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Get the thought out your mind that your’e wasting your potential. A neurosurgeon is no better than a primary care doctor. We’re all intelligent.
As far as debt goes, well yes I think that’s something that people should consider. Debt certainly does affect life choices such as retirement savings, where to live, if/when to have kids, etc.
With that said if being a pediatrician is the only specialty you enjoy then that’s what you should do.
I’m in a "low paying" specialty in a high cost of living location but I absolutely love what I do and wouldn’t change anything. Sure it’d be nice if I didn’t have to pay so much in loans every month, but at this point I just look at it like a necessary bill like my mortgage.
Potential as a human or earning potential?Hey all, sometimes I feel like I'm "wasting" my potential and usually I wouldn't care but my debt burden sure does make me feel that way.
I've been interested in peds from the get-go (specifically heme/onc peds). However, by graduation I'll be 600k in debt. I go to a low-rank school, but am currently ranked #1 or close to it (we don't know our exact rankings but I've gotten a 100 on every pre-clin exam but one), and I killed Step 1 (265+), have decent research, work, leadership, etc.
My classmates more than likely think I'm a decent/above average student, and encourage my pediatric path but they are unaware of my debt burden and how competitive my profile actually is. Have any of you made different choices with your debt burden if you had the opportunity?
I was also pretty 50/50 between IM and Peds - would a Med/Peds path possibly help alleviate some of this debt burden (could work as a hospitalist and pay this bad boy down, for example). I also really do love the idea of the "complete" education a Med/Peds residency gives you.
Yes you can earn more elsewhereEarning potential. I'm an older student so the amount of debt to income via peds, to me, makes it feel like I may not get to enjoy life / start a family / etc.
Thanks guys!
I think a lot of it just seeing my classmates, many who came from $$$ backgrounds live in their dope apartments, travel the world on breaks, etc., and I've never gotten to do that - never left my state, live far away from campus in a ****ty apartment, etc. I guess I was starting to get nervous that that would continue as a physician, but I just gotta understand even with that debt and a peds salary, I'll still be living 1000x better haha.
And yeah I still have some rotations to get through, the only thing I've truly excluded is surgery and what I absolutely need is longitudinal care and inpatient.
Thanks again <3
Not married, long-term partner is a zoologist (so not big $$) but hey her Twitch is starting to take off lmao.
We're both against having kids, which is at least helpful. I still have a year or so to make these decisions - what specialties should I be on the lookout for if I really enjoy Peds and to an extent behind peds, IM?
Not married, long-term partner is a zoologist (so not big $$) but hey her Twitch is starting to take off lmao.
We're both against having kids, which is at least helpful. I still have a year or so to make these decisions - what specialties should I be on the lookout for if I really enjoy Peds and to an extent behind peds, IM?
Sadly, even with a 265+ and top of the class, I don't think top-tier pediatric residencies care that much (if that's what you're aiming for). All they see is *low-tier medical school*. So add that to your equation as well.
Radiology should be your 'calling' with that debt burden...
Why not ENT? A ton of their patient panel is peds. (Of course that probably depends on where you are) but in my rotation there were a ton of peds patientsFor sure. We've had people match into places like CHOP each year so I'm not /too/ worried but it is certainly taken into consideration.
Can't be more stressful than IM, and most surgical specialtiesI feel like rads is more stressful and demanding than what us non-rads usually think
What contributes to burnout in Radiology?
Genuinely curious - what are the big factors that contribute to Radiology burnout? Is it mostly because of high volume or are there other factors I don't understand as a non-radiologist? Thanks in advance.forums.studentdoctor.net
"What I think non-radiologists don't understand about radiology is intensity-level that we perform at consistently (on-call). It's not uncommon to have a call shift where, other than getting up to pee and maybe answering phones calls, we're reading a huge stack of acute cases. 80-100 acute cross sectional cases where the radiologist's input directly drives patient care. Baseline that's like a 7-8 out of 10 on the stress scale.
I remember clinical medicine calls; in my opinion, people wildly underestimate just how much time they spend doing low-intensity activities: calling consults, walking to see a patient, putting in orders, writing notes, waiting for a trauma patient to arrive, doing the closure on a surgery, etc.... I would liken radiology to doing the most intensive part of a surgery, some sort of delicate anastamosis, for 8-10 straight hours. Or running 8 codes in 8 hours. That's gonna be mentally fatiguing.
Ever escalating volumes and responsibility despite stagnant pay (though in the grand scheme of things it is still good pay). By responsibility I mean the fact that the ability for diagnoses to be made or excluded primarily on imaging (and a bit of history) has grown exponentially because of improved technology, availability of technology, and/or an improved understanding of how to interpret imaging by radiologists.
I am at a high-end academic medical center, and our IR residents and fellows compare their IR call to their general radiology call. IR call is busy without too much time downtime since there are few fellows covering a large health system; despite this, they almost always consider IR call a bit of a break when compared to general diagnostic radiology call. Some of the IR residents/fellows partake in ICU/SICU rotations, and DR work to them is relatively more intense, especially on a per unit of time metric.
My co-residents all felt more mentally tired working 50-60 hours a week in radiology compared to internal medicine or surgery intern year where many of us routinely worked 70-80+ hours/week. The closest analogy is focused non-stop driving for 10-12 hours, but this not an apt comparison since diagnostic radiology requires even more mental focus/intensity, or else miss rates go up.
Medicine is not easy and every specialty is important for good patient care, however radiology is probably the most misunderstood specialty. When I tell people I am in radiology, many times I get responses suggesting that the work/workload is easy. This assumption, in part, leads to unrealistic expectations from our more clinical colleagues."
Careful, your privilege is showing.$600,000 in debt, how?
With the accumulation of interest over another three years, you're going to be about $725,00 in debt at the end of a peds residency. If you pursue pediatrics with that debt load you will need to take the highest paying job you can get in a low cost of living city. Pediatric salaries vary widely from state to state. Forget about living on the coasts and forget about serving the poor. You and your partner will have to live like school teachers for a decade.Thanks guys!
I think a lot of it just seeing my classmates, many who came from $$$ backgrounds live in their dope apartments, travel the world on breaks, etc., and I've never gotten to do that - never left my state, live far away from campus in a ****ty apartment, etc. I guess I was starting to get nervous that that would continue as a physician, but I just gotta understand even with that debt and a peds salary, I'll still be living 1000x better haha.
And yeah I still have some rotations to get through, the only thing I've truly excluded is surgery and what I absolutely need is longitudinal care and inpatient.
Thanks again <3
Can't be more stressful than IM, and most surgical specialties
Yeah, it's funny, everyone's general advice is "pick what you want", then you hear attendings hate on other specialties... I think the newer generation cares less about that, though.
Hey all, sometimes I feel like I'm "wasting" my potential and usually I wouldn't care but my debt burden sure does make me feel that way.
I've been interested in peds from the get-go (specifically heme/onc peds). However, by graduation I'll be 600k in debt. I go to a low-rank school, but am currently ranked #1 or close to it (we don't know our exact rankings but I've gotten a 100 on every pre-clin exam but one), and I killed Step 1 (265+), have decent research, work, leadership, etc.
My classmates more than likely think I'm a decent/above average student, and encourage my pediatric path but they are unaware of my debt burden and how competitive my profile actually is. Have any of you made different choices with your debt burden if you had the opportunity?
I was also pretty 50/50 between IM and Peds - would a Med/Peds path possibly help alleviate some of this debt burden (could work as a hospitalist and pay this bad boy down, for example). I also really do love the idea of the "complete" education a Med/Peds residency gives you.
wait how do u have 600kin debt?
Undergrad + Grad + private MD school
Was a high MCAT / low uGPA applicant with only 1A when after applying so had no choice med school wise. Family was in a precarious position during my undergrad/grad years, and so a lot of my extra income went to them rather than to paying down loans outside of interest.
Couldnt agree more. My wife wants to retire, but with covid, no traveling, limited dining, etc, she figures if she is going to be miserable, might as well be at work.I feel like rads is more stressful and demanding than what us non-rads usually think
What contributes to burnout in Radiology?
Genuinely curious - what are the big factors that contribute to Radiology burnout? Is it mostly because of high volume or are there other factors I don't understand as a non-radiologist? Thanks in advance.forums.studentdoctor.net
"What I think non-radiologists don't understand about radiology is intensity-level that we perform at consistently (on-call). It's not uncommon to have a call shift where, other than getting up to pee and maybe answering phones calls, we're reading a huge stack of acute cases. 80-100 acute cross sectional cases where the radiologist's input directly drives patient care. Baseline that's like a 7-8 out of 10 on the stress scale.
I remember clinical medicine calls; in my opinion, people wildly underestimate just how much time they spend doing low-intensity activities: calling consults, walking to see a patient, putting in orders, writing notes, waiting for a trauma patient to arrive, doing the closure on a surgery, etc.... I would liken radiology to doing the most intensive part of a surgery, some sort of delicate anastamosis, for 8-10 straight hours. Or running 8 codes in 8 hours. That's gonna be mentally fatiguing.
Ever escalating volumes and responsibility despite stagnant pay (though in the grand scheme of things it is still good pay). By responsibility I mean the fact that the ability for diagnoses to be made or excluded primarily on imaging (and a bit of history) has grown exponentially because of improved technology, availability of technology, and/or an improved understanding of how to interpret imaging by radiologists.
I am at a high-end academic medical center, and our IR residents and fellows compare their IR call to their general radiology call. IR call is busy without too much time downtime since there are few fellows covering a large health system; despite this, they almost always consider IR call a bit of a break when compared to general diagnostic radiology call. Some of the IR residents/fellows partake in ICU/SICU rotations, and DR work to them is relatively more intense, especially on a per unit of time metric.
My co-residents all felt more mentally tired working 50-60 hours a week in radiology compared to internal medicine or surgery intern year where many of us routinely worked 70-80+ hours/week. The closest analogy is focused non-stop driving for 10-12 hours, but this not an apt comparison since diagnostic radiology requires even more mental focus/intensity, or else miss rates go up.
Medicine is not easy and every specialty is important for good patient care, however radiology is probably the most misunderstood specialty. When I tell people I am in radiology, many times I get responses suggesting that the work/workload is easy. This assumption, in part, leads to unrealistic expectations from our more clinical colleagues."
If you really are 50:50 IM vs. peds, I'd choose IM hands down. IM makes more and has more options. Most of the MedPeds people I know practice only adult medicine (granted I probably have a biased view as I work with adult hospitalist).
Peds is going to feel like a drag in 10 years just like any other specialty will. Why not do something that pays 2-3x as much (which you easily can with your scores) so that you can cut your hours back and not feel like you're going to slave away into your 70s just to pay off your debt? You could cut back to like 70% of the peds hours in something like ENT and make like twice as much and use that extra free time enjoying life outside of work. Unless your insanely passionate about peds which it doesn't seem you are.
Careful, your privilege is showing.
OP: I know you mentioned you don’t like surgery. Just anecdotal, the peds cardiac surgeon at my hospital makes over $600k a year.