Am I competitive for all schools?

[TheRealBatmanMD]

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[TheRealBatmanMD]

@Goro. You stated in your guide that we should only bother applying to Harvard/Stanford class schools if you have a 517 or higher. Would my GPA compensate for a slightly lower score than you recommend for applying to these schools?

 

[GA_arYonkees_82]

I think you're good. At this point I feel like you just have to hope Lady Luck is on your side lol

 

[907914]

Hi everyone. I just got my MCAT score back and I scored a 515 with 129/126/132/128 breakdown. My GPA is 3.99 and for the sake of discussion assume I have perfect extracurriculars (e.g. I have 6 publications, great research, great clinical experience, etc.) With my MCAT score, can I realistically still apply to top tier schools? Thank you!

If you are URM then you are good. If you are ORM then you are realistically competitive for T50 schools with cinci and Ohio types as reaches. I would throw in Duke and Columbia as far reaches.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

If you are URM then you are good. If you are ORM then you are realistically competitive for T50 schools with cinci and Ohio types as reaches. I would throw in Duke and Columbia as far reaches.

Thanks for your help. Should I even bother applying to Hopkins/ Harvard? Also, Duke's median MCAT is 518. Is that really a far reach?

 

[907914]

Thanks for your help. Should I even bother applying to Hopkins/ Harvard? Also, Duke's median MCAT is 518. Is that really a far reach?

Yah, you are right. Duke has a really wide range. You can probably afford a couple Stanford/Hopkins types if you are >10%. You are not competitive for them, but you have a shot at it.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Yah, you are right. Duke has a really wide range. You can probably afford a couple Stanford/Hopkins types if you are >10%. You are not competitive for them, but you have a minuscule shot at it.

Sorry, what do you mean by greater than 10 percent?

 

[bluepeony]

Sorry, what do you mean by greater than 10 percent?

10th percentile on the MSAR

 

[Phoebus Apollo]

The truth is some top schools are more focused on stats than others, and your MCAT will affect your competitiveness there. (WashU is the most obvious offender. Penn and NYU also value stats highly—NYU’s stats were insanely high well before they went tuition free).

The fact that Stanford and Harvard are below WashU/Penn’s avg MCAT does not mean that the latter two are better schools, but it does suggest that WashU is placing more of a premium on high exam scores. By comparison, schools like Stanford and Harvard expect outstanding ECs, and you don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell without something that sets you apart besides your grades and MCAT. If your research is excellent (which it sounds like it is), then I’d say you have a reasonable shot at Stanford, even with a 515.

So. I’d think about the top schools that you’re interested, and look at their stats on MSAR. Take WashU vs Harvard, for example. If you look at that 10th-90th percentile distribution, the distribution is greater for Harvard; that’s because they’re looking at a broader range of applicants, stats-wise. (But the difference isn’t so great that people should throw their money away, applying for ****s and giggles because what if. Ppl should only apply if they’re within a reasonable range and truly do have good ECs.)

 

[deleted688779]

The truth is some top schools are more focused on stats than others, and your MCAT will affect your competitiveness there. (WashU is the most obvious offender. Penn and NYU also value stats highly—NYU’s stats were insanely high well before they went tuition free).

The fact that Stanford and Harvard are below WashU/Penn’s avg MCAT does not mean that the latter two are better schools, but it does suggest that WashU is placing more of a premium on high exam scores. By comparison, schools like Stanford and Harvard expect outstanding ECs, and you don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell without something that sets you apart besides your grades and MCAT. If your research is excellent (which it sounds like it is), then I’d say you have a reasonable shot at Stanford, even with a 515.

So. I’d think about the top schools that you’re interested, and look at their stats on MSAR. Take WashU vs Harvard, for example. If you look at that 10th-90th percentile distribution, the distribution is greater for Harvard; that’s because they’re looking at a broader range of applicants, stats-wise. (But the difference isn’t so great that people should throw their money away, applying for ****s and giggles because what if. Ppl should only apply if they’re within a reasonable range and truly do have good ECs.)

What do you define as "good" ECs in the context of competitiveness for these schools?

 

[907914]

What do you define as "good" ECs in the context of competitiveness for these schools?

Anything with a longitudinal commitment in service to others in which leadership was inherent to the role.

 

[Phoebus Apollo]

What do you define as "good" ECs in the context of competitiveness for these schools?

There’s no one-size-fits-all “good” EC. There are several threads that I’ve seen on this topic, and it’s worth a search if you’re curious. Here are a 3 examples though.

- excellent research, in which you had intellectual responsibility and ownership over project(s), and can talk about your work and what you learned in a compelling way
- outstanding service to others (as meme said, longitudinal is important here). You don’t need to start your own nonprofit, but you need to be clearly invested and have put in the time for people less fortunate.
- high level athletics (D1 or pro)

You don’t NEED to have one of these ECs, but you should obviously have something going on that sets you apart, particularly if you’re applying with stats below the median

 

[LizzyM]

Keep in mind that what you see in the MSAR is matriculants... every school in the top 20 are chasing the top candidates but each candidate can matriculate at only one school. Ergo, some schools might have slighly lower MSAR 90th percentile figures compared with the 90th percentile of interviewed applicants. Being in the ballpark compared with matriculants doesn't mean you are a shoo-in for an interview.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Keep in mind that what you see in the MSAR is matriculants... every school in the top 20 are chasing the top candidates but each candidate can matriculate at only one school. Ergo, some schools might have slighly lower MSAR 90th percentile figures compared with the 90th percentile of interviewed applicants. Being in the ballpark compared with matriculants doesn't mean you are a shoo-in for an interview.

@LizzyM. Can I get your opinion on my original question? Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Hi everyone. I just got my MCAT score back and I scored a 515 with 129/126/132/128 breakdown. My GPA is 3.99 and for the sake of discussion assume I have perfect extracurriculars (e.g. I have 6 publications, great research, great clinical experience, etc.) With my MCAT score, can I realistically still apply to top tier schools? Thank you!

The real MCAT W4ores are going to be looking for no section less than 127 and at least 3 sections of 130 or higher to get an interview unless you are legacy, VIP or URM. (examples: legacy: your parent(s) graduated from the med school. VIP: your parent holds elective office at the federal level or a family member is on the university's board of trustees.)

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

The real MCAT W4ores are going to be looking for no section less than 127 and at least 3 sections of 130 or higher to get an interview unless you are legacy, VIP or URM. (examples: legacy: your parent(s) graduated from the med school. VIP: your parent holds elective office at the federal level or a family member is on the university's board of trustees.)

Sigh. It's disappointing to still end up short with a 3.99/515. "Insert Rolling Stones: You Can't Always Get What You Want"

 

[LizzyM]

But if you try, sometimes you get what you need.... apply to at least 15 and you can make 3 of those your dream schools.

 

[907914]

Sigh. It's disappointing to still end up short with a 3.99/515

Bruh, you are above the stats for like 100 Medical schools, target for like 40, slightly too low for like 15, and a decent amount too low for 10. You still have a VERY good shot at getting in to a medical school. You should be proud of your GPA and MCAT.

But the thing is, a 515 is ‘only’ the 92%, which means that 6,400 applicants this cycle have a higher MCAT. Unfortunately, while still high and still something to be proud of, a 515 is still plentifully abundant in the applicant pool.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Can you explain what you mean by this ",slightly too low for like 15, and a decent amount too low for 10." Sorry, hardly could sleep last night waiting for my score. I'm a bit slow-headed today.

 

[907914]

Can you explain what you mean by this ",slightly too low for like 15, and a decent amount too low for 10." Sorry, hardly could sleep last night waiting for my score. I'm a bit slow-headed today.

Just get MSAR lol You will get a better idea of your own competitiveness. Our opinions here on SDN tend to be more on the pessimistic side - use statistics to your advantage. Better yet, go to the WAMC forums and follow the instructions, tag @Goro and @Faha and they will generate a school list for you.

 

[LizzyM]

Can you explain what you mean by this ",slightly too low for like 15, and a decent amount too low for 10." Sorry, hardly could sleep last night waiting for my score. I'm a bit slow-headed today.

You are way below the cut point for the 10 MCAT W4ore medical schools and you are slightly below about 15 other schools that like really high MCAT scorse. So, out of ~170 schools, you are too low for about 25 of them give or take meaning that most schools will like you just fine and some might even figure that you are too good for them and when you look at your offers, you will pick a "better" (more prestigious and/or cheaper) school that what they have to offer. You are going to be fine if you target your applications wisely.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

You are way below the cut point for the 10 MCAT W4ore medical schools and you are slightly below about 15 other schools that like really high MCAT scorse. So, out of ~170 schools, you are too low for about 25 of them give or take meaning that most schools will like you just fine and some might even figure that you are too good for them and when you look at your offers, you will pick a "better" (more prestigious and/or cheaper) school that what they have to offer. You are going to be fine if you target your applications wisely.

Do you have a rough list of these 25 schools? Thanks

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Also, by "apply to at least 15 " are you referring to 15th percentile or 15 schools?

 

[907914]

Also, by "apply to at least 15 " are you referring to 15th percentile or 15 schools?

15 schools. For the list, literally get MSAR.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

15 schools. For the list, literally get MSAR.

Thanks! You've been great help!

 

[Goro]

@Goro. You stated in your guide that we should only bother applying to Harvard/Stanford class schools if you have a 517 or higher. Would my GPA compensate for a slightly lower score than you recommend for applying to these schools?

Nope. 4.0's a dime a dozen.

 

[candbgirl]

Also, by "apply to at least 15 " are you referring to 15th percentile or 15 schools?

Really? Go get some sleep and then buy the MSAR and you’ll be just fine. What cycle are you applying? Good luck. You should have a very good cycle if you apply wisely.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Really? Go get some sleep and then buy the MSAR and you’ll be just fine. What cycle are you applying? Good luck. You should have a very good cycle if you apply wisely.

This cycle. Already verified for primaries. I am adding more schools today and going to go ham on secondaries, hoping to submit everything by labor day.

 

[blurb_123]

Nope. 4.0's a dime a dozen.

So the difference between a 515 and 517 is "significant" for applying to the schools mentioned above? I know you and others certainly seem to think so. Is this a reflection of their 25th percentile?

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

So the difference between a 515 and 517 is "significant" for applying to the schools mentioned above? I know you and others certainly seem to think so. Is this a reflection of their 25th percentile?

I think so. I used the MSAR as they recommended and I am below the 10th percentile for only UPenn and Hopkins, so I'm not going to bother applying there. However, a 517 would put you above 10th percentile, so at least you would have a reasonable shot. A 515 puts me at 25th percentile for Harvard and Stanford, so at least I have a reasonable shot there with solid ECs.

 

[blurb_123]

I think so. I used the MSAR as they recommended and I am below the 10th percentile for only UPenn and Hopkins, so I'm not going to bother applying there. However, a 517 would put you above 10th percentile, so at least you would have a reasonable shot. A 515 puts me at 25th percentile for Harvard and Stanford, so at least I have a reasonable shot there with solid ECs.

PM me.

 

[907914]

I think so. I used the MSAR as they recommended and I am below the 10th percentile for only UPenn and Hopkins, so I'm not going to bother applying there. However, a 517 would put you above 10th percentile, so at least you would have a reasonable shot. A 515 puts me at 25th percentile for Harvard and Stanford, so at least I have a reasonable shot there with solid ECs.

Remember to make most of your list where you are 59-90% for the MCAT. Being at 25% for MCAT makes something a reach and being at 10% makes it a far reach (in my book)

 

[Goro]

So the difference between a 515 and 517 is "significant" for applying to the schools mentioned above? I know you and others certainly seem to think so. Is this a reflection of their 25th percentile?

A 515 vs a 517 is a enough to make me NOT recommend WashU/NYU class schools for the former score.

 

[Epyon]

OP the take away here is to not top load your app but you can pick a few dream schools and you may even get a surprise interview from one of them. Just add low and mids to be safe too. Good luck, even though you won't need it.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Half a dozen publications, however, is more than most applicants at top-20 schools have. OP is going to have a bit of an uphill battle at these schools, yes, but it's not unreasonable to have four or five top-20 schools on a list that consists mostly of midtiers and state schools. Someone's got to be below the median MCAT, and it might as well be you. In fact, your research might be one of the "good ECs" that @Phoebus Apollo talks about.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Bruh, you are above the stats for like 100 Medical schools, target for like 40, slightly too low for like 15, and a decent amount too low for 10. You still have a VERY good shot at getting in to a medical school. You should be proud of your GPA and MCAT.

But the thing is, a 515 is ‘only’ the 92%, which means that 6,400 applicants this cycle have a higher MCAT. Unfortunately, while still high and still something to be proud of, a 515 is still plentifully abundant in the applicant pool.

The real MCAT W4ores are going to be looking for no section less than 127 and at least 3 sections of 130 or higher to get an interview unless you are legacy, VIP or URM. (examples: legacy: your parent(s) graduated from the med school. VIP: your parent holds elective office at the federal level or a family member is on the university's board of trustees.)

These are medical schools with MCAT medians of 520 or higher for matriculants, I assume?

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Could someone check out my final school list? @Faha @MemeLord

Harvard

Stanford

UCSF

Columbia

UCLA

Cornell

Mayo

Duke

Pittsburgh

UMIch

Icahn

UCSD

Baylor

UNC-Chapel Hill

Case Western

Emory

University of Virginia

Boston U

UC Davis

Keck

Ohio State

Brown

University of Rochester

Albert Einstein

Cincinnati

Dartmouth

UC Irvine

Wake Forest

Iowa

Temple University

Rosalind Franklin

Rush

Hofstra

Eastern Virgina Medical School

Oakland

Western Mich

California University

Kaiser

Drexel

University of Vermont

Mayo- Arizona campus

Stony Brook

 

[907914]

Harvard - far reach, reach if there is something stand out about you
Stanford - far reach
UCSF - far-ish reach
Columbia - reach
UCLA - reach
Cornell - reach
Mayo - reach
Duke - reach
Pittsburgh - slight reach
UMIch - target
Icahn - slight reach
UCSD - target
Baylor - low OOS, they really only take high MCAT for OOS
UNC-Chapel Hill - low OOS
Case Western - target
Emory - target
University of Virginia - slight reach
Boston U - target, but really heavily favors New England
UC Davis - target
Keck - target
Ohio State - target
Brown - target, favors New England and their own undergrad
University of Rochester - lowish target
Albert Einstein - target
Cincinnati - target
Dartmouth - target
UC Irvine - target
Wake Forest - lowish target
Iowa - lowish target
Temple University - lowish target
Rosalind Franklin - lowish
Rush - lowish
Hofstra - target
Eastern Virgina Medical School - lowish
Oakland - lowish
Western michigan - target
California University - target
Kaiser - target
Drexel - lowlow
University of Vermont - low
Mayo- Arizona campus - reach
Stony Brook - target

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Harvard - far reach, reach if there is something stand out about you
Stanford - far reach
UCSF - far-ish reach
Columbia - reach
UCLA - reach
Cornell - reach
Mayo - reach
Duke - reach
Pittsburgh - slight reach
UMIch - target
Icahn - slight reach
UCSD - target
Baylor - low OOS, they really only take high MCAT for OOS
UNC-Chapel Hill - low OOS
Case Western - target
Emory - target
University of Virginia - slight reach
Boston U - target, but really heavily favors New England
UC Davis - target
Keck - target
Ohio State - target
Brown - target, favors New England and their own undergrad
University of Rochester - lowish target
Albert Einstein - target
Cincinnati - target
Dartmouth - target
UC Irvine - target
Wake Forest - lowish target
Iowa - lowish target
Temple University - lowish target
Rosalind Franklin - lowish
Rush - lowish
Hofstra - target
Eastern Virgina Medical School - lowish
Oakland - lowish
Western michigan - target
California University - target
Kaiser - target
Drexel - lowlow
University of Vermont - low
Mayo- Arizona campus - reach
Stony Brook - target

So overall, would you say it is fine, or should I add in more mid/low tier schools?

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Replace UNC and Baylor with a couple other midtiers. Your list may be a little top-heavy, but then again your research is quite good. I wonder what @Goro and @Faha think about this list, to be honest.

 

[Goro]

Replace UNC and Baylor with a couple other midtiers. Your list may be a little top-heavy, but then again your research is quite good. I wonder what @Goro and @Faha think about this list, to be honest.

I've already given OP my list.