Am I screwed?

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fifm

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Hi... so I have a question.

Will not having much clinical volunteer hours/exposure and shadowing do me in?
I have about 30 hours of clinical volunteering, and about 30 hours of shadowing...

The rest of my application is strong. I'm non-trad, (currently 3 years out of undergrad). Several research experiences for the past 6+ years, TONS of non-clinical volunteering, interesting experiences, international experiences, lots of leadership, interesting ECs, ~10 merit scholarships, etc. etc...I have a competitive gpa and am expecting a competitive mcat (waiting on my score still)...

do I have a chance at getting some interviews at MD programs?

I'm good at interviewing and don't think I'll have any trouble talking about the value of these experiences and what I learned, but will i get interview invites without the hundreds of hours others have?

I have several personal close friends who got into top 10 schools without much clinical hours, but after getting on SDN I feel concerned...

tl;dr
Strong application except for clinical volunteering/shadowing (~30 hours of each).... chance of getting interviews?

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Not having enough clinical volunteering is a big no-no. I say this from browsing the threads of reapps with otherwise strong applications.
 
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a lot of "depends on" but if it's as good as you're saying i think you still have a chance. i assume you are still doing the clinical volunteering and shadowing? if so, then you could include the projected # of hours in the description and that you plan to continue doing it until matriculation. i had a member of admissions at UNMC tell me that is a good idea for something that is recently started.
 
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How can you devote so much time to the other activities, but not do the activities that are the most important for this process? I am not sure if 30 hours of volunteering and shadowing will be enough to talk about in interviews. How are you going to convince adcoms that you want medicine, not just research?

Were any of your research experiences clinical?
 
You need enough clinical hours to know that medicine is the right path for you. Do you think those 30 active, 30 passive hours are sufficient to help you make the decision? If so, you are fine. You may need to make an effort to convince otherwise doubtful adcoms through your application/interview, but you are fine.
 
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Your non clinical volunteering, research experience, international travel, merit scholarships, and all that jazz cannot possibly provide any insight as to whether or not you like working with and around ill people. Clinical volunteering is one way to do that.
 
If your stats are high enough, there is certainly a chance. If not, rack up some more volunteering and shadowing over the summer and continue to update your application. If all else fails, beef up your volunteering (shadowing really peaks at about 50 hours for effect on your application) and you'll get in next year. Good luck!
 
I've met a few people like you - NIH research, tons of other research and leadership and what not but almost no clinical and shadowing experiences. I think that having so little clinical experience will be unconvincing to medical schools that you really want to be a physician especially considering that you had entire 3 years since graduating college to certainly get a lot more than 30 hours of each.
 
Thanks, everyone, for the insight and thoughts! I appreciate your time! This has been helpful! :)
 
One more question... is volunteering in the ED of a hospital the best way to get this patient exposure (is this valued higher than other types of clinical exposure). How would, say, volunteering as a phlebotomist at a low-income clinic be perceived?

Some people mention nursing home or hospice... these seem like very specific populations... would these be good experiences to speak about in interviews?

Is there anything else as an option?

Thanks, again!
 
The answer to this question will depend on what it is you want to do post med school. Do you want to mainly focus on research or focus exclusively on providing care? If the latter is your choice, you will more than likely find that your path to med school will be very difficult especially with the lack of shadowing/volunteering hours. I am working with quite a few clients now and I can tell you that for this application cycle, the hours for such activities are really really up there. -admissions to medicine
 
That makes sense! I do want a career in academic medicine...

Also, how do people get so many hours shadowing? My experience is that it's very difficult to find physicians who will let you shadow them, and when they do, it's only for a few hours... Any advice? Are there any places out there that would let me come out and shadow them for like a week straight or something?
 
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Most people who get lots of shadowing have connections. If you want more clinical exposure have you looked into becoming a medical scribe? This was an awesome way for me to pick up all kinds of shadowing hours.
 
One more question... is volunteering in the ED of a hospital the best way to get this patient exposure (is this valued higher than other types of clinical exposure). How would, say, volunteering as a phlebotomist at a low-income clinic be perceived?

Some people mention nursing home or hospice... these seem like very specific populations... would these be good experiences to speak about in interviews?

Is there anything else as an option?

Thanks, again!

No, volunteering in a hospital is no more impressive or genuine than volunteering at a nursing home - some of our adcom members have actually said the opposite in fact. Get experience where you can, often hospitals are hard to get into and you may easily not get an opportunity to volunteer with patients - thus not clinical.
 
Screwed? Absolutely.
Most successful applicants have > 100 hrs volunteering. You need to show us that you know what you're getting into, and that you really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

My school and others have rejected high GPA/high MCAT applicants because they lacked this crucial EC.

If you want to be a doctor, you're going to have to earn it.



Hi... so I have a question.

Will not having much clinical volunteer hours/exposure and shadowing do me in?
I have about 30 hours of clinical volunteering, and about 30 hours of shadowing...

The rest of my application is strong. I'm non-trad, (currently 3 years out of undergrad). Several research experiences for the past 6+ years, TONS of non-clinical volunteering, interesting experiences, international experiences, lots of leadership, interesting ECs, ~10 merit scholarships, etc. etc...I have a competitive gpa and am expecting a competitive mcat (waiting on my score still)...

do I have a chance at getting some interviews at MD programs?

I'm good at interviewing and don't think I'll have any trouble talking about the value of these experiences and what I learned, but will i get interview invites without the hundreds of hours others have?

I have several personal close friends who got into top 10 schools without much clinical hours, but after getting on SDN I feel concerned...

tl;dr
Strong application except for clinical volunteering/shadowing (~30 hours of each).... chance of getting interviews?
 
Speaking from experience, a lack of clinical volunteering is a deal-breaker. Take a year to work on that and apply next cycle.
 
I barely had any shadowing experience and only about 60 hours of clinical volunteering when I applied. However, I was lucky to be assigned to a department that had a superb team of nurses and physicians who were willing to speak to me about their careers and experiences. I wrote about what I learned from them in detail in my personal statement and the extracurricular section. During interviews, I had more than one interviewer who commented on how I did not have that many hours (so I agree that you should aim to have at least 100 hours) but asked me to describe a significant/meaningful moment in those 60 hours. I think ultimately they want to know what you learned from the "reality of medicine" and why you still want to pursue the career despite the potential sacrifices.

In all, I think I was one of the more fortunate ones who received interviews. But I just wanted to mention that conveying the experience effectively in the application may offset the number of clinical hours if you're a bit on the short end.
 
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Thanks, everyone!
Two questions:

1. Would working in a clinical research setting count?

2. What is the minimum number of hours of clinical volunteering to be competitive, then? It seems like everyone on this board either has like <50 hours or else >1000 hours... How many should I have to make adcoms not hate my application? 100? 200? 300? 400?...
 
You will never be rejected for too many hours :)

I would say the less competitive the rest of your app is, the more you would need.
Same goes for increasing level of competition in school (if they prefer IS and you are OOS, etc)
 
I applied with something like 110 hours of clinical volunteering, 15 hours of community service, and about 500 hours total of leadership positions/service (tennis team captain, chair of an intercollegiate outing association, newsletter editor of an outing association).
 
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20 hours MD shadowing (gen surg and psych) plus 42 hours DO shadowing (urgent care). The DO shadowing also involved some clinical experience, as I got to do patient intake, vitals, history, and presentation. That was a lot of fun, actually. I got to take full patient histories solo in exam rooms, then present the case to the physician, then shadow him when he actually saw the patient.
 
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thats pretty neat. i was beginning to worry when you didn't mention shadowing haha.
 
Does working with people with behavioral disorders count?
I volunteered with kids who had behavioral problems (from autism to aggression).
For some reason I didn't think of this before as patient exposure because they're not physically ill... but technically this should count, right? or does mental health not count?
 
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Mental health totally counts.
 
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Awesome, thank you so much baxt1412!
 
honestly i couldn't imagine it not counting. i am by means no expert. this is my first app cycle and didnt come from a big pre-med school (or a big school at all) but i dont foresee any school saying mental health volunteering doesn't count as volunteering. now if it wasn't in a clinic then obviously it's not clinical, but it's still volunteering.
 
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