Am I postponing life 4 years or 8?

[EMK295]

Hello, I am a nontraditional student due to age. I'll be 30 or 31 by the time I'm able to take the MCAT. Instead of a typical biology degree, I am getting a nontraditional bachelors as well (Education for middle and secondary education, science).

This means I will have the option to be a teacher as well. I've been struggling between the two, because both are amazing careers centered around providing for others. The biggest deciding factor now is that fact that at 30, I want to begin living my life fully. As a teacher, I can do that. But as a doctor, I'll have to postpone it before I am able to experience life in a career outside of schooling. But the ability to live a much better life (psychiatry doesn't have the same lifestyle difficulties as other specialties, and many teachers have difficult lifestyle balances due to work load which is way half of all teachers quit by the 5th year).

So the thing that is weighing on the decision is how long I'll be postponing life for the payoff of a better life. Since residency is paid (and paid fairly well compared to a teacher who may only earn 45-50k 5 years into teaching), and there are fairly recent adjustments to how much they can work, should I assume I'm putting off living fully until after residency? I hear 80 hours is the max, but how that's done can be a major thing (5 16-hour days is better than 7 8-hour days, despite being much more hours). Bare in mind, I intend to forebear the loans until out of residency, than dump half my new income into knocking it down for 2 or 3 years. I should be able to do that while still increasing spending cash.

So, should I see myself as trading 4 years, or 8 years? Or somewhere inbetween, since not all years of residency are the same. I believe I can give up four years for the payoff in wage, and in a since of self-fulfillment, but I just don't know if I can feel like I'm giving up having a life until I'm 40, even for 200-250k a year.

And please, no humorous exaggerations, sugarcoating, or references to highly specific anecdotes that aren't likely to apply to me.

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[gyngyn]

Medical school and residency were some of the richest years of my life. It was the very opposite of postponement.
If the 7 to 10ish years of education and training seem like a postponement of life, I would discourage this path.

 

[EMK295]

Medical school and residency were some of the richest years of my life. It was the very opposite of postponement.
If the 7 to 10ish years of education and training seem like a postponement of life, I would discourage this path.

you're misunderstanding what I mean. You can't easily buy a house or start a family while in school. You don't have a strong income in medical school without compromising your grade, and having a kid in medical school can be academically disastrous.

"Living life" means two entirely different things to people in their twenties compared to people in their thirties. "Rich life in college" at 25 is not a "rich life" at 35. Entirely incomparable. At 20, you have all the time in the world. At 40, you do not.

I am willing to consider waiting 4 more years to begin living as someone who has entered their thirties would want to live. Not 20's living. I am not willing to wait until I am 40.

Please answer the question as I have provided it. Not with anecdotes relying on a different definition of "living life" which is not applicable to someone in their thirties.

 

[M&L]

you're misunderstanding what I mean. You can't easily buy a house or start a family while in school. You don't have a strong income in medical school without compromising your grade, and having a kid in medical school can be academically disastrous.

"Living life" means two entirely different things to people in their twenties compared to people in their thirties. "Rich life" at 25 is not a "rich life" at 40. Entirely incomparable.

One of my friends had a kid while in medical school . Hard but doable with support system .

 

[EMK295]

One of my friends had a kid while in medical school . Hard but doable with support system .

"hard but doable" means avoiding it if at all possible.

I'm not asking about medical school. I'm asking about residency.

 

[EMK295]

I am specifically referring to life as someone in their thirties would consider a fulfilling and full life. Not as someone in their twenties would consider it. And I am not asking about medical school, I am specifically asking about residency.

Will residency mean putting off on living life, as a thirty year old would consider a successful life, like in medical school, or will I be able to begin living life (again, as someone who is 35 will want to live life) once I start residency?

 

[Stride]

I am specifically referring to life as someone in their thirties would consider a fulfilling and full life. Not as someone in their twenties would consider it. And I am not asking about medical school, I am specifically asking about residency.

Will residency mean putting off on living life, as a thirty year old would consider a successful life, like in medical school, or will I be able to begin living life (again, as someone who is 35 will want to live life) once I start residency?

The reason you are not getting specific answers to your question is because it is unanswerable without knowing you personally. What you consider to be fulfilling may not be the same as someone else in their thirties. That is what Gyngyn's point was.

For residency, it will entirely depend on what field you go into. If you go into surgery? You will be doing 65+ hours per week consistently, which will definitely lower your QOL. Other internships might be more suitable for your situation: family med, internal med, and others are much less time-consuming based on what I have been told.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

you're misunderstanding what I mean. You can't easily buy a house or start a family while in school. You don't have a strong income in medical school without compromising your grade, and having a kid in medical school can be academically disastrous.

"Living life" means two entirely different things to people in their twenties compared to people in their thirties. "Rich life in college" at 25 is not a "rich life" at 35. Entirely incomparable. At 20, you have all the time in the world. At 40, you do not.

I am willing to consider waiting 4 more years to begin living as someone who has entered their thirties would want to live. Not 20's living. I am not willing to wait until I am 40.

Please answer the question as I have provided it. Not with anecdotes relying on a different definition of "living life" which is not applicable to someone in their thirties.

Well, what does "living life" mean to you exactly? Not everyone at 30 has the same goals, and not everyone at 20 has those supposedly shallow definitions of a "meaningful life" as you seem to assume. Without specifying your goals how are people supposed to give you individualized advice?

 

[GreenDuck12]

So, should I see myself as trading 4 years, or 8 years? Or somewhere inbetween, since not all years of residency are the same. I believe I can give up four years for the payoff in wage, and in a since of self-fulfillment, but I just don't know if I can feel like I'm giving up having a life until I'm 40, even for 200-250k a year.

The framing of this question is problematic as there is too much variability for anyone to answer. You may find yourself attending a supportive medical school where having children during medical school is possible. Or you might not. You might decide to pursue a specialty that lends itself to more time to spend with family. Or you might not. You might pick a specialty that is relatively short that enables you to pursue other things with your time and resources. Or you might not.

I was a teacher for 6 years prior to staring medical school at 30. I thoroughly enjoyed my time in education and would happily still teach if I did not want to work on other challenges for my career. That being said, objectively, I see my peers achieve life milestones that I have not. Personally, this does not bother me. That does not mean that it won't bother you.

FWIW, if the economic payoff at the end is the driving force of your decision - I really wouldn't do it. The idea of a guaranteed 200-250k salary isn't set in stone. Market forces may change for your chosen specialty or location. Would it still be worth it if you only made 150k? If you view medical school and residency as something to get through in order to start living, I wouldn't go to medical school. That being said there are plenty of ways to manage things so that you can have hobbies and a life outside of school, but as with all things, there are tradeoffs.

I suggest spending some time thinking about what you want to achieve both in your personal life and your professional life, and then go from there.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Banco]

Sounds like you really hate the idea of "delaying life" and associate medical school/residency with that concept. In that case, I think you'll be unhappy.


That being said, there are many non-trads in medical school too. The questions you are asking are too personal for anyone on this board to realistically consider.

 

[wysdoc]

Maybe you'll find some stories that resonate with you in the Non-trad forum Nontraditional Students

There's a big component of delayed gratification in med school, for sure.

 

[Goro]

you're misunderstanding what I mean. You can't easily buy a house or start a family while in school. You don't have a strong income in medical school without compromising your grade, and having a kid in medical school can be academically disastrous.

"Living life" means two entirely different things to people in their twenties compared to people in their thirties. "Rich life in college" at 25 is not a "rich life" at 35. Entirely incomparable. At 20, you have all the time in the world. At 40, you do not.

I am willing to consider waiting 4 more years to begin living as someone who has entered their thirties would want to live. Not 20's living. I am not willing to wait until I am 40.

Please answer the question as I have provided it. Not with anecdotes relying on a different definition of "living life" which is not applicable to someone in their thirties.

Based upon your concerns, I can't recommend Medicine.

 

[candbgirl]

Maybe you'll find some stories that resonate with you in the Non-trad forum Nontraditional Students

There's a big component of delayed gratification in med school, for sure.

This- no matter if you are starting med school/residency at 25 or 45 you are prioritizing your life goals . I think you’d be miserable with this choice. And there are no guarantees in salary, place of residency etc... But good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[stickgirl390]

I worked as a high school science teacher for 2 years before starting medical school. I’m currently an M4, so I can’t give you the insight of a resident. I’m also in my 30s, and financed all of my schooling through loans. So, we have a lot in common.

If you have any specific questions about either career, feel free to DM me. I very much enjoyed teaching and do miss it at times, but at the end of the day the income isn’t worth the stress. Almost every teacher I worked with had a “side hustle” for extra cash or was in school to switch careers. (I worked at two different schools: one very rural low income, and one suburban middle-class.)

I postponed having children and owning a home until at least residency, if not further, but those are personal decisions and only you will know what’s best for you.

At the end of the day, if you compare either career based on what you’ll be “giving up”, you won’t be happy regardless of what you choose. You have to decide based on what you will gain, not just what you will lose.

 

[Pshalt]

I started medical school on my 30th birthday. I was a scientist making 40K when I started. I had the same questions, looking at starting a new career at 40 was daunting. I felt like I gave up 2 years of life in the pre-clinical years. I loved the clinical years and I loved residency. It wasn't easy, but I love medicine and working hard so it felt right. After 4 years, you are a doctor, making decent money, but working pretty hard. It does depend on specialty. 30 years later, it was worth it.

 

[DokterMom]

I know we're not supposed to diagnose, but it appears you are suffering from a pretty significant case of destination syndrome. The point is, you're already living your life, and the sooner you internalize that realization, the happier you'll be on either course.

Also realize that the choice may not be yours. Only 40% of the people who apply to medical school are accepted.

 

[LizzyM]

What I hear you saying @EMK295 is that you'd like to be out of school and doing the things people do when they are not in school (buy a house, have kids) when you are in your 30s and you don't see those activities as possibilities when one is in medical school. It is true that one earns little to no money in medical school, one may accumulate considerable debt while in medical school, one has little free time while in medical school, and one faces the possibility of moving every few years from medical school, to residency, to fellowship and/or first job. Those are contraints (time, money, location) that people who find employment at age 30 are not facing.

If you are interested in medicine as a career, you are taking a very non-traditional path by getting a degree is middle and secondary science education. Have you shadowed a few physicians? Have you had any classroom teaching experiences as a student? Both are necessary professions that serve the community. One has a much shorter path to licensure but also a lower ceiling in terms of earning potential. Everything in life is a tradeoff.

If the sacrifices seem to be too much, then your gut may be telling you that medicine, for all the pluses of it, is not the right choice for you given your circumstances, and that's okay.

 

[MisterMukwa]

.

 

[M&L]

Agree with everything that was said . But just to add a perspective of a career changing non traditional student in the 30s- I thought I did live a life before , I had a great job, was in relationship that was leading to marriage, etc. but something was missing . I was miserable , because I felt like I was wasting my life and my brains away . Then I started medicsl school , and even though that relationship didn’t work out (apparently I wasn’t allowed to be more successful than my partner), I am HAPPIER than I’ve EVER been . Ever . I feel like I am JUST NoW LIVING MY LIFE. Every time I am in a hospital I feel like there is no other place I am supposed to be in . (M2 here)

before I was existing . Now I am LIVING.

I have pets, hobbies (a lot of hobbies), a part time job (I know, crazy), I go out to have drinks and food, and walk/run 4 miles a day . I am living the best happiest life I’ve ever lived .

so you need to decide what is the best life in your idea.

also on side note, from financial perspective , MD career will greatly improve your quality of life long term .

 

[proudofmykids]

Hello, I am a nontraditional student due to age. I'll be 30 or 31 by the time I'm able to take the MCAT. Instead of a typical biology degree, I am getting a nontraditional bachelors as well (Education for middle and secondary education, science).

This means I will have the option to be a teacher as well. I've been struggling between the two, because both are amazing careers centered around providing for others. The biggest deciding factor now is that fact that at 30, I want to begin living my life fully. As a teacher, I can do that. But as a doctor, I'll have to postpone it before I am able to experience life in a career outside of schooling. But the ability to live a much better life (psychiatry doesn't have the same lifestyle difficulties as other specialties, and many teachers have difficult lifestyle balances due to work load which is way half of all teachers quit by the 5th year).

So the thing that is weighing on the decision is how long I'll be postponing life for the payoff of a better life. Since residency is paid (and paid fairly well compared to a teacher who may only earn 45-50k 5 years into teaching), and there are fairly recent adjustments to how much they can work, should I assume I'm putting off living fully until after residency? I hear 80 hours is the max, but how that's done can be a major thing (5 16-hour days is better than 7 8-hour days, despite being much more hours). Bare

in mind, I intend to forebear the loans until out of residency, than dump half my new income into knocking it down for 2 or 3 years. I should be able to do that while still increasing spending cash.

So, should I see myself as trading 4 years, or 8 years? Or somewhere inbetween, since not all years of residency are the same. I believe I can give up four years for the payoff in wage, and in a since of self-fulfillment, but I just don't know if I can feel like I'm giving up having a life until I'm 40, even for 200-250k a year.

And please, no humorous exaggerations, sugarcoating, or references to highly specific anecdotes that aren't likely to apply to me.

The answer to your question is Four Years Delay of “progressing life outside ‘work’”with a few caveats.
1. You won’t have geographic full control choosing your residency.
2. If you are a women, having a child in residency might extend it (you’ll have to research it.)
3. Lifestyle is supported through full COA loans and determined by school but typically range from $25-$35K depending on location.

Residents live busy lives but socialize, have families, vacations etc like all young professionals of which many also work 50-70hrs a week depending on their profession. As you indicated, you Residency income of $80k will exceed your other path (likely true even with IBR of loans).

 

[meddreamafter30]

Hello, I am a nontraditional student due to age. I'll be 30 or 31 by the time I'm able to take the MCAT. Instead of a typical biology degree, I am getting a nontraditional bachelors as well (Education for middle and secondary education, science).

This means I will have the option to be a teacher as well. I've been struggling between the two, because both are amazing careers centered around providing for others. The biggest deciding factor now is that fact that at 30, I want to begin living my life fully. As a teacher, I can do that. But as a doctor, I'll have to postpone it before I am able to experience life in a career outside of schooling. But the ability to live a much better life (psychiatry doesn't have the same lifestyle difficulties as other specialties, and many teachers have difficult lifestyle balances due to work load which is way half of all teachers quit by the 5th year).

So the thing that is weighing on the decision is how long I'll be postponing life for the payoff of a better life. Since residency is paid (and paid fairly well compared to a teacher who may only earn 45-50k 5 years into teaching), and there are fairly recent adjustments to how much they can work, should I assume I'm putting off living fully until after residency? I hear 80 hours is the max, but how that's done can be a major thing (5 16-hour days is better than 7 8-hour days, despite being much more hours). Bare in mind, I intend to forebear the loans until out of residency, than dump half my new income into knocking it down for 2 or 3 years. I should be able to do that while still increasing spending cash.

So, should I see myself as trading 4 years, or 8 years? Or somewhere inbetween, since not all years of residency are the same. I believe I can give up four years for the payoff in wage, and in a since of self-fulfillment, but I just don't know if I can feel like I'm giving up having a life until I'm 40, even for 200-250k a year.

And please, no humorous exaggerations, sugarcoating, or references to highly specific anecdotes that aren't likely to apply to me.

Hi! I’m also a non traditional student, I just turn 41 in Feb. I did a bachelor in chemistry, worked for the pharmaceutical industry...went back to school, did a degree in Nutrition and Dietetics, had a private practice for several years... Now I’m a second year medical student (MS2). I’m not gonna lie, it is difficult. You didn’t shared your family dynamics, but in my case I’m a mom and during this past year and a half have been homeschooling due to COVID, so it’s been brutal. I don’t change it though. I’m gonna be a Doctor, and I know there’s no other profession that I see me practicing- have tried several lol!
However, having a career to fall back on in case you don’t love medicine is always a plus. Additionally it gives you a more ample vie of the world and in the end makes you a better doctor. So, go for it!

 

[The Med-Peds Dude]

I was 32 when I started medical school. I also did a 4 year residency. My counterpart in my program had 1 child late in his 4th year and twins in his second. He's still married and the kids just finished college. This was a primary care residency and pre-duty hour protection. I paid interest on my loans and felt moderately middle class. As far as I understand, Psych residents do not work long hours except when doing rotations like IM (1st year?). Formal education training is fleeting at best during training, and could be a plus.

 

[doctorNMeastcoast]

Hello, I am a nontraditional student due to age. I'll be 30 or 31 by the time I'm able to take the MCAT. Instead of a typical biology degree, I am getting a nontraditional bachelors as well (Education for middle and secondary education, science).

This means I will have the option to be a teacher as well. I've been struggling between the two, because both are amazing careers centered around providing for others. The biggest deciding factor now is that fact that at 30, I want to begin living my life fully. As a teacher, I can do that. But as a doctor, I'll have to postpone it before I am able to experience life in a career outside of schooling. But the ability to live a much better life (psychiatry doesn't have the same lifestyle difficulties as other specialties, and many teachers have difficult lifestyle balances due to work load which is way half of all teachers quit by the 5th year).

So the thing that is weighing on the decision is how long I'll be postponing life for the payoff of a better life. Since residency is paid (and paid fairly well compared to a teacher who may only earn 45-50k 5 years into teaching), and there are fairly recent adjustments to how much they can work, should I assume I'm putting off living fully until after residency? I hear 80 hours is the max, but how that's done can be a major thing (5 16-hour days is better than 7 8-hour days, despite being much more hours). Bare in mind, I intend to forebear the loans until out of residency, than dump half my new income into knocking it down for 2 or 3 years. I should be able to do that while still increasing spending cash.

So, should I see myself as trading 4 years, or 8 years? Or somewhere inbetween, since not all years of residency are the same. I believe I can give up four years for the payoff in wage, and in a since of self-fulfillment, but I just don't know if I can feel like I'm giving up having a life until I'm 40, even for 200-250k a year.

And please, no humorous exaggerations, sugarcoating, or references to highly specific anecdotes that aren't likely to apply to me.

I began DO school at age 28 and finished at 32. Residency in IM until age 35 (with my first baby born third year so I took 6 mos. off). Then MPH age 36-37. Second baby age 39. My residency: Kaiser w/o overnight i.e. 30 hour shifts. I worked 60-100 hours/week. The 80 hour week is not real because it is reported to programs who pressure residents into under-reporting their hours. If it were reported directly to ACGME, then it could be accurate.

My mother taught for decades. I saw her at the kitchen table nightly grading and doing lesson plans. Up at 5:30 AM to be ready. Teaching hours are very long too.

I love learning so I chose the longest most thorough path. I am happy I did it. But I'm also weird because I still study all kinds of things in my spare time.

Don't go for the money whatever you do. You have to burn inside to do medicine or teaching.

Regarding loans, I owe $400K but am doing public service loan forgiveness so that ought to be cancelled in late 2022.

Best wishes.

 

[tracheatoedoc]

I started Med School at 33. Best years of my life. It was like going from adulthood to college again.

 

[Lucca]

It is literally impossible to postpone life. This is your life. You are always living it. Make the most of every phase of it.

 

[Coldwater_Adler]

I am 32. I have a wife and three children, one of whom has Trisomy 13. I am starting an MPH next month and then my DO program in the fall. I could not be happier with my decision. We will see how I feel halfway through the first year, lol. I would not recommend another in my shoes to attend medical school, but I have wanted this for so many years. I have explored multiple careers (e.g., EMT, working with the disabled, teaching, sales, waiter, factory) and I just wasn't satisfied. I wanted to be a doctor.

I dont view medical school as postponing my life at all. Its just another stepping stone and stage of my life. If you see medical school as postponing your life then I really wouldn't recommend you go down this path. That's my two cents anyway

 

[SARMed]

Hey, fellow nontrad here. If all goes according to timelines, I'd start medical school at 31 or 32.

There are a few things you mentioned that have me concerned if this is the most appropriate path for you.
1. As others have mentioned, your definition of delaying life.
2. Why you want to be a physician.

Others have mentioned that life doesn't stop when you're in medical school. The things that you're interested in, like buying a house and having children, are difficult in school and residency. Not impossible, but difficult - it does sound like minimizing the difficulty of these two things is really important to you, and I am afraid that the training path might leave you bitter and resentful of medicine. You have one life, and that means being honest with yourself of what's important to you.

More alarming though, nowhere in this post do I get a sense for what your motivation is for entering medicine. Based on this post and previous posts you made, I don't see a compelling reason that you have for entering medicine, other than "it's a career where you help people." This leads me to believe that when you ask this question, you're boiling it down to the following - "I'm learning for a service oriented career now (teaching) and physicians help people too. Which helping people career is best for my desires to have kids and buy a house in my 30s?" This indicates to me that you haven't spent enough time to understand what being a physician is all about - spending some time with clinical experience and shadowing may help you make a more informed decision.

Best of luck on wherever your journey takes you.

 

[YCAGA]

With your mentality, you are postponing life however many years you have left on this planet because you are never going to be happy in the present. So don’t go full YOLO but also stop worrying about this kind of stuff. Not healthy or productive

 

[mcat_taker]

Med school was the best 4 years of my life. I didn’t feel like I was really living UNTIL I went to medical school. I greatly expanded my social network and now have some of the best friends of my life from med school. Now I’m about to start residency in my early 30s.

 

[SoyMedico20]

Hello, I am a nontraditional student due to age. I'll be 30 or 31 by the time I'm able to take the MCAT. Instead of a typical biology degree, I am getting a nontraditional bachelors as well (Education for middle and secondary education, science).

This means I will have the option to be a teacher as well. I've been struggling between the two, because both are amazing careers centered around providing for others. The biggest deciding factor now is that fact that at 30, I want to begin living my life fully. As a teacher, I can do that. But as a doctor, I'll have to postpone it before I am able to experience life in a career outside of schooling. But the ability to live a much better life (psychiatry doesn't have the same lifestyle difficulties as other specialties, and many teachers have difficult lifestyle balances due to work load which is way half of all teachers quit by the 5th year).

So the thing that is weighing on the decision is how long I'll be postponing life for the payoff of a better life. Since residency is paid (and paid fairly well compared to a teacher who may only earn 45-50k 5 years into teaching), and there are fairly recent adjustments to how much they can work, should I assume I'm putting off living fully until after residency? I hear 80 hours is the max, but how that's done can be a major thing (5 16-hour days is better than 7 8-hour days, despite being much more hours). Bare in mind, I intend to forebear the loans until out of residency, than dump half my new income into knocking it down for 2 or 3 years. I should be able to do that while still increasing spending cash.

So, should I see myself as trading 4 years, or 8 years? Or somewhere inbetween, since not all years of residency are the same. I believe I can give up four years for the payoff in wage, and in a since of self-fulfillment, but I just don't know if I can feel like I'm giving up having a life until I'm 40, even for 200-250k a year.

And please, no humorous exaggerations, sugarcoating, or references to highly specific anecdotes that aren't likely to apply to me.

I was 58-year-old when I entered medical school (background in software engineering). I applied to 57 schools, got 4 interviews and one offer. Medical school is as tough as people say it is. At 62 I applied to the match. OK, to be fair, boards, not stellar, GPA, not bad through. 200 applications, 4 interviews, no offers. In the Scramble 39 applications, zero interviews. Now, you are not as old as I am. I don't think you will hit the glass ceiling as hard as I did. My major concern for you is that you are thinking that medicine will force you to postpone your life. If you wake up every morning for the next 8 years counting the days until you can have your life back, you will quickly hate every minute of medicine. You will quickly burn out, and you will likely drop out. If you do not love every minute of medicine you are in the wrong field. Find your joy and happiness and follow it. If it is not climbing sheer cliffs while being blasted with a fire hose of information (medicine) you are not going to make it. Sorry, you didn't want sugarcoating.

 

[emergentmd]

Am I reading correctly that some think med school & residency are the richest years of their lives? I really do not and can not understand this. I guess everything is all relative and some could very well have lived some really terrible lives pre medicine. Learning medicine being fascinating, sure. Meeting a lot of great people, sure.

But don't kid yourself that it was the richest experience.