Am I at all competitive?

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MikeMD

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So this is my 1st post here (although Ive been lurking for months). I'm just wondering if I'm at all competitive for a US med school. I live in Florida

I'm currently a PreMed and Economics major at a top 25 University here in the US. I'm a senior and have not yet applied. Just got a 30Q on my 1st MCAT take (was getting 30-35avg on MCAT, but happy I have atleast a 30...). My main problem, however, is my GPA. My 1st 2yrs here I really slacked off and wasted a lot of time not studying. My current GPA is a 3.0, but it's been slowly climbing ever since I finally realized that I REALLY wanted to go to med school my junior year. Junior GPA was a 3.3. Now in my senior year, I'm confident I can pull off atleast a 3.5 (although I'm not taking any science classes currently, possibly next semester?).

My 1st 2 summers, I worked at Siemens (the big electronic company, not the beds) in a paid internship. This was when I was undecided about med school. I wasnt too involved in school: I volunteered by reading to kids 1 semester my sophomore year, and I was in a few clubs, but nothing too big.

But again, everything changed junior year when I became EXTREMELY motivated to go to med school, and began cracking down. This past summer, I volunteered in hospitals in Bolivia for 4 weeks, working alongside doctors in Bolivia. I was able to do exams, scrub in and help during surgery etc. This program was mostly for med students but somehow I got in. I also retook organic chemistry because I did horribly in it. Got a B+ 2nd time around. Junior year i volunteered in the ER at the local hospital for 4hrs a week, and I'm doing that again this semester.

Currently, I'm also doing research here with a doctor/professor, and plan on picking up another volunteer opportunity.


ANYWAY, sorry for the life story. Am I at all competetive? I want to get in somewhere, don't care where. I know my GPA is horrible, but will the fact that it is MUCH better after realizing my dream to go to med school help much? Should I apply this coming June or do a Post Bacc program?

thanks for your help!

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3.0/30 isn't competitive for non URM applicants to MD programs. I don't know whether it is for DO programs or not. If you want to attend a MD school you need to do a SMP.
 
Looks fine to me.

GPA > 3.0
MCAT >= 30
*Other Stuff

Just make sure to get clinical experience and make sure you get the pre-reqs knocked out.
 
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So this is my 1st post here (although Ive been lurking for months). I'm just wondering if I'm at all competitive for a US med school. I live in Florida

I'm currently a PreMed and Economics major at a top 25 University here in the US. I'm a senior and have not yet applied. Just got a 30Q on my 1st MCAT take (was getting 30-35avg on MCAT, but happy I have atleast a 30...). My main problem, however, is my GPA. My 1st 2yrs here I really slacked off and wasted a lot of time not studying. My current GPA is a 3.0, but it's been slowly climbing ever since I finally realized that I REALLY wanted to go to med school my junior year. Junior GPA was a 3.3. Now in my senior year, I'm confident I can pull off atleast a 3.5 (although I'm not taking any science classes currently, possibly next semester?).

My 1st 2 summers, I worked at Siemens (the big electronic company, not the beds) in a paid internship. This was when I was undecided about med school. I wasnt too involved in school: I volunteered by reading to kids 1 semester my sophomore year, and I was in a few clubs, but nothing too big.

But again, everything changed junior year when I became EXTREMELY motivated to go to med school, and began cracking down. This past summer, I volunteered in hospitals in Bolivia for 4 weeks, working alongside doctors in Bolivia. I was able to do exams, scrub in and help during surgery etc. This program was mostly for med students but somehow I got in. I also retook organic chemistry because I did horribly in it. Got a B+ 2nd time around. Junior year i volunteered in the ER at the local hospital for 4hrs a week, and I'm doing that again this semester.

Currently, I'm also doing research here with a doctor/professor, and plan on picking up another volunteer opportunity.


ANYWAY, sorry for the life story. Am I at all competetive? I want to get in somewhere, don't care where. I know my GPA is horrible, but will the fact that it is MUCH better after realizing my dream to go to med school help much? Should I apply this coming June or do a Post Bacc program?

thanks for your help!


You may have a chance, but to make you more competitive you'll definitely need to rock your MCAT (31 or better, would recommend taking again) and show an upward trend of about 3.75 for a few semesters.
 
Improving you GPA after realizing medicine is your calling is certainly compelling, and should be discussed in your personal statement. Still, every adcom would grill you about your GPA. Not only is a 3.0 obviously low, but the 3.3 or even 3.5 you pulled after realizing your dream is a good 1-2 standard deviations away from most schools. a 30 on your MCAT is a decent score (although it's become more and more mediocre), but your chances would be much better if you could really ace your senior year (>3.7).
I think you do have a chance, if you make sure to apply early and broadly next year (and consider DO schools as a backup). Good luck!
 
wow thanks for the quick replies! Forgot to mention I have a few other EC's such as running my own computer selling/repair business, working in my dad's dentistry office once in a while, working for my mother's real estate business, etc if that helps at all

What is an SMP?
 
Improving you GPA after realizing medicine is your calling is certainly compelling, and should be discussed in your personal statement. Still, every adcom would grill you about your GPA. Not only is a 3.0 obviously low, but the 3.3 or even 3.5 you pulled after realizing your dream is a good 1-2 standard deviations away from most schools. a 30 on your MCAT is a decent score (although it's become more and more mediocre), but your chances would be much better if you could really ace your senior year (>3.7).
I think you do have a chance, if you make sure to apply early and broadly next year (and consider DO schools as a backup). Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I honestly think I could get a 4.0 this semester, my classes aren't too difficult (finally!!). That would certainly help my cause.

Is it worth adding in my personal statement that I became very ill during my worst semester here, which obviously was the main cause of my low grades? My 1st semester freshman year I believe I had a 3.2 or so, not too horrible, but after that I was constantly sick for some reason...
 
wow thanks for the quick replies! Forgot to mention I have a few other EC's such as running my own computer selling/repair business, working in my dad's dentistry office once in a while, working for my mother's real estate business, etc if that helps at all

What is an SMP?

Special Masters Program, where you take med school classes with med students. It's essentially the only option for non-URM students with low GPA/MCAT, and probably your best option. Even if you raise your GPA to 3.4 with postbac (which would be quite hard), you probably won't be competitive w/o a 33+ and a SMP will make it easier.
 
You may have a chance, but to make you more competitive you'll definitely need to rock your MCAT (31 or better, would recommend taking again) and show an upward trend of about 3.75 for a few semesters.

I agree with the upward trend, but I don't think MCAT of 31 or even 32 would make much difference. In order for your score to really distinguish itself from the first, it should realistically be at least 33 or 34. If you really did score 30-35 on your practices, there's good chance you'll make a 33-35 on your second test. If you think you could hit the upper range, study and retake. If during the exam you don't feel it's quite going your way (and you should really be able to tell when an exam is heading towards a 30 as opposed to a 35), void it. Last thing you want to do is get another 30.
 
So this is my 1st post here (although Ive been lurking for months). I'm just wondering if I'm at all competitive for a US med school. I live in Florida

I'm currently a PreMed and Economics major at a top 25 University here in the US. I'm a senior and have not yet applied. Just got a 30Q on my 1st MCAT take (was getting 30-35avg on MCAT, but happy I have atleast a 30...). My main problem, however, is my GPA. My 1st 2yrs here I really slacked off and wasted a lot of time not studying. My current GPA is a 3.0, but it's been slowly climbing ever since I finally realized that I REALLY wanted to go to med school my junior year. Junior GPA was a 3.3. Now in my senior year, I'm confident I can pull off atleast a 3.5 (although I'm not taking any science classes currently, possibly next semester?).

My 1st 2 summers, I worked at Siemens (the big electronic company, not the beds) in a paid internship. This was when I was undecided about med school. I wasnt too involved in school: I volunteered by reading to kids 1 semester my sophomore year, and I was in a few clubs, but nothing too big.

But again, everything changed junior year when I became EXTREMELY motivated to go to med school, and began cracking down. This past summer, I volunteered in hospitals in Bolivia for 4 weeks, working alongside doctors in Bolivia. I was able to do exams, scrub in and help during surgery etc. This program was mostly for med students but somehow I got in. I also retook organic chemistry because I did horribly in it. Got a B+ 2nd time around. Junior year i volunteered in the ER at the local hospital for 4hrs a week, and I'm doing that again this semester.

Currently, I'm also doing research here with a doctor/professor, and plan on picking up another volunteer opportunity.


ANYWAY, sorry for the life story. Am I at all competetive? I want to get in somewhere, don't care where. I know my GPA is horrible, but will the fact that it is MUCH better after realizing my dream to go to med school help much? Should I apply this coming June or do a Post Bacc program?

thanks for your help!

Anything is possible. Most of us don't have great insight into medical school admissions something that probably won't change when we get admitted (if we get admitted), so take all advice here on chances with a grain of salt. Objective metrics say that you are below average on your GPA and MCAT (only moderately). I think most people would agree objective metrics like these rarely ever guarantee any outcome. You might be screened out by a lot of school, though and you will have ground to make up in your ECs,interviews and essays. If I were you, and I didn't have to worry about the cost of application, I would apply broadly to MD schools, especially instate, and also a number of DO schools unless you have a significant problem with DO. This way you might get in and you won't have to worry further. If you don't you can always start taking steps to make yourself more competative, post-bacc work, extra ECs you feel passionate about etc. I think most people here would agree if you truly feel medicine is what you want to do you will find a way to make it happen, even if its not through the path you envisioned initially. If you really don't care where you go I strongly suggest applying to DO schools as well.
 
Thanks again guys, love this place!

I'm looking at some SMPs and most have an application deadline of march 1st. Could I apply to and possibly begin one of these programs, and apply to med school at the same time? If I can get in SOMEWHERE (medschool) I'd MUCH rather start now than in another yr or 2...

Also probably pretty important: I've shadowed dozens of doctors and have seen Many surgeries, etc. My father has many doctor friends who let me follow them around from time to time, and I also shadow some doctors when the ER volunteering is slow on a particular day. Don't know if that helps much?
 
Thanks again guys, love this place!

I'm looking at some SMPs and most have an application deadline of march 1st. Could I apply to and possibly begin one of these programs, and apply to med school at the same time? If I can get in SOMEWHERE (medschool) I'd MUCH rather start now than in another yr or 2...

Also probably pretty important: I've shadowed dozens of doctors and have seen Many surgeries, etc. My father has many doctor friends who let me follow them around from time to time, and I also shadow some doctors when the ER volunteering is slow on a particular day. Don't know if that helps much?

You can't apply to med school this late with those stats and get in, but you could apply to SMPs to start next year after you graduate and apply to med schools while you're in the SMP, and it's supposed to help.
 
(and consider DO schools as a backup). Good luck!
Or just consider them. At the OP's current standing it will be hard to get seen by allopathic schools. OP, have you considered doing a Post-bacc after fourth year? That will probably help you take both higher level sciences (to prove competence) but will also help with GPA troubles.

Edit: Thanks Drizz
 
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Or just consider them. At the OP's current standing it will be hard to get seen by allopathic schools. OP, have you considered doing a Post-bacc after fourth year? That will probably help you take both higher level sciences (to prove competence) but will also help with GPA troubles (although a grad GPA).

Post-bacc GPA counts as undergrad GPA unless you're talking about a SMP.
 
I meant apply to Med school NEXT June, after I (probably) hear back from an SMP. Also, what is the difference between an SMP and a postbac program, just that the SMP gives a masters degree? I'm assuming an SMP is much better? Are they tough to get accepted into?

thanks
 
I think you are competitve enough. Might want to do a post bac if your GPA does not go above 3.3 at least. 3.0 is cut off for med schools. So whats ur BCMP? if you rock that and have a close to 3.8 then you have a very good chance at an middle tier, low tier school.
 
It just boggles the mind how DO schools don't even come into the picture for some people.
 
I meant apply to Med school NEXT June, after I (probably) hear back from an SMP. Also, what is the difference between an SMP and a postbac program, just that the SMP gives a masters degree? I'm assuming an SMP is much better? Are they tough to get accepted into?

thanks
Mike, do you mean the summer between your junior and senior year? If you apply then I don't feel a 2 semester GPA upheaval will causes much change in your overall GPA. Consider taking a year or two off to do a post-bacc or SMP and then apply.
 
I meant apply to Med school NEXT June, after I (probably) hear back from an SMP. Also, what is the difference between an SMP and a postbac program, just that the SMP gives a masters degree? I'm assuming an SMP is much better? Are they tough to get accepted into?

thanks

SMP is a graduate program that affects your gGPA while a postbac will affect your cGPA. I would recommend you go to the postbac forum and read the post titled "Guide to Special Masters Programs" which will answer your questions. Yes you are able to apply to a SMP for 2008 admission this year and apply to med schools next summer for 2009 admission.
 
Couple clarifications.

I am absolutely considering a DO school, I never said I wasn't. Obviously I'd much prefer an MD school, but those chances may be slim. What about a school in the Caribbean?

I am currently a Senior. This is my last year. I have not applied yet.

I am DEFINITELY going to apply to a postbac or SMP program. Which would be better? I was just asking if it is advisable to apply to med school next year whlie attending the SMP/postbac so I don't "waste" an entire year trying to improve my grades and get in somewhere.

In all honestly, the SMP programs sound pretty neat, taking med school classes with other med students. I'd also be much better off for my 1st year in med school, right?

Thanks again everyone. Greatly appreciate it!
 
SMP is a graduate program that affects your gGPA while a postbac will affect your cGPA. I would recommend you go to the postbac forum and read the post titled "Guide to Special Masters Programs" which will answer your questions. Yes you are able to apply to a SMP for 2008 admission this year and apply to med schools next summer for 2009 admission.

gotcha, thanks.
 
I'm looking at some SMPs and most have an application deadline of march 1st. Could I apply to and possibly begin one of these programs, and apply to med school at the same time? If I can get in SOMEWHERE (medschool) I'd MUCH rather start now than in another yr or 2...

Yes you can apply to both. Most SMPs (I believe Georgetown and Drexel are the exceptions) don't have rolling admissions, so you should be able to get rejected from allo schools before you have to worry about applying. If you do an SMP, you apply to medical school while you're in the SMP. SMPs are generally programs that allow you to take classes with, and be evaluated against, medical students, so you'd start the porgram at the same time you would have started medical school, had you gotten in.

Good luck.
 
The 30 will pull weight at a DO school but the 3.0 will not impress them. Its hard to tell how well they will receive him sans him giving us ECs, Shadowing, yadda yadda.

I was just commenting on how people even look overseas or piss away money on postbac programs before looking right next door at a DO school with comparative opportunities and education.
 
I was just commenting on how people even look overseas or piss away money on postbac programs before looking right next door at a DO school with comparative opportunities and education.
I don't think overseas is an option until someone "exhausts" the possibilities on their home soil. I feel many would agree that doing a post-bacc or SMP before applying internationally is a wise choice. It is much easier to go in the states and become certified in the states than go overseas and try to come back. I agree in that he should consider osteopathic schools since they are comparable in nature to their counterparts. (But I wouldn't want to get anyone started on that.) I just feel that a 30/3.0 won't fair him too well. He'll get attention from osteopathic schools but not nearly as much if he worked on his GPA. If the MCAT gets raised to a 34 or 35 he'll still have trouble at allo schools I feel.
 
Would my chance of getting into an allo school increase significantly if I were to raise my GPA up to a 3.15-3.2? I can potentially achieve this if I get a 4.0 the next 2 semesters, and it doesn't hurt that I'd have 2 semesters with 4.0s as my most recent grades ;)

thanks!
 
Are you sure you're calculating your gpa according to AMCAS specifications? All grades are included, retakes don't replace old grades.
 
Are you sure you're calculating your gpa according to AMCAS specifications? All grades are included, retakes don't replace old grades.

Yeah I know, I just multiplied my current gpa (3) by 6 (for the last 6 semesters or 3yrs), then added 8 (4.0 for next 2 semesters) and divided by 8, ~3.2 avg over the 8 semester span. Granted this isnt exact due to credit hours, but I'm taking 16credits now and probably something like that next semester, so it should be....And the orgo retake isnt included in this. But sending that transcript along should help me some, right?
 
Would my chance of getting into an allo school increase significantly if I were to raise my GPA up to a 3.15-3.2? I can potentially achieve this if I get a 4.0 the next 2 semesters, and it doesn't hurt that I'd have 2 semesters with 4.0s as my most recent grades ;)

thanks!

Not with a 30. If you had a 3.2 and 39 or so MCAT you would have a chance to be accepted into some MD schools if you applied to 30-40 programs, but the path would be much easier with a SMP. With a 3.0/30 you are competitive for most SMP programs.
 
Looks fine to me.

GPA > 3.0
MCAT >= 30
*Other Stuff

Just make sure to get clinical experience and make sure you get the pre-reqs knocked out.

Um, 30 MCAT is perfectly acceptable, but a 3.0 is not (the averages for accepted students are about 30 and a 3.5).

OP, I would recommend an SMP. Or possibly a DO school if their philosophy is appealing to you.
 
I would say that you would probably have a chance at the lower-tier schools, or a DO school. You have good ECs, so you have that going for you. I would retake the MCAT and hope for a 33-35 to show that your gpa shouldn't have been that low and that you know your stuff.
 
how much weight is put on which Undergrad University you attend? I ask because at my school, all of the science classes are Very hard. A Number of people drop their science classes (BCPM) and then take them at an "easier" school, easily receiving A's. Basically, I feel if I had gone to my state university I could "easily" have had a 3.5+. I know I'm probably exaggerating and sound like an ass, but this just does not seem very fair unless they different schools are weighted differently?

anyone else feel this way?

I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just frustrated...After all, I DID chose this school over the state school, it's my fault.
 
how much weight is put on which Undergrad University you attend? I ask because at my school (Notre Dame), all of the science classes are Very hard. A Number of people drop their science classes (BCPM) and then take them at an "easier" school, easily receiving A's. Basically, I feel if I had gone to my state university I could "easily" have had a 3.5+. I know I'm probably exaggerating and sound like an ass, but this just does not seem very fair unless they different schools are weighted differently?

anyone else feel this way?

I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just frustrated...After all, I DID chose this school over the state school, it's my fault.

The only school I interviewed at that specifically said they looked at difficulty where someone graduated from was WashU. However, I don't think you'll see many people who accept you have lower grades because of harder curriculum. Heck I went to a state university and still knew people who had to drop classes and take them at the local CC college because the curriculucm was just too hard.
 
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