medmom

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Here's the deal. I am a VERY nontraditional student. I am 21 and currently pregnant with my 3rd child. I had my first in high school so gave up the dream of med school and decided to do nursing. Well after an unimpressive 2.5 years as a nursing student I decided that I could do it with kids (2) and so I changed my major. So here I am finishing my first year as a pre-med and I have 3 semsters left after this semester. Here are my problems: 2.9 GPA and 2.7 science due to not enthusiastic or stellar nursing classes, I am very busy with working part time, volunteering 2 hours a weeks at the hospital, 3 kids, a working husband oh yeah and a full college load. I do shadowing a couple times a summer and I attend pre-med club meetings when I can. So am I wasting my time trying to do med school. My grades aren't good, I am very busy but not with the usual pre-med stuff, and I am a mom. Do they take people like me? I know what being a doctor is like because my mother in law is an M.D. Ad I know that this is what I REALLY want to do but I feel like I am not at all a competetive candidate. What do you think? I am trying to get the grades up but I am afraid I won't be able to get it to much higher. I am shooting for a 3.0.
Ellie
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Don't give up, Ellie. Now that you know what you want/need to do, demonstrate it with good grades. Consider all options (MD/DO). Yes, they take "people like you." You can even use your experiences in your essays to your advantage.
Good for you for sticking with your dream and working toward it under very difficult circumstances. :)
 

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Yes, you can do it. My undergrad was far less impressive and I didn't have three kids. However, you might want to take your time with things. You don't have to go right away and you might be penalizing yourself by taking the same courseload as people not pregnant, working, and caring for two kids. I know I felt very "cognitively impaired" while pregnant, not to mention just plain tired, and I didn't have nearly the load you do. Make it about the journey, not just the destination, and you'll do fine.
 

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where there's a will, there's a way... i learned that from a video. but it's true.
 

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Agreed w/ the poster re: don't rush it.

I finished well as an undergrad and still had a 2.6.

After enrolling in and finishing a non-thesis Master's program in three years while working full time (minus the kids) I was accepted.

The Master's was extremely easy (then again, I actually went to class).

My advice, based on what I was told by asst deans of admission, is get whatever degree you can as soon as you can. What I mean is just get a Bachelor's and finish as well as you can.

It's my understanding that your GPA is the single most important portion of your app. Then again, if you finish w/ a 3.0 and have a decent MCAT you might get into a DO program given your situation and volunteer/shadowing endeavors?!?

Then again, wouldn't you want to get your 3rd child out of diapers before you embark upon medical school?

I say just get out then do the Master's or other post-bac program. Even if you take 3 yrs to finish (like me) you'll be so much more competetive w/ the additional degree and accompanied better GPA.

You need to realize you can't expect to get in next year, but applying in 3 yrs or so seems realistic.

Don't give up...you're only 21 and would still be younger than many of us if you apply in 4-5 yrs!

Given your situation, you'll just need some planning and patience. I hope you do it!
 

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medmom said:
Here's the deal. I am a VERY nontraditional student. I am 21 and currently pregnant with my 3rd child. I had my first in high school so gave up the dream of med school and decided to do nursing. Well after an unimpressive 2.5 years as a nursing student I decided that I could do it with kids (2) and so I changed my major. So here I am finishing my first year as a pre-med and I have 3 semsters left after this semester. Here are my problems: 2.9 GPA and 2.7 science due to not enthusiastic or stellar nursing classes, I am very busy with working part time, volunteering 2 hours a weeks at the hospital, 3 kids, a working husband oh yeah and a full college load. I do shadowing a couple times a summer and I attend pre-med club meetings when I can. So am I wasting my time trying to do med school. My grades aren't good, I am very busy but not with the usual pre-med stuff, and I am a mom. Do they take people like me? I know what being a doctor is like because my mother in law is an M.D. Ad I know that this is what I REALLY want to do but I feel like I am not at all a competetive candidate. What do you think? I am trying to get the grades up but I am afraid I won't be able to get it to much higher. I am shooting for a 3.0.
Ellie
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You can do it! Don't ever give up. Like previous posters said, don't rush things and if you feel your grades are that bad, do a post bac program that way all the classes you take will go to your undergrad GPA as opposed to a masters program going to a graduate GPA.

Either way, good luck and I'm sure you'll do well.
 

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you can definitely get in to medical school if you keep trying. a word of caution though - once you're in, it is SO much more difficult than undergrad. now i know that goes without saying, but if you feel like you're not spending enough time with your children now, you will have to make bigger sacrifices in med school.. you have to ask yourself if medical school is worth all of the sacrifice. too many people (not necessarily you in particular) go in to medical school with very little idea of what they are signing up for.. be informed and choose what is best for you.

ps: if your undergrad gpa is low, you can always get a postbac to strengthen your gpa and then apply (or re-apply).. i know a LOT of people who went that route..
 

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U4iA said:
you can definitely get in to medical school if you keep trying. a word of caution though - once you're in, it is SO much more difficult than undergrad. now i know that goes without saying, but if you feel like you're not spending enough time with your children now, you will have to make bigger sacrifices in med school.. you have to ask yourself if medical school is worth all of the sacrifice. too many people (not necessarily you in particular) go in to medical school with very little idea of what they are signing up for.. be informed and choose what is best for you.

ps: if your undergrad gpa is low, you can always get a postbac to strengthen your gpa and then apply (or re-apply).. i know a LOT of people who went that route..
i completely agree. Medicine is a great profession, and only people like you, who think they belong there and are dedicated and passionate about it, should pursue it....but alot of sacrifices have to be made. Its not easy! As far as you getting in, I feel you stand a great chance. Keep working on your undergrad grades...and keep focused like you have , even with a family. ADCOMS are bound to see that dedication towards medicine. :)
 
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I fully understand the hard work and intensity. Like I said my MIL is a doctor and so I have a second hand account of what it is like. She also had my huband before she started. I don't feel overwhelmed and I know that I can handle it. it is just that initial getting in that I am worried about and that is mostly due to my low GPA. I plan on taking the MCAT in April 2006 and I am already starting to study for that and I am doing as much extra stuff as I can. I am just afraid it won't be enough. Oh and my third should be 2 if I get in on my first try. My husband has a flexible job and schedule and plans on being home with the kids and taking over the care part as much as possible.
Ellie
 

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medmom said:
I fully understand the hard work and intensity. Like I said my MIL is a doctor and so I have a second hand account of what it is like. She also had my huband before she started. I don't feel overwhelmed and I know that I can handle it. it is just that initial getting in that I am worried about and that is mostly due to my low GPA. I plan on taking the MCAT in April 2006 and I am already starting to study for that and I am doing as much extra stuff as I can. I am just afraid it won't be enough. Oh and my third should be 2 if I get in on my first try. My husband has a flexible job and schedule and plans on being home with the kids and taking over the care part as much as possible.
Ellie
if you're totally committed, which it sounds like you are, you can definitely get in. gettin in is a challenge but it's not that bad. it may take more than one try. just focus on the MCAT because a stellar MCAT score can make up for a mediocre GPA. if you want to greatly increase your chances of getting in, plan on doing a post-bac (you'll end up taking a bunch of science electives) and bringing the gpa up a little.. also, consider applying to osteopathic schools where the admissions criteria tend to be a little more forgiving and the culture is more welcoming of non-traditional applicants..

what state are you a resident of?
 
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I am from Colorado. I should also add to those that said to take it easy: That isn't an option. I have a full scholarship that requires that I take 15 hours at a time. Although I did talk them into letting me do 13 next semester due to the new baby :) And I fully plan on applying to all MD and DO programs that I would even consider.
Ellie
 

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Hmm, I dunno if this post is true or not. It just sounds a tad strange. 3 kids and your only 21? Did you start crapping out kids at 16? It seems like you turned your back on family planning.

Sorry to seem a bit harsh but having a full college load, working part time, and volunteering is a lot for a regular student with no kids or spouse. Now you have to balance that with three kids? I have a hard time believing that you can properly balance all those things without something suffering. In your case it seems your grades are what are taking the hit. The 2.9/2.7 GPA is low for medical school admissions for MD or DO. You need to get above the 3.0 range to make it past the initial screening processes. I'm sure you're smart enough since you are on a scholarship but I don't think it's humanly possible to balance studies and children. It's too much of an obstacle.

But if you do manage to get the GPA up, then you need solid MCAT scores. Echoing what other posters said, a post-bac or 1 year program after your undergrad years that is science heavy will show schools that you can handle the load and that your earlier GPA isn't indicative of your abilities overall.

But in the end, it's all about balance. And 3 kids is no small task, even for a stay at home mom it is an intense 24 hour job. I truly believe either you will not make it or else your kids will suffer in the process. But that's just one person's opinion. I'm sure it will be met with much vitriol from others, but I think it has to be said.
 
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Well thank you for your concern and your ignorance!!! As I matter of fact I had my first daughter at 17, the second was planed at 20 and yes this third one was a surprise. Once YOU hit the real world you will realize that even with excellent planning life doesn't allways go according to plan.
I am going to go ahead and take the comment about balancing all of those this plus three kids as a compliment although I doubt it was meant as one. It is a balancing act and one that I feel I do quite well thank you. If you had taken the time to read the above posts you would realize that I said that my unimpressive GPA was due to some C's in my first 2 years at college. Not to mention why would I "make up" what for me is a very real situation. Like with three kids I have nothing better to do than lurk on a pre-med board?
Once again, thank you again for your concern I hope that admissions committees will acknowledge my challenges to have been as great as you seem to think. I am sad to see such negativity on a board that is meant for support and encouragement.
Ellie ( a VERY real pre-med!)
P.S. my kids are 4, 1 and due in July :) 2 girls and hoping for a boy :p
 

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The answer to your question resides within you. Is it a waste of time? Nothing is a waste of time if is where your passion lies. It takes hard work dedication, and a ****load of soul searching to understand the reasons for becoming a doc...or it should. Let's put it this way, while wanting it isn't necessarily enough, the initial thought that you had whenever you did to become a doctor should tell you something. Hang in there, kid. And lots of respect for your situation and pursuing your dream. :thumbup:
 

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And another thing, forget what some other self-centered-why-try-and-help-if-you-obviuosly-have-no-clue posters have to say. They have been living in their "pseudo" real world where there major concerns amount to nothing more than "what shall I eat for breakfast?" You know how hard youve worked to get to where you are now, and some of us do also. Ignore negativity and those who question your desire, ambition or place in life. Stay strong and never stop moving forward, even if it is a few small steps at a time. :)
 

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my advice...apply broadly, and definitely apply DO where they don't look at numbers as much and welcome non-traditionals...and keep your options open. I know people older than you...people with more kids than you...people with lower GPA's than you, and people with really low MCATS who got in. What they had in common...passion for medicine, determination and a willingness to sacrafice...none of which are quantifiable with numbers and stats. Keep the dream alive.
 

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I would suggest, that from now on you plan on an extended course load. Grades are important and you are still very young despite your life experience, so rather than rushing through the process getting poor grades, and having to commit to a post-bac. program to get into med. school, save your money and do it right the first time! Take care of your babies, study, work if you need to, and plan to fulfill your goals in the great tradition of delayed gratification. Also, perhaps you might want to wait to have your next child until after you've finished medical school, you love your children granted, but birth e control given your age and ultimate carrier goals might be the best option.---But yes to add to the chorus you can definitely do it, just for gods sakes hold off on more children for a while!!!!
 

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Although you said you need to keep at least 15 credits per semester for your scholarship, I still think taking the MCAT in 2006 is rushing things a bit. Take a full course load, but don't cram too many science and labs into each semester. Balance the tough classes with some really easy ones that will help your GPA,

I had a 2.5 in undergrad sue to a serious chronic illness. I worked for a bit as a biomedical engineer and then was a stay-at-home Mom. I went back and did a 1 1/2 year post bacc with a 4.0 GPA and did well on my MCAT. My girls were 3 and 5 when I started. They are now 6 and 8. My son (BIG SURPRISE) was born 2 weeks into my M1 year. It can be done; just put a little time and some great grades between you and your low beginning gpa.

Good Luck!
 

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medmom said:
Well thank you for your concern and your ignorance!!! As I matter of fact I had my first daughter at 17, the second was planed at 20 and yes this third one was a surprise. Once YOU hit the real world you will realize that even with excellent planning life doesn't allways go according to plan.
Fair enough, but generally having 3 kids by the time you are 21 and then trying to get into medical school doesn't speak much for a person's common sense. Kids require a lot of care as you alrawedy know. Getting into medical school requires a decent amount of studying contrary to some of the posts on SDN. Generally you have to show competence and a desire. Just wishing to be a doctor isn't enough.

I may not have any kids but it is a bit condescending to think that just because you have a couple of mistakes you suddenly think you know a lot about life. Guess what, I didn't make your mistakes and because of that my life is a little easier. Sorry if I used a little common sense.

medmom said:
I am going to go ahead and take the comment about balancing all of those this plus three kids as a compliment although I doubt it was meant as one. It is a balancing act and one that I feel I do quite well thank you. If you had taken the time to read the above posts you would realize that I said that my unimpressive GPA was due to some C's in my first 2 years at college.
Hey balancing three kids and making sure they don't become screwed up while trying to achieve a successful career is a tough job and if you can do it then you deserve a lot of credit. I'm not being sarcastic or anything, but since there's only 24 hours in a day, I'm willing to bet either your career or kids are going to suffer in the process in some way. But that's just my opinion.


medmom said:
Not to mention why would I "make up" what for me is a very real situation. Like with three kids I have nothing better to do than lurk on a pre-med board?
Once again, thank you again for your concern I hope that admissions committees will acknowledge my challenges to have been as great as you seem to think. I am sad to see such negativity on a board that is meant for support and encouragement.
:p
Exactly, it's the internet. People make up crap all the time. How many rumors have been started because of the internet? Since there is no verification process your initial post seemed a bit out there. 21 with 3 kids and a premed.

Also, this board isn't that supportive. I take it you haven't read any of the stuff spewed on AA threads, international medical graduates, or the pissing matches about which medical school is the greatest.

But I do wish you luck. It's a tough process even for people with no responsibilities other then to themselves. You're gonna have a much harder road. But people have given some solid advice and you really do need to take it slower and realize that it is much better to apply with the best application possible even if it means delaying your application by a year. You're still extremely young and getting into medical school is definitely a possibility.
 

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Medmom, I'm also in Colorado, and I'm non-traditional, but in a different way. I have two children, I have a husband, I went to college first at 16 (didn't do well 'cuz I didn't know why I was there), dropped out, had a career. Went back to school and did quite well - 3.7 GPA this time around if you ignore the stuff 20 years ago (3.1 if you count it in). I will tell you that CU tends to reject first-time applicants because they can. Pick your schools carefully, apply early (my main mistake this time applying), and definitely look into DO schools. They seem to be more forgiving of the non-traditional student.

Realize that this isn't a smooth road. Med school admissions are a crap shoot. worth it? Hell yes. I'm trying again, and I'm going to do everything possible to get my apps complete EARLY.

Oh, and ignore those like "Hot hot heat". We all know that trolls tend to be found out rather quickly and dumped. You certainly don't sound like a troll to me. Good luck, and keep your chin up. There ARE people out there more like you than you think.
 

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You will need to show a significant upward trend in your coursework and do well on the MCAT. It is not beyond hope, but you probably have a fair amount of work ahead of you to be competitive.

How have your recent grades been, since starting pre-med?
 

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ShyRem said:
Oh, and ignore those like "Hot hot heat".
Medmom, while I agree that "hot hot heat" may have come on strong, I would not ignore what he said. Your children will VERY likely suffer if your medical career comes first.

Everyone is telling you that if you want this that much you can and should have it. But, even more importantly, your children should matter. They are worth far more than a career. I hope that you will put them first no matter what.

Also, do a serious reality check... numbers, unfortunately or not, matter A TON. there is a real chance that you will not pass a medical school screen with your grades--look at the volumes of sdn-ers who have been passed up with far more competitive stats.

All I can say is that I hope you will consider all aspects of this and that you will make your choices based on your most important commodity... your children. And have a backup plan should you decide to go for it, just in case!

I honestly wish you the best and hope that you make the right choice!
 

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a few comments:

-it's extremely admirable that you are pursuing this. Makes alot of us feel either like slackers, or inspired, or some combo of both.

-Hot Hot Heat's comments, while not completely off base, are pretty useful (if only to get used to the harshness). There are lots of people in medicine & en route to medicine that are WAY harsher, so the sooner you (and I) get used to it, the better. There are plenty of people in medicine that lack sympathy and cannot relate to circumstances that are much different than their's, as this may be the case...(they're called SURGEONS... Just kiddin'!).

-the road to medicine requires sacrafice. Many times when we make a decision to pursue one thing, we have to sacrafice other things. I sincerely hope that you always keep you three kids your absolute top priority, and that if you had to choose between them and medicine, they would always come first. Look around and it's not hard to see so many screwed up kids w/ parents that aren't dedicated enough to parenting.... Personally, I feel guilty when I don't spend enough time with my 2 (canine) kids... I can only imagine how challenging your path will be.

- You have many assets: your youth, your husband if he is supportive of your pursuit, and perhaps your MD mother-in-law!

Good Luck!
 

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medmom said:
Well thank you for your concern and your ignorance!!! As I matter of fact I had my first daughter at 17, the second was planed at 20 and yes this third one was a surprise. Once YOU hit the real world you will realize that even with excellent planning life doesn't allways go according to plan.
A healthy dose of reality is a good thing every now and then.

And no, this board is not just for support. You asked for advice and how your situation would be perceived. I think it's fair to bring in criticism of your actions that admissions committees will consider.

Certainly the above post could have been more polite in approach, but I think it's a fair question as to whether someone with 4 kids is going to be a liability in medical school, and I think you're going to have to prove that your poor grades were not due to your inability to manage your time.

Do well in your coursework now, and you'll answer a lot of questions.

You can do whatever attainable goal it is you set out to do with the proper motivation and the skills going into the endeavor. If you can become an MD and be a good parent with 4 kids and that is what you want, go for it.

There's nothing illegal or objectionable in that at all. Some might question whether you can manage all of that at once (myself included), and I think that's something you're going to have to address when it comes time to apply for medical school.

Prove otherwise, and you've overcome an obstacle. Don't, and I think it becomes a liability.
 

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Can you take a semester off? I mean, is there anyway to do this? My cousin in law decided to go the kids first then education route, which is different from my career first, then kids (I'm speaking chronologically)
 

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Were all your kids fathered by the same Dad?
 
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Yes all of my children have the same father whom is also my VERY supportive husband. And I am pregnant with my third (whom was not planned as I was planning on pursuing med school) not my fourth. We are not going to be having any more children (ie. vasectomy). And I fully realize what going to med school with kids will entail, at least as much as I can understand before doing it. I can't remember if I said earlier but my MD mother in law had my husband at 18 and my sister in law during fourth year. So she has given me alot of insight and tips to going to med school with kids (which she fully encourages me to pursue). My husband is very supportive and has also experienced med school through the kids point of view. I am just hoping that some admissions committees can view my managing family and school as a positive thing and not baggage. my grades now are fine not straight A's like I would like but no more C's either. I am looking into retaking some of the C's but also considering taking summer classes that could make up for the early C's.
 

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Hey medmom it looks as if we are in the same boat! I am 20 with two children and hope to get into medical school in two years. I had my first child at 17 and my second at 18. Both were not planned, but I think that I am still capable of going after my dream of being a physician.
I was just like you working part-time, as well as working in a lab at a doctor's office, but I realized that I would never be able to keep up my grades regardless of my determination. I quit the job in the lab and hope to get some research or volunteer hours during the summer. I cannot even imagine how it will be with three children! I really praise you for your strong will and I hope that every thing works out for you.
I think the first thing that you must do is try to lose some of your volunteer activities and concentrate on your school work. I think that medical schools will look highly on you for just going to school with three children! :)
 

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Medmom, I took a full courseload (21 credits) with my two children... and when I started my son was 3. I did a double major (chem and math) in three years. You make time.. I did my studying between classes and after my kids were in bed. I still managed to get to all of their school programs, take them to karate three times a week, and cook a homemade dinner every night. You make choices, you manage your time better. Ask them if they have suffered.... the answer would be a resounding NO. And the only time my grades suffered was when I got mono with a 19 credit courseload - I had to content myself with a C in Ochem II and Adv. Calc II (but I also got an A in Pchem). But I didn't withdraw from any classes nor did I ask for special accomodations.

For those of you who swear it can't be done - anything is possible if you want it badly enough. And a Mom can do ANYTHING (and often three things at once). Go ask your own mothers. :) :) :) You go Medmom. Just learn some selective deafness and blindness for those naysayers.

(BTW, what the H#LL kind of question is "do they all have the same father"?!? None of anyone else's business and doesn't change a thing about the questions posed.)
 

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hot hot heat said:
Fair enough, but generally having 3 kids by the time you are 21 and then trying to get into medical school doesn't speak much for a person's common sense. Kids require a lot of care as you alrawedy know. Getting into medical school requires a decent amount of studying contrary to some of the posts on SDN. Generally you have to show competence and a desire. Just wishing to be a doctor isn't enough.
Sorry medmom, but I have to agree with hot hot heat. There is the perfect life that we all want and there is the harsh reality.

If you can manage to get into a medical school, then that is great.
But if I was a admissions dean, I would not accept you because it seems like you do not have a common sense and you are not that responsible.

Don't get me wrong, many people get pregnant at that age, it is just that your actions show that you are not a doctor material.

If I was a patient, and knew about your personal life, I probably would not go to you.

But still, good luck
 

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I deleted my original reply as it looked harsh.

I am a physician, one year left until I finish residency.

Some facts: hours will be variable. Most med schools and residencies are VERY time intensive, much more so than anything you could imagine in undergrad. Med school MINIMUM time investment will be 40-50 hours/week for the first two years. Likely 60-80hrs/week if your school was like mine. Last two years of Med school will be 40-120hrs/week of time investment depending on the service you are on. Do not rely on the 80hr work week "rule" especially if you go to a DO school. You are a med student and will be abused.

Once in Internship, just plan on 80hrs/week MINIMUM. Yes you could have an easier internship, but you should not expect to land one.

Once in Residency, it is quite variable. If you choose a "lifestyle" residency, you could do 40-50hrs/week on average for 3-4 years. If you choose IM, surgery, etc, you chould be easily working 80-120hrs/week for 3-7 years. Again, don't cound on the 80 hour work week being enforced.

Once an attending, you could work 20hrs/week to 120hrs/week, its mostly up to you. Depends on your specialty and the job you land.

Listen, I am most concerned with your children's welfare. They need a Mom and they will rarely see you if you enter med school. The time commitment in med school and residency is often more than 80hrs per week.

However, if you feel you can commit 80hrs/week to med school/residency for the next 7-10 years and still give your kids the personal and financial support they deserve, go for it. Nothing is impossible.

It WILL require that you sacrifice something about the quality of your family, no way around it.

BTW, I'd say this if you were a father with the same ambitions.
 

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And, ligament, having said that, how many med school students do you know that had kids while in school or residency? Aren't there families where one or both parents work 60+ hours a week? The mothers on this board KNOW it'll be hard. We're mothers - just because we gave birth doesn't mean we delivered our brains - just our babies.

I'm disappointed in lots of you new posters here. Holier-than-thou's. Without Wax, I won't even dignify your post except to say I hope you've never had premarital sex. 'Cuz that's what gets folks pregnant.

If you all think 80-100 hours a week is a lot of time - try being an at-home Mom. The hours are longer, the pay less, the work never-ending, and how you get treated by others is deplorable. Oh, and did I mention lack of sleep? For those of you who keep saying it will require sacrifice - NO KIDDING. It would require sacrifice if you decide to have children after residency when you're in practice, too - you'll still be working 80+ hours a week.

Shame on you all. Go grow up and learn to be supportive.
 

hot hot heat

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ShyRem said:
Medmom, I took a full courseload (21 credits) with my two children... and when I started my son was 3. I did a double major (chem and math) in three years. You make time.. I did my studying between classes and after my kids were in bed. I still managed to get to all of their school programs, take them to karate three times a week, and cook a homemade dinner every night. You make choices, you manage your time better. Ask them if they have suffered.... the answer would be a resounding NO. And the only time my grades suffered was when I got mono with a 19 credit courseload - I had to content myself with a C in Ochem II and Adv. Calc II (but I also got an A in Pchem). But I didn't withdraw from any classes nor did I ask for special accomodations.

For those of you who swear it can't be done - anything is possible if you want it badly enough. And a Mom can do ANYTHING (and often three things at once). Go ask your own mothers. :) :) :) You go Medmom. Just learn some selective deafness and blindness for those naysayers.

(BTW, what the H#LL kind of question is "do they all have the same father"?!? None of anyone else's business and doesn't change a thing about the questions posed.)

Congratulations for being the first woman in history to do it all. But you are the exception to the rule, let's not forget that. Just because there are exceptions doesn't make the general rule any less true.

Medmoms current stats aren't that great right now and if she wants to be considered even remotely competitive she needs to spend some time and slow down and get good grades. I think her plans are too ambitious considering she has 3 kids and is married. That alone is going to limit where she aplpys to school.

Plus Ligament makes some good points about the demands on time that medical school requires. Getting into medical school is just the first battle. She then has to realize the insane amount of hours required for studying during the first 2 years and then beyond.

And also, posters have been saying being a stay at mom is tough. No one has argued against that in any post. But what we are saying is that balancing medical school and being a mom will be hard. It will not be the cakewalk that you are trying to make it out to be.

Frankly, I think this ra-ra you can do it attitude that a lot of people are showing is a bit misleading. Yeah theoretically she could get into medical school and be a great doctor. And theoretically I could try out for an NBA team and make a million dollars. Too bad I'm under 6 feet tall. But I really really really want to play in the NBA! But in reality that's not going to happen.

Besides, she knows what she has to do if she wants to get into medical school. Get good grades, good MCAT, and some extra curriculars. No magic formula really.
 

Ligament

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"If you all think 80-100 hours a week is a lot of time - try being an at-home Mom."

Are you saying being an at-home Mom is harder than being a physician on the job? Please clarify.
 

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There has been some good discussion (despite the offending parts) on this thread. I think that the question is not IF medmom can do it or not, but SHOULD she do it? Is it worth the stress it will put on her children (and please don't even try to say that there will not be stress. Children need their moms, no matter what some of you may say. And they don't need their moms to be overworked and stressed out, for, as has been implied, working in the home is stressful enough.

Medmom, you have already made the choice (either directly or not) to have three precious babies... to give them life and hope for a future. Why would you want to do something that would even remotely jeopardize that for them? (Yes, it is possible that they will not be affected by things... remotely possible... but is it worth the risk? How much of you will they get if you are in school and studying for many of your waking hours. How much of you will they get if you are up all night studying? These are just things to think about. You are a mom!!!! That is as awesome as it gets. You already have a noble calling. Make the most of it FIRST and then see if becoming an MD fits in somewhere... but don't do it the other way around. I am sure many of you will think I am foolishly oldfashioned for wanting to see the children put first but those children were a choice. What price is it worth to "have it all"?
 

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Since you are only 21, my advice would be to take the pre-med route slowly. Don't take a full courseload. My mom went back to school after my sister and I were born and it was very rough on her to do the mom thing, the wife thing, and the student thing. It's not like we weren't a supportive family (my sister and I were even older than your children are) it's just very difficult to balance everything. Not being a full time student would hopefully allow you to do better in your classes since you wouldn't be spreading yourself so thin. Then by the time you were ready to apply to med school, at least one of your kids would be in school. There are people on these boards starting the med school process much later in life, without children and stressing on when they're going to fit them in with a ticking biological clock. You've got that part out of the way, don't rush the school part.
 

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I think whether it's "doable" for Medmom is a question only she can answer. I never said it was easy - I KNOW it hasn't been easy (believe me). You make choices, you make decisions. You adopt a personal lifestyle that works for you. Would I recommend anyone else doing what I did the way I did it? Not unless it works for them. But she's already made the choice to try pre-med. Do you have to make it harder? You try to make mothers who go back to school feel like pariahs and failures. I hear a lot on this thread about how "children need their mothers". I absolutely agree, but with qualification: Children need happy mothers AND fathers. I assume (without loss of generalization whether you be male or female) that many of you would like to have children some day? Well, children need BOTH PARENTS.

For those of you who say she shouldn't do it just because she's got kids and medicine takes lots of time - take a good look in the mirror and speak to yourself. If you're one of the ones who say it's unfair to the children, take your own advice and resolve to never get married and never have children of your own. After all, we don't want to be hypocrites, do we?

And, Ligament, you don't know what hard is until you've been an at-home mom when all the children are throwing up, your husband/wife is throwing up, you're throwing up, there's no clean laundry, the house is a mess, there's puke on the carpet, and you still have to keep going and clean up after everybody. Or, even better, when your small children are feeling better and want soup and you're still sicker than a dog and can't stand up for more than 5 minutes at a time. Don't say your extended family would help - they may be 2000 miles away. The main difference here is that as an at-home parent you're ALWAYS on duty. Not just 80 hours a week. Worth it? Absolutely. Not saying it isn't. Hard? Absolutely.

CuriuoslyGeorge, I study after my kids go to bed and between classes. I have never gone to bed later than 11:30pm, and usually no later than 10:30pm. Everyone's study requirements are different - don't assume she'll be up all night studying. You'd be shocked at how much work I get done in between classes and while eating lunch. It's all about time management and organization.

Zapp, good post. I have found it easier once my kids got into school. Medmom is lucky - her college has an on-campus daycare/pre-school that is absolutely FABULOUS. So if need be, she can put her kids somewhere she can look in on them throughout the day, and even have lunch with them. It can be rough, but it can also be doable if you want it badly enough. However, I will add that as a non-traditional applicant, I was told by three allopathic schools that I am now "too old" to be a medical student. So from that perspective, you can't wait until you're 30 something to apply to med school without prejudice. Sad, but true. I have also heard of people being looked down on for not taking a full course load. Not meaning they had to take 21 credits, but I have heard of pre-med applicants being "marked down" for only taking 6 or 8 credits a semester for years on end. I constantly see on the med school websites that they want to see evidence that you can handle the rigors of the med school courseload: perhaps they would not understand 6 or 8 credits a semester? Your thoughts?
 

efex101

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I think that we are way off topic here and the OP has posted this question in at least two forums....many of the posters rude or not are trying to explain what may lie ahead but the point is useless when you are all wrapped up in the ohhhss and ahhhhs of being pre-med. The question of the OP is if she is competitive and I think that right now she is probably "less" competitive than others. Can she do it? sure but the GPA needs to be raised somewhat with recent hard core science classes and getting the best grades possible meaning A's. If you are already there and have tons of recent stuff with A's then you need to rock the MCAT which is easier said than done. After that you just apply to a LOT of schools and hope for the best. Also to those of you doing extremely well in undergrad do not "assume" that this will be the same for medical school. Most of my classmates and myself included had extremely good GPA always got A's blah blah blah well here comes reality you may study 100X more in medical school and still barely pass so beware. What happened in undergrad has NOTHING to do (for the most part) with what will happen in medical school. Always assume the worst! meaning assume that you will study every day for 4 hours or more and all weekend then see if you have time for your family like some of you guys are assuming. I also "assumed' and it bit me on the arse. I have two kids and thank God they are older for I barely have time...and thank God for a husband that does everything I used to do. So the bottom line think hard about this and do not go by what you think it is like go talk to a first year medical school class and see what they have to say. Or better yet go to mommd.com
 

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I agree with curiouslygeorge. Not to be too harsh, but youre a mom now and your children should be the main priority. If you really wanted to be a doctor, maybe you should have thought about that first before you spread your legs unprotected resulting in little 'uns, not once, not twice, but 3 times! They did not ask to be born, and they certainly aren't asking mommy to spend all her time away from them to fulfill her pipedream of becoming an MD!
 

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My ''jerk-dar'' is going off the scale here. Keep it civil, doctors...
 

Ligament

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"And, Ligament, you don't know what hard is until you've been an at-home mom when all the children are throwing up, your husband/wife is throwing up, you're throwing up, there's no clean laundry, the house is a mess, there's puke on the carpet, and you still have to keep going and clean up after everybody. Or, even better, when your small children are feeling better and want soup and you're still sicker than a dog and can't stand up for more than 5 minutes at a time. Don't say your extended family would help - they may be 2000 miles away. The main difference here is that as an at-home parent you're ALWAYS on duty. Not just 80 hours a week. Worth it? Absolutely. Not saying it isn't. Hard? Absolutely."

ShyRem this is for you, not MedMom,

You are a *pre-med* with no concept of what lies ahead of you in medicine. HARD is having people DIE under your care...!

Most nights on call or on the floors when I was an Intern, I would have LOVED to deal with something as EASY as everybody in the family throwing up in the comfort of my own home. And no clean laundry, big deal! Not being able to make soup? What?!

If you think your situation is tough, wait until you are an Intern or resident:

1. *You* are throwing up, have been for 15 hours on call. 102 fever. You are praying you can get to the ER for some IV fluids to get you through your shift.
2. You are responsible for the lives of 50-100 patients in the hospital (not your THREE kids)
3. They are coding (that means they are DYING) at the rate of one every other hour or si, and you are first response to run the code
4. At least 10% of them are throwing up, and most for medically significant reasons as opposed to the benign virus that your family had. I'm talking bowel obstruction, appendicitis, etc...
5. You are getting paged by the ER for a new admit every hour or so
6. One of the patients in the ICU is pulling out his IVs, throwing them at you, while attempting to beat the nurse to a pulp (while you are dealing with this, you just got paged for another code blue)
7. Another ICU patient has FLIES coming out of her mouth...just to confuse you more.
8. You are being paged every 5 minutes for 30 hours on call, you get NO sleep
9. In your case, you then get to go home for a few hours and do some parenting if you can stay awake.

Most doctors on SDN who have finished or are in their internships can attest this is a fairly common scene. Not every call is like this but it is common, and you should plan on having days like this.

I don't think being a stay at home PARENT is easy, but you know what, nobody will die. You are at home with people you love. You can always call 911 if a kid gets really sick. You can do the laundry and clean the house later. None of this applies as a doc on the job. No such luxuries. You need to know this if you are entering our profession.

Being a stay at home parent is a very very important job. Don't get me wrong. But you need to put things into perspective.

Ligament
 
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medmom

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efex101, thank you that is the info I was looking for whe I posted the question. I appreciate the honesty and the fact that you actually answered the question. I have also visited mommd.com so thank you.
scoot whatever, screw you!!!! I didn't spread my legs and have unprotected sex, thank you. I was on the pill and I got pregnant anyways. That was my first daughter and now I am married and I have no reason to explain my sexual relations beyond that point. I would really appreciate one of two things for the remainder of this thread: Either ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION, or shut up and move on. I am not asking for a review of my life or my parenting. in case anyone missed the point here is what I was asking:
Does having kids count as EC? and will I still be considered even if I am not a 4.0?
I do not want anymore advise on parenting, "spreading my legs" pr anything else to do with my choice of lifestyle. If that can't happen then just let the thread die!
 

uptoolate

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Medmom,

Please do not dignify Scootad.'s comments with any explanation. I was offended by it myself and would really like to see a moderator address such commentary appropriately.
 

efex101

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I am sorry to say but having children and taking care of a family is not considered an EC although adcoms will take into accout that you are extremely busy and are doing well in school etc. There are many non-trads that despite having a job, taking care of kids, still pull excellent grades and have time to volunteer, do research, and much more. I think that another thing that you could do is contact ALL schools that you will be applying to and present your case to the admissions director. See that they have to say because no matter what we say or think here they (adcoms) will be THE source for you. You would be surprised in how helpful they can be (and yes I did this so I am not blowing smoke ...) It is best to contact them when the current application season has slowed down and before the next season starts. I also think that if you read between the lines in some of these posts you *will* get some valuable advice. Meaning, medicine is NOTHING like we think it is when we are pre-med. I know that most of us volunteered and spoke with doctors but until you actually DO it well...you have no clue. This said, prepare for the absolute worse and if you still think that your family can sustain the hardship then go for it. By the worse I mean time wise and not been there much for your family. If your spouse is willing and able to take on the role that is usually delegated to mothers than you will more than likely have no problem. I do not think that any of us is trying to scare/intimidate/lie about this process but just bring some healthy reality check for those that are less inclined to think about these issues. It *is* nice to be thinking about the notion of becoming a physician but the reality is much less glamorous. Working 80 hours per week or more is no joke! and then having to study on top of that and read and keep up with the latest and greatest is even harder! can it be done for those with kids? absofreakinglotuely BUT your family *will* suffer this is a fact. Let us think when you are GONE for 80 hours and then come home you will be doggone tired and then you have to read/study/etc do you think that you will be at your best? heck no. So think about all this and then go from there.
 

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hot hot heat said:
Medmoms current stats aren't that great right now and if she wants to be considered even remotely competitive she needs to spend some time and slow down and get good grades. I think her plans are too ambitious considering she has 3 kids and is married. That alone is going to limit where she aplpys to school.

Plus Ligament makes some good points about the demands on time that medical school requires. Getting into medical school is just the first battle. She then has to realize the insane amount of hours required for studying during the first 2 years and then beyond.

And also, posters have been saying being a stay at mom is tough. No one has argued against that in any post. But what we are saying is that balancing medical school and being a mom will be hard. It will not be the cakewalk that you are trying to make it out to be.

.
I wonder if you would say these things to a man with 3 kids who was married to a woman who worked?
 

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scootad. said:
I agree with curiouslygeorge. Not to be too harsh, but youre a mom now and your children should be the main priority. If you really wanted to be a doctor, maybe you should have thought about that first before you spread your legs unprotected resulting in little 'uns, not once, not twice, but 3 times! They did not ask to be born, and they certainly aren't asking mommy to spend all her time away from them to fulfill her pipedream of becoming an MD!
Do you talk to men this way when they tell you they had children early in life and went on to have a career in medicine?
 

txguy

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As Winston Churchill said, "Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever give up!"

Stay patient and keep those grades up :luck:

-tx

medmom said:
Here's the deal. I am a VERY nontraditional student. I am 21 and currently pregnant with my 3rd child. I had my first in high school so gave up the dream of med school and decided to do nursing. Well after an unimpressive 2.5 years as a nursing student I decided that I could do it with kids (2) and so I changed my major. So here I am finishing my first year as a pre-med and I have 3 semsters left after this semester. Here are my problems: 2.9 GPA and 2.7 science due to not enthusiastic or stellar nursing classes, I am very busy with working part time, volunteering 2 hours a weeks at the hospital, 3 kids, a working husband oh yeah and a full college load. I do shadowing a couple times a summer and I attend pre-med club meetings when I can. So am I wasting my time trying to do med school. My grades aren't good, I am very busy but not with the usual pre-med stuff, and I am a mom. Do they take people like me? I know what being a doctor is like because my mother in law is an M.D. Ad I know that this is what I REALLY want to do but I feel like I am not at all a competetive candidate. What do you think? I am trying to get the grades up but I am afraid I won't be able to get it to much higher. I am shooting for a 3.0.
Ellie
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medmom said:
efex101, thank you that is the info I was looking for whe I posted the question. I appreciate the honesty and the fact that you actually answered the question. I have also visited mommd.com so thank you.
scoot whatever, screw you!!!! I didn't spread my legs and have unprotected sex, thank you. I was on the pill and I got pregnant anyways. That was my first daughter and now I am married and I have no reason to explain my sexual relations beyond that point. I would really appreciate one of two things for the remainder of this thread: Either ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION, or shut up and move on. I am not asking for a review of my life or my parenting. in case anyone missed the point here is what I was asking:
Does having kids count as EC? and will I still be considered even if I am not a 4.0?
I do not want anymore advise on parenting, "spreading my legs" pr anything else to do with my choice of lifestyle. If that can't happen then just let the thread die!

I wasnt really moved to participate in this thread, until I got to about this point in reading it. This goes for you, medmom, and also for a bunch of other posters along these same lines. What is the point? You are asking a bunch of people you dont know for information they, by definition, don't have! Its not like you are asking if you are competitive, you are asking if a bunch of pre-meds (most of whom arent accepted but even those who are arent on adcoms) if THEY think you are competitive? I wouldnt have really gotten upset, but you put your sob story out there for obvious reasons, and while I certainly dont think any less of someone who decides to have kids young, old or in between, I dont think that entitles you to be above reproach. You ask for opinions, on THIS BOARD of all places, and then get all indignant when someone says you should hang it up. If you arent going to listen to those people, what makes the people who tell you "Keep trying, you can do it!" any more qualified? And, in hindsight, what is even the point of my post? You arent gonna listen to me either. Ugh, why dont all threads start with "Tell me what I already know and only what I want to hear please!"


P.S. Havent slept all weekend and just bombed my Micro test
 

sunny123

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Well said vhawk.






Sorry to hear about your micro test.