost a persons GPA, which is why we have the SAT. A test that everyone takes to see where everyone is really at. CC is already generally seen as "easier, so going there simply because you can't pass the SAT is a big problem.

 

[Jalby]

Growing up I wanted to date Tyra Banks. I realized that wasn't possible and eventually settled.

You should think about that.

 

[Wiesal]

You have compassion for the mentally ill and that is genuine and heartfelt. The next question is how can you best harness that motivation to do the most good in the world.
MD/PhD is meant for people who will spend 80% of their time in the lab, doing research and, as time goes on, writing proposals, mentoring trainees, and lecturing. If that sounds like what you want to do, then you will need to find ways to get research experience while in school, during summer programs or even for a year or two after college graduation. The strongest candidates for MD/PhD are strong candidates for the PhD and have proven that they will be worth the investment of time and resources that a school will dedicate to you.
At the same time, an MD/PhD is expected to provide patient care in about 20% of time. This often means having clinic one or two half days per week and being "on service" one or two months per year during which time you care for hospitalized patients and supervise the trainees (students, residents, fellows) on your team. In preparation for a career caring for patients, you need to have some exposure to patients who are not your loved ones and the settings in which they receive clinical services. This can be paid or volunteer.

There are many other ways to improve the care of the mentally ill through clinical care (e.g. nursing, clinical psychology, clinical social work -- one of my close relatives took care of veterans with schizophrenia for more than a decade as a nurse in an inpatient unit and in a community support position), or in public policy through a degree in law, public health or public administration.

Take it one step at a time but know that depending on your strengths, there are many paths to your goal of making life better for the mentally ill and their loved ones. Kudos to you.

Thank you so much for your advice. The research aspect 80% because without this proportion, meaningful projects probably won't be completed, correct? In that case, maybe an MD/PhD is not suited for me. I actually think I didn't do that bad on my SAT. I probably received a 1250-1350

Growing up I wanted to date Tyra Banks. I realized that wasn't possible and eventually settled.

You should think about that.

I think this is a bit of a ridiculous comparison.

Whats up with jumping the OPs case? He's probably 16 or 17 years old you expect him to have it all figured out.

My advice would be to avoid CC if you're interested in medical school due to a lack of resources available. I'm not suggesting it can't be done because many people get accepted from CCs every year. However, if I could do it all over again id start at a university and pay more to have that. There are often no pre med advisors, no research opportunity, they are not typically affiliated with any hospital, etc.

I would think the lack of research available at said institutions is significant for you and may set you back unless you have other options for it. CC is a perfectly fine and viable choice, but just make sure what you need as an MD/Ph.D. hopeful is available. Expect to spend more time outside making connections and finding opportunities for premed ECs.

While I was typing this post, I was honestly on panic mode for the SAT. I didn't do to bad, so undergrad should be an option! Thank you for your advice.

What? It's the complete opposite. These people are saying that he shouldn't have his life figured out to the point of a MD/PH.D. If he hasn't even started college yet. And since these people actually have experience in at least the MD route, he should listen to their advice.

And OP, I took the SAT in May, it was easy. The only issue I had was running out of time. The literature section felt like all you needed was a intermediate understanding of basic grammar, and the math section felt like Algerbra 1. It feels along with taking out the essay, they made the overall test easier. I had a 2013 practice book and that was harder than the new SAT. Also don't stress out about it. You can take it as many times as you want, and schools take your 2 highest scores from each section.

That's understandable, but I think the first 2 posters were too harsh.

I would say the question I have is of the "why the PhD?" variety. And that's one that you can think about, OP, as you progress through undergrad and experience research.

The SAT will hardly be the last standardized test you take. It would be a good idea to understand why you aren't doing well on the practice exams for futures sake.

I wanted the MD/PhD to help improve care for people like my mother. I don't want them, their loved ones, or their children to suffer. Maybe I will just gor for an MD; I am not sure anymore.

Ah, the old "I don't agree with your internet post, you're going to be a terrible Doctor!!1!" comment.

It's called blind ambition. You don't know what you want out of life, you just know you want lots of big, uppercase letters next to your name. You seem to be the one who is confused about it, not the guy who is telling you to do your best and take life one step at a time.

I posted this same question on college confidential: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com...oing-to-community-college-a-disadvantage.html. My motives were not questioned nor were the replies overly harsh. I think this speaks a lot for a portion of the SDN community. It's becoming toxic, and people (telling from your likes) are endorsing it. Also, the world is not yes and no's, black and whites, 0's and 1's. Just because you think you were a stupid teenager does not mean every teenager is blindly ambitious. There are people my age out there who have had personal experiences that gave them their ambitious attitudes. You can't broadly apply such things to a whole age group; this is not how life works. What you're doing is not mature.

 

[piii]

.
I posted this same question on college confidential: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com...oing-to-community-college-a-disadvantage.html. My motives were not questioned nor were the replies overly harsh. I think this speaks a lot for a portion of the SDN community. It's becoming toxic, and people (telling from your likes) are endorsing it. Also, the world is not yes and no's, black and whites, 0's and 1's. Just because you think you were a stupid teenager does not mean every teenager is blindly ambitious. There are people my age out there who have had personal experiences that gave them their ambitious attitudes. You can't broadly apply such things to a whole age group; this is not how life works. What you're doing is not mature.

So you want a place where everyone panders to your every sensitive need and only tells you advice you want to hear?

 

[Wiesal]

So you want a place where everyone panders to your every sensitive need and only tells you advice you want to hear?

No, I did not ask for that.

 

[JustaDO]

So:
1. You flung a book across a room because you were frustrated.
2. You made a post because you were panicking over not the real exam, but a practice exam.
3. You deal in absolutes, that if someone doesn't respond in the way you like, then they will be a bad doctor, or that its reflective of SDN as a whole, yet you yourself state that you are different from your peers/age group, and as such, you can't be group with others.
4. You call someone a "stupid teenager" after all of the above.

I want to learn about psychiatric disorders

I think you should too.

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

Hmmm have you thought about psychology? If you are interested in psychiatric disorders then psych is a good back up plan. Tho in my personal opinion, you should do some growing up and self assessment before you decide on a field to go into. Heck I am a college junior and I've went from wanting to be a pastor to being a psychologist and am now finally deciding to be a history teacher. You need to know yourself and know what interests you which is what college is going to help you with. Don't worry so much about whatcha gonna do in 10 years just try to be flexible and willing to have your life plan change a billion times.

Good luck with the SATs and don't stress too much!!! Once your in college, you'll look back and will think "why did I worry so much about so and so".

 

[raiderette]

Comparing CC to SDN is crazy. Your respondents were a parent (not in the health field) and one intern. On SDN you get many more people from wider backgrounds. They are nice on CC in the premed forum, but the majority of posters are parents, not med students.

 

[Jalby]

Man..... What ever made you think this was a safe space for sharing your unrealistic experiences?? Would you have rather we gave you a hug??? Or was the sole point of posting an essay about unrealistic dreams so that you can bash the expected responses.

I'm an attending in real life. I've seen lives ruined because people had unrealistic goals, and instead of people redirecting them to more achievable goals, they say chase your dreams. That's not how this world works. Not everybody will be an astronaut and some people will work at McDonalds.

I don't know if what you posted is real or not, but right now you just need to study and get into college. Forget even considering being a doctor for a couple of years. And if you are having problems with the SATs, just forget it completely.

 

[Link2]

Man..... What ever made you think this was a safe space for sharing your unrealistic experiences?? Would you have rather we gave you a hug??? Or was the sole point of posting an essay about unrealistic dreams so that you can bash the expected responses.

I'm an attending in real life. I've seen lives ruined because people had unrealistic goals, and instead of people redirecting them to more achievable goals, they say chase your dreams. That's not how this world works. Not everybody will be an astronaut and some people will work at McDonalds.

I don't know if what you posted is real or not, but right now you just need to study and get into college. Forget even considering being a doctor for a couple of years. And if you are having problems with the SATs, just forget it completely.

Why?

 

[Avicenna]

Op dont let their words discourage u. If u want to do something go for it. I remember at ur age my high school advisor imply id never get into med school with the way i was going, and my D's and F's in classes like chem and bio, almost bottom of my class, but look at me now 513 MCAT 3.8 gpa, and solid chance at MD. If its something u try to do, dont let the people hold you back. Later you might find md phd was not for you, and you change your track, and thats fine - but do it because you made the decision on your own, and not because you were caught in the words of the discouraging cynics.

As for ur situation, if you cant retake the SAT and salvage a state school acceptance, thats fine - just go to comm college for one semester and keep straight A's, knocking out some gen eds like psych and english, maybe math. Dont do the science classes. As for research, it can wait. Then transfer to a state school. If you give 100%, I know you can do it

 

[eteshoe]

OP - if you're talking about starting out in CC and transferring to a 4 yr uni + some devoted research time - then it is possible to get into a MD/PhD program. It will be an absolutely tough road though since the dual degree program requires having the stats of a strong MD student and PhD student. It's possible but really think about what you want out of your future career and shadow enough people.

 

[premed626]

try to take all your courses at a uni...it is better